GOP Platform 2010: Um, Tax Cuts and...Stuff

Better than the current policy of raising taxes, adding trillions to the national debt, making a broken health care system worse and flushing our economy further down the toilet. In this case, doing nothing really is the lesser of two evils.
 
Over 1/3 of the stimulus package was tax cuts.

Taxes have gone up for nobody *yet*, and if they do at all, will go up for the top 2% (that's two per cent) of households in the US.

Not to mention if their taxes increase, it's because tax cuts expire. So whose tax cuts are being "raised"? Nobody's at all, really.

I at least respect that you acknowledge the GOP platform is 'do nothing.'
 
So, looking at a draft of the 21-page platform, I rescind my prior comment. It's not a 'do nothing' program. It's a miasma of long-refuted policies that don't resolve the problems they claim to, along with a sprinkling of Tea Party nutbaggery:

Hear your greatest hits, such as (actual quotes from the document):
- "Repeal the Costly Health Care Takeover of 2010"
- "Enact Medical Liability Reform" (that's 'tort reform', in case your reading comprehension is lacking)
- "Purchase Health Insurance Across State Lines"
- "Expand Health Savings Accounts"
- "Permanently Prohibit Taxpayer Funding of Abortion"
- "Cut Government Spending to Pre-Stimulus, Pre-Bailout Levels" (which was originally available as a limited edition 7" single, with the B-side track being a medley of hits from the 80's: "Permanently Stop All Job-Killing Tax Hikes"/"Give Small Businesses a Tax Deduction"/"Rein In the Red Tape Factory in Washington, DC"

Other tracks include, from the legendary "Civil Rights, fuck You" sessions:
"Demand an Overarching Detention Policy: Foreign terrorists do not have the same rights as American citizens, nor do they have more rights than U.S. military personnel. We will work to ensure foreign terrorists, such as the 9/11 conspirators, are tried in military, not civilian, court. We will oppose all efforts to force our military, intelligence, and law enforcement personnel operating overseas to extend “Miranda Rights” to foreign terrorists."

More Classics you love!
- "Fully Fund Missile Defense"
- "Require Tough Enforcement of Sanctions Against Iran" (that one's a cover of a Beach Boys' song, I think - at least based on John McCain's rendition)
- "Establish Operational Control of the Border"

...yeesh. Old wine in old bottles indeed.

EDIT: read it for yourself: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20100922_REPUBS.pdf

The Contract With America was *such* a hit in the 1990's that they're bringing the band back together!
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Democrat Platform:

Uh, we aren't Republicans.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I'll give you that much. It's a choice between fervent corporatism and lukewarm corporatism.

Keep that in mind the next time you think genuine progressivism gets a fair shake in our national discourse or in the media, and keep that in mind next time someone uses the term 'marxist'/'socialist'/etc. to describe and major player in the Democrat party.
 
It's a program that says "We were better off without Obama" and "Healthcare needed to be fixed, but what they passed was terrible"

They really need to slash defense spending, it's friggin ridiculous.
 
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[quote name='dopa345']making a broken health care system worse[/QUOTE]

I need to see someone prove this.

So far forcing insurance companies not to kick you off when you get sick, no preexisting conditions bullshit are some things that are now in effect. I'm not sure how this makes the health care system worse.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I need to see someone prove this.[/quote]

dopa will get right on proving that right after he finishes working on solutions for the problems in our healthcare system.

He has been working on them an awfully long time so I am expecting quite a bit.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I need to see someone prove this.

So far forcing insurance companies not to kick you off when you get sick, no preexisting conditions bullshit are some things that are now in effect. I'm not sure how this makes the health care system worse.[/QUOTE]

I know, its amazing isn't it! The other day, I was able to slide this plastic thing at the register, and they just GAVE me a 60 inch flat screen tv. I mean what could possibly be the repercussions of that?
 
[quote name='Knoell']I know, its amazing isn't it! The other day, I was able to slide this plastic thing at the register, and they just GAVE me a 60 inch flat screen tv. I mean what could possibly be the repercussions of that?[/QUOTE]

So what passes for 'prove it to me with empirical evidence' is this fucking guy:

Gman.jpg


telling me to prepare for unforeseen consequences, which are presumably bad.

