CAGcast #66: Gettin' Pizaid

Is more of the same necessarily a bad thing? In my opinion, not at all. In fact, I think it would be a good idea for some developers of well established franchises to spend a little more time polishing some existing features, and a little less time adding new ones. I’m all for innovation, but innovation for the sake of innovating isn’t always a good thing.

I think some developers feel the need to add some number of new features with each new release of their product. So instead of adding a feature to improve the experience, they add a feature just so they can add it to a list of new features on the back of the box. I think Madden is a good example of this. EA knows they need to convince you that you need to buy a new copy every year. So what do they do? They add a couple of features with each release but many of these features are under developed or just useless, but they all end up on the back of the box as “improvements” over the last year’s game.

One game franchise I feel could benefit from some polishing is Grand Theft Auto. GTA 3 blew everyone away with innovation. Most short comings could easily be ignored because it was just such great new experience. The problem I have with the franchise is that with GTA Vice City and San Andreas, the developers added several new features but really haven’t gone back and addressed some of the original issues with the core game. The most glaring issue for me is the on foot combat. It is an important core piece of the game but it remains the weakest piece and just doesn’t feel quite right. I know they’ve touched it up a bit in San Andreas but it still feels clunky.

If you look at some of the most successful franchises today, several are not all that innovative. I would say most great titles are just very well polished versions of an established genre. Games like Halo or God of War, didn’t reinvent the wheel. They polished and perfected established genres and that’s what makes them so great. I believe all franchises need to evolve to survive and remain relevant but evolution doesn’t necessarily mean adding tons of new and different features; evolution can also mean perfecting existing features.

I actually have a lot more to say on this subject but this post is already getting too long to read.
 
I like wombat a lot and if anything I think cheapy doesn't let him monologue enough as he has very good insights.

But this whole bitterness persona is sort of becoming a caricature of who he is and makes him less likable.

Might I suggest targeted bitterness rather than all consuming bitterness?
 
It looks like Wombat isn't the only one that noticed Ubisoft's love for Mexico! :bomb:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167149.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0


Mexican mayor slams GRAW2

Mayor of border town Juárez says new Ubisoft shooter instills poor values and portrays his city as violent.

By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Mar 9, 2007 10:37 am PT

The line between the real world and a digital world based on the real world is becoming more and more blurred as next-gen systems and high-end PCs crank out sophisticated graphics and physics. Storytelling in games is also getting more realistic, and for shooters set during modern times, that can mean some ruffled feathers.

The mayor of Mexican border town Juárez, Héctor Murguía Lardizábal, has condemned Ubisoft's Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 and is asking Mexican federal authorities to act immediately to get the game out of children's reach, reports the El Paso Times. Lardizábal believes the game paints a negative picture of his city and encourages tension between the United States and Mexico.

Set in Juárez, Mexico, and El Paso, Texas, GRAW2 sees an elite combat unit battling Mexican rebels in the year 2014. Lardizábal sees the game as a criminal act against the intellectual capacity of the people of Juárez, whereas Ubisoft sees the game as a fictional story, according to the paper.
The Tom Clancy games, which include the Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell series, have upset government officials before. 2004's Ghost Recon 2 drew harsh words from the North Korean government, and closer to home, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas upset Las Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman, who said the game could be "economically harmful" to his city.

Whereas Lardizábal waited until the day of GRAW2's release to voice his protest, Venezuelan legislator Gabriela Ramirez spoke out against Pandemic Studios' upcoming Mercenaries 2: World in Flames way back in May 2006. Ramirez said the game, set in Venezuela with the object of taking on a "power hungry tyrant," was "a justification for an imperial aggression."
Ubisoft was not immediately available for comment.
Click to expand...
 
I have to agree w/Wombat about not changing games/core gameplay for each sequel can be good. I mean, take your favorite game of all time...now imagine that exact same game came out (same gameplay, etc) but with all new levels that were just as good or even a little better than before...that would be a sweet game, no?!?

I know sometimes I wish someone would just make new levels for Super Metroid...that game is the bomb (bad pun intended).
 
Regarding Wombat's point about sequels I have to agree with earlier posts that more of the same is perfectly fine as long as those titles are priced accordingly. Remember back in the Street Fighter days when Capcom released variant after variant of SF2 on SNES and Genesis (CE, Turbo, Hyper, etc) and charged the SAME price for all of them? Life was rough for a CAG then.

I'd also like to highlight a major disturbing trend that these kind of sequels are showing. A recent Gamespot review of GRAW2 gave it good marks but stated that the single player campaign is less than 5 hours long most likely the result of Ubisoft rushing GRAW2 out the door in less than a year:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/graw2/review.html?sid=6167103

Making a more of the same is one thing, giving you less content and charging the same for it is another. How many years was GRAW1 in development for GRAW2 to cost the same with less than a year of effort? Is there a more clear cut case of arbitrary $60 pricing?
 
Your question about whether ones prefers "Eastern" or "Western" games was interesting. I have to say I definitely fall on the "Eastern" side, though I never really thought about it that way. I guess that's why the Xbox was never appealing to me. And while I'm getting a 360, it is really only for 2 reasons: 1) Lack of 1080i scaler on the PS3, and 2) There are a few Eastern-like games coming out for it (Blue Dragon for one).

