Hopefully you'll drive so many people away from the CAGcast that CheapyD and Shipwreck will finally decide to do without you once and for all.
Added value of Wombat in any CAGcast? Zilch.
CAGcast #365: Heterodachi Life
- Thread starter CheapyD
- Start date
Added value of Wombat in any CAGcast? Zilch.
Ok, if slur means to speak of somebody in an insulting or demeaning way I would think the post above counts. Also, on the podcast, you stated, "Japan is backwards and they're stupid and they're wrong." Sounds insulting and demeaning, do you disagree?
Ehker
CAGiversary!
Remind me never to do a podcast, I don't know if I could take the feedback.
I wasn't going to post, but reading some ridiculous stuff here, Wombat, Cheapy, Ship are awesome and I thought it was a great episode. Really enjoyed all discussions, and it was entertaining and interesting as always.
I wasn't going to post, but reading some ridiculous stuff here, Wombat, Cheapy, Ship are awesome and I thought it was a great episode. Really enjoyed all discussions, and it was entertaining and interesting as always.
Last edited by a moderator:
That post was sarcastic and I hope you know that. And I would call my Japan dig more insult less slur. It was also generalization to highlight my point about the general conservative attitudes in Japan.
Daws001
CAGiversary!
I had pretty much the same response when listening to this episode. Shipwreck's comments just struck me as insensitive.
Thanks, Wombat
It would only be the end of the species if every member of the species was homosexual. That is not the case in humans or in any of the other species where homosexuality occurs. It's perfectly normal for some proportion of a species not to be involved in procreation.
You disagree only because you are a bigot.
So, if I understand this correctly all people of a faith that believe that homosexuality is immoral are all bigots? And if so, aren't the people that can't tolerate the religious beliefs of others bigots by calling them bigots? Or, is the term bigot respectful?
For definition bigotry is intolerance toward those that hold different opinions from oneself.
Intolerance is unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs.
I would say that Wombat is intolerant of Japanese culture and therefore a bigot based on his comments on the podcast.
If you owned a basketball team, would this not be a huge fiasco?
Also, I like how your quoted post also shows your intolerance toward conservatives (see above for definition of intolerance). Thus, another bigoted view for Wombat.
If you want people to be tolerant, you would do well to be tolerant (the gist of the original post I made in this thread).
And while I am at it, why don't you also apologize to Shipwreck for asking about a divisive topic while on the air. You lack manners and I wish I was not the only person who was posting to tell you this.
Wombat, now I will ask you a few similar questions and you can feel free to answer them if you wish. In fact, I would actually prefer that the entire podcast crew discussed this particular topic on the air. I am sure that it is no way ill advised (sarcasm). I picked an appropriate topic since it is Mother's Day.
What do you think about 3rd trimester abortions where the child is viable and it essentially vacuumed out of the mother's womb? Have you watched a video of this procedure and seen the child recoil from the instrument used to kill it? I would recommend that you do so if you can find one - it is eye opening. Do you know that partial birth abortions also occur and that if the child does survive and the doctor ends the life after it is out of the mother it is murder? Does life begin when a person exits the mother's womb? Do you think that all abortions should be legal including the ones that I described? Please answer this as this would have been the type of question that Shipwreck should have asked you instead of giving you an actual answer. Would you appreciate Shipwreck asking you a question like these on the air?
Alas, I don't actually think I can change your mind.
For definition bigotry is intolerance toward those that hold different opinions from oneself.
Intolerance is unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs.
Is your post above tolerant or bigoted?
I would say that Wombat is intolerant of Japanese culture and therefore a bigot based on his comments on the podcast.
Why would you not call it a slur when it so clearly fits the definition? Is the comment not insulting or demeaning? Or do you just know in hindsight that your comment was offensive and was a racial/cultural slur and when called on it you really did not mean it? Do you actually not see Japanese culture as "backwards" and think "they're stupid and they're wrong"? If so, then it is a slur, if not then I guess you need to explain what you actually meant. You see, you can't have it both ways. You have to either mean it and have slurred the Japanese people and have bigoted attitudes, or not slurred them and mean something else that is not insulting or demeaning. Even Cheapy seemed taken aback by the statement during the podcast. Why not just admit fault and apologize?
