Diane Watson (D- California) Health care town hall - she can't be serious?

Yeah, and you don't even have to go to the extreme of cancer.

What about the person with a sinus infection that turns chronic and leads to potential life long problems as they couldn't afford the antibiotic and/or doctor's visit?

Or the person with a knee or back injury that keeps them from running or even walking without pain and has a hugely negative impact on their quality of life, but they can't afford the surgery to get the problem corrected.

A health care system is pretty broken if there are any cases like that where someone needs care and can't get it for monetary reasons.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So if I have cancer but it's not diagnosed as terminal, and I can't afford chemo, and the insurance I paid thousands into refuses to pay for treatment, I won't get health care.

Glad we're finally on the same page.[/QUOTE]

What I mean is, hospitals are required to give you care you need to live. There are ways to get treatment for things like cancer and other conditions, through charity. Places like the Mayo Clinic will treat you even if you cannot afford it. They have special funds for that.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, and you don't even have to go to the extreme of cancer.

What about the person with a sinus infection that turns chronic and leads to potential life long problems as they couldn't afford the antibiotic and/or doctor's visit?

Or the person with a knee or back injury that keeps them from running or even walking without pain and has a hugely negative impact on their quality of life, but they can't afford the surgery to get the problem corrected.

A health care system is pretty broken if there are any cases like that where someone needs care and can't get it for monetary reasons.[/QUOTE]

Peasants are made to suffer. That is their lot in life. Now, let's play another round of charades.
 
Great examples, dmaul. And in addition to those I think it's a good idea to also cover the 68 year old ex-smoker with emphysema who requires 250k + worth of maintenance for the next 20 years. Let's not forget the 80 year old great grandma who needs a kidney transplant and the 70 year-old ex- tennis pro who needs a hip and double knee replacement. How about the influx of 65 year-olds who will eventually need a triple bypass at 150k a pop ? Or how about the cancers that have cost prohibitive treatments with only 20% survival rates after 6 months. Will those people get the chemo they "need" under your new system to distribute healthcare?

Lets also remember that in a very short time there will be more 65 + year-olds in our healthcare system than at any other time in history, being supported by the smallest ratio of taxpaying public in history. Keep demanding the best quality healthcare under a public system and let's see how fast the money can run out.

Let's also stop beating around the bush and admit that this cannot happen unless some sort of 'rationing' necessarily occurs by those beaurocrats that peruse the actuarials. And remember, Party members first, then according to one's need.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']What I mean is, hospitals are required to give you care you need to live. There are ways to get treatment for things like cancer and other conditions, through charity. Places like the Mayo Clinic will treat you even if you cannot afford it. They have special funds for that.[/QUOTE]
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[quote name='bmulligan']Great examples, dmaul. And in addition to those I think it's a good idea to also cover the 68 year old ex-smoker with emphysema who requires 250k + worth of maintenance for the next 20 years. Let's not forget the 80 year old great grandma who needs a kidney transplant and the 70 year-old ex- tennis pro who needs a hip and double knee replacement. How about the influx of 65 year-olds who will eventually need a triple bypass at 150k a pop ? Or how about the cancers that have cost prohibitive treatments with only 20% survival rates after 6 months. Will those people get the chemo they "need" under your new system to distribute healthcare?

Lets also remember that in a very short time there will be more 65 + year-olds in our healthcare system than at any other time in history, being supported by the smallest ratio of taxpaying public in history. Keep demanding the best quality healthcare under a public system and let's see how fast the money can run out.

Let's also stop beating around the bush and admit that this cannot happen unless some sort of 'rationing' necessarily occurs by those beaurocrats that peruse the actuarials. And remember, Party members first, then according to one's need.[/QUOTE]

Taxes will fix it. Tax 'em till they can't smoke. Tax 'em until vegetables or fruits are cheaper than McD's.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Taxes will fix it. Tax 'em till they can't smoke. Tax 'em until vegetables or fruits are cheaper than McD's.[/QUOTE]

The simpler solution is to just outlaw the behavior. After all - it's for the common good. and when everyone is paying for it, the majority gets to tell you how to live. There's much more at stake here than just healthcare. People like Myke know it, but rarely allude to it.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Taxes will fix it. Tax 'em till they can't smoke. Tax 'em until vegetables or fruits are cheaper than McD's.[/QUOTE]

I think anyone realistic will admit, kidding aside, taxes will have to go up.

But also costs need to come down both in health care and in other areas of wasteful government spending. A society that can't take care of it's citizen's health isn't much of a society. People need to put their heads together and figure out a way to make it work better.

And prevention and promoting health has to be a big part of it. Heck, I have no problem with a system that requires more pay in from patients with illnesses related to their bad choices such as smoking, obesity (not caused by biological problems) etc. etc. Anything we can do to get more people to take care of themselves and not be a drain on the system.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']The simpler solution is to just outlaw the behavior. After all - it's for the common good. and when everyone is paying for it, the majority gets to tell you how to live. There's much more at stake here than just healthcare. People like Myke know it, but rarely allude to it.[/QUOTE]

Nah. You can't outlaw shoveling garbage into your body for 50 years any more than enforcing personal responsibility.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Nah. You can't outlaw shoveling garbage into your body for 50 years any more than enforcing personal responsibility.[/QUOTE]

Nope all you can do is encourage it. Teach health more in schools, have more out reach efforts. Make sure at least healthy food is not taxed in states that still have sales tax on food. Offer breaks on premiums (or taxes in a universal system) to people who keep their body fat %, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. in the good ranges for their age, require yearly physicals paid in full by insurance to monitor these things and health in general.
 
My employer offers up to $30 a month for being healthy. It helps pay for healthy groceries and new running shoes. I think that works better than taxing the hell out of unhealthy things. The government could always offer tax breaks for having a good cholesterol level, BMI, and blood pressure.

And back to Castro and Cuba. I think it's pretty damn good that Cuba is only two places behind us while having a decades long near-crippling embargo in place.

Also, why doesn't anyone remember that we help put Castro into power? Look at many of the tyrants of the late 20th Century and we put the majority into power or allowed him to get there by supporting his unpopular rival. Castro, Hussein, Mobuto, Marcos, and Noriega were all funded and supported by us and then denounced when their atrocities came to light. You don't think our intelligence agencies knew about them before they became public? We happily supported them until they became a political liability.
 
You mean like how we always supported every major rebel group in every war?

Take off the tinfoil hat for this one please. America has always been the rebels, always in support of rebels. Our country truly BEGAN on rebellion. The people the country helped were rebels as well.
 
[quote name='AdultLink']You mean like how we always supported every major rebel group in every war?

Take off the tinfoil hat for this one please. America has always been the rebels, always in support of rebels. Our country truly BEGAN on rebellion. The people the country helped were rebels as well.[/QUOTE]
The tin foil hat? We overthrew Mossaddeq in Iran, and put in the Shah, a dictator. Yes, Iran used to have a parliamentary democracy. Not anymore. Then in Nicaragua there was the whole Iran-Contra thing, where the CIA trafficked drugs to America, and arms to Iran, in order to fund the Contras, who did some pretty bad shit. Would I call the Contras rebels? No, I would call them terrorists. Those are just a few examples. We don't support rebels. We support whoever can give us the most power. The people in power today are nothing like the people who founded this country. The people in power today are just scumbags. They don't care about anything other than themselves.
 
Any time there is a potential uprising of rebels, America will likely support it. Why? Because they (usually falsely) believe that if they help them get to power, the new regime will "remember" who helped them.
 
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