Don't stop... believin'... Hold on to that feeling...

We, as general citizens, and the majority of congress are too ignorant to understand the healthcare bill anyway. Its better to hold the debate behind closed doors as to not let ignorance get in the way of our leaders doing what's right for us.
 
If everyone wasn't so emotionally invested into Obama this wouldn't even be news. Does this honestly surprise any rational person?
 
[quote name='Magehart']If everyone wasn't so emotionally invested into Obama this wouldn't even be news. Does this honestly surprise any rational person?[/QUOTE]
What the hell does that even mean to be emotionally invested in a president?

This is truly groundbreaking stuff and a great find Bob. I'm fairly certain this is the first time any politician anywhere (much less a president) has broken a campaign promise. Your effort here will go far to help educate the populace and bring the debate back to the level of the good old days.
 
[quote name='speedracer']What the hell does that even mean to be emotionally invested in a president?

This is truly groundbreaking stuff and a great find Bob. I'm fairly certain this is the first time any politician anywhere (much less a president) has broken a campaign promise. Your effort here will go far to help educate the populace and bring the debate back to the level of the good old days.[/QUOTE]

"Open Administration" was one of the major running points for the Obama campaign. It was something that was supposed to set him apart from Bush. Instead, he's just another politician.
 
Why our chosen and ELECTED officials are even legally allowed to hold closed door talks of any kind for anything other than National Security issues is totally beyond me and unacceptable.

I am not going to waste time using this situation as an Obama bashing fest. But it should be a good lesson to anyone who votes for a Republican or Democrat with all kinds of radical (read: common sense) promises. Hopefully more Americans have learned by now that par for the course is what you get regardless.

But we are a nation of frogs already in the pot and the boiling bubbles are well underway. We can't be bothered with this stuff though, as long as the TV remote is water-proof and American Idol can be seen through the steam.
 
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What really makes me angry, is Pelosi's response when asked if Obama's campaign promises would come true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_3BHYmmmLg
True, if Obama really cared about his campaign promises, he would be using his power to at least do his best to ensure it was on CSPAN.
But what really gets me is how Pelosi just writes it off. She's admitting that politicians will do/say just about ANYTHING to get elected!

(I was tempted to put up the video of Glenn Beck talking about and showing that clip, because I knew it would piss people off. But instead I went with the Fox News, which won't be quite as bad.)
 
[quote name='myl0r']
(I was tempted to put up the video of Glenn Beck talking about and showing that clip, because I knew it would piss people off. But instead I went with the Fox News, which won't be quite as bad.)[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. There are people here that will hijack any thread that even mentions beck, or Fox News, or any commentator that rhymes with beck - and any channels that happen to be next to Fox News on any cable provider.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I wouldn't be so sure of that. There are people here that will hijack any thread that even mentions beck, or Fox News, or any commentator that rhymes with beck - and any channels that happen to be next to Fox News on any cable provider.[/QUOTE]
Oh there is no doubt in my mind that people will freak out about Fox News. That's a given in today's world. I was simply saying on a level of 1 to 10 of how badly people will freak out, it would be a 10.5 if I put up the Beck clip, but instead it will only be a 10.4999999 since it was just Fox News.

But that was all just in fun. The REAL point remains, regardless of who aired the clip, that Pelosi's response is just scary, and THAT is what we should be worried about.
 
Man Obama. There goes your chance to have started a whole war with a country who didn't even do anything to us to begin with. You could have said Norway was against HCR, and shown us some shitty photoshops to back it up. And the best thing of all - you wouldn't have had to have the only black guy in the room to do it! You could have done it yourself!

We totally could have gone to war with Norway!

Oh yeah, and when you come back and tell me "Bush didn't think he was lying," think about what you are really saying there.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']"Open Administration" was one of the major running points for the Obama campaign. It was something that was supposed to set him apart from Bush. Instead, he's just another politician.[/QUOTE]
Faux naivety is faux.
 
He couldn't get Congress to agree to his proposal to close Gitmo. Why would they agree to his campaign promise that everything would be on C-SPAN?
 
