Father kills man who attempted to rape his daughter
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crunchb3rry
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Purple Flames
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In the same situation I'd have done the same thing.
I'd rather have seen him in jail, but either way that's one less sicko on the streets.
I'd rather have seen him in jail, but either way that's one less sicko on the streets.
mykevermin
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I don't see the issue here.
Could he have let go? Tough to say, given the mental composition of a person in that kind of immediate environment. Rational thinking ("i should let go, because this guy might die; I just want to subdue him and keep my family safe") gives way to impulsive thinking ("WHATTHE
AREYOUDOINGHEREDIEMOTHERERDIEMOTHERERSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPINGDIEALREADY!")
At least, that's how I imagine it.
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.
Could he have let go? Tough to say, given the mental composition of a person in that kind of immediate environment. Rational thinking ("i should let go, because this guy might die; I just want to subdue him and keep my family safe") gives way to impulsive thinking ("WHATTHE
AREYOUDOINGHEREDIEMOTHERERDIEMOTHERERSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPINGDIEALREADY!")At least, that's how I imagine it.
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.
thrustbucket
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Clearly this shows that the state did not recognize the suffering this poor man went through as a victim of his disease. He did not receive the proper counseling and appropriate psychological and medical help for his disease during, or following, his too-long stay in prison, or this wouldn't have happened.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.
Intent to harm, I see no problem with the legal right to kill them.
I know some people who live in really bad areas and it's basically if he hears something in the house he asks loudly who it is, if there's no response he grabs his shotgun. I don't blame him, you never know what some people are carrying.
I know some people who live in really bad areas and it's basically if he hears something in the house he asks loudly who it is, if there's no response he grabs his shotgun. I don't blame him, you never know what some people are carrying.
JolietJake
Banned
Well in this case, i don't think the guy was trying to kill him. He didn't shoot the guy or stab him or anything.
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't see the issue here.
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I see nothing about unreasonable force etc. here. He was restraining an intruder and the person died. Nothing wrong with that.
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I see nothing about unreasonable force etc. here. He was restraining an intruder and the person died. Nothing wrong with that.
Hunting down the attempted rapist three days later, finding him outside and shooting him, that's vigilante.
This is self defense, or even better, defense of your family, in your own home.
I can't see that there's even a question, except "Would I be able to do that if I needed to?"
I personally don't have much of a problem with "vigilante justice", as long as it is actual justice. But this isn't that.
Cheers to you Mr. McNally, and I hope you and your family are able to deal with this, both emotionally and socially, in a satisfactory fashion.
This is self defense, or even better, defense of your family, in your own home.
I can't see that there's even a question, except "Would I be able to do that if I needed to?"
I personally don't have much of a problem with "vigilante justice", as long as it is actual justice. But this isn't that.
Cheers to you Mr. McNally, and I hope you and your family are able to deal with this, both emotionally and socially, in a satisfactory fashion.
crunchb3rry
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The guy who shot his neighbors might be screwed because he shot two people who were fleeing from another person's property. The Castle Law (and other state by state variants) tend to require physical harm to you or a thirdparty on your own property (most states include cars in addition to homes). Some variants even allow you to defensively kill someone who attempts to do physical damage to your property instead of to a human being. So the paperboy who throws the newspaper on the porch too hard is fair game. 
mykevermin
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I was under the impression that Castle Laws require the state to bear the burden of proof, not the individual responsible.
There's a semi-ordeal in Ohio right now because they passed such a law that applies outside the home. Those opposed think people will get shot and then the perp will say "hey, prove they weren't threatening my life!"
There's a semi-ordeal in Ohio right now because they passed such a law that applies outside the home. Those opposed think people will get shot and then the perp will say "hey, prove they weren't threatening my life!"
HowStern
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[quote name='thrustbucket']Clearly this shows that the state did not recognize the suffering this poor man went through as a victim of his disease. He did not receive the proper counseling and appropriate psychological and medical help for his disease during, or following, his too-long stay in prison, or this wouldn't have happened.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/quote]
I think you're mocking people who actually think this way but I'm not sure.
I will tell you why this isn't a disease, though, just in case.