If you owned a basketball team, would this not be a huge fiasco?
Also, I like how your quoted post also shows your intolerance toward conservatives (see above for definition of intolerance). Thus, another bigoted view for Wombat.
If you want people to be tolerant, you would do well to be tolerant (the gist of the original post I made in this thread).
And while I am at it, why don't you also apologize to Shipwreck for asking about a divisive topic while on the air. You lack manners and I wish I was not the only person who was posting to tell you this.
Wombat, now I will ask you a few similar questions and you can feel free to answer them if you wish. In fact, I would actually prefer that the entire podcast crew discussed this particular topic on the air. I am sure that it is no way ill advised (sarcasm). I picked an appropriate topic since it is Mother's Day.
What do you think about 3rd trimester abortions where the child is viable and it essentially vacuumed out of the mother's womb? Have you watched a video of this procedure and seen the child recoil from the instrument used to kill it? I would recommend that you do so if you can find one - it is eye opening. Do you know that partial birth abortions also occur and that if the child does survive and the doctor ends the life after it is out of the mother it is murder? Does life begin when a person exits the mother's womb? Do you think that all abortions should be legal including the ones that I described? Please answer this as this would have been the type of question that Shipwreck should have asked you instead of giving you an actual answer. Would you appreciate Shipwreck asking you a question like these on the air?
Alas, I don't actually think I can change your mind.
Last edited by a moderator:
All I can do is agree to disagree with you on everything and ask you nicely to please stop.
Kazaganthi
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 17 (100%)
I see that stupid 3DS game ruined the show feedback thread too. First time I ever fast forwarded a CAG episode.
I didn't think Cheapy was rude to Elliot at all. In fact, my thoughts were actually "Wow, Cheapy is going along with this?" as he asked Elliot some questions.
Know your E3 vendors was awesome, can't wait to hear more ridiculous E3 vendors. More fun as long as no one researches. Love the categories Shipwreck came up with.
I didn't think Cheapy was rude to Elliot at all. In fact, my thoughts were actually "Wow, Cheapy is going along with this?" as he asked Elliot some questions.
Know your E3 vendors was awesome, can't wait to hear more ridiculous E3 vendors. More fun as long as no one researches. Love the categories Shipwreck came up with.
RiceQuakes
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 4 (100%)
I wish people would just lay off Tomodachi Life. Never saw anyone whining about Harvest Moon.
FriskyTanuki
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 36 (100%)
I get the impression that you guys would rather Harmonix not have even bothered to revive the Amplitude IP since you're fundamentally opposed to crowd sourcing games that wouldn't otherwise get made. Harmonix has said that they're willing to invest $1 million into the game if it succeeds, but that doesn't seem to be likely at this point. I've gotten the impression that Sony is less willing to fund feel good failures these days, especially revivals of two games that sold to a very tiny, but dedicated audience in a genre that has returned to being as niche as it was back then. Sony knows how well those two games sold back then and Harmonix knows how well their Rock Band-branded clone did, which says a lot that both parties decided to put the fate of the game directly in the hands of the audience that has been demanding a new game for years now.
Just-Joe
CAGiversary!
I don't think anyone in Japan whined about it nor saw it as an issue it sold rather well. I suppose LGBTs have bigger things to worry about, like trying to be able to get married in real life.
Last edited by a moderator:
RiceQuakes
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 4 (100%)
I didn't mean people in Japan. I mean everyone on the internet. For the past 2 weeks, I see at least one article about it a day. xD
Last edited by a moderator:
actripxl
CAGiversary!
I disagree because I have a brain and use it, unlike you and Wombat that can't tell the difference between something that is "normal" in a cultural aspect (as it should) and "normal" from a scientific one because of PC brainwashing.
Evolution says every species should procreate, that is a basic fundamental of EVOLUTION. If something does not procreate which homosexuals do not then they do not fit what is "normal" scientifically as once again procreation is the KEY cornerstone. That we accept it normal culturally is a different matter but it doesn't change the fact it is not "normal" no matter how much PCtards who lack the ability to separate scientific fact with trying to not offend anyone.
