Explain, To Me, A Video Card (And Everything Else, For That Matter.)

False Hope

False Hope

CAGiversary!
Oi. I'm just now delving into the world of PC gaming, and I'm looking for a video card. Before you refer me to another thread, consider that I don't want an opinion on which card to buy, but, rather, to have them explained to me. When looking at video cards (specifically on NewEgg), I saw a bunch of specs, most of which I have fuck-all of an idea what they mean (What is DDR, how do MHz affect it, etc.). So, if anyone finds they have the time or patience, please explain to me the particular specs that I need to know. For one, I don't want to be suckered into paying more than something is worth, and, for 2, I want to know why there are 32-MB cards selling at the same price as 128-MB. Also, if you will, go over even the details which you may find unnecessary when dealing with most video cards. (Such as little features that only a few cards may have, but most won't.) I attempted to search the internet for a guide on the things, but had no success. At least, not without thousands of "WE'VE GOT GREAT DEALS ON 'VIDEO CARDS' HERE!" sites coming first.

On a side note: Like I said, I am just now delving in to the PC gaming world. Right now, I am most focused on acquiring a new video card and more RAM, since, to my awareness, these are two of the most, if not the most, essential things to upgrade. Especially considering that my computer only supports 24-bits at the moment, and only has 128-MB of RAM. Either way, if you are able to suggest upgrading anything more (either out of necessity or simply for better performance), then, by all means, do so. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Well when looking at a video card, you have to look at all its features to determine how powerful it is, not just how the number of MB.

For example, a 128 MB Geforce FX 5200 isn't near as good as 128 MB Geforce 6800.

I've been a PC gamer for quite a while but I don't really get into all the specs and what they mean. I usually look at reviews and go from there.

Every once in a while, Nvidia and ATI release a new line of cards. They make a watered down budget version, a midrange version and powerful, expensive version.

Watered down budget version - My general rule is stay away from these cards. They lack many features that gamers want in their video card. Example: LE, XT, MX usually mean cheapo version.

Midrange version - This is where I usually shop. It's the best bang for the buck. They usually just a little slower than the expensive, powerful card. For example, the Geforce 6800 has 12 pipes to the Geforce 6800 GT's 16 pipes.

Expensive, powerful version - By all means go for the best card you can get if your wallet can afford it because your computer will be set for a year or 2. GT and Ultra are the top dogs names for Nvidia I believe unless that has changed recently.

Basically I would check out reviews on cnet.com and other sites to see what card is right for you. Make sure you have the slot in your PC (AGP or PCI express) and that you have a good enough power supply unit (PSU). Most new video cards are requiring close to 400 watts.
 
[quote name='Swingman']Well when looking at a video card, you have to look at all its features to determine how powerful it is, not just how the number of MB.

For example, a 128 MB Geforce FX 5200 isn't near as good as 128 MB Geforce 6800.

I've been a PC gamer for quite a while but I don't really get into all the specs and what they mean. I usually look at reviews and go from there.

Every once in a while, Nvidia and ATI release a new line of cards. They make a watered down budget version, a midrange version and powerful, expensive version.

Watered down budget version - My general rule is stay away from these cards. They lack many features that gamers want in their video card. Example: LE, XT, MX usually mean cheapo version.

Midrange version - This is where I usually shop. It's the best bang for the buck. They usually just a little slower than the expensive, powerful card. For example, the Geforce 6800 has 12 pipes to the Geforce 6800 GT's 16 pipes.

Expensive, powerful version - By all means go for the best card you can get if your wallet can afford it because your computer will be set for a year or 2. GT and Ultra are the top dogs names for Nvidia I believe unless that has changed recently.

Basically I would check out reviews on cnet.com and other sites to see what card is right for you. Make sure you have the slot in your PC (AGP or PCI express) and that you have a good enough power supply unit (PSU). Most new video cards are requiring close to 400 watts.[/QUOTE]

Excellent. That's a great start. Although, that raises more questions. For one: How do I determine what slot I have, and what are "pipes"?
 
[quote name='False Hope']Excellent. That's a great start. Although, that raises more questions. For one: How do I determine what slot I have, and what are "pipes"?[/QUOTE]

Don't worry about pipes. I was just using an example of a difference between a midrange and expensive card. You only need to know 3 things about a video card.