When you have a disease you will not know what you are doing is wrong. You will just do it in front of anyone/everyone and wonder why everyone gets outraged. This guy knew what he was doing was wrong and tried to hide it/get away with it, like most pedophiles, rapists, freaks, etc. He tried to sneak in, wearing latex gloves to not leave finger prints.
Pre-meditated and secretive, because he knew it was wrong.
And yeah this is self-defense like dtcarson said. Pulling a Charles Bronson would be vigilante justice.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/quote]
I think you're mocking people who actually think this way but I'm not sure.
I will tell you why this isn't a disease, though, just in case.
When you have a disease you will not know what you are doing is wrong. You will just do it in front of anyone/everyone and wonder why everyone gets outraged. This guy knew what he was doing was wrong and tried to hide it/get away with it, like most pedophiles, rapists, freaks, etc. He tried to sneak in, wearing latex gloves to not leave finger prints.
Pre-meditated and secretive, because he knew it was wrong.
And yeah this is self-defense like dtcarson said. Pulling a Charles Bronson would be vigilante justice.
crunchb3rry
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[quote name='mykevermin']I was under the impression that Castle Laws require the state to bear the burden of proof, not the individual responsible.
There's a semi-ordeal in Ohio right now because they passed such a law that applies outside the home. Those opposed think people will get shot and then the perp will say "hey, prove they weren't threatening my life!"[/quote]
Yeah, it varies quite a bit state-by-state. After 9/11, some states added that you can kill someone on an aircraft if they mean physical harm to anyone. I think because people wondered what would have happened to the "let's roll" guys if the plane landed okay and just decided to make it easy and let future hijacking heroes pass Go and collect $200.
There's a semi-ordeal in Ohio right now because they passed such a law that applies outside the home. Those opposed think people will get shot and then the perp will say "hey, prove they weren't threatening my life!"[/quote]
Yeah, it varies quite a bit state-by-state. After 9/11, some states added that you can kill someone on an aircraft if they mean physical harm to anyone. I think because people wondered what would have happened to the "let's roll" guys if the plane landed okay and just decided to make it easy and let future hijacking heroes pass Go and collect $200.
mykevermin
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[quote name='bigdaddy']You break into my house I have the right to kill you and chop your body up into 1 inch cubes if I like. It's my ing house.[/QUOTE]
no. no you sure don't. self-defense perhaps. But you do not have the right to be a masochist or a make-believe hero about it.
ing house.[/QUOTE]no. no you sure don't. self-defense perhaps. But you do not have the right to be a masochist or a make-believe hero about it.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Clearly this shows that the state did not recognize the suffering this poor man went through as a victim of his disease. He did not receive the proper counseling and appropriate psychological and medical help for his disease during, or following, his too-long stay in prison, or this wouldn't have happened.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/QUOTE]
Hee hee.
But yeah, anyer who tried this in my home would be dead.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/QUOTE]
Hee hee.
But yeah, any
er who tried this in my home would be dead.
bigdaddy
Banned
[quote name='mykevermin']no. no you sure don't. self-defense perhaps. But you do not have the right to be a masochist or a make-believe hero about it.[/quote]
Never said I was a hero, I hear something I grab two things, a flashlight and a 10 inch chef's knife. I will stab theer until he no longer can move, then call 911.
Just be happy I don't have a gone, he blow to bits. Don't break into my house. If more people killed theers there would be less break ins.
Never said I was a hero, I hear something I grab two things, a flashlight and a 10 inch chef's knife. I will stab the
er until he no longer can move, then call 911.Just be happy I don't have a gone, he blow to bits. Don't break into my house. If more people killed the
ers there would be less break ins.That's fine. You just can't mutilate the body after the fact.
And more killings wouldn't stop break ins too much, as most involve people breaking into a house where they know (or are pretty sure) no one's home.
People like this psycho rapist aren't rational thinkers clearly, so it's not going to deter them either.
Not saying people shouldn't have the right to kill people who break into their home, but it's out of a right to defend themselves and their families, not to deter break ins. There doesn't need to be an additional justification beyond protecting yourself and your family.
And more killings wouldn't stop break ins too much, as most involve people breaking into a house where they know (or are pretty sure) no one's home.
People like this psycho rapist aren't rational thinkers clearly, so it's not going to deter them either.
