First Amendment Need not Apply

usickenme

usickenme

CAGiversary!
This is a bizarre story..

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481



Judge: Parents can't teach pagan beliefs

An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."

The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.

Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, kept the unusual provision in the couple's divorce decree last year over their fierce objections, court records show. The order does not define a mainstream religion.
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James Dobson is gotta have a hard-on for this..
 
Kids should not have to be indoctrinated by their parents, they should get to make that choice themselves.

Children aren't property.

Now if only they ban mainstream beliefs as well...
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Kids should not have to be indoctrinated by their parents, they should get to make that choice themselves.

Children aren't property.
[/QUOTE]

As a parent, there are actually many things you have to indoctrinate your kids on. Right and wrong, behaviors, healthy eating.. and on and on. Children aren't property but they also aren't range-free pets that you allow to do whatever they want.

Also, the article didn't say they were. The mention "exposing" the child to the beliefs. How does one make an informed choice about religion without this kind of exposure.
 
Hey, that is why we have the first amendment so that we can say what we would like. So, I shouldn't have to do anything that is pushed upon me.
 
[quote name='usickenme']James Dobson is gotta have a hard-on for this..[/QUOTE]

That's an image I didn't need. Thanks, now I have to scrub my eyeballs. :)
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Kids should not have to be indoctrinated by their parents, they should get to make that choice themselves.

Children aren't property.

Now if only they ban mainstream beliefs as well...[/QUOTE]

That's ridiculous, they can't teach their kids their own religion? Every halfway decent parent teaches their children morals and almost all teach them religion, or teach them not to be religious, few do otherwise.

And besides, most people need religion, it is only the minority that can go without and benifit, or at least be the same as they would with religion.

This is discrimination pure and simple. The guy probably equates wicca with satan worship and is prohibiting any teaching of it on those grounds. He views it as harmful and dangerous, otherwise he would not forbid this teaching when both parents oppose this ruling.

You want to talk about activist judges, there is no justification here whatsoever, no law to interperet in this manner. This is the type that should be removed.

"There is a discrepancy between Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones' lifestyle and the belief system adhered to by the parochial school. . . . Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones display little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages," the bureau said in its report.
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The "mainstream" religion is christianity in the judges mind, that paragraph pretty much clears up any doubt. Where is this judge when jews, muslims and hindus attend catholic schools, as they did at mine? He should force them no to teach their kids their religion as well, as the school obviously should be the deciding factor on what the kids believe :roll: .
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']And besides, most people need religion, it is only the minority that can go without and benifit, or at least be the same as they would with religion.[/QUOTE]

Most people are idiots. Coincidence?
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Actually, that is only in third world countries.

In every first-world country besides the USA religious groups are a minority.[/QUOTE]

Flat out wrong. First off, being of a religious group does not mean practicing. Second, you forgot poland, as it is extremely religious.

This is all from the cia factbook:

Canada:
Roman Catholic 46%, Protestant 36%, other 18%

u.k.:
Anglican and Roman Catholic 40 million, Muslim 1.5 million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 500,000, Hindu 500,000, Jewish 350,000 (total population 60 million)

France: Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4%

Portugal: Roman Catholic 94%

Poland: Roman Catholic 95% (about 75% practicing), Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, and other 5% (abortions are illegal here, even the morning after if I believe. They also were pushing to put christianity into the eu constitution)


Germany: Protestant 34%, Roman Catholic 34%, Muslim 3.7%, unaffiliated or other 28.3%

etc.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Most people are idiots. Coincidence?[/QUOTE]

Heh, but religious people (not simply stating you believe in god, but it actually being a central part of your life) are shown to be happier and have higher life satisfaction the more devoted you are. The fact that many people also associate their atheism with a traumatic event (the death of a child, parent, lover, etc) is also partly to blame. But take a real atheist and a real devout religious person (of any religion), and the religious one tends to be happier and more fulfilled.
 