Where were you guys in 2004? Bush told all of us he was gonna pull out and then left us with a big nasty creampie. All of you right wingers took it like champs and asked when he was gonna call.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Where were you guys in 2004? Bush told all of us he was gonna pull out and then left us with a big nasty creampie. All of you right wingers took it like champs and asked when he was gonna call.[/QUOTE]
And I know in 2004 the Libs were up in arms about everything Bush did. Right wingers should have been up in arms about some of the crap he pulled.
Same goes for now. BOTH sides should be appalled by how our elected representatives are acting. I don't feel like they are representing us very well.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Where were you guys in 2004? Bush told all of us he was gonna pull out and then left us with a big nasty creampie. All of you right wingers took it like champs and asked when he was gonna call.[/QUOTE]

You are making one dire (yet common) mistake: Assuming most people to the right of your views support Bush.

Even so, can you post me the vid of Bush saying clearly and concisely 8 times in a row that he was gonna pull out? I'd like to see that.
 
[quote name='IRHari']He couldn't get Congress to agree to his proposal to close Gitmo. Why would they agree to his campaign promise that everything would be on C-SPAN?[/QUOTE]

You are making the false assumption that Obama even tried to get the negotiations to happen publicly and be aired by C-SPAN. He didn't; in fact, it's been reported that he supported the closed-doors negotiations. Robert Gibbs said in response when questioned about having the negotiations on C-SPAN that "the president wants a bill on his desk as soon as possible." Obviously that takes precedence in Obama's mind over a transparent process.

At least with Gitmo, although Obama has failed and will fail to close the prison at least in the foreseeable future, you can credit him with making a real attempt to do so, instead of saying one thing and doing another (also known as lying).
 
Consequence of not airing HCR talks on C-Span: Republicans have a "gotcha!" moment and trumpet up talk that "he's been lyin' for that thar years!" because some footage won't show up on a channel they never watch anyway. Further, even if they did, they'd get bored and not sit through it anyway, content to argue that HRC is socialistmarxistNazism as they uphold false soundbytes about Death Panels while ignoring the very real problems our health care system has.

Consequence of saying we have found WMDs: Gas prices explode, countries hate us, terrorists organizations rally troops to their cause, airway travel becomes increasingly annoying, deficit skyrockets, torture is instituted as proper protocol in American bases, enter a war with a country that never attacked us, removed troops from the country who does harbor one of the masterminds who attacked us, deletion of millions of e-mails regarding our interrogation practices that could incriminate people for war crimes, racial profiling, fear mongering, loss of innocent human life, loss of military human life, traumatic psychological disorders in surviving/overworked military men, wasting billions bombing a country that had no honest targets to bomb to begin with, toppling a dictator in the name of freedom to only further destabilize an already incendiary nation....

Oh yeah. Totally equal.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']You are making one dire (yet common) mistake: Assuming most people to the right of your views support Bush.[/QUOTE]
Well, they did vote for him twice.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Even so, can you post me the vid of Bush saying clearly and concisely 8 times in a row that he was gonna pull out? I'd like to see that.[/QUOTE]
Aside from the hilarity of the whole you reading into the description of a sex scene featuring George Bush and the electorate, there's the whole paradigm shift here we've somehow forgotten.

Bush didn't talk to pissants like you and me.
 
[quote name='Strell']Consequence of not airing HCR talks on C-Span: Republicans have a "gotcha!" moment and trumpet up talk that "he's been lyin' for that thar years!" because some footage won't show up on a channel they never watch anyway. Further, even if they did, they'd get bored and not sit through it anyway, content to argue that HRC is socialistmarxistNazism as they uphold false soundbytes about Death Panels while ignoring the very real problems our health care system has.[/QUOTE]

Republicans are complaining they are getting locked out of the negotiations.

Good and about damn time is all I have to say.

They had zero to contribute anyway.

This latest non controversy is just another pathetic attempt at ratfucking.
 
No Msut, you see, these aren't Republicans. They think like Republicans and they talk like Republicans but they aren't Republicans. Therefore you can't blame the decade of shit or anything else on them.