Not saying people shouldn't have the right to kill people who break into their home, but it's out of a right to defend themselves and their families, not to deter break ins. There doesn't need to be an additional justification beyond protecting yourself and your family.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='bigdaddy']Never said I was a hero, I hear something I grab two things, a flashlight and a 10 inch chef's knife. I will stab the er until he no longer can move, then call 911.
Just be happy I don't have a gone, he blow to bits. Don't break into my house. If more people killed theers there would be less break ins.[/quote]
Yeah, i'm sure they'd be terrified of your "gone.":lol:
er until he no longer can move, then call 911.Just be happy I don't have a gone, he blow to bits. Don't break into my house. If more people killed the
ers there would be less break ins.[/quote]Yeah, i'm sure they'd be terrified of your "gone.":lol:
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't see the issue here. ...
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.[/QUOTE]
Yup. The guy did the best he could under the circumstances, but not at the expense of the welfare of his family for the sake of the criminal.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Clearly this shows that the state did not recognize the suffering this poor man went through as a victim of his disease. He did not receive the proper counseling and appropriate psychological and medical help for his disease during, or following, his too-long stay in prison, or this wouldn't have happened.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should bring up the firearms debate in a roundabout way; considering this man didn't need one to defend his home, I'd think the usual gun-nuts would want this story to die a quiet death, lest people realize they can defend themselves without the need for an AK-47 under every pillow. Weird.
More to the point, however: do you actually post anything productive anymore, or are lazy straw men your de facto MO nowadays?
This is contextually a long, long, LONG way from the thieves who were shot in the back when running away, if you remember that thread from a few months back.[/QUOTE]
Yup. The guy did the best he could under the circumstances, but not at the expense of the welfare of his family for the sake of the criminal.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Clearly this shows that the state did not recognize the suffering this poor man went through as a victim of his disease. He did not receive the proper counseling and appropriate psychological and medical help for his disease during, or following, his too-long stay in prison, or this wouldn't have happened.
As anyone can see, this means we need far more funding for our correctional and criminal rehabilitation systems so these tragedies don't occur.
Also, this just goes to show that we should encourage non-lethal protective devices such as tazers, mace, etc. to be in everyone's house. That way, when there is an unfortunate altercation, the needless loss of life can be averted and further likelihood for rehabilitation can progress.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should bring up the firearms debate in a roundabout way; considering this man didn't need one to defend his home, I'd think the usual gun-nuts would want this story to die a quiet death, lest people realize they can defend themselves without the need for an AK-47 under every pillow. Weird.
More to the point, however: do you actually post anything productive anymore, or are lazy straw men your de facto MO nowadays?
crystalklear64
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At least he brought condoms.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='trq']
Funny you should bring up the firearms debate in a roundabout way; considering this man didn't need one to defend his home, I'd think the usual gun-nuts would want this story to die a quiet death, lest people realize they can defend themselves without the need for an AK-47 under every pillow. Weird.[/quote]
There is no need for a gun to defend yourself against the unarmed, that's true. But how often are intruders unarmed?
Not a fan of satire, I take it?
I'd have to have been trying to make an argument, in order to be granted the coveted and common "strawman" accusation from you or myke, wouldn't I?
But to try and answer your question - productivity this forum is not. I've never posted anything productive here, nor has anyone that I've seen. If you want productivity, go to work or watch a construction site.
Funny you should bring up the firearms debate in a roundabout way; considering this man didn't need one to defend his home, I'd think the usual gun-nuts would want this story to die a quiet death, lest people realize they can defend themselves without the need for an AK-47 under every pillow. Weird.[/quote]
There is no need for a gun to defend yourself against the unarmed, that's true. But how often are intruders unarmed?
Not a fan of satire, I take it?
I'd have to have been trying to make an argument, in order to be granted the coveted and common "strawman" accusation from you or myke, wouldn't I?
But to try and answer your question - productivity this forum is not. I've never posted anything productive here, nor has anyone that I've seen. If you want productivity, go to work or watch a construction site.
[quote name='thrustbucket']If you want productivity, go to work.[/QUOTE]
I bet you wish you could!
As for intruders being unarmed, probably more often than you think since most are burglaries and they're assuming no one is home (thus no need for a weapon). And they don't' want to risk the added use of a gun charges if they get caught. Can't remember the book/study that had interviews with burglars that covered that stuff....was just something I read quickly when studying for the comp exams....
