Education in America

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Supposedly, America is behind many industrialized countries in math & science. My Dad disagrees. He tells me, "Yea, but look where people from other countries come to for higher education. Publicly funded colleges in the U.S."

Then he also says, "they also don't take into consideration that America is a country of immigrants where a good chunk of the kids don't speak the language that is taught in. This puts us behind because they have to catch up to learn English."

"Also, we have inner cities where kids are in gangs and broken homes and come to school once a week." Other countries don't have to deal with inner cities and immigrants like we do."

Do you agree with what my Dad says? I think we have immigrants, but it and the inner city kids that are behind don't impact the stats that much, do they? Surely other countries face the same issues? Is it even that big of an issue?

Another thing, It seems like all I ever hear about is how schools never have enough money. In fact, I can't think of a time when the schools have said they've had enough money. Are our schools really underfunded?
 
[quote name='2DMention']Then he also says, "they also don't take into consideration that America is a country of immigrants where a good chunk of the kids don't speak the language that is taught in. This puts us behind because they have to catch up to learn English." [/QUOTE]

Tell your dad to shut the fuck up.

He's a disconnected dumbbell.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Tell your dad to shut the fuck up.

He's a disconnected dumbbell.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Just because you can't speak the language doesn't mean you can't do math. I can see where he might have a point though.
 
Our government-ran educational system sucks. We pay more money and get worse results than most any other country. Kind of like our health care system. ;)
 
He's mixing up two things.

Our public schools (K-12) lag behind many other countries. But our university system is still the best in the world as a whole, so sure talent young scholars come here for college and grad school etc.

The rest of his rant is mostly ethnocentric and class biased crap. Every country has cities with poor areas etc. The US has more violence than most other industrialized nation but that's the main difference.

But at the same time you're father is partly right. A big part of our educational failings is just general societal failings of children in general. Few kids are going to do good in school if they don't have good parenting that's keeping them in school, getting their homework done, instilling the importance of a good work ethic etc. etc. And that's compounded by things like pressure and temptation of getting involved in the drug market in urban areas etc. etc.

But all that "ghetto" crap is just bias as schools are just as bad in poor rural areas that don't have the crime, violence, drug gangs etc. etc. than urban areas do. So it's really broken families and poor parenting causing a lot of the problem, with the other piece being a poor educational system lacking standards for teaching (merit evaluations), too much focus on teaching to standardized tests etc. etc.
 
[quote name='2DMention']Supposedly, America is behind many industrialized countries in math & science. My Dad disagrees. He tells me, "Yea, but look where people from other countries come to for higher education. Publicly funded colleges in the U.S."[/QUOTE]
Public schools suck because funding is tied to property taxes and only pay for schools their respective community. This means rich town equals well funded schools. Example: a town in MA just spent about $225 million on a new high school; Boston is thinking about closing 6 schools in predominanantly low income black areas. As described by another poster, this is pretty much the status quo for k-12 public education in the country.

As far as foreign students, most of them are not poor, well educated to begin with, and go to private universities. Just because they receive public funds does not mean that most of their money comes from it. Most private colleges are funded through endowment.

Then he also says, "they also don't take into consideration that America is a country of immigrants where a good chunk of the kids don't speak the language that is taught in. This puts us behind because they have to catch up to learn English."
Click to expand...
Have him define a "good chunk." A vast majority of kids in school are home grown Americans.

"Also, we have inner cities where kids are in gangs and broken homes and come to school once a week." Other countries don't have to deal with inner cities and immigrants like we do."
Click to expand...
Have him define inner cities. That's code for black people. Also, the UK has a fairly large under-class of citizens as well as an immigrant population.

Do you agree with what my Dad says? I think we have immigrants, but it and the inner city kids that are behind don't impact the stats that much, do they? Surely other countries face the same issues? Is it even that big of an issue?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your dad is a racist and a xenophobe.

Another thing, It seems like all I ever hear about is how schools never have enough money. In fact, I can't think of a time when the schools have said they've had enough money. Are our schools really underfunded?
Click to expand...
You can pump $200 million into a school, but if you don't address the environment for the students when they're out of school, it's worthless. You need to address the socio-economic issues within that community.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Our government-ran educational system sucks. We pay more money and get worse results than most any other country. Kind of like our health care system. ;)[/QUOTE]

Penn State isn't that bad bro, c'mon.
 
American schools do not push kids as hard as schools in some other countries (mostly Asian countires). They learn our "high school" science and math content earlier and are learning more in-depth stuff when they get to high school age. However, don't be fooled by statistics... for example, many people that we would consider "repairmen" or "technicians" are classified as "engineers" in China.
 
