Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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warner owns international rights, paramount US

so might come out on blu ray overseas

dunno how warner is with region protection tho
 
[quote name='geko29']They're not exactly comparable. Dolby Digital EX is regular 5.1 Dolby Digital with a center rear or a pair of back surround channels matrixed into the surround channels. So you get a 6.1 or 7.1 output from a 5.1 input, in much the same way Dolby Prologic extracts 5 channels from 2.

DTS is similar to DD, in that it's 5.1 only. DTS-ES is their 6.1 channel variant, which can have either a matrixed center rear like DD EX (called DTS-ES Matrix), or a completely independent one in its own channel (called DTS-ES Discrete).

So looking just at that, DD EX gives you one or two more channels than plain-jane DTS. As for quality, you'll have to look at the bitrate. But unfortunately you can't compare directly. DD is more efficient than DTS, so you get the same quality at a lower bitrate (think AVC/VC-1 vs. MPEG-2). Half-bitrate DTS (754kbps) usually sounds better than 384kbps DD but worse than 448kbps DD, and full-bitrate DTS (1.5Mbps) is approximately equal to 640kbps DD.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're asking this question because you're planning to buy Terminator 2 and want to know which soundtrack will sound better. According to reports I've read, the DD EX and DTS-ES Matrix soundtracks were ported over directly from the Ultimate Edition DVD. If that is the case, I found the DTS track to be ever so slightly (like 1%) more pleasing to my ears on my old 5.1 Sony rig. If they've bumped up the bitrates on either track (they were 448 and 768kbps, respecively on the DVD release), then all bets are off, but if it's a straight port as several reviews claim, they're virtually indistinguishable. HighDef Digest claims they're both 1.5Mbps, but DD above 640kbps doesn't exist, which makes me doubt their claim on the DTS track as well.[/quote]
Nah, I already have Terminator 2, I have just been renting a lot of Lionsgate movies recently, and just received Crank for christmas and they all have Dolby Ex instead of a DTS track and was just wondering if that's something I should be excited, disappointed or indifferent about.
 
Leaks have begun. 61:39 for the week. Bourne was the top title, followed by POTC3, then HP5 Blu, then HP5 Red. HP Blu outsold HP Red by 1.2:1, or 56:44. Single-disc HP5 outsold the boxsets 5:1. The top 4 will look something like:

1. Bourne Ultimatum 100
2. POTC: At World's End ??
3. HP: Order of the Phoenix BD 60
4. HP: Order of the Phoenix HD 50

Other notables: POTC3 has outsold Casino Royale as of this week. Planet Earth on HD DVD passed the 100k mark this week.
 
[quote name='geko29']Leaks have begun. 61:39 for the week. Bourne was the top title, followed by POTC3, then HP5 Blu, then HP5 Red. HP Blu outsold HP Red by 1.2:1, or 56:44. Single-disc HP5 outsold the boxsets 5:1. The top 4 will look something like:

1. Bourne Ultimatum 100
2. POTC: At World's End ??
3. HP: Order of the Phoenix BD 60
4. HP: Order of the Phoenix HD 50

Other notables: POTC3 has outsold Casino Royale as of this week. Planet Earth on HD DVD passed the 100k mark this week.[/QUOTE]


Yeah home Media sent me the email with this story:

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2&newsid=11754


On the Blu-ray Disc chart, At World’s End remained in the top sales spot for the second week, with newcomer Order of the Phoenix debuting at No. 2. On the HD DVD chart, Bourne outsold Order of the Phoenix by a margin of nearly 2-to-1.
Click to expand...
 
That article doesn't, however, make any comparison between the formats. Bourne could have outsold POTC by 1,000 to 1, or vice versa. :)
 
Really? You have faith in the taste of the American public?
spears2.jpg


And another image to show what Blu-Ray has done throughout all of 2007.
sweep.jpg
 
Wow, people started receiving their replacement POTC discs yesterday. I don't have mine yet, but imagine it will be here by the weekend. Kudos Disney. Here's a comparison between the old and the new:

comparepotcde92e.jpg
 
That was fast - does Disney have a policy in place to mail back your old discs, or have they just set up an infrastructure that would allow people to scam their way into a free POTC Blu-Ray?