1)How good is it (read reviews through websites or magazines in book store)
http://www.cnet.com
http://www.tomshardware.com (like above poster mentioned)
http://www.firingsquad (like above poster mentioned)

2)what slot it will need (AGP, PCI express)

3) Power Supply Unit requirement - General rule: make sure you have at least 350 watts for most cards. 450 watts if buying top of the line. If buying a new PSU, 450 watts at least just to allow for extra room and always buy top brands because cheap PSU's can hurt your PC. You can figure out what PSU you currently have by looking at computers specs (invoice maybe or search company's website) or by opening up the case and looking at the side of your PSU (easy to find since the power cord plugs into it).

As for how to determine what slot you have, you can check your invoice possibly or go to the website where you purchased the computer and do a search for you computer. Or just type what you have on here and someone could tell you what slot you have on it (ie HP Pavilion d4100y, Dell Dimension E310, etc). New ones will most likely have PCI express and older ones AGP 8x.

Once you figure out what card you want, http://www.newegg.com usually has good deals on computer hardware. If you need a PSU, they sell those as well. To find out PSU requirements for the particular video card you choose, go to http://www.nvidia.com or http://www.ati.com depending on the brand of card.

Maybe if you can figure out if you have PCI-express or AGP slot and how much you want to spend then we can give you recommendations on video cards that you might want to check out.
 
Watch out for the power supply requirements, as the above poster mentioned... My brother's 6600GT required 350watts and his power supply was only 350 watts. He said his computer turned on, made a loud noise and then shut off 5 seconds later.

If you don't have ample power for the new GPU, you'll have to upgrade your PSU (another $50-100 for a good one).

Also, when you do decide, check out newegg.com for all your PC shopping needs.:)
 
[quote name='Vinny']Watch out for the power supply requirements, as the above poster mentioned... My brother's 6600GT required 350watts and his power supply was only 350 watts. He said his computer turned on, made a loud noise and then shut off 5 seconds later.

If you don't have ample power for the new GPU, you'll have to upgrade your PSU (another $50-100 for a good one).

Also, when you do decide, check out newegg.com for all your PC shopping needs.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='GreenMonkey']Specs mean nothing. # of MB on the card means virtually nothing. Check benchmarks and price, that's what matters.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='sketch226']I would say the best thing to do when shopping for a video card is to ignore all the specs. They mean very little and can sometimes be misleading. The best thing to do is go to Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com) or FiringSquad (http://www.firingsquad.com/) and have a look at the game benchmarks and video card reviews.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Swingman']Don't worry about pipes. I was just using an example of a difference between a midrange and expensive card. You only need to know 3 things about a video card.

1)How good is it (read reviews through websites or magazines in book store)
http://www.cnet.com
http://www.tomshardware.com (like above poster mentioned)
http://www.firingsquad (like above poster mentioned)

2)what slot it will need (AGP, PCI express)

3) Power Supply Unit requirement - General rule: make sure you have at least 350 watts for most cards. 450 watts if buying top of the line. If buying a new PSU, 450 watts at least just to allow for extra room and always buy top brands because cheap PSU's can hurt your PC. You can figure out what PSU you currently have by looking at computers specs (invoice maybe or search company's website) or by opening up the case and looking at the side of your PSU (easy to find since the power cord plugs into it).

As for how to determine what slot you have, you can check your invoice possibly or go to the website where you purchased the computer and do a search for you computer. Or just type what you have on here and someone could tell you what slot you have on it (ie HP Pavilion d4100y, Dell Dimension E310, etc). New ones will most likely have PCI express and older ones AGP 8x.

Once you figure out what card you want, http://www.newegg.com usually has good deals on computer hardware. If you need a PSU, they sell those as well. To find out PSU requirements for the particular video card you choose, go to http://www.nvidia.com or http://www.ati.com depending on the brand of card.

Maybe if you can figure out if you have PCI-express or AGP slot and how much you want to spend then we can give you recommendations on video cards that you might want to check out.[/QUOTE]

Excellent. Thanks much for the help, everyone.

As for my computer, I have an "eMachines T1300". It's really more-so of a budget computer. I actually got the thing from my folks when they got a new one, so I can't complain, but it's really the bare minimum for all the new-age stuff. Considering that, I want to get optimum performance for a minimal price (of course). For a video card, I'm willing to give up about $100 (more or less) (yes, yes, I know I won't get much for so little), especially since I want to try and increase performance of my computer in other aspects as well. I wasn't originally going to ask for suggestions, but I'm open to them if someone understands the situation I'm in.

Also, I'll have to check on my PSU later. Of course, I'm on the computer right now, so I don't dare to take off the cover, but I'll look and get back to you about it.
 