Well, I'm persuaded. Thanks for that.
 
[quote name='IRHari']So what passes for 'prove it to me with empirical evidence' is this fucking guy:



telling me to prepare for unforeseen consequences, which are presumably bad.

Well, I'm persuaded. Thanks for that.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of reports that say it is going to cost more than they think. And the opposite as well, we will just have to wait and see if they actually make all the cuts they claim will save them so much money to put this into the black.
 
Last night, the Daily Show’s Jon Stewart offered proof of this “self-reflection” in a video comparing quotes from Contract With America-era Republicans with Republicans at yesterday’s press conference. The compilation spans more than a decade and shows an almost identical repetition of the old Republican talking points:
REP. PETER ROSKAM (R-IL): Reign in the Washington, DC red tape.. [9/23/10]
FORMER REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL): Cut Washington red tape.. [1/3/01]
REP. JEB HANSERLING (R-TX): Act immediately to reduce spending.. [9/23/10]
FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH (R-GA): Have real reforms to reduce spending.. [6/5/98]
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R-UT): Change the way we do business in Washington..[9/23/10]
REP. JIM NUSSLE (R-IA): Change business as usual in Washington..[11/19/94]
ROSKAM: Make the tax cuts permanent.. [9/23/10]
FORMER MAJORITY LEADER DICK ARMEY (R-TX): Make the existing tax cuts permanent [9/15/02]
REP. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): ..health savings accounts that puts the patient firmly in control…[9/23/10]
HASTERT: Health savings accounts which will give families more control.. [8/30/04]
HANSERLING: Reduce the size of our government..[9/23/10]
GINGRICH: ..reducing the size of government.. [9/18/03]
BOEHNER: A smaller, less costly, and more accountable government in our nation’s capital. [9/23/10]
BOEHNER: A smaller, less costly, and more accountable government in Washington. [4/3/98]
​
Click to expand...

More empty promises.
 
What the US needed was single payer, not what we wound up with - both parties are an illusion of choice as the lifers in government become slaves to special interests. Health care will never get fixed because it is too profitable to leave broken.

Viable third parties would actually address a lot of the problems. We are in this false sense of choice situation because people feel like they only have two options - either Democrats or Republicans - because they do. A simple majority wins, so a third party just splits the vote allowing the person you hate to win.

A perfect example of that is the 2008 election for Senator in Minnesota - Al Franken almost lost to Norm Coleman because of the vote split caused by a left-leaning independent, Dean Barkley. Both Coleman and Franken received ~42% of the vote, while Barkley took ~15%. Because Barkley was a former democratic senator (he took over after Paul Wellstone died) most of his votes were from Democrats. Had MN instituted automatic runnoffs - IE, choose a first and second choice at the ballot - The expensive and time consuming legal processes that kept MN without a second senator until 246 days after the election took place could have been avoided entirely and the intentions of the independent voters - having someone left leaning - would have been counted, even though they voted for the other guy.

A federal mandate for automatic runnoffs in any election changes the dynamic of voting - with viable third parties, getting just barely more than the other guy isn't enough anymore because if you don't get 51% of the vote, everyone who voted for the other guys has their second choice count. It would leave people feeling more comfortable voting for a third party candidate, which would force the big two to be more concerned about keeping ALL their constituents happy, rather than just their base, which would result in more legislation that benefited the people.

Making alternative parties viable against the big two would hurt their dominance, so we'll never see automatic runnoffs become law.

All of that is a bit of a tangent.. My point is that both parties suck. GOP is the party of No ideas, the Democrats are a party of poor ideas.
 
That's an excellent idea actually. I'd feel more comfortable voting for a third party if I could have what amounts to a backup choice.
 
[quote name='wakawakawa']It's a program that says "We were better off without Obama" and "Healthcare needed to be fixed, but what they passed was terrible"

They really need to slash defense spending, it's friggin ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Republicans will never ever slash defense spending.
 
So if the Republicans are criticized for not having much of an agenda, isn't it worse that the Democrats have a very obvious agenda that they refuse to run on and mostly attempt to hide?

Maybe that's because they know cap and trade (tax) with a chaser of more stimulus, and a side order of amnesty - isn't exactly a popular platform to most right now.