Also, does it come in its own case, or disc-only? I'd be thrilled with the former, as then I'd have two cases for my Harry Potter movies.
 
They don't, so unfortunately they will probably be scammed endlessly and the next time a replacement is necessary, it'll probably be an advance-exchange type of arrangement. I hope nobody here, despite our cheapassness, will take advantage of Disney's good CS. It's a truly rare thing nowadays, and it would be a shame to lose it.

The disc comes in a cardboard sleeve inside a yellow envelope. It is only disc 1 (movie and a few special features), as there are no problems with disc 2.
 
Ah...dammit. I was hoping for a free case, like w/ The Fifth Element.

I, too, hope they don't get taken to the cleaners here, as it's quite true that quality CS is as rare as anything.
 
[quote name='geko29']Wow, people started receiving their replacement POTC discs yesterday. I don't have mine yet, but imagine it will be here by the weekend. Kudos Disney. Here's a comparison between the old and the new:

comparepotcde92e.jpg
[/quote]

Is it just me or do the colors look different as well? Or is that just the camera?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Is it just me or do the colors look different as well? Or is that just the camera?[/quote]
The second pic is actually the SD DVD, which is framed properly but has an incorrect color timing. The framing is the important issue, and that pic has been verified to be accurate WRT the field of view by people who have received the replacement disc.

[quote name='dallow']Who took the caps?
I only trust Xenon.
If it wasn't him, maybe just different user settings.[/quote]
No it was not Xylon. His caps can be found here (SD DVD vs. HD Cable vs. original BD), and I imagine he'll update that post with BD screencaps once he gets his copy.
 
Yeah I got my POTC as a freebie, but have yet to open it up. Was it ever determinded if ALL had this issue?

I need to get online tonight and take care of the order before they shut it down or something.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Yeah I got my POTC as a freebie, but have yet to open it up. Was it ever determinded if ALL had this issue?[/quote]
Yes, every single copy ever mailed out as a freebie, sold at retail or packed into a player is affected. The very first correct copies arrived at Disney last week.
 
[quote name='geko29']Yes, every single copy ever mailed out as a freebie, sold at retail or packed into a player is affected. The very first correct copies arrived at Disney last week.[/QUOTE]

Thanks then I better get to opening it and filling out that online form tonight.

Picked up Casino Royale and Open season today at Best Buy with a gift card, had them match CC's ad.

Picked up Call of Duty 4 as well for $34.99 after $10 off PS3 coupon. Not a bad day at BB at all. I have yet to watch a Blu Ray on the system, and I cant believe I looked for the concealed memory/USB slots on my new 40GB? Thank God I was the only one home when I did that!

I will get some time this weekend to check out the movies side of things for sure.
 
[quote name='geko29']The second pic is actually the SD DVD, which is framed properly but has an incorrect color timing. The framing is the important issue, and that pic has been verified to be accurate WRT the field of view by people who have received the replacement disc.


No it was not Xylon. His caps can be found here (SD DVD vs. HD Cable vs. original BD), and I imagine he'll update that post with BD screencaps once he gets his copy.[/quote]

Makes sense.
 
I think we need some GizmoGC level HD DVD fanboyism in this thread:


Guys, obviously WB screwing up T3 & Blade Runner on BR means they're going HD DVD only!!111 This will FINALLY end the war in HD DVD's favor. Who cares about sales numbers, it's the Standalone players that count. The PS3 doesn't count as a player, because for today I decided it doesn't.
 
How much of an improvement are the lossless audio over just plain dts and dolby digital.
My onkyo 505 only does dts and dolby digital.

Is it worth it to upgrade?
 
Big improvement.
Try sampling the 2.0 lossless with a PCM or TrueHD track on a movie with a high AQ score with your optical cable.

What was wrong with T3 on BD?
 
[quote name='anomynous']I think we need some GizmoGC level HD DVD fanboyism in this thread:[/QUOTE]

I think even Gizmo realizes the format war is all but over, as he's no longer posting in this thread. Shame, that; his points were always good for a laugh.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think even Gizmo realizes the format war is all but over, as he's no longer posting in this thread. Shame, that; his points were always good for a laugh.[/QUOTE]

As long as each side still has their exclusive studios the war will continue.
 
