Church has funeral for aborted fetuses...

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...theashesoffetusesfromabortionclinic&printer=1

This brings up a lot more issues than one would think at first glance.
Does a womans right to "choose" extend after the baby (or whatever
you want to call the thing lodge in her uterus) has been aborted?
Should the mother be able to decide what happens to the corpse?
Does it matter? Is these still a post-abortion responsibility that
a mother must take. Interesting questions indeed.

Thoughts?
 
Interesting concept, I'd say the easiest way to deal with it would be to follow the same elimination procedure used for removed organs, tumors and fat. If of course there is a standardized procedure.

Glad you posted this article, its the most interesting thing anyone has posted here in weeks.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Interesting concept, I'd say the easiest way to deal with it would be to follow the same elimination procedure used for removed organs, tumors and fat. If of course there is a standardized procedure.

Glad you posted this article, its the most interesting thing anyone has posted here in weeks.[/quote]

I suppose this makes sense given the current LEGAL definition of an aborted baby (again... fetus... whatever you want to call it),although it'd rile up pro-lifers like myself. But people don't find it hard to get their appendixes taken out... whereas its a much more difficult thing to have an abortion. Perhaps there SHOULD be some sort of burial option open to these women. But again, it would show some conflicting values. Obviously its difficult because a mother has an emotion bond to thier child, but according to the law it IS no different than an appendix. Burial would signify that the "tissue" extracted was actually living... thus making the process that much harder.

Very very intersting... the more I think about it.
 
Removed tissues (from surgeries and the like), after any testing and biopsies that may be needed, are classified as medical waste and are required to be incinerated (at least in most states. There may be a few who do something different.) After that, the leftover ashes are pretty much just considered trash and are generally just dumped in the local landfill, at least in most states. There's been some debate about whether its 'safe' to just pitch the ashes, but cremation kills virtually anything, with the exception of mad cow disease, so for the most part, its not a big topic.

In most states you can also choose to take the tissue material with you, though obviously, that's not exactly recommended. I have an uncle who has both his gallbladder and his appendix in jars, and is rather proud of them. He's a tad strange :p

Anyway, it sounds to me like the abortion clinic followed proper proceedure in making sure the fetuses were destroyed, but the crematorium most definitely made a major mistake in turning the ashes over to a religion group. I'd say they're in store for a major ass-kicking in court.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Not to sound like an ass but what's next, funerals for Miscarriages?[/quote]

Your sig has a lot of :wink:'s
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Not to sound like an ass but what's next, funerals for Miscarriages?[/quote]
I don't think its that uncommon, at least with late-term miscarriages.
 
[quote name='Drocket']Removed tissues (from surgeries and the like), after any testing and biopsies that may be needed, are classified as medical waste and are required to be incinerated (at least in most states. There may be a few who do something different.) After that, the leftover ashes are pretty much just considered trash and are generally just dumped in the local landfill, at least in most states. There's been some debate about whether its 'safe' to just pitch the ashes, but cremation kills virtually anything, with the exception of mad cow disease, so for the most part, its not a big topic.

In most states you can also choose to take the tissue material with you, though obviously, that's not exactly recommended. I have an uncle who has both his gallbladder and his appendix in jars, and is rather proud of them. He's a tad strange :p

Anyway, it sounds to me like the abortion clinic followed proper proceedure in making sure the fetuses were destroyed, but the crematorium most definitely made a major mistake in turning the ashes over to a religion group. I'd say they're in store for a major ass-kicking in court.[/quote]

See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']
See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.[/quote]

I feel no more emotional attachment to a fetus than to a tumor and if you do then perhaps you really shouldn't be getting an abortion in the first place.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.[/quote]

Well, personally, if I found out that my (now removed) gallbladder had been 'hijacked' by someone, I'd be a tad disturbed. I probably wouldn't lose sleep over it, but I would be wondering what in the heck they were doing...

Of course, the real issue here is that the church is quite deliberately using the ashes for political purposes. If they simply cared about burying the ashes, they could have done that quietly and no one would even know about it. Instead, they have to have a pre-planned cerimony in order to whip up a public frenzy about abortion.

So the real question you should ask is, if someone was using your old liver as a tool to advance a political goal you disagree with, would you be pissed about that? I'm willing to bet the answer is yes.
 
I agree that cremation is probably wasteful. We should do something useful with the fetuses - like extract the stem cells from them.