How dare they teach their child respect for the enviornment. How is he going to grow up and be a good little soldier for Bush, killing the "evil" in the world so that we can continue to drive our big, unsafe SUVs on the cheap.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Heh, but religious people (not simply stating you believe in god, but it actually being a central part of your life) are shown to be happier and have higher life satisfaction the more devoted you are. The fact that many people also associate their atheism with a traumatic event (the death of a child, parent, lover, etc) is also partly to blame. But take a real atheist and a real devout religious person (of any religion), and the religious one tends to be happier and more fulfilled.[/QUOTE]

I was gonna find a quote about intelligence going hand-in-hand with unhappyness, but I got lazy. Dumb people are usually happy yeah, but it's just because they're stupid. If I can get myself to believe that I have my own personal God looking out for me and that when I die I'm going to paradise, and that's all I'd have to think about, then yeah I'd be happy too. That's why Disney world is the happiest place on earth, because you get happy when you're in fantasy land and you don't have to worry about the real world.

Could've been said better, but you get the point.
 
The courts removed the fish from the city seal in Republic, Missouri because a Wiccan witch (Jean Webb) said it had christian connotations, and the courts agreed. They'll probably win.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']In every first-world country besides the USA religious groups are a minority.[/QUOTE]

Where do you come up with this shit? Seriously.
 
[quote name='camoor']How dare they teach their child respect for the enviornment. How is he going to grow up and be a good little soldier for Bush, killing the "evil" in the world so that we can continue to drive our big, unsafe SUVs on the cheap.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean? Bush said "I guess you’d say I’ma good steward of the land”. He wouldn't BS us now, would he?
 
[quote name='usickenme']As a parent, there are actually many things you have to indoctrinate your kids on. Right and wrong, behaviors, healthy eating.. and on and on. Children aren't property but they also aren't range-free pets that you allow to do whatever they want.

Also, the article didn't say they were. The mention "exposing" the child to the beliefs. How does one make an informed choice about religion without this kind of exposure.[/QUOTE]

I'm shocked, I agree with usickenme! :p Now if you would only apply this opinion to other areas! ;)
 
[quote name='Rich']Where do you come up with this shit? Seriously.[/QUOTE]

I heard it on BBC World News.

And by the way, there is a difference between practicing a religion and casually answering a public poll or filling out a tax form saying you are religious.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I'm shocked, I agree with usickenme! :p Now if you would only apply this opinion to other areas! ;)[/QUOTE]

I do and that's why I am a liberal. :p
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Heh, but religious people (not simply stating you believe in god, but it actually being a central part of your life) are shown to be happier and have higher life satisfaction the more devoted you are. The fact that many people also associate their atheism with a traumatic event (the death of a child, parent, lover, etc) is also partly to blame. But take a real atheist and a real devout religious person (of any religion), and the religious one tends to be happier and more fulfilled.[/QUOTE]

Ignorance is bliss. :lol:
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Heh, but religious people (not simply stating you believe in god, but it actually being a central part of your life) are shown to be happier and have higher life satisfaction the more devoted you are. The fact that many people also associate their atheism with a traumatic event (the death of a child, parent, lover, etc) is also partly to blame. But take a real atheist and a real devout religious person (of any religion), and the religious one tends to be happier and more fulfilled.[/QUOTE]

But the religious person is more likely to beat his wife...
 
[quote name='Rich']The courts removed the fish from the city seal in Republic, Missouri because a Wiccan witch (Jean Webb) said it had christian connotations, and the courts agreed. They'll probably win.[/QUOTE]

I'm assuming you think that was stupid, so to be making any point you must think the judge has a point?
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']I heard it on BBC World News.

And by the way, there is a difference between practicing a religion and casually answering a public poll or filling out a tax form saying you are religious.[/QUOTE]

BBC is the main news site I use, and I don't come up with that stuff. Though, no matter how you want to phrase it, you were wrong. Poland is more religious than the u.s., every other nation I'd say is a guess, but I know poland is.

I also think saying their more likely to beat their wife would likely be unfounded, or no sizeable difference if there is any at all.

