Conservatives, where's the outrage?

alonzomourning23

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Found this on frontpagemag.com, so I know scrub will love it:

Conservatives often complain, with good cause, about America-hating left-wing radicals in academia. Yet in recent weeks, a college professor who co-founded an organization that refers to the United States as an ''alien occupier" in its manifesto -- and whose 2001 essay blaming the ''barbarism" of American policies for Sept. 11 was picked up by Pravda, the Russian communist newspaper -- has received gushing praise on the conservative media circuit.

Meet Thomas E. Woods Jr., assistant professor of history at Suffolk County Community College on Long Island and author of ''The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History." A main selection of the Conservative Book Club, it has been propelled to the New York Times best-seller list with help from talk shows such as Fox News's ''Hannity & Colmes."

The book's back cover promises a refutation of ''myths" written into textbooks and popular history books by left-wing academics. But don't expect a book that celebrates American heroes and American accomplishments as an antidote to hand-wringing over the sins of dead white males.

If there are any American heroes in Woods's book, apart from the Founding Fathers, it's the Southerners who fought for the Confederacy. Abraham Lincoln is on the villain side of the ledger.

Woods makes the disclaimer that ''no one, of course, mourns the passing of the slave system." However, he apparently thinks the Southern states should have been allowed to abolish slavery in due time without federal intervention. In any case, to hear Woods, the ''War Between the States" had hardly anything to do with slavery: The South really fought for self-determination, the North for its economic interests. (Ironically, on the latter point Woods is in agreement with most left-wing historians.)

The book's obvious sympathy for the Southerners and their suffering is matched by a lack of any acknowledgment of the horror of slavery -- or any moral revulsion at the fact that some Americans owned, and defended the ''right" to own, other human beings.

Much of the book's second half rails against the evils of American intervention abroad. As with the Civil War, the moral issues in World War II (Woods deplores US involvement) go virtually unmentioned. Woods rightly assails Franklin D. Roosevelt for his willingness to throw Eastern Europe to the Soviets -- then slams Harry Truman's strategy of assisting nations threatened by a communist takeover as more ''big government" liberalism. In one example of his selective approach to facts, he quotes an investigator's assertion in 1999 that no mass graves of ethnic cleansing victims were uncovered in Kosovo -- without mentioning that the remains of at least 4,000 were found by 2001.

''The Politically Incorrect Guide" isn't always incorrect. Woods is right that Cold War-era Soviet espionage was not just Joe McCarthy's fantasy. His critical view of FDR's New Deal is shared by mainstream free market economists. Unfortunately, whatever solid arguments this book has can only be tainted by association with Woods's ultra-reactionary extremism.

The full extent of that extremism is camouflaged in the book. The author's official bio leaves out the fact that Woods is a co-founder and member of pro-secession League of the South. Here's a sample of the League's views, from a position paper: ''Today's white Christian Southerners are the blood descendants of the men and women who settled this country and gave us the blessings of freedom and prosperity. To give away this inheritance in the name of 'equality' or 'fairness' would be unconscionable." While generously urging ''Christian charity" toward blacks, the paper denounces the idea that ''Southerners should give control over their civilization and its institutions to another race, whether it be native blacks or Hispanic immigrants."

Woods's own writings for publications such as The Southern Partisan are revealing. In a 1997 essay, he writes that the Confederacy's defeat was the ''real watershed from which we can trace many of the destructive trends" in modern America. He vilifies abolitionists and endorses a Southern theologian's description of slavery's defenders as ''friends of order and regulated freedom." There's a lot more, collected by University of North Carolina professor Eric Muller at www.isthatlegal.org.

Woods has complained about being judged on his old writings; yet, in an e-mail exchange, he would not repudiate any of his past statements or his association with the League of the South.

If you want to talk about America-hating professors, here's someone who hates nearly everything about the last 140 years of US history. Yet only a handful of right-of-center commentators -- Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit.com, Max Boot in The Weekly Standard -- have spoken out against the book. Where's the outrage? Is this the kind of ideology conservatives want to be associated with? Does anything labeled ''politically incorrect" get a pass?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17224
 
Classic reactionary philosophy. Isolationism, the North was on the wrong end of the civil war, etc. Just dismiss it as the fringe-element stuff it is.
 