I simply don't get all the interest in these Halo/Gears of War/COD/Dead Rising types of games. I may try one of them some day, but they seem such low priority to me (as in there are dozens of other games I'd like to play first). And I guess I'm not interested in most other "Western" fare such as GTA, racing (except Burnout), and most sports games (except I would like to play NCAA Football and College Hoops on the 360, and possibly NBA Street). Then again, I'm not interested in some of the high-profile Japanese stuff either like MGS or any of the Tekken/VF fighting games. And while the whole Xbox Live thing sounds interesting, I can see myself not playing online very much. I would feel that I'd need to practice a ton before going online with a game, and I simply don't have the time to do that.

What I didn't realize was how different my tastes were from the typical American gamer - and I guess Cheapy and Wombat fall into that category from their comments in the last CAGcast. So I need to keep that in mind when I hear Wombat disparage the Wii or you guys knock the apparent lack of titles for it (for me, looking at the 360, I see only 2 or 3 games all 2007 that I'm interested in while there's many more for the Wii). Of course, I'm a bit older. Maybe that's why the blood and guts stuff doesn't appeal to me? I dunno. But it's not like I played that stuff on the PC when I was in my 20's either. I've always been a big RPG fan and I like BOTH the Eastern and Western styles there. But beyond that I think the most potential for fun seems to be in the quirky Japanese stuff like Katamari and Elebits. And of course the standard Nintendo fare (Mario, Zelda, etc). I guess that's why I had a GC and PS2 last gen without ever really planning it that way.

What this also means is that despite having dismissed the PS3 I will probably pick one up eventually (and probably sooner than I realize). But I'm sticking to my decision to get a 360. I just wish they'd announce a revised model soon! So much for the GDC predictions that you guys talked about in the last CAGcast (not a knock on you guys at all - but on the other site that made the high likelihood prediction of a new 360 model being announced at GDC). I'm assuming that is over now and we're past any big breaking news coming out. Oh well... Now to wait on the Australian rumor of a new 360 end of March/beginning of April.
 
Cheapy, I graciously accept your thinly-veiled invitation to be the next guest. What with all of the glowing accolades my fellow CAGgers bestow upon me on a dai...oh, I'm sorry...what's that? Excuse me, my publicist has cleared things up. So sorry. Apparently I'm not very adept at recognizing utter disdain in print. Says I should expect lots of "quotes" of this post and a record-setting amount of 'eye-rolling' emoticons.

(Is it that guy with 'lobsters...in his pants!'?)

I'm going to be really bold here and predict that the winner of the karaoke contest will be far more "William Hung" than "Taylor Hicks". Why don't we respect the concept over here like they do in Japan? And how will one bad singer being a jackass for kicks stand out over everyone else?

Also, you missed your opportunity to start this week's show off by ominously saying "Execute Podcast 66." Mmm...g'hoy!

EDIT: While I'm only about a third into it, I too am thoroughly enjoying Crackdown and yet support Wombat's assertion that it's not finished. It's the 'fullest' bare-bones experience you'll ever have. Can't wait to see them 'flesh it out' in a sequel, fingers crossed. 8.5.
 
hey wombat. have you played the arcade game rolling thunder by namco? it was made in the mid 80s around the same time as elevator action and it also had a guy running around with a pistol shooting bad guys. you can even use a machine gun!

it would make a great xbox live arcade game.
 
hells bells... i made it about 22 minutes in then my ears started filling up with blood and i couldnt finish... sheeeeesh...

and i'll give half-props to 'Second Sight'. I bought it, but a year later I've still yet to break the shrinkwrap on it. I dug the demo and was a big fan of 'Psi-Ops' gameplay. You've just about convinced me to finally check it out Wombat.

FANTASTIC SHOW! IT CHANGED MY LIFE!
 
You've got to be kidding, griping about Cole Train. He's most people's favorite character in Gears. It's not stereotyping to portray a former football player as a former football player. Anyone familiar with Lester Speight's Terry Tate character had to love the references in Gears.

"The Pain Train's coming..WOO, WOO..WOO, WOO!!!"

 
Wombat went straight up and tossed up confusion for his Wombat Burrow segment, I have been listening to this show for a pretty long time and I have come to agree with Wombat on most issues, but then this show comes along and essientially ruins it all. I know Wombat to be someone who is damn tough on games, he values his cash and isn't going to throw it out for a game that isn't of the highest quality.

But now you devote an entire segment that boils down to saying that "More of the same is fine" what the hell happened to the Wombat who demanded new and unique experiences from games, you stood out in my mind because you made it an effort to take the sequels that are crammed down and always said "But what did they improve on" when did you make this sacrifice and accept mediocore titles with the same gameplay and no new features.
 
I have only listened to a few episodes so far, and I am impressed with the quality of each. Keep on truckin'!

Personally, games that are more of the same are both the poison and the antidote of the gaming industry. While the games make sales , they are pretty much the same game, but slightly different. However, the consisitent cash flow from a money-making franchise of such games can free up funds to innovate.

Wouldn't it be nice to see another side of the game industry that we never see? Like with the Defender interview, it was a nice surprise to learn about independent game retailers. Aside from this, is there any aspect of the industry that no one ever talks about?
 
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