[quote name='False Hope']
Also, I'll have to check on my PSU later. Of course, I'm on the computer right now, so I don't dare to take off the cover, but I'll look and get back to you about it.[/QUOTE]

Taking off the cover won't do anything so go ahead. I looked up you computer and it seems that you only PCI and not PCI Express or AGP. This limits your choice of card heavily. You cannot really get anything that will play modern games well.

The Nvidia FX5500 is pretty much the best card you can get. Do not go for the ones that are 256MB as that is something that won't help you at all and just stick with a 128MB one. Below is the card I suggest you get.

Here is the link to the cheapest price :
http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/store/Product_accessoriesx.asp?catalog%5Fname=Video+Cards+%26+Adapters&category%5Fname=33g33c201s1008&product%5Fid=648851
But if you want to go with a store that is more known the here is the Newegg link : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133134
 
[quote name='dtarasev']Taking off the cover won't do anything so go ahead. I looked up you computer and it seems that you only PCI and not PCI Express or AGP. This limits your choice of card heavily. You cannot really get anything that will play modern games well.

The Nvidia FX5500 is pretty much the best card you can get. Do not go for the ones that are 256MB as that is something that won't help you at all and just stick with a 128MB one. Below is the card I suggest you get.

Here is the link to the cheapest price :
http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/store/Product_accessoriesx.asp?catalog%5Fname=Video+Cards+%26+Adapters&category%5Fname=33g33c201s1008&product%5Fid=648851
But if you want to go with a store that is more known the here is the Newegg link : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133134[/QUOTE]

Alright, I took of the cover and checked it out. My PSU is only 250, so how much more severely does that limit me?

Also, thanks for looking that stuff up, as well as for giving me the link. I really appreciate it, man. I have no idea what I'm doing with this stuff. What worries me, though, is that the main reason I want to uprade my computer is because it seems more profitable to upgrade my computer so I can play games on it (the original reason was because I wanted to play Oblivion without paying $400 for the monster that is X-Box 360 and I figured it'd just be better to go ahead and upgrade my PC so I could play some of the PC's other games as well). So, basically, am I unable to do that now? Is a game like Oblivion hoping too high?
 
OK, seriously, you need to get a whole new computer. The specs of your current machine are:

* Intel® Celeron® Processor 1.30 GHz (w/256KB)
* Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
* Intel® 810e Chipset
* 128 MB SDRAM
* 40 GB HDD 1
* 16x10x40x Max. CD-RW Drive; 3.5" 1.44MB FDD
* Intel® Direct AGP 3D (810e shared)
* AC '97 Audio
* 56K ITU v.92 ready Fax/Modem
* Keyboard, Mouse, Stereo Speakers
* 4 USB ports (2 on front), 1 Serial, 1 Parallel, 1 Midi/Game, 2 PS/2, Audio In & Out, Mic-In & Head Phone jack on front, 3 PCI slots (2 available)
* 7.25"w x 14.125"h x 16"d
* AOL 3 month membership included, click here for details

To play something as resource intensive as Oblivion you're going to need to upgrade your motherboard, power supply, CPU, GPU, RAM. Basically the whole computer. And because it is a custom built machine with most likely a custom case, custom slot for the power supply, etc. you are just better off building a whole new machine with standardized parts or buying a nice gaming PC from Alienware or Dell.

This is the unfortunate reality of PC gaming. To play the newest stuff, you have to upgrade your hardware. I am going to build a PC for a friend of mine that is going to cost around or over $1,300 (AMD X2, GeForce 7800 GTX, 1-2GB Dual Channel DDR). So if you don't have that kind of money, you should just wait for a premium X360 system to become available. With the power of the 360 we are bound to see more PC games come to the system. Even Call of Duty 2 runs better on the 360 than my high-end 6800 GT system.

Also, you will save money building the system yourself, but you will certainly not save yourself any headaches. Building a system, while putting it all together is fairly simple, requires a decent amount of technical knowledge, minor electrostatic precautions, and the will and sanity to deal with any problems that arise. Every part is going to be warrantied with it's own manufacturer so you may have to RMA (return/fix) them to their respective manufacturers.