For the record I have a Bachelors in Biology, Doctorate in Dentistry and still keep up with things coming out so I know what I'm talking about from a Physiological and Biological stand point. This "confusion" stems from PC liberals "infecting" areas like Psychology (which views change all the time) and state them as fact. When a book has in its preface stating "We should be sensitive towards others....." which is in a Psychology book I borrowed and returned after reading that paragraph, then it is no longer about looking for the truth (science) but pandering to the political views of that writer.
Wombat states that homosexuality is normal and isn't open for debate, this coming from an man who probably hasn't read a 1/4th of what I have on the matter from medical books and then calls people bigots for a difference of opinion (even though I'm stating scientific facts).
Definition of ignorant:
ig·no·rant [ig-ner-uh
adjective
1.
lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.
lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject orfact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.
uninformed; unaware.
4.
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorantstatement.
Once again I'm not saying homosexuals shouldn't be accepted, heck I'm all for them being able to marry but let Polygamist marry as many as they want as well. Like I said I'm not a conservative nor a liberal (right in the middle because both sides are filled with morons), but I just brought up the double standards of calling one group out and then saying that calling out a different group is unacceptable.
I'm not trying to disrespect anyone but I will go to town on someone who makes claims with nothing backing up their stance while I'm stating things written in medical books that have been proven to be fact. Science should ALWAYS be about looking for the truth and stating that truth, feelings of people be damned. Finding the truth should trump everything else because if not we get set back by people with agendas to benefit their own needs.
Last edited by a moderator:
actripxl
CAGiversary!
I believe I was the one that started everything, overall I did like the podcast but what got me started was Wombat when called the Japanese stupid but in the past would have a fit if anyone said anything bad about homosexuals even if it was in a joke. That is a total double standard, just look at the mess with the Clippers owner yet no one has batted an eye with Michael Jordan saying he "hated" white people. This is why I brought it up, Liberals do this all the time by doing the very thing they complain about and then try to reason it (again, this is something they bitch about Conservatives) because they believe their point of view is better than the other person's.
Last edited by a moderator:
Where are the scientific studies stating that some members of a species being homosexual is abnormal?
actripxl
CAGiversary!
If you need a scientific study to tell you that other than the basic concept of evolution as proposed by Darwin (who must be rolling over in his grave with that question), I weep for your future.
As I said before, to continue this IM me as this is for talk about games. On that note, I can't wait for E3 and to hear the guys impressions on the announcements.
Last edited by a moderator:
cityside75
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 2 (100%)
Without delving into the politics/morality of the issues, I have to strongly agree with those saying that Wombat should REALLY stop making these conversations personal, especially in regards to Shipwreck. I was really taken aback a few weeks ago when Wombat (in a mocking tone no less) chose to divulge Ship's "sexual history." I had the same feeling this week when he put Ship on the spot by trying to pin him down personally on his views on gay marriage. I think Wombat's made it clear in this thread that he has no tolerance for an opinion other than his own, so what was he prepared to do had Ship expressed a contrary opinion?
My uninformed opinion (with 365 episodes of the CAGCast under my belt) is that Wombat is insecure about being the butt of many jokes from Cheapy and Ship, and this is his way of "getting back" at Ship by trying to make him look silly and non-PC. But please know that you're playing with fire and like so many other good things in life, a great show like this can be destroyed by overheated political arguments, especially when you are so quick to make them so personal. You could turn off big segments of your audience or end up with axes to grind against each other. So my request, similar to yours above is "Please Stop!"
I love the show and love all you guys, and don't want to see issues like this kill the CAGCast or change what makes it so great.
My uninformed opinion (with 365 episodes of the CAGCast under my belt) is that Wombat is insecure about being the butt of many jokes from Cheapy and Ship, and this is his way of "getting back" at Ship by trying to make him look silly and non-PC. But please know that you're playing with fire and like so many other good things in life, a great show like this can be destroyed by overheated political arguments, especially when you are so quick to make them so personal. You could turn off big segments of your audience or end up with axes to grind against each other. So my request, similar to yours above is "Please Stop!"
I love the show and love all you guys, and don't want to see issues like this kill the CAGCast or change what makes it so great.
Last edited by a moderator:
dubbfoolio
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 1 (100%)
It's just nice to know even Shipwreck can be wrong, and wombat can be right sometimes. I know guys... I'm scared too.