Though, about intelligence, I've seen studies that show that geniuses are no more prone to depression or unhappiness than any other group. Though I would argue the reason religion provides happiness is because it removes uncertainty and there's always something or someone to depend on or place your faith in.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I'm assuming you think that was stupid, so to be making any point you must think the judge has a point?[/QUOTE]

Huh? Of coarse I think it's stupid. The Wiccan was a goddamn fool, and the judge was just as foolish as the Wiccan.
OMG! LETS PURGE THE OCEAN OF FISH! THEY'RE RELIGIOUS IN CONNOTATION!
 
[quote name='Rich']Huh? Of coarse I think it's stupid. The Wiccan was a goddamn fool, and the judge was just as foolish as the Wiccan.
OMG! LETS PURGE THE OCEAN OF FISH! THEY'RE RELIGIOUS IN CONNOTATION![/QUOTE]

Purge the ocean of fish? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about?

How is the wiccan a fool by the way? Because of their religion? So a religion based around an invisible man in the sky, who sees everything you do and has a plan for everyone, is somehow any better? I'd like someone to explain how any religion with a god(s)/goddess(es) is smarter or more foolish than another.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Purge the ocean of fish? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about?

How is the wiccan a fool by the way? Because of their religion? So a religion based around an invisible man in the sky, who sees everything you do and has a plan for everyone, is somehow any better? I'd like someone to explain how any religion with a god(s)/goddess(es) is smarter or more foolish than another.[/QUOTE]

Ohhhhh, instance #437 of people putting words in Rich's mouth!

I made absolutely no fucking comment on religion. She's a fool because she was offended by a fuckING FISH in the town seal BECAUSE SHE THINKS FISH ARE RELIGION IN fuckING CONNOTATION, not because she's a Wiccan.

What's next? Judges shut down fish markets because their product was used by Jesus?
 
[quote name='Rich']Huh? Of coarse I think it's stupid. The Wiccan was a goddamn fool, and the judge was just as foolish as the Wiccan.
OMG! LETS PURGE THE OCEAN OF FISH! THEY'RE RELIGIOUS IN CONNOTATION![/QUOTE]

That is pretty dumb. I, for one, certainly don't mind a little fish symbology.

Cthulhu-Fish.jpg
 
[quote name='Rich']Ohhhhh, instance #437 of people putting words in Rich's mouth!

I made absolutely no fucking comment on religion. She's a fool because she was offended by a fuckING FISH in the town seal ...[/QUOTE]

Hold up Hold up.

You didn't tell us the fish were fucking

Procreat.jpg
 
[quote name='Rich']Ohhhhh, instance #437 of people putting words in Rich's mouth!

I made absolutely no fucking comment on religion. She's a fool because she was offended by a fuckING FISH in the town seal BECAUSE SHE THINKS FISH ARE RELIGION IN fuckING CONNOTATION, not because she's a Wiccan.

What's next? Judges shut down fish markets because their product was used by Jesus?[/QUOTE]

I assume the fish was the symbol used by christians. In that case it is not a fish but a christian symbol.

Since you mentioned fish after the judge part I thought you were attacking the reverence for nature part (also didn't remember the whole fish thing).

Though am I the only one wondering why it was shagfued out? Maybe cause it was capitalized. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

Yup, that was it.
 
[quote name='camoor']That is pretty dumb. I, for one, certainly don't mind a little fish symbology.

[/QUOTE]

Are you being sarcastic? Because anyone who is offended by a fish needs to be slapped in the face.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I assume the fish was the symbol used by christians. In that case it is not a fish but a christian symbol.

Since you mentioned fish after the judge part I thought you were attacking the reverence for nature part (also didn't remember the whole fish thing).

Though am I the only one wondering why it was shagfued out? Maybe cause it was capitalized. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

Yup, that was it.[/QUOTE]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/font] [/font] [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/font][/font]

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republic.seal.jpg

Never mind that a Christian town should be allowed Chrstian symbols in their town seals, but I see absolutely no religious connotation in that, and if you're offended, I believe the Mexican border is open for you to cross.