Best just stick with the "smear the republicans" campaign playbook.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So if the Republicans are criticized for not having much of an agenda, isn't it worse that the Democrats have a very obvious agenda that they refuse to run on and mostly attempt to hide?

Maybe that's because they know cap and trade (tax) with a chaser of more stimulus, and a side order of amnesty - isn't exactly a popular platform to most right now.

Best just stick with the "smear the republicans" campaign playbook.[/QUOTE]

I love the days thrust forgets he is supposed to be anything other than a republican testicle polisher.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I love the days thrust forgets he is supposed to be anything other than a republican testicle polisher.[/QUOTE]

When did you become bipartisan?
 
[quote name='jputahraptor']When did you become bipartisan?[/QUOTE]

It's just amusing to see all the CAG lefties take the mantle of "Oh I could vote for anyone as long as they aren't Republican".

Sadly, you have to do some real squinting to see anyone other than Republicans campaigning with issues instead of smears this election cycle.

I certainly am not defending Republicans, they are 75% Democrat the way I see it anyway. It's just an amusing political turn the landscape has taken.

Can someone point me to the "Issues" Democrats are running under as a party this election? Because if they are really honest about the top three items they want to push, none of them would win, except in California.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']It's just amusing to see all the CAG lefties take the mantle of "Oh I could vote for anyone as long as they aren't Republican".[/quote]

I would have voted for Eisenhower.
 
The Senate is a joke; there are so many rules and traditions that make no sense, yet are touted about like they are law and/or important things.

This fillibuster crap is just a tradition; its not law.. it only works that way because of non-law rules that nobody in the senate wants to change because it often benefits their party's agenda at the expense of actual progress and moving legislation forward.

Msut's link is also absurd - one person's ego allowing everything to be ground to a halt.. because the rules allow for it. The rules are silly, the rules aren't law, the rules should be changed...
 
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[quote name='thrustbucket']Sadly, you have to do some real squinting to see anyone other than Republicans campaigning with issues instead of smears this election cycle.[/QUOTE]

In what universe is pointing out someone wants to privatize social security/medicare or deregulate wall street considered a 'smear'?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']It's just amusing to see all the CAG lefties take the mantle of "Oh I could vote for anyone as long as they aren't Republican".[/QUOTE]

You don't have to attribute that saying to all the progressives on this thread. I said it and I stand by it.

Republicans have never and will never ever give a fuck about anyone but whites. Please don't trot out one or two black guys like that boot licking Uncle Tom Michael Steele and tell me the right gives two shits about us "colored folk".

Republicans will always run on platforms that emphasize the free market at the expense of the environment, minorities, the poor, and anyone else that didn't grow up in lilly white suburbs.

Republicans will continue to jam their Christian beliefs down our throats even though the country wants the freedom to choose and believes in evolution. It doesn't matter. Jebus rules all and they won't stop until we all pray at school, before meetings, at red lights, and before we open a ginormous medical bill.

Republicans will continue to drag us into unnecessary wars in the name of "national security" even though those wars force us to borrow more and more money from China.

Republicans will continue to run on platforms of personal responsibility while banging their advisors, mistresses, boytoys, and anybody else that makes them feel powerful.

Republicans will continue to rail against abortion AND the mothers that don't get abortions. Life is precious until the babies come out and become a drain on our society.

Republicans will continue to rail against illegal immigration while allowing their corporate cronies to hire them en masse.

Republicans will allow the prison industry to get so bloated, that it becomes "too big to fail." We'll continue to jam non-violent drug offenders in there to boost numbers and revenue.

That's the Republican Party platform in a nutshell and I will NEVER vote for anyone that puts an R by their name even if they're just a RINO.
 
People have to transcend the Democrat vs. Republican deception. They are both pretty much on the same team. Have things really changed with Obama in power as opposed to Bush? We are still waging stupid and wasteful wars, we are still committing extrajudicial killings, the patriot act is still in effect, there is still very little confidence in our currency and economy with no hope of recovery in sight, both parties are still getting bribed left and right by lobbyists, our deficit is still growing rapidly.