With that being said, my expensive, but awesome, recommendations for manufactured PCs are:

Dell XPS 600 (for Intel fans and comes with a very nice 19" LCD): http://www1.us.dell.com/content/pro...&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn&~tab=specstab#tabtop

Alienware Aurora 7500 (for AMD fans):
http://alienware.com/product_detail...px?SysCode=PC-AURORA-7500&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT

Also, some basic specs for a custom PC:

Power supply: no less than 550 watts
Case: Anything that you like, make sure there is adequate (LARGE) vents in side, front and rear, preferably one 120mm fan slot and at least 2-3 80mm fan slots
CPU: AMD X2 processors are great
RAM: 1GB 400MHz DUAL CHANNEL, MINIMUM! Mushkin is a great brand, you can get 1GB of 400MHz DDR with 2-2-2-6-1T timings (lower is better, no need to know what it all means) for around $160 or less
Motherboard: MSI and Asus make great mobos, MAKE SURE YOU GET PCI-Express for your graphics architecture. AGP SUCKS.
Hard drives: Go with SATA. IDE is gay.
Optical (DVD/CD) drives: LITE-ON drives are wonderful
Video Card: 6800 GTs can be found for $300 or less but go for the 7800 GT or GTX for lasting, orgasmic power
Sound: Creative Audigy 2 ZS for around $60, great quality sound card
 
I really would advise not to put any money into that computer. Anything you can put into that computer at this point is already going to be way outdated.

In my opinion, you have 3 options,

1) Search high and low for a better used computer (one that can delay your need to buy new hardware) - Might not have much luck but something might be listed in classifieds.

2) Search for a refurbished PC on Dell's website or other places that might sell refurbished PCs.

3) Look for a good deal on a new computer.

If you can get that computer to play new games without spending as much as it would cost for a cheap new computer, then I'll be suprised.

When deciding between upgrading and replacing, you have to look at all you'll need to buy just to get decent results in gaming.

I'm guessing there isn't much memory in your computer unless you upgraded it recently. That might run around $30. Then you got to find a PCI card for probably about $5060. It's possible that requires a new PSU for about $40-50. In the end, you're down roughly $100 and you still won't find many (if any) new games that will play on your computer.

That's my opinion.
 
I also suggest getting a midrange card instead of extreme high end. Once you get better at building computers you can begin overclocking the card (Basically hacking the card so that it runs faster than recommended. Doing this WILL void warranty.) For example, the Geforce 6800 in the example above can be overclocked and have the extra 4 pipelines enabled to make it about the same as a Geforce 6800 GT.
 
[quote name='Logain8955']I also suggest getting a midrange card instead of extreme high end. Once you get better at building computers you can begin overclocking the card (Basically hacking the card so that it runs faster than recommended. Doing this WILL void warranty.) For example, the Geforce 6800 in the example above can be overclocked and have the extra 4 pipelines enabled to make it about the same as a Geforce 6800 GT.[/QUOTE]

Yet the 6800 GT can be clocked up to an Ultra...
 
[quote name='redgopher']OK, seriously, you need to get a whole new computer. The specs of your current machine are:

* Intel® Celeron® Processor 1.30 GHz (w/256KB)
* Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
* Intel® 810e Chipset
* 128 MB SDRAM
* 40 GB HDD 1
* 16x10x40x Max. CD-RW Drive; 3.5" 1.44MB FDD
* Intel® Direct AGP 3D (810e shared)
* AC '97 Audio
* 56K ITU v.92 ready Fax/Modem
* Keyboard, Mouse, Stereo Speakers
* 4 USB ports (2 on front), 1 Serial, 1 Parallel, 1 Midi/Game, 2 PS/2, Audio In & Out, Mic-In & Head Phone jack on front, 3 PCI slots (2 available)
* 7.25"w x 14.125"h x 16"d
* AOL 3 month membership included, click here for details

To play something as resource intensive as Oblivion you're going to need to upgrade your motherboard, power supply, CPU, GPU, RAM. Basically the whole computer. And because it is a custom built machine with most likely a custom case, custom slot for the power supply, etc. you are just better off building a whole new machine with standardized parts or buying a nice gaming PC from Alienware or Dell.

This is the unfortunate reality of PC gaming. To play the newest stuff, you have to upgrade your hardware. I am going to build a PC for a friend of mine that is going to cost around or over $1,300 (AMD X2, GeForce 7800 GTX, 1-2GB Dual Channel DDR). So if you don't have that kind of money, you should just wait for a premium X360 system to become available. With the power of the 360 we are bound to see more PC games come to the system. Even Call of Duty 2 runs better on the 360 than my high-end 6800 GT system.

Also, you will save money building the system yourself, but you will certainly not save yourself any headaches. Building a system, while putting it all together is fairly simple, requires a decent amount of technical knowledge, minor electrostatic precautions, and the will and sanity to deal with any problems that arise. Every part is going to be warrantied with it's own manufacturer so you may have to RMA (return/fix) them to their respective manufacturers.