Last edited by a moderator:
RiceQuakes
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 4 (100%)
They should just stick to games. Not the politics, religion, etc involved in the games. This isn't CNN. LOL
harrymcback
CAGiversary!
Hearthstone is ruining the CAGcast. All CheapyD does and thinks about is Hearthstone, we haven't had any mention head injuries, Tokyo American Club (TAC), bad parenting, body fluids, Deadpool reviews on the front page, or CheapD/MrsCheapy needing a job. Especially surprised at the last one since GiantBomb is hiring a new team member and it would seem to be a good fit for CheapyD.
harrymcback
CAGiversary!
JazzFlight
CAGiversary!
Bingo.
Anyhow, just throwing my support for Wombat in here just so he doesn't think he's a crazy person after reading the comments in the feedback thread so far.
BTW, The Sims had same-sex relationships as an option since the original game in 2000. No one really throws a stink over that series at all.
Right now, Patrick Klepek of Giantbomb is suggesting that MS should abandon the camera stuff for Kinect and keep the voice support, maybe with a cheaper device.
Which is what the Cheap Asses suggested months ago.
BatShip Industries should build upon this and create a proper consulting agreement with MS.
Which is what the Cheap Asses suggested months ago.
BatShip Industries should build upon this and create a proper consulting agreement with MS.
whiptcracker
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 1 (100%)
Personally, I took Shipwreck's comments as less about defending hypothetical bigots and more just confusion about the level of outrage a goofy Japanese game inspired and was trying to see things from alternate perspectives. Of course if you are upset about the lack of inclusion of same sex couples in the game being told to just get over it is probably going to make people upset. Much like Nintendo's initial response about the complaints I think it just was said poorly.
I do think the demands for the code of a 5 year old game that's being localized to be altered because of the cultural differences is a little much. I understand the anger and why people might choose to not buy it, but realistically they're not going to do that because doing so wouldn't be technically or financially a viable option. There are many Japanese games that have been localized with some things that would be considered questionable culturally in our country, and vice versa, and I'd rather have the option of buying them or not than never having the chance to play them.
Because of how deeply personal this conversation is to some people it's hard to have it without offending someone, like Cheapy's comment about animals. Anyone who has listened to anti-LGBT zealots long enough has heard them equate homosexuality to beastiality at some point, but it seemed obvious to me that Cheapy wasn't trying to equate same sex marriage to people getting married to animals as much as he was just trying to say that if you make the game wildly over the top it'll be hard to offend anyone.
Some poor language might've been used for a sensitive topic but I didn't think any of them were defending bigotry. It just seemed like there was confusion over the how heated the response became over a game that I'm guessing few had heard of prior. I would've been more interested in hearing them discuss potential solutions to how Nintendo handled the PR side of things instead of uninformed guesses about how it might be fixed or why people should/shouldn't be offended. When Cheapy brought up animals and Shipwreck was saying that people needed to get over it I groaned. At that point I wanted Wombat's son to come on and say that Iron Man should be in the game, because at least that would've been something people would agree on. The game would be better with Iron Man.
Regarding Tomodachi Life, Shipwreck's comment was the best. Either buy and enjoy the game or don't. If there's something in it you don't like then don't buy it, Nintendo isn't obligated to add or remove anything. The gaming community has discovered a crazy sense of entitlement over the past few years.
Not to mention if people can be upset about gay marriage not being in the game, can I complain if I don't believe in marriage and demand it be removed from the game? Or complain about marriage being depicted in a Christian way if I'm not Christian?
And Wombat's Japan comments...Wow. Everyone in Japan thinks and acts the same way. Got it.
Not to mention if people can be upset about gay marriage not being in the game, can I complain if I don't believe in marriage and demand it be removed from the game? Or complain about marriage being depicted in a Christian way if I'm not Christian?
And Wombat's Japan comments...Wow. Everyone in Japan thinks and acts the same way. Got it.
The context of my statement, which I will admit came out harsher than I intended, was regarding female equality in Japan. I do apologize for not being clearer but I stand by basic sentiment. Next time I will be sure to say "some" or "many" as to imply everyone thinks the same way.
And what about this statement? Did it come out harsher than intended, or is it another example of your prime sense of humor?