It's pretty much gotten to the point that aside from voting no on propositions that lead to more spending, it's pretty much pointless to vote. Like in California... am I gonna vote for the senile hippie Jerry Brown or Arnold Schwarzenegger in a skirt Meg Whitman??? Borderline retard Gavin Newsom or traitor Abel Maldonado???
 
That was a thoroughly entertaining rant depascal.

I have never seen someone have such disregard for anyone standing for personal responsibility.

Democrat views on personal responsibility.

"What you got pregnant? Meh shit happens, Just step over here and murder your baby cough fetus"
"What you murdered someone? Don't worry we won't let them execute you, killing people is bad, but only if they are already people"
"What you got pregnant? Just step over here, you require free school!"
"What you got fat from eating too much mcdonalds? Well just step over here, once this law is passed they won't ever force you to eat another cheeseburger."
"What you aren't rich? Just step over here and we will allocate someones elses money to you"
"What you broke the law and are here illegally? Well just step over here! Welcome to San Francisco!"
"What you made alot of mistakes, and don't want to spend your ENTIRE life fixing them? I know what you mean, just step over here, and we will help you bypass all that icky responsibility stuff those evil people always spout off."

Oh yeah and Obama won't support stopping companies from hiring illegals. I guess he is one of the Republican cronies as well then huh? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070800030.html
 
[quote name='BigT']People have to transcend the Democrat vs. Republican deception. They are both pretty much on the same team.[/quote]

Not saying the Democrats don't suck, but the mainstream GOP platform right now is a stunning mix of insanity and what happens when you put party before country.
 
Well if Meg Whitman knowingly kept around her illegal housemaid, Carly Fiorina believes Meg Whitman should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
 
[quote name='Knoell']"What you made alot of mistakes, and don't want to spend your ENTIRE life fixing them? I know what you mean, just step over here, and we will help you bypass all that icky responsibility stuff those evil people always spout off."[/QUOTE]

What the shit are you talking about here?
 
[quote name='IRHari']What the shit are you talking about here?[/QUOTE]

mistakes and their repercussions, care to be more specific? We have entered into an age where we don't have to be responsible for our actions, because theres always an out, or someone else to blame, and modern media gave that blame a voice.

"Sex is great, I should do that all the time"
"Fast food is great, I should eat out all the time"
"Credit cards are great, I should buy stuff like this all the time"

"What I got pregnant? meh theres a quick fix for that"
"What I got fat, and had a heart attack? They shouldn't of fed me"
"What I am in debt? Well you shouldn't be charging me such high interest rates, bankruptcy it is."
 
You know what, fuck that. I am sick and tired of this "age of no repercussions". fuck 20 years ago you could fucking get lost in the country, give everything up and start new. Today your lucky if you can buy a candy bar and not get noticed.

In terms of other areas, I am fucking glad that a woman can get an abortion, instead of dealing with the consequences Cough back alley abrotions that killed countless women in the previous decades.

Fast food is great, however when looking for culprits fast food addiction pails in comparison to the weight that comes from the average sugared drink, like say juice (leading cause of infant obesity) or say processed meats like lunch meat, hot dogs, ground beef, really anything that has been treated in some way (side note a friend of mine worked in a slaughter house, tongue is the cleanest meat in terms of bugs that are present in meat but not deemed a contaminate).

As for bankruptcy, laws since the nineties have made it harder for people to frivolously declare it, bringing more and more repercussions to the borrower.

As nicely as I can put this, you want to live in an antiquated fantasy land, society has only gotten more strict and forced people to pay for their actions. 60 years ago pillars of society beat their wives, people could kill/beat/hang homosexuals and African Americans without impunity. Hell women, who were molested by fathers were called liars and put on medication, being labeled from then on as crazies. Damn, before 3 strikes you could forge checks and not get a life sentence, not the case now.

Hell no there are more repercussion today then ever before. Lastly, it costs more to kill a criminal than to imprison him, and I glad this is the case because one wrongly executed man makes us all murders because we supported the system that allowed it.
 
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[quote name='Knoell']mistakes and their repercussions, care to be more specific? We have entered into an age where we don't have to be responsible for our actions, because theres always an out, or someone else to blame, and modern media gave that blame a voice.

