Employee Choice Bill: Controversy of the Day?

fatherofcaitlyn

fatherofcaitlyn

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I heard this mentioned on Rachel Maddow last night and Squawk Box this morning.

Is there anything to it or is it just another distraction while the house continues to burn to the ground or both?
 
Tough call; depends on which corrupt group you'd rather have in charge: corporations or the mafia. I'll settle for the latter because it helps out workers more than corporations historically have.
 
I'm of two minds about it as well.

On the one hand I hate seeing workers exploited and unions can guard against that.

On the other you get people in relatively unskilled jobs getting paid too much and making companies struggle due to unions driving wages up over time. And I also honestly don't feel that sorry for workers who get fucked because they get fired from an unskilled job and can't find another as they never bothered to get an eductation or learn a skiled trade. They choose that path of limited and insecure career options.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I'm of two minds about it as well.

On the one hand I hate seeing workers exploited and unions can guard against that.

On the other you get people in relatively unskilled jobs getting paid too much and making companies struggle due to unions driving wages up over time. And I also honestly don't feel that sorry for workers who get fucked because they get fired from an unskilled job and can't find another as they never bothered to get an eductation or learn a skiled trade. They choose that path of limited and insecure career options.[/quote]

What if you required edumacation to stay in the union?
 
Actually, that's exactly what my father did, now he's fucked. I kept saying he'd never find another high paying job like he had, while having basically no skills.

Funny thing is, he thought i'd be better off getting a job at the same place, rather than going to college. Good call dad.
 
Yeah, requiring education to stay in the union is silly.

Are people going to get an education so they can work in the factory and be in the union? No, that's absurd.

It's just a tough call on whether unions are a good thing, or if they're causing too much problems for the benefit of protecting people who sowed their own oats by not getting an education or learning a skilled trade that would make them marketable.
 
No one ever asks if accumulation of capital is a good thing, we just take it for granted. Even though there's a smoldering shitpile of capital accumulation's ability to destroy everything in its path unfolding in the news every day.

So why does we have this absolutely obtuse view of the accumulation of labor? It's as if we prefer the royal class in America.

Yea, I've been in a union in a state with no right to work laws. It sucked. I became a steward and did something about it. Somehow everyone turns into a spineless turd that can't affect shit when we're talking about unions. I don't get it.

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']What if you required edumacation to stay in the union?[/QUOTE]
Some do. Many electrician unions (for example) require new members to go to CC and get a cert or degree in a program they have set up with the school. It's good for the now-more-highly skilled employee, the company (whose worker is educating him/herself on his/her dime, increasing skill and productivity), and good for the union to have better educated craftsmen in its ranks. I know a guy that started out like that and ended up going to uni to get his EE degree. But you don't hear about those stories.

Unions = bad.

Carry on.
 
It's one of those union wet dreams, they claim it allows companies to scare workers away from unionization before the secret ballots when allowing card counts instead will allow unions to bully workers into signing up.

Personally my biggest problem with unions is they value time worked above all else. Someone who has been employed 20 years is nearly impossible to fire, even if they happen to be the least productive, most overpaid, gloomiest person in the building.

I've noticed this puts people in a bit of a bind, either they can leave their job of 10-20 years for something that may be more enjoyable or better paying and lose all their seniority and security or they can stay put at the same old boring, repetitive job, which makes them more pissed off as they count down the days till retirement. It's really sad how many people I know who choose option B.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Unions = bad.

Carry on.[/quote]

Everybody caught I used the term "edumacation" instead of "education", right?

I don't have any problems with unions. My dad has worked in one for 30 years. He doesn't know algebra, makes enough money to make dmaul pull out his hair, can disassemble and reassemble a 600 MW generator in his sleep and keeps his job despite having brain surgery and his prostate removed in the last 5 years. If he took a job requiring a degree, he would either work more hours or have been let go for health reasons already. Then again, he is probably the exception, not the rule.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I heard this mentioned on Rachel Maddow last night and Squawk Box this morning.

Is there anything to it or is it just another distraction while the house continues to burn to the ground or both?[/quote]

This is a huge issue for the unions and those Democrats. This basically allows a union to form without any notice to a company. Imagine you go to work one day to find out your in a union and have no say so in the matter, now the union has a 3rd party submit a contract that is legal and binding and within a year your paying dues or your job ends up overseas. Thats how its going to happen to a lot of manufacturing jobs. I understand this is mainly aimed at Walmart and other retailers, with all those uneducated workers they have the union ranks will swell. Just look at how many unionized manufacturing jobs have left our country since NAFTA took root, it will get worse when this passes. Those jobs were the heart and soul of middle class America for the past 50yrs. Most unions these days are unnecessary and need to be broken up, just ask GM and Ford.
 
[quote name='gindias']This is a huge issue for the unions and those Democrats. This basically allows a union to form without any notice to a company. Imagine you go to work one day to find out your in a union and have no say so in the matter, now the union has a 3rd party submit a contract that is legal and binding and within a year your paying dues or your job ends up overseas. Thats how its going to happen to a lot of manufacturing jobs. I understand this is mainly aimed at Walmart and other retailers, with all those uneducated workers they have the union ranks will swell. Just look at how many unionized manufacturing jobs have left our country since NAFTA took root, it will get worse when this passes. Those jobs were the heart and soul of middle class America for the past 50yrs. Most unions these days are unnecessary and need to be broken up, just ask GM and Ford.[/quote]

If Wal-Mart workers were to unionize, how would their jobs be sent overseas?
 
[quote name='gindias']Those jobs were the heart and soul of middle class America for the past 50yrs. Most unions these days are unnecessary and need to be broken up, just ask GM and Ford.[/QUOTE]

Nobody ever thinks of the unemployed milk men. They've been out of work for decades.
 
they wouldn't be sent overseas. prices at walmart would go up, less people would shop there and profits would go down, and stores would shut down, sending jobs to the grave.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If Wal-Mart workers were to unionize, how would their jobs be sent overseas?[/quote]
Thats the target from what I have been reading the last year or so, but it opens the door for other sectors as well, including that damn milk delivery union. Walmart jobs dont pay for mortgages the "blue collar" jobs in steel and production plants do. I bought a house working in a production plant for years then when I recieved my degree went into management. I know how a union would devistate my company and my future there.

These jobs can be done just as easy in india, china or even mexico as we do here for a lot less. Unions do force the hands of many companies to take those jobs offshore. The walmart jobs are a joke, there is a much larger picture here. Retail is the excuse they are using to blackmail the rest of corporate america.
 
[quote name='gindias']Thats the target from what I have been reading the last year or so, but it opens the door for other sectors as well, including that damn milk delivery union. Walmart jobs dont pay for mortgages the "blue collar" jobs in steel and production plants do. I bought a house working in a production plant for years then when I recieved my degree went into management. I know how a union would devistate my company and my future there.

These jobs can be done just as easy in india, china or even mexico as we do here for a lot less. Unions do force the hands of many companies to take those jobs offshore. The walmart jobs are a joke, there is a much larger picture here. Retail is the excuse they are using to blackmail the rest of corporate america.[/quote]

Wouldn't tariffs, higher fuel prices or a plummeting currency value detract from offshoring frenzy?
 
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