Crimes against nature

Kayden

Banned
I came across this while bored at work. I'm just wondering if anyone has read the book or how the likes of PAD and Scrub will defend this.


[quote name='http://squidi.net/']
[size=+2]America, The Fascism [/size]There was this moment of epiphany that came to me the first time I played Civilization 2. It's a good game, but the Aha! moment came when I discovered that America, despite the doctrine I was bread into, is not a Democracy at all. It's a Republic. We elect representatives to work on behalf of the will of the people, not actually giving very much power to the people themselves. Think of it this way. You don't get to change the lightbulb, you get to choose who changes it for you. There are obvious problems with this. After you select the guy to change the lightbulb, he could just go sit on the couch and drink your beer instead.

Of course, the basic idea behind representation is that the average person is too busy with their own lives to spend the time and energy looking up all the details of government needed to make informed decisions. Hell, there's still plenty of Americans who can't read or can't tell the difference between good science and junk "science", so maybe it is truly in the interest of all people that those incapable of making good decisions aren't the ones controlling the destinies of others. A republic is, in theory,

During the time I spent in the hospital with Retz and Lilith, I read a book called "Crimes Against Nature", and I had a second Aha! moment. I realized, once and for all, that this is neither a democracy nor a republic. It is a fascist government. Not the kind of fascist government where you hold up signs and yell "fascists" while protesting global warming - I'm talking fascism in definition and deed. This is not a label, but an accurate description... to the point where maybe we should stop pretending that Democracy is so grand when we stopped practicing it a while ago.

This book is fascinating. Though it's purpose is to present evidence that Bush has been the worst thing to happen to, not just America, but literally the entire world due entirely to environmental reasons, it isn't a defense of global warming or an explanation of gas emissions or anything else. What it is, it is a definitive indepth look into how the Bush administration manipulates politics. That it deals with environmental issues seems almost secondary. I know nothing about global warming, and after reading the book, I still know nothing about it. What I do know is that Bush appointed a head of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) that was a lobbyist for oil companies.

This book is terrifying. I mean, absolutely terrifying. Not just because of the near endless examples of the administration selling things like clean air and water in favor of companies that literally want nothing more than to pollute it, but also because of the way they have stealthily maneuvered around the law, democracy, the public good, and just about everything you could possibly imagine that somehow involve integrity or decency. But let's start with the environment. I'll pick a story that hits particularly close to home.

The White House Office of Science and Technology sat on a report for nine months which found that 1 in 12 American women have enough mercury in their blood to cause permanent brain damage in their unborn children. A more recent study said 1 in 6 women. Then the EPA covered up the true extent of mercury contamination in tuna to help the tuna industry. They release a report that states that albacore tuna has more mercury than canned light tuna, "but does not discuss the frightening results of recent tests by the FDA that found canned albacore tuna to have about three times the mercury of canned light tuna, which itself is too contaminated for children or fertile women to eat frequently". There is an autism epidemic in this country which scientists have suggested is due to mercury poisoning - so they are taking mercury out of their shots to infants and the like. But for the last eight months, I've been hearing Retz tell me that it is okay for her to eat tuna once a week, and before she got pregnant, ate enough sushi to probably ensure our child has permanent IQ damage. If this turn out to be the case, there will be no shortage to the wrath I will bring to the doorstep of each and every person involved in this cover up.

Do we want an EPA that would rather protect the tuna industry than the people? Do we want a government like that? This is but one example in a book with literally hundreds of terrifying examples of "compromises" which has resulted in corporations walking over, sometimes literally, our graves. Bush's administration has completely destroyed such fundamental and important things such as the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act, allowing companies to dump pig shit into our stream - pig shit, I should point out, contaminated with the virus Pfiesteria Piscicida, which "kill millions unpon millions of fish and causes pustulating lesions that won't heal, severe respiratory illness, and brain damage in humans who handle fish or swim in the water". Not only that, but the Bush administration has single handedly removed nearly every recourse that people like you or I have to fight these outrages.