I'd whip out all the injustices against the silent majority (christians) in this country at the hand of the courts, but it's not worth it, partly because I don't see this as a religious issue as much as an ultra-sensitive Wiccan issue. The ACLU is a fucking joke.

Never mind the creator of the seal " [/font][/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]said she thought the fish symbol represented all religions"[/font][/font]
 
That is clearly a religious symbol, and no government building, flag etc. should have religious symbols, regardless of what the majority of a town is (is there a town where the majority aren't christian?).

Though silent majority? What group is louder than christians? I went to a womens health clinic in buffalo once just to see if anyone would be protesting (it was sorta famous among clinics, as a doctor who worked there was shot and killed in front of his family a few years back), and there were. They weren't exactly quiet in their religious denouncements of the place. Nor are they very quiet on the gay rights issue, or the Iraq war, or bush.

Though just because you tell christians they have to abide by the rules of a secular government, doesn't mean they're being persecuted.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']That is clearly a religious symbol, and no government building, flag etc. should have religious symbols, regardless of what the majority of a town is (is there a town where the majority aren't christian?).

Though silent majority? What group is louder than christians? I went to a womens health clinic in buffalo once just to see if anyone would be protesting (it was sorta famous among clinics, as a doctor who worked there was shot and killed in front of his family a few years back), and there were. They weren't exactly quiet in their religious denouncements of the place. Nor are they very quiet on the gay rights issue, or the Iraq war, or bush.[/QUOTE]

Quiet in the injustices against them, I mean. They sat down quietly and let this country be de-christianized, despite the will of nearly everyone in our history to remain a Christian nation.

Also, what would your stance be if the icthus on the seal was a normal fish? Because to be offended by a crudely drawn fish and not a regular fish is .... never mind.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']That is clearly a religious symbol, and no government building, flag etc. should have religious symbols, regardless of what the majority of a town is (is there a town where the majority aren't christian?).

Though silent majority? What group is louder than christians? I went to a womens health clinic in buffalo once just to see if anyone would be protesting (it was sorta famous among clinics, as a doctor who worked there was shot and killed in front of his family a few years back), and there were. They weren't exactly quiet in their religious denouncements of the place. Nor are they very quiet on the gay rights issue, or the Iraq war, or bush.

Though just because you tell christians they have to abide by the rules of a secular government, doesn't mean they're being persecuted.[/QUOTE]

Once the new moral order is in place and finished, Christians will be persecuted. Give it 30-40 years and Christianity in America will be no more. The Churches don't make matters any better, either, with their unrequired conformity. Fortunately for me, I've renounced my religion, so i won't suffer the same fate as the Wiccan witch who....well, nothing, she was just offended by a stupid fish.
 
[quote name='Rich']Quiet in the injustices against them, I mean. They sat down quietly and let this country be de-christianized, despite the will of nearly everyone in our history to remain a Christian nation.

Also, what would your stance be if the icthus on the seal was a normal fish? Because to be offended by a crudely drawn fish and not a regular fish is .... never mind.
[/QUOTE]

Wait, so a fish that is identical to the fish used by christians, in a christian town, you're arguing isn't a christian fish, just a poorly drawn regular fish? If it was a normal fish then it's simply representing fish, but it's a christian fish having absolutely nothing to do with the animal.

Though show me where christian ever sat down quietly when christianity was to be removed from certain aspects? They weren't quiet on prayer, on evolution, on religious symbols etc. They have never been quiet and they never will be. Just cause they lost in many cases doesn't mean they were quiet. And besides, we are a secular nation open to all faiths, majority or not, the supposed state of this nation is not a christian one but a secular one.