Because they say they aren't Republicans.

Sure, they watch Fox, the listen to Beck, and they go to tea parties. But that doesn't make them Republican. They agree with 95% of the platform and they voted for Bush (or would have if they were willing to drag their lazy carcasses off the couch). Can't we just respect that?

Because they say they aren't Republicans.
 
[quote name='Strell']Consequence of not airing HCR talks on C-Span: Republicans have a "gotcha!" moment and trumpet up talk that "he's been lyin' for that thar years!" because some footage won't show up on a channel they never watch anyway. Further, even if they did, they'd get bored and not sit through it anyway, content to argue that HRC is socialistmarxistNazism as they uphold false soundbytes about Death Panels while ignoring the very real problems our health care system has.[/QUOTE]

You are correct that Republicans have failed to address this issue for all the years they were in power. However, don't pooh-pooh direct lies by the president, of which this is one. I don't like it when the president lies to us, whether it's this one or others (and they have). You shouldn't either.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Sure, they watch Fox, the listen to Beck, and they go to tea parties. But that doesn't make them Republican. They agree with 95% of the platform and they voted for Bush (or would have if they were willing to drag their lazy carcasses off the couch). Can't we just respect that?

Because they say they aren't Republicans.[/QUOTE]

See, this is something I love. Instead of addressing the fact that Obama has been shown to be nothing more than the Liar in Chief, we get deflections onto Bush and such.

For the record, I do watch Fox. However, I rarely watch Fox News. Don't listen to Beck. Prefer Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard. Don't go to "tea parties". Never voted for Bush and have voted in every Presidential Election (and every local/state election) that I have been eligible to vote in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1eGN2ALXrQ
 
[quote name='UncleBob']See, this is something I love. Instead of addressing the fact that Obama has been shown to be nothing more than the Liar in Chief, we get deflections onto Bush and such.[/quote]
I was responding to thrust, who took dep's Bush baiting. I know better than to direct it to Bush because you'll start in with the inevitable rant.
For the record, I do watch Fox. However, I rarely watch Fox News. Don't listen to Beck. Prefer Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard. Don't go to "tea parties".
Click to expand...
Does someone care?
[quote name='elprincipe']However, don't pooh-pooh direct lies by the president, of which this is one. I don't like it when the president lies to us, whether it's this one or others (and they have). You shouldn't either.[/QUOTE]
Sure, dude didn't follow through on a campaign promise. But on the scale of all things great and small, I just don't see how this rates. How many people considered whether CSPAN would carry the health care debate "very important" or "important" when deciding to vote?

I'd say his utter bullshit on Afghanistan/Iraq/Geithner carries far more weight... like WHOA far more weight.
 
I'm simply sick of any criticism of the savior-in-chief immediately getting responded to by bringing up Bush. As if that's somehow a valid argument for why Obama not only lies but is failing on campaign promises that you all used as justification to vote for him.

"Obama is doing this" is always responded to with "Where were you when Bush did it?". Then there are several posts afterward that somehow blame Fox News and Beck for the Obama criticism. See the silliness yet?.
 
No, here's what it is.

Obama does something tiny, like doesn't rewind a VHS tape. Republicans lose their shit, usually in crybaby ways.

Our only response that can be heard over your whining is to stop and point out that Bush did heinous shit.

Then you guys cry some more about how "Look, so he preemptively struck a country and drove up terrorist recruitment rates, why are we focused about him and not Rewindgate?"

This continues until I pass out, each time hoping I'll wake up in a world where, perhaps, teapartydumbshittery has died because it was ridiculed into the ground, instead of upheld by a few fat people in suits because it brings in a ton of advertising.

Oh, be sure to come back and say that Iraq was a problem of intelligence, or bad hair days, or something, since apparently Bush and crew never lied, but Obama always does. Remember that consideration you guys screamed about? "Our guy wasn't lying!" But you can't grant it conversely?
 
The bottom line is I don't give a shit about Bush and neither should you. He isn't relevant right now. I know your leader is totally and completely obsessed with the past but that's a rather poor way of handling the now or justifying lies and deceit.