[quote name='2DMention']I agree. Just because you can't speak the language doesn't mean you can't do math. I can see where he might have a point though.[/QUOTE]
Math is one thing that transcends language. To put it simply, 2+2 = 4 no matter where you're from.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']American schools do not push kids as hard as schools in some other countries (mostly Asian countires). They learn our "high school" science and math content earlier and are learning more in-depth stuff when they get to high school age. However, don't be fooled by statistics... for example, many people that we would consider "repairmen" or "technicians" are classified as "engineers" in China.[/QUOTE]
I read something recently about engineering students in China. Basically it said that unless they get into the best schools, they'll never find work as engineers because they won't have the skills they need after graduating from a lower tier school. I would imagine that here in the U.S. even going to lower tier public school for engineering would result in someone having at least a decent grasp of engineering.
 
[quote name='Clak']Math is one thing that transcends language. To put it simply, 2+2 = 4 no matter where you're from.[/QUOTE]

If you only want to teach people 2+2=4, then you're good to go...
However, most math goes beyond that.

Here, assuming you don't actually know any French:
http://www.mathematiquesfaciles.com/bilance1-ce2-nombres-de-0-a-1-000_2_55436.htm

A really, really basic Math test. After four years of high school French, I got an 80.5% (messed up several of the written out numbers).

(By the way, the big yellow button at the bottom grades your test. The regular looking gray button is for printing the test.)
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']They learn our "high school" science and math content earlier and are learning more in-depth stuff when they get to high school age.[/QUOTE]

So... they're learning American college level stuff in their middle and high schools? And then they come to America with their complete college level education and just solve a bunch of problems and write a bunch of papers on stuff they already knew to get an American degree?

But if foreign K-12 is so much more advanced than US K-12, what does foreign college cover? Because foreign K-12 already covered US college stuff, didn't it?
 
Alright Chu I spent the last 15 minutes googling multiple variations of 'Digital Press' 'Jews' 'Anti-Semitism' and couldn't find anything.

Can you give examples? What are they and what do they do and what did they do that was blatantly anti-semitic. I'd think that if it was so blatant it would be the first thing that came up when you google it.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Alright Chu I spent the last 15 minutes googling multiple variations of 'Digital Press' 'Jews' 'Anti-Semitism' and couldn't find anything.

Can you give examples? What are they and what do they do and what did they do that was blatantly anti-semitic. I'd think that if it was so blatant it would be the first thing that came up when you google it.[/QUOTE]

...?
 
[quote name='IRHari']Alright Chu I spent the last 15 minutes googling multiple variations of 'Digital Press' 'Jews' 'Anti-Semitism' and couldn't find anything.

Can you give examples? What are they and what do they do and what did they do that was blatantly anti-semitic. I'd think that if it was so blatant it would be the first thing that came up when you google it.[/QUOTE]

Talk about going off topic.
 
your dad is a racist bigot and it's your duty to rid him of his ignorance.

problem with education in the U.S is that most people don't know any better about the necessity of a college education, and that it's still too expensive. The only way to cure this problem is for our government to mandate and pay for all students to attend colleges. High school is simply no longer enough.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']...?[/QUOTE]

Chuplayer's signature indicates he's boycotting Digital Press for blatant anti-semitism. If it was so blatant (i don't even know what digital press is) you'd think google would find the examples pretty quickly.

[quote name='Chuplayer']
Talk about going off topic. [/QUOTE]

Don't worry about it, this happens all the time on vs. forum. Answer the questions please.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']So... they're learning American college level stuff in their middle and high schools? And then they come to America with their complete college level education and just solve a bunch of problems and write a bunch of papers on stuff they already knew to get an American degree?

But if foreign K-12 is so much more advanced than US K-12, what does foreign college cover? Because foreign K-12 already covered US college stuff, didn't it?[/QUOTE]

They're K-12 isn't much different. In hour schools we have calculus, physics, AP (college level) classes etc. just like they do.

The difference is a much larger percentages of kids in other countries are achieving highly in the maths and sciences and taking these advanced classes. So they're more prepared to go on and major in things like engineering etc.

Where as here many fewer take them in high school, and a lot don't even take them in college as many majors are light on math and science. I only had college algebra in college, and took Geology as my only science course, as I majored in journalism.

Made the stats classes in grads school a pain since I had a ton of catching up to do on math.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They're K-12 isn't much different. In hour schools we have calculus, physics, AP (college level) classes etc. just like they do.

The difference is a much larger percentages of kids in other countries are achieving highly in the maths and sciences and taking these advanced classes. So they're more prepared to go on and major in things like engineering etc.

Where as here many fewer take them in high school, and a lot don't even take them in college as many majors are light on math and science. I only had college algebra in college, and took Geology as my only science course, as I majored in journalism.

Made the stats classes in grads school a pain since I had a ton of catching up to do on math.[/QUOTE]

I lol'd. Sadly, many people would read that and not think anything of it. "A lot" should have been written as one word though. Perhaps it was just one of my Elementary School teachers who absolutely hated "alot' with a passion....
 