Last edited by a moderator:
whiptcracker
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 1 (100%)
You'd think the French would have tougher skin by now.
Why wouldn't you be able to complain about those things? There's nothing wrong with seeing a game and express that it'd be nice if the game would include options that you would like versus things you might not.
Last edited by a moderator:
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
While I agree the Wambot is ignorant and closed minded, you are being short sited on this point. Homosexuality, occurs in many animal species beside humans there is actually a recorded case of homosexual necrophilia by a duck.
There are many behaviors which would seem to have a negative effect on a individuals reproductive success(self sacrifice, monogamy, sharing ect.....) but have indirect effects that outweigh the direct effects, anyone familiar with evolution should be familiar with these "apparent contradictions".
Ignorant AND closed minded, in fairness I think it has to be one or the other.
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
No not really, ignorant simply means one lacks knowledge, being closed minded means one is unwilling to accept new ideas/ intolerant of others beliefs and opinions.
While it's not rare for and individual to only posses the one of these characteristics it seems more common that individuals posses both.
I meant me personally. Although I fully admit to not knowing many things, I do consider myself pretty open minded. If I wasn't I would have stopped doing this podcast long ago, I also wouldn't be replying to anyone. I can disagree with people without being close minded.
PrimeTyme45
CAGiversary!
Well, you and Christian now have a new name for your podcast: "Ignorant or Closed Minded Opinons." Rolls right off the tongue.
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
Double post
Last edited by a moderator:
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
Most close minded people consider themselves open minded, also replying to people isn't a sign of open mindedness just take a look at the cag VS forums. It's not that you disagree with others it's that you don't care to listen to others.
I remember back when AC2 announced that it would require PC gamers to be always online. Your reaction was along the line of PC gamers are just mad because they won't be able to pirate it, I believe you also said the only reason people pirate games is becuase they are to cheep to buy them. Both statements where demostrably false, you didn't bother to respond to most of the points in the thread nor have I heard you take back either statement. I also recall an arguing that you were right that some game was bad because it didn't sell well.
But rather than talk about things from years ago here's an example from the thread
[SIZE=11.5pt]The irony is this statement itself is bigoted. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]It's possible to have a moral view on homosexuality without having fear, distrust, hatred or discriminating against homosexuals. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]You just stated that someone is wrong, should basically go away and not bother asking for a explanation of why there are wrong simply because they disagree with you. There is as much reasoning and understanding in this response as there is to a hardcore homophobe's response to someone trying to convince them that homosexuality isn't a sin, infract replace "normal" and "a bigot" with sinful and it becomes one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]While homosexuality had become generally accepted by society, there are many sexual/relationship preference which are not and I'm sure you have a moral view on, the only difference I see is one is accepted by society while the others aren't which history shows is not a proof of moral high ground.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]Open minded isn't about being right or wrong it's about being able to listen to and dicuss diferences opinion. While I find MattZack's arguments extremely flawed, your response doesn’t address any of the flaws, instead you simply label him and dismiss him. I fail to see how telling people with different opinions that they should seek out people who share their opinions is helpful to anyone or can be labeled anything but closeminded. [/SIZE]
I edited your quote for length. OK, fist thing. Thanks to you I just listened to a CAGcast clip from 4 years ago. For those reading, it was ( http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/2/6/026d926724b76b5d/cagcast189.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06c88737d8c05f949e&c_id=1632089 ) 45 minutes in.
And that is not what I said, that pirates that are upset about DRM only have themselves to blame. Also pirating a game is bad regardless of the reason. We are not talking about stealing bread to feed your family.
Now back to the issue at hand. I have an usually large amount of gay friends, to have people pre-judge someone's morality based on their favorite consenting adult sexual position to me is just odd. It is no different then judging some based on their religion or skin color.
While I do agree I could be a better listener at times, I do listen and I do respond, and I do not believe I am close minded. Just because I haven't changed my mind, doesn't mean I don't pay attention to what others say.
Darkpaul
CAGiversary!
Cheapy, I think the reason why gamers love kickstarter is the idea that the game they want could potentially come out. I mean we may still see psychonauts 2 come from this or something amazing from a studio that wants to make a great game, not a good game that had to change their vision due to publisher pressure or deadlines.