It's easy to spot true believers because they will defend bad behavior with other bad behavior.

I don't defend Bush for anything, so don't preface replies to my posts with "you guys". I fully expect Obama to do a lot of things that make me sick that you would applaud. That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether he lies and how much his supporters care that he does.

Do I happen to agree with a lot of things Republicans SAY? Maybe. But I am also wise enough to know that what they actually DO is almost never related to what they SAY. This is why I am not a Republican or a supporter of them. In fact, in many ways Republicans are philosophically worse than Democrats - simply because I'd rather be told I'm going to get fucked in the ass before doing so instead of dated, told I'm loved and then serial raped.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']The bottom line is I don't give a shit about Bush and neither should you. He isn't relevant right now. [/QUOTE]

Listen, I can't make the text big or bold enough to reflect how truly stupid these two statements are.
 
[quote name='Strell']Listen, I can't make the text big or bold enough to reflect how truly stupid these two statements are.[/QUOTE]

Ok then it should be incredibly easy for you to detail exactly how Bush is relevant to justifying Obama A)Breaking campaign promises and B) Outright lying.

If you can't, that's not a stupid statement.
 
I've already pointed out - twice in this thread, numerous times in others - that you guys seemingly cannot see the disconnect between screaming out OBAMA LIES against BUSH WAS TOTALLY A NICE GUY AND TRULY WANTED TO BAKE BROWNIES FOR EVERYONE.

But no, let's keep up the party bullshit, where I see every last mouthbreathing troglodyte saying things like "Obama has lied since the campaign." Really. You magically knew all of this, instead of the more obvious and simple answer that you're just a partisan addled whiner.

Want to know why Bush is relevant? Or, perhaps more correctly, his legacy? Terrorists groups are on the rise. Cheney is all over the damn news slamming everything Obama does. Karl Rove is a Fox News correspondent. Obama talking to kids is brainwashing, so let's bus them to a Bush rally. Glenn Beck rallies the retard 9/12 project and claims our country is 100% in danger while asking about birth certificates (which is really more of a double-whammy both sides kind of thing).

How naive do you have to do to A) suggest that we shouldn't be pissed for some period of time over the WORST modern US president in recent history, only to turn around and B) claim we can't talk poorly about him anymore? Hell, it's like getting out of a long relationship - you need some time to bitch and air out. I put up with eight years of a total incompetancy? I GET TO BITCH, and fuck you for telling me I can't, when I had gems like "Mission accomplished" and "Don't change the horse midway" down home country fried politics to assuage my rage at night.

So, again, hey. Let's equate not airing boring talks no one would have watched anyway to starting faulty wars. You guys are totally right - it's 100% ok. Except Bush didn't lie, he was misinformed, and truly believed in what he thought.

Obama is just being a jerk. A big mean 'ole jerk, in yer base steelin yer CSPANZ.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Ok then it should be incredibly easy for you to detail exactly how Bush is relevant to justifying Obama A)Breaking campaign promises and B) Outright lying.

If you can't, that's not a stupid statement.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem, he can't. He's got a one track mind.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']That's the problem, he can't. He's got a one track mind.[/QUOTE]

Oh man. You should have totally said "He's not playing with a full deck!" Or "He's full of doody!" or something else equally sounded-smart-in-your-stupid-head.
 
[quote name='Strell']Listen, I can't make the text big or bold enough to reflect how truly stupid these two statements are.[/QUOTE]

They just want to pretend the world was created anew or something, sure it has nothing to do with reality and is awfully convenient for the not-very-independents but then here we are.

Again the current flare up has to do with not letting Republicans cause delay anymore than they already have and isn't really an Obama thing, its not like he held a gun to congressional dems and ordered them to do this.

ThrustBob has zero credibility.
 