From purely this point of view, I think the information found in this book should be known by every single American out there. I thought the Monsanto bovine hormone that we in Florida drink daily that has been outlawed by nearly every other industrialized country was bad, but compared to some of the stuff in this book - you literally cannot trust even the EPA. Read this book. If you can't afford it, steal it. Download it. Whatever. But you have to know what is in this book. It's terrifying, and what's worse, it's completely intentional. We have literally destroyed every single environmental law made in the past century in the time span of one short administration, and every move and detail is documented in this book in great detail - the author may come off as a Bush hater, but the book is filled with enough facts that it is justified.

In addition to enough true horrors to guarrantee that I spend the first few years of Lilith's existence in sheer, abject terror, this book is exactly the sort of documentation needed to show why we currently live in a fascist government. It is concerned only with environmental rules and doesn't touch things like terrorism or the war in Iraq (except to point out that there is a nuclear power plant 11 miles out of New York that has absolutely no security to speak of, and a bill meant to increase security at chemical plants was shot down over profit motives and not safety). They weren't quite as careful to cover their tracks with this low priority stuff, but it would be absurd to see the kind of manipulations that occur here and not draw the obvious conclusions to foreign policy. At the recent G8 Summit, Bush stood against the Kyoto Accord, and this book explains why - it even explains why Tony Blair referred to it as "climate change" instead of "global warming" (it's less immediate and threatening).

There stuff in this book about how jobs are doled out to supporters of a specific ideology. There's a story about the head of the EPA who actually worked towards something on global warming, only to be shot down (WAY down) by Bush due to some letters written by Dick Cheney under someone else's name. This lady thought she was doing what the administration wanted, but her initiative was against the corporate owner philosophy of this administration, and she was crushed and destroyed. To make it up, she tried to push through some changed to EPA regulations that would've cleared her name - one of which was a reduction on the amount of arsenic in drinking water. The arsenic is a byproduct of mining, which of course was a big spender to the Republican party. Screw the health of the people, they wanted MORE arsenic in water. MORE!

This got out, was very unpopular - even becoming jokes on night time tv. It made the President look very stupid, so they did a study. What this study found was that the regulations imposed under Clinton's regime was actually too little and that if news got out, they'd actually have to INCREASE regulation to meet safety. However, 9/11 happen which completely distracted the news (fucking "news" channels). A few months later, they quietly announced that they would not be changing Clinton's regulations. They didn't reduce it like they wanted, but sitting on evidence which clearly presented the health risks, they didn't increase it either. Mother fuckers. The fundamental question is, does the government exist to serve the people, or do the people exist to give the government somebody to govern. This administration has consistently and clearly made it quite clear that they believe the latter. I had one guy email me over this flag burning situation and he said, presumably with a straight face, that ... hold on, let me quote it exactly... "The strength of this nation isn't in our rights and freedoms, but in our respect for the structure of the government which provides us with those freedoms" - he truly believes that. Dumb mother fucker. I guess I should point out that even in the rule of Hitler and Mussolini, there were plenty of people that bought into their crap too. It's the innate quality of nationalism. This is a fascist government, and I'd like to go into more detail as to what that means, but I'm out of time right now. But find this book and read it, especially if you voted Republican. You may find some justification to defend taking away state rights by making gay marriage constitutionally illegal, but if you can find any justification for arsenic in the drinking water, mercury in the fish, or pig shit in local rivers and streams - then you are the dumbest asshole that has ever walked the planet... but something tells me that it doesn't matter what walk of life you hail from, you'll be just as outraged at the material in this book as any tree hugging hippy ever was.
[/QUOTE]
 
It's an impassioned diatribe, sure enough. How accurate though? I'd like to see the data before coming to a conclusion.
 
[quote name='fanskad']It's an impassioned diatribe, sure enough. How accurate though? I'd like to see the data before coming to a conclusion.[/QUOTE]

For real. Albacore tuna is vastly superior to the regular shit.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']All I see is a bunch of accusations and attacks from a typical wacko Bush hater.[/QUOTE]

Methinks that Scrubking has me on ignore, since he won't answer my queries regarding why he's not in Iraq. Thus, I have a favor to ask of someone, to either source this wikipedia page, or simply quote this post, so Scrub can identify what fascism is (and yet again, to be proven to be a prematurely reactionary twit who is 100% partisan ideological perspectives (i.e., baseless opinions and unproven or debunked theories) and 0% history and 0% fact.