Home invasions certainly have armed people more often. At any rate, I support people having guns in their home, and the right to shoot someone who has broken in. I just don't like all the additional rationalizations people put out in support. It doesn't need anything more than the right to self defense in your home.
I bet you wish you could!
As for intruders being unarmed, probably more often than you think since most are burglaries and they're assuming no one is home (thus no need for a weapon). And they don't' want to risk the added use of a gun charges if they get caught. Can't remember the book/study that had interviews with burglars that covered that stuff....was just something I read quickly when studying for the comp exams....
Home invasions certainly have armed people more often. At any rate, I support people having guns in their home, and the right to shoot someone who has broken in. I just don't like all the additional rationalizations people put out in support. It doesn't need anything more than the right to self defense in your home.
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thrustbucket
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[quote name='dmaul1114']I bet you wish you could![/quote]
Hehe. Actually, it's probably not a stretch to say my tendency to post here so much helped directly lead me to being unemployed.
It's ok though, it was a shitty company with an 85 mile round trip to work anyway.
That makes sense actually.
Hehe. Actually, it's probably not a stretch to say my tendency to post here so much helped directly lead me to being unemployed.
It's ok though, it was a shitty company with an 85 mile round trip to work anyway.
That makes sense actually.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Not a fan of satire, I take it?
I'd have to have been trying to make an argument, in order to be granted the coveted and common "strawman" accusation from you or myke, wouldn't I?
But to try and answer your question - productivity this forum is not. I've never posted anything productive here, nor has anyone that I've seen. If you want productivity, go to work or watch a construction site.[/QUOTE]
Works for me. Satire's awesome. Sure, it usually helps if there's some kind of context so it doesn't just seem like trolling, but now I can look forward to mischaracterizing all kinds of stuff under the guise of satire, too. I'm sure CAG will be a better place once I really get the ball rolling on that.
As for productivity ... well, there's "having a productive debate on the internet with a bunch of people you don't know" and then there's productive. If I wanted to be productive, I wouldn't be here, that's for sure. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect people to at least attempt to make an honest point in those "internet debates" we're all wasting our time with.
EDIT: [quote name='thrustbucket']Hehe. Actually, it's probably not a stretch to say my tendency to post here so much helped directly lead me to being unemployed.[/QUOTE]
Considering I've had the impression that you and I post in comparable amounts, Thrust, I suddenly feel like maybe I should post a bit less...
I'd have to have been trying to make an argument, in order to be granted the coveted and common "strawman" accusation from you or myke, wouldn't I?
But to try and answer your question - productivity this forum is not. I've never posted anything productive here, nor has anyone that I've seen. If you want productivity, go to work or watch a construction site.[/QUOTE]
Works for me. Satire's awesome. Sure, it usually helps if there's some kind of context so it doesn't just seem like trolling, but now I can look forward to mischaracterizing all kinds of stuff under the guise of satire, too. I'm sure CAG will be a better place once I really get the ball rolling on that.
As for productivity ... well, there's "having a productive debate on the internet with a bunch of people you don't know" and then there's productive. If I wanted to be productive, I wouldn't be here, that's for sure. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect people to at least attempt to make an honest point in those "internet debates" we're all wasting our time with.
EDIT: [quote name='thrustbucket']Hehe. Actually, it's probably not a stretch to say my tendency to post here so much helped directly lead me to being unemployed.[/QUOTE]
Considering I've had the impression that you and I post in comparable amounts, Thrust, I suddenly feel like maybe I should post a bit less...
thrustbucket
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[quote name='trq']Works for me. Satire's awesome. Sure, it usually helps if there's some kind of context so it doesn't just seem like trolling, but now I can look forward to mischaracterizing all kinds of stuff under the guise of satire, too. I'm sure CAG will be a better place once I really get the ball rolling on that.
[/quote]
I didn't mean anything by it, I absolutely was mischaracterizing people's stances on purpose. I was in an especially cynical mood at the time.
Depending on what it is you do, you very well might. Or, if you're like me, you have a real hard time caring about working for the "man" right now.