With that being said, my expensive, but awesome, recommendations for manufactured PCs are:

Dell XPS 600 (for Intel fans and comes with a very nice 19" LCD): http://www1.us.dell.com/content/pro...&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn&~tab=specstab#tabtop

Alienware Aurora 7500 (for AMD fans):
http://alienware.com/product_detail...px?SysCode=PC-AURORA-7500&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT

Also, some basic specs for a custom PC:

Power supply: no less than 550 watts
Case: Anything that you like, make sure there is adequate (LARGE) vents in side, front and rear, preferably one 120mm fan slot and at least 2-3 80mm fan slots
CPU: AMD X2 processors are great
RAM: 1GB 400MHz DUAL CHANNEL, MINIMUM! Mushkin is a great brand, you can get 1GB of 400MHz DDR with 2-2-2-6-1T timings (lower is better, no need to know what it all means) for around $160 or less
Motherboard: MSI and Asus make great mobos, MAKE SURE YOU GET PCI-Express for your graphics architecture. AGP SUCKS.
Hard drives: Go with SATA. IDE is gay.
Optical (DVD/CD) drives: LITE-ON drives are wonderful
Video Card: 6800 GTs can be found for $300 or less but go for the 7800 GT or GTX for lasting, orgasmic power
Sound: Creative Audigy 2 ZS for around $60, great quality sound card[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Swingman']I really would advise not to put any money into that computer. Anything you can put into that computer at this point is already going to be way outdated.

In my opinion, you have 3 options,

1) Search high and low for a better used computer (one that can delay your need to buy new hardware) - Might not have much luck but something might be listed in classifieds.

2) Search for a refurbished PC on Dell's website or other places that might sell refurbished PCs.

3) Look for a good deal on a new computer.

If you can get that computer to play new games without spending as much as it would cost for a cheap new computer, then I'll be suprised.

When deciding between upgrading and replacing, you have to look at all you'll need to buy just to get decent results in gaming.

I'm guessing there isn't much memory in your computer unless you upgraded it recently. That might run around $30. Then you got to find a PCI card for probably about $5060. It's possible that requires a new PSU for about $40-50. In the end, you're down roughly $100 and you still won't find many (if any) new games that will play on your computer.

That's my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Holy shit. Well, thanks, guys. I'm going to hold off on anything for this computer 'till I can get something more recent. I'm afraid this may even go so far as to say I'll have to get a job...But either way, thanks for helping me not spend unnecessarily.

[quote name='Logain8955']I also suggest getting a midrange card instead of extreme high end. Once you get better at building computers you can begin overclocking the card (Basically hacking the card so that it runs faster than recommended. Doing this WILL void warranty.) For example, the Geforce 6800 in the example above can be overclocked and have the extra 4 pipelines enabled to make it about the same as a Geforce 6800 GT.

[quote name='redgopher']Yet the 6800 GT can be clocked up to an Ultra...[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I'm more interested in hearing about how this is done. Naturally, I'm not up to that point yet (or anywhere near it, for that matter), but is there perhaps a resource you guys could recommend for future reference?
 
Yeah, if you just wanna play Oblivion I would go with the Xbox. It would save you money. The CPU and video card alone for a computer to handle that game would run you over $700.


Regarding overclocking, first I would suggest against it until you get extremely familiar with computers. The way you over clock a video card is simple, depending on which one you have you simply get the correct software and just increase the memory speed(the speed at which data is written) and the overall clock speed of the card (how fast the data is processed). How you can well overclock depends on several factors but mainly on cooling, when you overclock you card heats up alot. Fans and third party cooling things will help out. Overclocking will vodi you warranty and it may damage your card if you over-do-it or the card overheats. I currently have my X600 XT overclocked byu about %15. Its not much but it adds as much as 10 frames per second in some games. In newer games it doesnt even matter because they are so demanding.

You can expect to get around 5% to 10% increase in speed if you overclock and if you have a very well cooled computer than you can go even higher. But then again the % is realative to your card. Getting %5 off a crappy card is diffrent than %5 from a high-end card. With certain card you can do even more like unclock more pipelines and such but that is rare.

You can also overclock your CPU but your motherboard BIOS must support it. Just like with video cards it can damage you CPU and will void you warranty. My Pentium 4 is overclocked from 2.8 Ghz to 3.1 Ghz not much becuase I only have stock cooling.

Ask some questions around here in their overclocking forums : Computing.net
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top