The very idea of sony or EA or activision or any big company using kickstarter for ANYTHING is a real kick in the balls for people who simply dream for a better game.
The very idea of sony or EA or activision or any big company using kickstarter for ANYTHING is a real kick in the balls for people who simply dream for a better game.
[SIZE=10.5pt]The reason homosexuality is studied is because it's an abnormality. We all have abnormalities. Every one of us. That's what behavioral scientists do--they study deviations from normality to find causes and effects. I happen to be abnormally intelligent and handsome. You don't see me pushing for intelligent and handsome videogame characters. Homosexuality is a textbook example of a dysfunction (abnormal or lack of functioning) of a bodily system--a sexual system that is inhibited or prevented from achieving sexual reproduction due to unknown causes. So, in fact, every single scientific study of homosexuality is a tacit recognition that it is abnormal. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Some people aren't mature enough to understand that terms like "abnormal" or "dysfunction" are not insults. It is in no way mean or derogatory to recognize abnormalities or dysfunctions and label them as such. But it also does not mean that a videogame geared towards small children should incorporate abnormalities and dysfunctions into gameplay to placate every group of people. Or permit all manner of lifestyles to be represented. If you disagree, would you also insist that children choose their character's religion in Tomodachi Life? Religion is a part of society and is much more common than homosexuality. Yet I'm guessing a lot of people would see that as indoctrination, including me. Should the children be told that the homosexual characters can't have children? How would that make a gay kid feel? Would they still choose to be a gay character? The rabbit hole gets really convoluted once you start molding a children's videogame to suit your point of view and try to decide how to shade various truths to match your goals.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]I really don't want my three-year-old or nine-year-old wondering if they're straight or gay because of Tomodachi Life. Or my nine-year-old thinking her best friend is her future wife when they're really just friends. I don't want to explain why some people think they are born in the wrong bodies or a variety of other conditions that are inappropriate for children to deal with. Such things are hard enough for adults. Feel free to experiment on your own children if you disagree (or, more likely, deftly give your kids sugarcoated answers that sidestep reality).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]There's a difference between being open-minded and being incapable of make sensible distinctions. If you believe children's videogames are avenues to introduce children to your social and poltical views, then you need to grow up.[/SIZE]
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
1. Abonormal not only implies a deviation from the normal but that the deviation worrrying or a problem, unusual may be a better term.
2. It really depends on the use of the word abonormal, in this context it appears that actripxl was implying that homosexuality was abornmal as it only appeared in humans and not something that could have evoleved(which is false). Also there are species where most of the member practice homosexuality.
I'm sorry you had to listen to all that, I would have done it myself but I couldn't find the original thread, it seems like the search function of the new site doesn't find posts from the old site.
To quote what you said "what I said, that pirates that are upset about DRM only have themselves to blame" is kind of what I mean. As pointed out in the thread many times none of pirates were upset about DRM because none of them were affected by it, all it does is hurt the people who actully pay money for the games, and actully encourages piracy as the pirated version of the game would play better.
Your only response to all the comments was "I never knew that PC gamers were so sensitive, they all sound like me"
I disagree on the piracy is always bad thing but let's leave it at that.
Back to the issue at hand as you said, I don't think people should be judged on their sexuality race ect... either, I also don't think people should be judged/discriminated against for expressing their opinions either. The attitude that people that who have homophobic beliefs are somehow immoral closed minded monsters incapable of reason and need to be oscticized is the same kind of attitude that allowed homophobic attitudes to flourish in the first place. (not saying this is your view)
If you want people to try to understand gays then try understanding them, none of your posts in this thread lead me to believe that you that you were interested in understanding why actripxl or MattZack had to say. While most liberals will say something bigoted like "you can't reason with a bigot" the fact is if you are knowledgeable about the subject and are willing to have a logical disussion with them I've found that most people with homophobic views will take back what they said.
Sure there are some that are close minded and treated and will simply stop replying or resort to name calling when you bring up counter points based on facts and reason (actripxl seems to be one of these).
How many of your post are you trying are you asking for details or bringing up facts and how many of your posts are you telling people to not talk to you or calling people names (directly or indirectly).
bread's done