From:Wikipedia
[quote name='Wikipedia']The term fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that in various combinations:

* exalts the nation, (and sometimes the race or culture) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.[/quote]

Hmm. Looks like America to me!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Methinks that Scrubking has me on ignore, since he won't answer my queries regarding why he's not in Iraq. Thus, I have a favor to ask of someone, to either source this wikipedia page, or simply quote this post, so Scrub can identify what fascism is (and yet again, to be proven to be a prematurely reactionary twit who is 100% partisan ideological perspectives (i.e., baseless opinions and unproven or debunked theories) and 0% history and 0% fact.

From:Wikipedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The term fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that in various combinations:

* exalts the nation, (and sometimes the race or culture) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.



Hmm. Looks like America to me![/QUOTE]
:shock:

ZOMG! teh facism!

As for facts about the statements... I'm not the guy to ask. I was just more curious to see if anyone had read the book.
 
I wonder how many people would be say somethign akin to "Uhhh, it's a democracy! Duh!" if you said America was a Republic. I remember mentioning that in one of my Poli Sci classes during a discussion about labels and having at least 10 people jumping in with "It's a democracy, jeez ha ha!". If it's less than 85% I'll be shocked. As for this guy's rant, I don't trust anyone who plays Civilization 2. :lol:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']For real. Albacore tuna is vastly superior to the regular shit.[/QUOTE]

It's all I ever eat. :cool:

Tuna-wise. I still eat other foods. :lol:
 
Is this guy basing his idea of government off of a computer game?

I wonder how many Phalanx's Bush has fortified in the US? Should we build City Walls or a granary?

Seriously though, I'd have to read the book and check his sitings before I could comment.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Is this guy basing his idea of government off of a computer game?

I wonder how many Phalanx's Bush has fortified in the US? Should we build City Walls or a granary?

Seriously though, I'd have to read the book and check his sitings before I could comment.[/QUOTE]

The author is Bobby Kennedy, Jr. I would be highly suspect if you could approach that book without any preexisting biases.

Perhaps the presence of non-scientifically trained Philip Cooney in the white house, editing scientific reports on the greenhouse effect, would lead you to think they have no regard for science?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20713FE3D5F0C768DDDAF0894DD404482

Perhaps the fact that religious ideologies have trumped scientific research (see stem cell research) will serve as evidence of Bush's disregard for sciene?

Perhaps the delightful "DiIulio Letter" will help convince you? This is one of my personal favorites, although it's *really* long: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/DiIulio.html

Sorry for being so assuming, but so few right wingers don't have a knee-jerk reactive fit to the name "Kennedy" that, considering the risk/benefit of typing out a post, the benefits outweighed the risks.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The author is Bobby Kennedy, Jr. I would be highly suspect if you could approach that book without any preexisting biases.

Perhaps the presence of non-scientifically trained Philip Cooney in the white house, editing scientific reports on the greenhouse effect, would lead you to think they have no regard for science?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20713FE3D5F0C768DDDAF0894DD404482

Perhaps the fact that religious ideologies have trumped scientific research (see stem cell research) will serve as evidence of Bush's disregard for sciene?

Perhaps the delightful "DiIulio Letter" will help convince you? This is one of my personal favorites, although it's *really* long: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/DiIulio.html

Sorry for being so assuming, but so few right wingers don't have a knee-jerk reactive fit to the name "Kennedy" that, considering the risk/benefit of typing out a post, the benefits outweighed the risks.[/QUOTE]


While your statement about me being biased may be true. The same can be said for anyone. Bush haters will read the book looking for information to further the case against Bush. The book itself was written with a certain amount of bias. Everything has an angle, I try and take it all with a grain of salt.

Yes, the Kennedy name does scare some, but the Bush name scares more people now. Agreed?
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Yes, the Kennedy name does scare some, but the Bush name scares more people now. Agreed?[/QUOTE]
Agreed, and with good reason. A Bush should scare more people than a Kennedy.
 