The problem is that there is a growing trend in public education not to teach students, but to foster their self-esteem. Grade inflation is rampant and many schools are even trying to do away with grades altogether because giving a kid a "C" is considered borderline child abuse. As a result, we are churning out students that know absolutely nothing but are damn proud of it.
 
[quote name='dopa345']The problem is that there is a growing trend in public education not to teach students, but to foster their self-esteem. Grade inflation is rampant and many schools are even trying to do away with grades altogether because giving a kid a "C" is considered borderline child abuse. As a result, we are churning out students that know absolutely nothing but are damn proud of it.[/QUOTE]

That isn't just kids. It's politicians. It's the people.

Take Palin. Doesn't read a newspaper and proud of it. Makes up words and literally thinks that makes her Shakespeare. And all the fanny-packers are happy to woo-woo her right along.
 
Start teaching kids excel at age 6.

You won't even really need math class after that.
 
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I remember the Elementary Statistics class I had, he was more concerned with us knowing what the asnwers meant rather than really how to work the problems. Which makes sense in a way, you'll use software in work to do the problems, but if you tell your boss "We reject the null hypothesis" they'll look at you like you've lost your mind.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']I lol'd. Sadly, many people would read that and not think anything of it. "A lot" should have been written as one word though. Perhaps it was just one of my Elementary School teachers who absolutely hated "alot' with a passion....[/QUOTE]
[quote name='http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alot']
This spelling of ‘a lot’ (in the adverbial senses of "very much or many" and "often") is frequent in informal writing but not generally accepted by arbiters of English usage. Others view it as a legitimate contraction, akin to a and gain forming again, or all and though, combining to form although.

  • 1993, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English calls alot “substandard” and notes that it is “increasingly found in Informal correspondence and student writing” and “has as yet received no sanction in print except on the op-ed and sports pages.” [1] [2]

  • 1996, The American Heritage Book of English Usage states that “alot is still considered an error in print” but notes that standard words have formed by fusion of the article with a noun, such as another and awhile, and suggests the possibility that alot may like them eventually enter standard usage. [3]

  • 2004, Jack Lynch Guide to Grammar and Style (entry dated 2004) flatly states this to be a two-word expression. [4]

  • 2004, The Cambridge Guide to English Usage also compares alot to awhile. It states alot to be “still regarded as nonstandard” and notes 50 appearances in the British National Corpus, “almost entirely from three sources: e-mail, TV autocue data, and TV newscripts.” It suggests that some usages of alot in typewritten use are to be considered merely typos of the standard a lot though its appearance in handwriting and typescript is “more significant, as the shadow of things to come.” [5][/quote]
Hold strong, people-who-say-a-lot-not-alot.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']He's mixing up two things.

Our public schools (K-12) lag behind many other countries. But our university system is still the best in the world as a whole, so sure talent young scholars come here for college and grad school etc.

The rest of his rant is mostly ethnocentric and class biased crap. Every country has cities with poor areas etc. The US has more violence than most other industrialized nation but that's the main difference.

But at the same time you're father is partly right. A big part of our educational failings is just general societal failings of children in general. Few kids are going to do good in school if they don't have good parenting that's keeping them in school, getting their homework done, instilling the importance of a good work ethic etc. etc. And that's compounded by things like pressure and temptation of getting involved in the drug market in urban areas etc. etc.

But all that "ghetto" crap is just bias as schools are just as bad in poor rural areas that don't have the crime, violence, drug gangs etc. etc. than urban areas do. So it's really broken families and poor parenting causing a lot of the problem, with the other piece being a poor educational system lacking standards for teaching (merit evaluations), too much focus on teaching to standardized tests etc. etc.[/QUOTE]

winner winner chicken dinner.

education is far more than what happens from 8AM-3PM, and those whose families don't help foster and develop that education are those who are far more likely to fall behind early on. private education vs public is a spurious differentiation, as those who spend the money to send their children to private school are more likely to be those who invest more than money (e.g., time, oversight, assistance, encouragement) in their child's education. If you put those same families in public school, they're still going to behave in largely similar ways outside of classtime - which is one of the key factors in fostering intellectual development.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']
[/LIST]
Hold strong, people-who-say-a-lot-not-alot.[/QUOTE]
It's also wrong according to most every spell checker I've ever used.:)

But i'm sure it happens alot a lot.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']winner winner chicken dinner.

education is far more than what happens from 8AM-3PM, and those whose families don't help foster and develop that education are those who are far more likely to fall behind early on. private education vs public is a spurious differentiation, as those who spend the money to send their children to private school are more likely to be those who invest more than money (e.g., time, oversight, assistance, encouragement) in their child's education. If you put those same families in public school, they're still going to behave in largely similar ways outside of classtime - which is one of the key factors in fostering intellectual development.[/QUOTE]
Or hire the best tutors money can buy.:applause:
 
[quote name='Clak']Or hire the best tutors money can buy.:applause:[/QUOTE]
Also, private schools can pick and choose which students to accept. Public schools take everyone. Huge difference.;)
 
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