[quote name='dallow']What was wrong with T3 on BD?[/quote]
Dolby Digital where folks were hoping for lossless; movie encoded at 1080i/60.
 
[quote name='geko29']Dolby Digital where folks were hoping for lossless; movie encoded at 1080i/60.[/quote]Same for both formats I suppose?
 
[quote name='dallow']Same for both formats I suppose?[/quote] Audio is the same. Both video encodes are new for Blu-Ray, and the movie alone was done in 1080i/60. The seperate encode with hard-PiP is 1080p/24. There's only one encode on the DVD, and it's 1080p/24 (plus whatever the soft-PiP is encoded at).

Edit: looks like they're going to offer a replacement program. They don't know yet how or when it will be done, however. Prevailing theories are either seamless branching for the PiP/non PiP versions of the film (as the current release was supposed to have), or redoing it for 1.1/bonus view compatibility if they have to re-create it from scratch anyhow.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think even Gizmo realizes the format war is all but over, as he's no longer posting in this thread. Shame, that; his points were always good for a laugh.[/QUOTE]
But on another point I was just at BB and Blade Runner was sold out on both formats
 
[quote name='anomynous']But on another point I was just at BB and Blade Runner was sold out on both formats[/QUOTE]HD-DVD is saved!
 
So, there's a plan to replace POTC1 on Blu-Ray, and something is wrong with POTC3 on Blu-Ray when using it on PS3. So what's wrong with Pirates 2 then? I mean, we must have overlooked something here.

I need a link to that replacement program form for it though.
 
I found this funny:
In a nasty turn of events Friday afternoon, the official Blu-ray Disc Association site was apparently hacked, redirecting visitors to the official HD DVD site.
From around 4-5:00pm ET Friday, visitors to the blu-raydisc.com web site were instead sent to the HD DVD camp's lookandsoundofperfect.com web site.
At press time, no one had claimed responsibility for the apparent hack, and there was no official response from either the BDA or the HD DVD Promotions Group.
We'll continue to keep you informed of any new developments as they happen.
(Thanks to everyone who sent in tips related to this story)


UPDATE: As of around 5:10pm ET Friday, things seemed to be back to normal at blu-raydisc.com. We've updated this story accordingly.
Click to expand...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...acked_Re-Directs_to_Official_HD_DVD_Site/1297
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think even Gizmo realizes the format war is all but over, as he's no longer posting in this thread. Shame, that; his points were always good for a laugh.[/quote]
I think he realized no one liked him in this thread so he stopped posting. ;)


http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=777


Blu-ray news


Hollywood Reporter Predicts 2008 Win for Blu-ray

Posted December 21, 2007 by Josh

Blu-ray Disc As this year comes to a close, Hollywood Reporter is making a few predictions about what they expect to see from Hollywood next year. With regards to the format war in 2008, they predict, "Blu-ray blows away HD DVD". Citing the strength of sales as the major reasons for it eventual success, they also suggested that the PlayStation 3 is a major driving force for the format.

More notable about the article is that current Blockbuster trends show Blu-ray being favored 70% to the rival format at stores featuring both products. With those statistics, Blockbuster is sure to maintain their current company policy to support Blu-ray.
Click to expand...

Didn't know about the Blockbuster, but interesting to see another major magazine picking blu-ray, always a good thing.
 
I think that this much crushes the rumors of Warner going exclusive with Blu-Ray...
hd_dvd_ces_sm.jpg

Enthusiasts and bloggers have pointed to the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) and Warner Bros. listed as attending the HD DVD Promotional Group’s Press Conference (all two hours of it) on Sunday, January 6th, as proof that Warner Bros. will continue publishing on HD DVD. Blu-ray proponents have countered with “they are just on there because they are a member of the group… it doesn’t mean they will appear,” or, “they could cancel.”
Click to expand...
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=705
Now this could mean that they'll become HD DVD exclusive....or just continue to stay neutral.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']I think that this much crushes the rumors of Warner going exclusive with Blu-Ray...
hd_dvd_ces_sm.jpg


http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=705
Now this could mean that they'll become HD DVD exclusive....or just continue to stay neutral.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it seems that CES won't be the war-ending event the blue camp was hoping it would be.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Now this could mean that they'll become HD DVD exclusive[/QUOTE]

:rofl: Thanks for the laff. It's well known that WB turned down the same offer that Paramount accepted last August. If they can't be bought, what *possible* argument is there that WB would go HD DVD exclusive?