I don't bank on anyone dumb enough to have learned America is a republic from playing a video game. It seems like a biased rant based off a book that seems like an even longer biased rant with some fear mongering thrown in. The author, Robert Kennedy Jr, is an enviromental lawyer and a die-hard environmentalist IIRC, being a Kennedy has nothing to do with my taking anything said in that book with the world's largest grain of salt.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Methinks that Scrubking has me on ignore, since he won't answer my queries regarding why he's not in Iraq. Thus, I have a favor to ask of someone, to either source this wikipedia page, or simply quote this post, so Scrub can identify what fascism is (and yet again, to be proven to be a prematurely reactionary twit who is 100% partisan ideological perspectives (i.e., baseless opinions and unproven or debunked theories) and 0% history and 0% fact.

From:Wikipedia
The term fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that in various combinations:

* exalts the nation, (and sometimes the race or culture) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.


Hmm. Looks like America to me![/QUOTE]

Great post, but pretty soon we're going to get some idiot to come up with the connection that Nazis were fascists, then said idiot will get the entire board in a side arguement about how you cant label anyone with a trait that also defined the Nazis.

I'm glad that there's still a core group that can stand up and speak the truth with the gloves off. I guess that's why I'm also still a fan of Dean WHHHHOOAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I don't bank on anyone dumb enough to have learned America is a republic from playing a video game. It seems like a biased rant based off a book that seems like an even longer biased rant with some fear mongering thrown in. The author, Robert Kennedy Jr, is an enviromental lawyer and a die-hard environmentalist IIRC, being a Kennedy has nothing to do with my taking anything said in that book with the world's largest grain of salt.[/QUOTE]

I love the string of ad hominem attacks based on his writing style, job, and anecdotal stories (that were added to underscore the facts).

And then the denial about reacting to the Kennedy name ;)

Hilarious stuff Duo :lol:
 
[quote name='camoor']I love the string of ad hominem attacks based on his writing style, job, and anecdotal stories (that were added to underscore the facts).

And then the denial about reacting to the Kennedy name ;)

Hilarious stuff Duo :lol:[/QUOTE]

Well I haven't read the book so I can't comment other than what I've seen others say about it, so I can't say too much or even that . I've had others tell me about it and some of the things make it sound as if he stretching the truth, which is what I accused him of, but I wouldn't say they are all totally lies either. I didn't mean to attack anything so much as point out that I'm fairly damn certain he has an agenda and his book is hardly an unbiased look at the situation. I certainly see it as a double edged sword... You can't in good sense tell me that if a person who was an attorney for large conglomerate companies and a supporting of say ANWR drilling or something anti-enviromental (if thats even a word...) wrote a book with the opposite arguments you'd automatically take his word on everything he says? I mean I'm sure you've seen a Fox News show and you at least mentally said most of the things I just did, like he's a republican pundit, he's a conservative author, etc. etc. In short, I'm just saying "look at the source" before you believe evertyhing you read/see.

As for the Kennedy Family, I don't give a crap either way. I think Ted Kennedy is a little off and maybe a bit of jackass, I'm too young to remember JFK or Robert Kennedy. To be honest, all I really know about them is that they are a big family that America seems have a fascination for and one of them married the Terminator. I don't even know whether half of them are alive or dead, what they do for a living, etc. and I don't have an comment or opinion on them cuz I don't know them at all. I dont form opinions based on names or the family, more like a person and their actions. Bobby Kennedy Jr has written lots of stuff in the past, been on interviews, and expressed his envriomentalist postions, which is fine, but I think that is a much better indicator of what he is like and what position he holds than a simple name.
 
so there's too much mercury in tuna...

then again, if it wasn't for government regulations, i'm sure that large corporations would be serving even more harmful stuff to us in our food.
 
[quote name='vietgurl']so there's too much mercury in tuna...

then again, if it wasn't for government regulations, i'm sure that large corporations would be serving even more harmful stuff to us in our food.[/QUOTE]

Thats the point. The already lax regulations in place are being changed/removed to suit the whims of big business. These regulations don't me jack because people can just pay to have them changed.
 
bread's done
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