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Perhaps if Bush had been a little more "obsessed" with the past he could have used that knowledge to help him in the present. Then again, even if he'd actually gone to Vietnam, he could have just ignored those experiences like McCain apparently did and continued to push for war.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']For the record, I do watch Fox. However, I rarely watch Fox News. Don't listen to Beck. Prefer Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard. Don't go to "tea parties". Never voted for Bush and have voted in every Presidential Election (and every local/state election) that I have been eligible to vote in.[/quote]

Aren't you a huge Boortz fan?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']You are making one dire (yet common) mistake: Assuming most people to the right of your views support Bush.

Even so, can you post me the vid of Bush saying clearly and concisely 8 times in a row that he was gonna pull out? I'd like to see that.[/QUOTE]

Not pull out of Iraq. Pull out of your collective poontang.
 
why has this turned into a L/R, Obama/Bush bash fest?
The fact remains that Pelosi and Co., as well as Obama, are not interested in what WE THE PEOPLE want. They are only interested in giving us what they want us to have.
 
Giving the American people 100% what they want - without oversight or proper contemplation - sure worked well for the car companies and home loan services.

I'm not saying other people making the decision is necessarily better, but pretending that our collective nation is smart enough to truly understand its needs versus wants is hilarious.

I'm always pretty amazed how every discussion like this ultimately turns into some diatribe about personal freedom, and how we don't have it, and how we should have it, bla bla bla....
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']You are making one dire (yet common) mistake: Assuming most people to the right of your views support Bush.[/quote]

You mean support Bush NOW of course.

Honest mistake, right?

Even so, can you post me the vid of Bush saying clearly and concisely 8 times in a row that he was gonna pull out? I'd like to see that.
Click to expand...

You seem to have the memory of a hunk of blue cheese but anyway Bush and crew sold the war to the American people as being short in duration.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm always pretty amazed how every discussion like this ultimately turns into some diatribe about personal freedom, and how we don't have it, and how we should have it, bla bla bla....[/QUOTE]
Well since you mentioned it....
if the final bill contains in it the ability to fine/imprison people for not signing up for health care, then I would say it does become a personal freedom issue.
How can so many say that "Healthcare is a right" but say nothing about having to right to choose IF you want healthcare?
 
[quote name='myl0r']Well since you mentioned it....
if the final bill contains in it the ability to fine/imprison people for not signing up for health care, then I would say it does become a personal freedom issue.
How can so many say that "Healthcare is a right" but say nothing about having to right to choose IF you want healthcare?[/QUOTE]

No one from the federal government is going to drag you to a hospital if your appendix burst and you don't want to go.
 
[quote name='Msut77']You seem to have the memory of a hunk of blue cheese but anyway Bush and crew sold the war to the American people as being short in duration.[/QUOTE]

And now that the American public is saddled with this little bastard of a war, he leaves us to raise it all by ourselves.

That's what I meant by "pulling out"
 
[quote name='Msut77']No one from the federal government is going to drag you to a hospital if your appendix burst and you don't want to go.[/QUOTE]
Obviously I'm talking about healthcare plans. Of course I'm going to go to the Hospital if something like that happens. Buy why do I not get to decide if I want health insurance or not? It is my right to choose whether that is something I want.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Well since you mentioned it....
if the final bill contains in it the ability to fine/imprison people for not signing up for health care, then I would say it does become a personal freedom issue.
How can so many say that "Healthcare is a right" but say nothing about having to right to choose IF you want healthcare?[/QUOTE]
So when someone chooses not to pay for their own health care and then breaks their face and goes to the hospital, the hospital cannot choose whether or not to fix them. They're required by law and by oath.

It seems to me arguing against mandatory health care is arguing for the status quo, which is forcing doctors and hospitals to eat the costs. Is that fair?
 
[quote name='myl0r']Obviously I'm talking about healthcare plans. Of course I'm going to go to the Hospital if something like that happens. Buy why do I not get to decide if I want health insurance or not? It is my right to choose whether that is something I want.[/QUOTE]

Ever gotten into an accident with someone that didn't have insurance? That's why you don't get to choose whether you get health insurance. Stop being a dick and raising costs for the rest of us. Pay your share and we'll all cover each other. It's much better than the "Go fuck yourself plan" the Right has on the table.
 
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