That said, WB is going to keep up all neutral appearances until the moment they go neutral - just like Paramount had pressed copies of Blades of Glory on BD (not that I'm suggesting spending that kind of money was a diversionary tactic, but that's the nature of such agreements). WB's executives comments have always reeked of "we're not telling anyone a damned thing until we actually make the decision to go one way or the other." No different than the 360 Elite, the 40GB PS3, and god knows what other examples there are.

Don't get me wrong: I think anyone expecting WB to announce a move to exclusively put out movies on either side at CES will be sorely disappointed. I'm also not really interested in any "rallying" to buy WB movies like the folks at the blu-ray.com forums (fuckin' hell almighty them's some really annoying folks over there in the "insider thread," insiders notwithstanding). I buy what movies I want to see, and if they're WB movies, well, bully for them.

That said, I do think WB sees the light at the end of the tunnel and recognizes that DVD sales, having declined this year and being predicted to drop a touch more in 2008, aren't going to grow. They need to expand their market elsewhere, and as a result, they want to end the format war so as to allow market saturation for the many, many, many fence-sitters who don't have a horse in the race.

They'll go one way or the other, sooner than later, but I don't think it will be as soon as CES, and I don't think it's fair to read into a single thing they do, short of suddenly releasing movies on only one format, announcing movies for only one format, or otherwise. IOW, we won't know anything for sure until it's already happened. To speculate on this or that is silly.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Another report stating the fall of HD-DVD as well.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/features/film/e3i3b664324ba4ea5c03e0924ea906b3ecd?imw=Y
[/quote]
Hate to burst your bubble, but that's the same exact article H. posted. And to be fair, the Hollywood Reporter has been the BDA's primary news outlet for disseminating press releases, rumors and leaks. Just about every major thing they've ever leaked or hinted at has been printed by Nikki Finke over there. So them declaring BR the winner is akin to Fox News saying GWB is a great president.
 
Why do people who back HD DVD think Warner is going to go HD exclusive? Didn't they already try that and realize that it didn't work out for them? Then again looking at who their parent company is, it wouldn't suprise me if they made the dumbest decision possible.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Why do people who back HD DVD think Warner is going to go HD exclusive? Didn't they already try that and realize that it didn't work out for them? Then again looking at who their parent company is, it wouldn't suprise me if they made the dumbest decision possible.[/QUOTE]

If they really were offered a deal similar to the rumored Paramount deal (~150 million) to go exclusive for a couple years, wouldn't turning it down be the dumbest decision possible?

No way they generate 150 million of income from any high def format in a couple years.
 
Unlike Paramount, who has been having financial problems, Warner has money coming out it's a**. That's probably why they didn't take any offers made. Remember WB was going to make the HD discs with BR on one side and HD on the other, they want one format. I just think they see more money in supporting both right now, and if at some point down the road it looks more profitable to support one over the other they'll do it. I'm honestly surprised more studios haven't went neutral. I guess it's because in order for the masses to jump into HD, they need one unified format. No one wants to buy the next BETAMAX.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']Unlike Paramount, who has been having financial problems, Warner has money coming out it's a**. That's probably why they didn't take any offers made. Remember WB was going to make the HD discs with BR on one side and HD on the other, they want one format. I just think they see more money in supporting both right now, and if at some point down the road it looks more profitable to support one over the other they'll do it. I'm honestly surprised more studios haven't went neutral. I guess it's because in order for the masses to jump into HD, they need one unified format. No one wants to buy the next BETAMAX.[/QUOTE]

Even if Warner has money coming out of their ass, I'm sure they'd happily take $150million. But they know both sides will be offering them all kinds of deals, so it's really up to whichever format offers the better deal.
 
Anything is possible. I just figured they would stay neutral as long as it was more profitable. I guess you're right though who wouldn't take a butt load of money to back one or the other. Being one of the biggest studios, with one of the biggest libraries, I think they would've helped HDDVD alot more than Paramount Dreamworks. Just seems it would've payed off more to throw more money that way instead of what happened. Just one dumba**es opinion.
 
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