Once the new moral order is in place and finished, Christians will be persecuted. Give it 30-40 years and Christianity in America will be no more. The Churches don't make matters any better, either, with their unrequired conformity. Fortunately for me, I've renounced my religion, so i won't suffer the same fate as the Wiccan witch who....well, nothing, she was just offended by a stupid fish.
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Ya, like there's so much evidence of that :roll: . Seriously, time to take off the insane hat.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Wait, so a fish that is identical to the fish used by christians, in a christian town, you're arguing isn't a christian fish, just a poorly drawn regular fish? If it was a normal fish then it's simply representing fish, but it's a christian fish having absolutely nothing to do with the animal.

Though show me where christian ever sat down quietly when christianity was to be removed from certain aspects? They weren't quiet on prayer, on evolution, on religious symbols etc. They have never been quiet and they never will be. Just cause they lost in many cases doesn't mean they were quiet. And besides, we are a secular nation open to all faiths, majority or not, the supposed state of this nation is not a christian one but a secular one.[/QUOTE]

This I shall, but it will have to wait until (checks calander for what the hell day it is) ... uh, Saturday. I'm going to bed, waking up, going to work and then out, and then bed, and then when I wake up on Saturday I'll respond before work.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']
Ya, like there's so much evidence of that :roll: . Seriously, time to take off the insane hat.[/QUOTE]

It will happen. Quite frankly, I don't care considering my faith, but it will happen.

I leave you with this:

"I believe no one can read the history of our contry without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses....Whether we look to the first Charter of Virginia....or to the Charter of New England...or to the Charter of Mass. Bay....or to the Fundamental Order of Connecticut...the same objective is present: a Christian land governed by Christian principles."

--Chief Justice Earl Warren.

"This is a Chrstian Nation"

--Supreme Court, 1892

"America was born a Christian nation born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of the Holy Scripture."

--Woodrow Wilson, 1911

Americans are a "Christian people"

--Justice George Sutherland, reaffirming the Supreme Court in 1892.

America was "founded on the principles of Christianity"

--FDR at Placentia Bay

"This is a Christian nation"

--Harry Truman

"We are a religious people and our instituions presuppose the existence of a Supreme Being"

--Justice William Douglas

"We have a responsibility to try to shape government so that it does exemplify the Will of God"

--Jimmy Carter

"This Court's decision bristles with histility to all things religious in public life...Neither the holding nor the tone of the opinion is faithful to the meaning of the Establishment Clause, when it is recalled that George Washington himself, at the request of the very Congress which passed the Bill of Rights, proclaimed a day of 'public thansgiving and prayer to be observed acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God'"

--Chief Justice Rehnquist in response to the Supreme Court's decisions banning many of the laws against Christian things such as prayers at graduation and moments of silence at the start of school days.




Thank you, and good night.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Wait, so a fish that is identical to the fish used by christians, in a christian town, you're arguing isn't a christian fish, just a poorly drawn regular fish? If it was a normal fish then it's simply representing fish, but it's a christian fish having absolutely nothing to do with the animal. [/QUOTE]

fuck that. It's not Jesus, it's a fish.

Just like I don't equate Confederate Flags with slavery and swastikas with Nazism, I don't equate a fucking fish with Jesus. Symbolism is a fucking joke. If these were pictures of slaves, pictures of Auschwitz, or pictures of Jesus walking on water, respectively, then I could see people being offended, but not by a fucking picture of nothing offense.
 
I hate to tell you this but in divorce decrees the judge has a wide lattitude in what he can restrict a parent from doing such as smoking around children.

I would also add I don't know that the Wiccan "church" is recognized as legitimate, so I don't know that there is any discrimination going on here.

Its not as though the judge said the other parent couldn't teach Christian, Jewish or Muslim religious beliefs to the child.

Sorry, not all "religions" are equal. Nor should they be.

CTL
 
[quote name='Rich']fuck that. It's not Jesus, it's a fish.