[/quote]
I didn't mean anything by it, I absolutely was mischaracterizing people's stances on purpose. I was in an especially cynical mood at the time.
Depending on what it is you do, you very well might. Or, if you're like me, you have a real hard time caring about working for the "man" right now.
SteveDaWonder
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He's a hero to his daughter, that's for certain.
Wow,
Kids are out of the question, They would be dead. Even though she is almost an adult, shes still his kid. Dont mess with kids.
This was a seriously planned out event.. I wonder how many times he came ready when the windows were shut? Where are his clothes? Did he ditch them in the bushes or down the road? Did he come from home naked?
Kids are out of the question, They would be dead. Even though she is almost an adult, shes still his kid. Dont mess with kids.
This was a seriously planned out event.. I wonder how many times he came ready when the windows were shut? Where are his clothes? Did he ditch them in the bushes or down the road? Did he come from home naked?
Dante Devil
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Well imagine the father seeing a naked dude in his daughter's room. His adrenaline must have been through the roof. My main thought as a father would be to protect my daughter and do let this er go.
er go.
DarkNessBear
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64 and he has a 17 year old daughter? Anyways, bastard deserved it... dude if anyone walks in my house, especially when I am alone I will kill the mother er, even if its a person that got the wrong address.
er, even if its a person that got the wrong address.
Interstella 5555
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Yeah, this guy deserved it. Rape leaves such horrible emotional trauma that the victim will most likely live through with it with the rest of her/his life.
BigT
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I'd be interested to see what the cause of death was...
"They were not immediately sure if he died as a result of heart failure or from being choked."
The author of the article obviously doesn't know anything about medicine... but people generally don't just acutely die of "heart failure" (OK, I guess you could have flash pulmonary edema...). Choking out someone to death would also require at least 5-10 minutes of constant pressure on the carotids to cause widespread cerebral necrosis (the guy would have been out in 10-20 seconds). Plus, in the heat of the situation, it's often difficult to correctly execute a rear naked choke . I guess the trachea could have been compromised by a different type of choke, but that would seem like a pretty violent event...
The guy probably forgot to take his meds out of all of the anticipatory excitement and just died of an arrhythmia or MI as his sympathetic nervous system was activated as the fight ensued... either way, he had it coming...
"They were not immediately sure if he died as a result of heart failure or from being choked."
The author of the article obviously doesn't know anything about medicine... but people generally don't just acutely die of "heart failure" (OK, I guess you could have flash pulmonary edema...). Choking out someone to death would also require at least 5-10 minutes of constant pressure on the carotids to cause widespread cerebral necrosis (the guy would have been out in 10-20 seconds). Plus, in the heat of the situation, it's often difficult to correctly execute a rear naked choke . I guess the trachea could have been compromised by a different type of choke, but that would seem like a pretty violent event...
The guy probably forgot to take his meds out of all of the anticipatory excitement and just died of an arrhythmia or MI as his sympathetic nervous system was activated as the fight ensued... either way, he had it coming...
The Perfect Drug
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Good, I'm glad he died. It's too bad they couldn't bring him back just so they could kill him again or put him in jail so he could get raped repeatedly until someone stabbed him 12 times and die a slow and painful death.
[quote name='The Perfect Drug']Good, I'm glad he died. It's too bad they couldn't bring him back just so they could kill him again or put him in jail so he could get raped repeatedly until someone stabbed him 12 times and die a slow and painful death.[/quote]
Damn, and that's when he didn't even rape her? What the hell would you think he deserved if he did?
Damn, and that's when he didn't even rape her? What the hell would you think he deserved if he did?
The Perfect Drug
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[quote name='SpazX']Damn, and that's when he didn't even rape her? What the hell would you think he deserved if he did?[/quote]Well it's not like he was there for an open house. He would have obviously if the dad wasn't there.
[quote name='The Perfect Drug']Well it's not like he was there for an open house. He would have obviously if the dad wasn't there.[/quote]
Well yeah, I don't have a problem with what the dad did. Eye for an eye is stupid regardless, but you don't punish attempted murder as extremely as murder, do you?
Well yeah, I don't have a problem with what the dad did. Eye for an eye is stupid regardless, but you don't punish attempted murder as extremely as murder, do you?
The Perfect Drug
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I do in this case.
bread's done