That's true, I just find it ironic since conservatives constantly expect liberals to denounce their radicals. This guy was even supported by well known conservatives such as hannity.
 
I think that the outrage is muted and limited by the fact that he just wrote a book. There is no little academic creedence given someone that is employed by a community college as opposed to a state university or large major private school. There is no media outlet employing him. He just wrote a book and made the talk show rounds.

There are plenty of people that write books that would cause outrage but we just don't know about them. Even if Hannity talked about him and supported him I've never heard of the guy. I listen to his radio show, rarely watch the Fox show and don't recall this guys name.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I think that the outrage is muted and limited by the fact that he just wrote a book. There is no University, from what I gathered from the article, that receives state funds backing him professionally. There is no media outlet employing him. He just wrote a book and made the talk show rounds.

There are plenty of people that write books that would cause outrage but we just don't know about them. Even if Hannity talked about him and supported him I've never heard of the guy. I listen to his radio show, rarely watch the Fox show and don't recall this guys name.[/quote]

The point is conservatives have supported him, not only that there was no outrage, but also that they supported him. If a book written by a guy such as ward churchill was being touted on tv by a famous liberal pundit, that guy wouldn't hear the end of it. Also, you didn't read the whole article, this is not an unknown book:

A main selection of the Conservative Book Club, it has been propelled to the New York Times best-seller list with help from talk shows such as Fox News's ''Hannity & Colmes."
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I think that the outrage is muted and limited by the fact that he just wrote a book. There is no little academic creedence given someone that is employed by a community college as opposed to a state university or large major private school. .[/quote]

like this guy...

Prof. Clyde Wilson University of South Carolina: College of Arts and Sciences.

http://www.cas.sc.edu/hist/facultyprofiles.html
(bottom of page)

a man who advocates a "war crimes trial" for Abraham Lincoln

Heads a group which want southern secession and once labeled black people "a deadly and compliant underclass." ( the group not the prof)

complains "It's terrible that Southerners have been so willing to sacrifice their lives for the United States"

and warns agains American allegiance.
 
Actually, I think the Ward Churchill comparison is pretty apt. Both are on the fringe. Obviously no sane person would construe the rantings of those individuals as representative of mainstream liberals or conservatives.
 
I could put fourth many postulates that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal and a violator of the Constitution.

It IS revisionist and PC to say the Civil War was fought over slavery, it wasn't.
 
It was and it wasn't over slavery. Lincoln wanted slavery abolished, but it was more of a desired outcome. It was not more important than keeping the nation together, and would have been sacrificed to do so. The south wanted self determination, but it was due to the attempts to abolish slavery. Slavery was essential to the economy, and even though most did not own slaves, that does not mean that they didn't see it as important and that the abolition movement threatened their society in a way that they had no control over.

Though I think you've proven mine, and the authors point. When a conservative writes a book like this there is no outrage. There's more support than anything else.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I could put fourth many postulates that Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal and a violator of the Constitution.

It IS revisionist and PC to say the Civil War was fought over slavery, it wasn't.[/quote]

Always an excuse...

first it is ..."he's a community college professor", then "well the uni prof has some points, Wake me up after "it's all Clinton fault".

The OP post was about hypocrisy and you've shown it quite well.

and elprincipe..you are about the only conservative I've heard of willing to dismiss Ward Churchill (of course after getting a few hits in)
 
Conservatives, where's the outrage?

Once again I come to look around in here and all I see is liberal stupidity.

Do you realize that you are complaining about outrage when the very article you quote is pointing out how wacko this radical righty is?

Not to mention that there is a big difference between someone who writes a book and a college professor who has great influence on students.
 
Not to mention that there is a big difference between someone who writes a book and a college professor who has great influence on students.

The guy who wrote the book (ive read some of it,nuttier than squirrel turds) is a college proffesor.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']

Once again I come to look around in here and all I see is liberal stupidity.