Just like I don't equate Confederate Flags with slavery and swastikas with Nazism, I don't equate a fucking fish with Jesus. Symbolism is a fucking joke. If these were pictures of slaves, pictures of Auschwitz, or pictures of Jesus walking on water, respectively, then I could see people being offended, but not by a fucking picture of nothing offense.[/QUOTE]

This has to be the most ignorant thing you've said. You don't agree with symbols?!? What species are you? Humans have used symbols for millions of years. They're visual shorthand. You don't have to wear a t-shirt that says "I'm an knuckle-dragging, racist asshole" - you can just wear a swaztika. It saves time.

That fish is a symbol of christianity whether you like to think so or not and therefore doesn't belong of a government seal. Just because you don't "get" the symbol, doesn't mean it doesn't stand for something.

And the artist who claimed to think it was a symbol for all religions is either terminally stupid or trying to cover her own ass.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']I hate to tell you this but in divorce decrees the judge has a wide lattitude in what he can restrict a parent from doing such as smoking around children.

I would also add I don't know that the Wiccan "church" is recognized as legitimate, so I don't know that there is any discrimination going on here.

Its not as though the judge said the other parent couldn't teach Christian, Jewish or Muslim religious beliefs to the child.

Sorry, not all "religions" are equal. Nor should they be.

CTL[/QUOTE]

So, if we rewind 1950 years and the judge is a magistrate in Jerusalem, you would essentially be saying that it is morally right to for the government to keep the child away from the teachings of Christianity. Instead he would have to be taught the more respectable and established religions of either Roman Paganism, Zoroastrianism, and maybe you would tolerate Judaism.

Why don't we go further, and ban the teaching of all sects of Christianity (or any other major religion) that don't have as many members as the Wiccan religion.

If the judge's ruling is upheld, it amounts to a case of out-and-out socialism.
 
[quote name='camoor']So, if we rewind 1950 years and the judge is a magistrate in Jerusalem, you would essentially be saying that it is morally right to for the government to keep the child away from the teachings of Christianity. Instead he would have to be taught the more respectable and established religions of either Roman Paganism, Zoroastrianism, and maybe you would tolerate Judaism.

Why don't we go further, and ban the teaching of all sects of Christianity (or any other major religion) that don't have as many members as the Wiccan religion.

If the judge's ruling is upheld, it amounts to a case of out-and-out socialism.[/QUOTE]

And no thats not what I am saying. 50 years ago a magistrate in Jerusalem would have acknowledged Christianity as a major religion.

But why don't we apply American laws to an American court case?

The reality is that the wiccan "religion" isn't recognized. There is nothing more to this.

In a shocking twist to this forum people are just looking for something to complain about and scream oppresion.

CTL
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']So let me get this straight, in America people should have to pratice one of the three major religions, or none at all?[/QUOTE]

No. And thats not what I said.

However, just as the Wiccan "religion" won't get you a tax write-off it won't allow be recognized in a divorce decree.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq']No. And thats not what I said.

However, just as the Wiccan "religion" won't get you a tax write-off it won't allow be recognized in a divorce decree.

CTL[/QUOTE]

It is just as much a religion as the big three; Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It is just as much a religion as the big three; Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.[/QUOTE]

It is not recongized as such.

Don't continue to embarass yourself.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq']It is not recongized as such.

Don't continue to embarass yourself.

CTL[/QUOTE]

I think he just meant that "as much as you believe in your crazy fairytale, this other crazy fairytale is just as valid." Tax exemption does not a valid religion make.

As long as the religion doesn't directly involve harm of the child, then it should be allowed in the home. Freedom of Religion doesn't mean "Freedom to be Christian or Jewish" after all.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I think he just meant that "as much as you believe in your crazy fairytale, this other crazy fairytale is just as valid."[/QUOTE]

What I meant was believe anything you want. It doesn't mean the government will recognize it.

[quote name='evilmax17']Tax exemption does not a valid religion make.[/quote]

Its not an issue of validity. Its an issue of recognition.

[quote name='evilmax17']As long as the religion doesn't directly involve harm of the child, then it should be allowed in the home. Freedom of Religion doesn't mean "Freedom to be Christian or Jewish" after all.[/QUOTE]

Try again.

CTL
 
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