Oh, I forgot - sick people have to die because Bush hates the Row vs Wade decision. Thank god for Cah-li-fornia.
 
[quote name='camoor']I agree that cremation is probably wasteful. We should do something useful with the fetuses - like extract the stem cells from them.

Oh, I forgot - sick people have to die because Bush hates the Row vs Wade decision. Thank god for Cah-li-fornia.[/quote]
Lovely, the guy who bashes the government for funding drug research wants the government to pay for stem cell research. Shame on those drug companies for making all that dirty money.

the only ones who will profit from this will be the companies who end up developing the technology and have the largest stash of stem cells. Then you can protest against those bad old corporations that developed another new medical cure and make money off it.

Glad to know you've thought this one out before answering in a fit of emotion.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='camoor']I agree that cremation is probably wasteful. We should do something useful with the fetuses - like extract the stem cells from them.

Oh, I forgot - sick people have to die because Bush hates the Row vs Wade decision. Thank god for Cah-li-fornia.[/quote]
Lovely, the guy who bashes the government for funding drug research wants the government to pay for stem cell research. Shame on those drug companies for making all that dirty money.

the only ones who will profit from this will be the companies who end up developing the technology and have the largest stash of stem cells. Then you can protest against those bad old corporations that developed another new medical cure and make money off it.

Glad to know you've thought this one out before answering in a fit of emotion.[/quote]

Oh no, the gods of reason and capitalism have come down to smite me!

No wait, the government has funded all sorts of other clinical drug trials, and we have all benefitted. The system has been corrupted by greedy drug company CEOs, but that can be fixed with the proper legislation.

If you think that Bush's reluctance to fund meaningful stem cell research is not religiously motivated, then you're smoking something that the government has made illegal.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='pumbaa']
See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.[/quote]

I feel no more emotional attachment to a fetus than to a tumor and if you do then perhaps you really shouldn't be getting an abortion in the first place.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that no woman out there has no emotional attachement to the fetus growing in her. Abortions are a hard deiscion to make... BECAUSE of the emotions and feelings involved.

[quote name='Drocket'][quote name='pumbaa']See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.[/quote]

Well, personally, if I found out that my (now removed) gallbladder had been 'hijacked' by someone, I'd be a tad disturbed. I probably wouldn't lose sleep over it, but I would be wondering what in the heck they were doing...

Of course, the real issue here is that the church is quite deliberately using the ashes for political purposes. If they simply cared about burying the ashes, they could have done that quietly and no one would even know about it. Instead, they have to have a pre-planned cerimony in order to whip up a public frenzy about abortion.

So the real question you should ask is, if someone was using your old liver as a tool to advance a political goal you disagree with, would you be pissed about that? I'm willing to bet the answer is yes.[/quote]

I'm not so sure thats obvious. Catholics are all about ceremony, and I doubt that they would do this just to get attention. Then again, you might be right... I just don't think it 100% sure.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']It's a pizza when it comes out of the oven.

NO! It's a pizza when you put your hands into the dough![/quote]

Watch it, or the fundies will start shooting Domino's drivers...
 
[quote name='pumbaa']I'm not so sure thats obvious. Catholics are all about ceremony, and I doubt that they would do this just to get attention. Then again, you might be right... I just don't think it 100% sure.[/quote]

"The church began getting ashes from the mortuary in 1996 and had been doing burial services since 2001. Parishioners went public this year to commemorate the 32nd anniversary of Roe vs. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion."
 
[quote name='camoor']I agree that cremation is probably wasteful. We should do something useful with the fetuses - like extract the stem cells from them.
[/quote]
I agree. They should have used it for stem cells instead of waisting money on cremating it.
 
[quote name='"pumbaa"'][quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='pumbaa']
See, thats the exact legal voice that I'm talking about. And that's fine (legally). But the question to ask would be, would people have problems with their extracted cremated livers being used somehow. Would there be as much a controversy? I think aborted fetus' are a bit of a different animal, if not in the legal sense in the emotional sense.[/quote]

I feel no more emotional attachment to a fetus than to a tumor and if you do then perhaps you really shouldn't be getting an abortion in the first place.[/quote]

I really wouldn't go that far, its more of an attachment to possibilities than it is to anything of actual substance.

But I'm afraid I lack the capacity to give birth so I'll never really know for sure. :lol:
 
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