[/quote]

Oh I don't think Liberals have a monopoly on stupidity, especially around here.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']
Conservatives, where's the outrage?

Once again I come to look around in here and all I see is liberal stupidity.

Do you realize that you are complaining about outrage when the very article you quote is pointing out how wacko this radical righty is?

Not to mention that there is a big difference between someone who writes a book and a college professor who has great influence on students.[/quote]

Are you that blind? The article is complaining about the lack of outrage among other conservatives. The article is not so much about one conservatives outrage, but that she is one of the only ones to be outraged, and that prominent conservatives have supported the book. Again though, with the help of conservatives, such as hannity, he has a new york times best seller.

I never figured conservatives would be so hypocritical, maybe scrub but that was it. Honestly I made this post as more of a joke, since liberals are always expected to express outrage at their extremists.
 
[quote name='usickenme']and elprincipe..you are about the only conservative I've heard of willing to dismiss Ward Churchill (of course after getting a few hits in)[/quote]

Well, first of all I wouldn't consider myself a conservative. Perhaps you have read some of my points expressing conservative viewpoints. I can assure you there are many issues where I would take a more liberal point of view. I guess all in all I probably have a few more conservative viewpoints than liberal, but I'd describe myself as moderate overall (on any particular issue I might even be rather far to the right or left).

And Churchill is a buffoon, yet he doesn't speak for liberals as a group any more than Jesse Jackson speaks for blacks as a group or Ann Coulter for conservatives as a group. When these people get elected, let me know. Until then, they're just some crazy public figures.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It IS revisionist and PC to say the Civil War was fought over slavery, it wasn't.[/quote]

Only if you're saying it wasn't totally about slavery. Slavery obviously was a major factor. You need to re-read the history books if you think otherwise. Not the only factor or even the only major factor, but a pretty damn big factor.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It IS revisionist and PC to say the Civil War was fought over slavery, it wasn't.[/quote]

Only if you're saying it wasn't totally about slavery. Slavery obviously was a major factor. You need to re-read the history books if you think otherwise. Not the only factor or even the only major factor, but a pretty damn big factor.[/quote]

Examiner: All right, here's your last question. What was the cause of the Civil War?

Apu: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists, there were economic factors, both domestic and inter--

Examiner: Wait, wait... just say 'slavery'.

Apu: Slavery it is, sir!
 
Camoor summed it up well. That's all we're supposed to say anymore.

Anytime someone can interject a Simpsons quote on the subject for this board the argument is over. Otherwise we'll just get into a "wheels on the bus go round and round" type argument and we have enough of those already.
 
Go ahead and find me a direct quote from the Simpsons in regards to the Electoral College, abortion rights, gay marriage, underage drinking, illegal drug use, the 5th ammendment as it applies to non-uniformed combatants and the "nuclear option".

When you do, we'll be here waiting.

In the meantime STFU and STFD. We settled the Civil War argument based on what Apu's citizenship testing center worker told him.
 
Actually the gay marriage one is simple. There was a whole episode on that.

marge: “Just because you’re a lesbian doesn’t make you less of a bein’.”

Rev. Lovejoy: (after boarding up the church as a gay couple approach) While I have no opinion for or against your sinful lifestyles, I cannot marry two people of the same sex any more than I can put a hamburger on a hot dog bun. Now go back to working behind the scenes in every facet of entertainment.

marge: As long as two people love each other, I don't think God cares whether they have the same hoo-hoo or ha-ha.

Lovejoy: The Bible forbids same sex relations!

Marge: Which book?

Rev. Lovejoy: The Bible!

Marge: Scriptural scholars disagree... (at which point a grimacing Rev. Lovejoy frantically starts ringing the church bell to drown out what Marge is trying to say).

Though, as for the civil war, all anyone has agreed on was it was not about slavery for the north. Slavery was the main issue (put into the context of self determination) for the south, and since they were the ones who seceded, it can reasonably be said that slavery was the cause of the civil war. Self determination had always been an issue, but the confederacy would never have been formed without the abolitionists primarily in the north, and the economic disaster freeing the slaves would produce.
 
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