"Sex is great, I should do that all the time"
"Fast food is great, I should eat out all the time"
"Credit cards are great, I should buy stuff like this all the time"

"What I got pregnant? meh theres a quick fix for that"
"What I got fat, and had a heart attack? They shouldn't of fed me"
"What I am in debt? Well you shouldn't be charging me such high interest rates, bankruptcy it is."[/QUOTE]

What the fuck are you talking about. I see that Republican in the burbs using credit WAY more than some brother that can't even get a car loan but your argument sucks big fat donkey balls anyway.

And bankruptcy is a tool for the left? You're so fucking out of left field, you're not even in the same league, man. Go check out a bankruptcy court and then tell me if you think the people there lean to the left, to the right, or if they just include every walk of life imaginable.

It's OK though. In your world, everyone that votes conservative will never accidentally get pregnant or run into a huge medical bill.
 
There are also no gay republicans, just like Iran has no gay people.
 
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[quote name='depascal22']What the fuck are you talking about. I see that Republican in the burbs using credit WAY more than some brother that can't even get a car loan but your argument sucks big fat donkey balls anyway.

And bankruptcy is a tool for the left? You're so fucking out of left field, you're not even in the same league, man. Go check out a bankruptcy court and then tell me if you think the people there lean to the left, to the right, or if they just include every walk of life imaginable.

It's OK though. In your world, everyone that votes conservative will never accidentally get pregnant or run into a huge medical bill.[/QUOTE]

Stop and think for a second that I did not say the left specifically does these things but they strive to allow them.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']You know what, fuck that. I am sick and tired of this "age of no repercussions". fuck 20 years ago you could fucking get lost in the country, give everything up and start new. Today your lucky if you can buy a candy bar and not get noticed.

In terms of other areas, I am fucking glad that a woman can get an abortion, instead of dealing with the consequences Cough back alley abrotions that killed countless women in the previous decades.

Fast food is great, however when looking for culprits fast food addiction pails in comparison to the weight that comes from the average sugared drink, like say juice (leading cause of infant obesity) or say processed meats like lunch meat, hot dogs, ground beef, really anything that has been treated in some way (side note a friend of mine worked in a slaughter house, tongue is the cleanest meat in terms of bugs that are present in meat but not deemed a contaminate).

As for bankruptcy, laws since the nineties have made it harder for people to frivolously declare it, bringing more and more repercussions to the borrower.

As nicely as I can put this, you want to live in an antiquated fantasy land, society has only gotten more strict and forced people to pay for their actions. 60 years ago pillars of society beat their wives, people could kill/beat/hang homosexuals and African Americans without impunity. Hell women, who were molested by fathers were called liars and put on medication, being labeled from then on as crazies. Damn, before 3 strikes you could forge checks and not get a life sentence, not the case now.

Hell no there are more repercussion today then ever before. Lastly, it costs more to kill a criminal than to imprison him, and I glad this is the case because one wrongly executed man makes us all murders because we supported the system that allowed it.[/QUOTE]

I should have stated that human nature has not changed, the majority hardly ever takes responsibility for their actions, it has always been this way. But in this time there is so many different avenues of media to complain, blame, and shift responsibility it is ridiculous. It gives a voice to the various nutballs who are then picked up by major media.

Just sit and watch the news for an hour, and count how many times someones negative actions are vindicated by the news because the blame could theoretically be shifted to someone else.

Such as getting fat from mcdonalds. No it could never be the person enjoying mcdonalds every day's responsibility to eat moderately, lets blame mcdonalds for offering such unhealthy food.

What the person got drunk at YOUR bar and had a dwi accident? Well YOU shouldn't of let them drive, Mr. Bar owner, you may be responsible.

Ok, let's pretend to give you the abortion point. How many women wouldn't of gotten an abortion in a back alley though? Its OK to allow women to kill their unborn children, they just wanted to enjoy sex, without the strings, right? (pssst this is where they arent taking responsibility for their actions. Any guy who abandons the responsibility of what he did is just as guilty) The typical result of unprotected sex is pregnancy, to not take responsibility for the human being you created is GASP irresponsible.

I love your defense of the murder of what would be children, in the same post as your attack on the murder of a possibly innocent convicted murderer.

All of this spreads, and is given voice by common media to be OK to blame someone else.
 
Or blue-collar folks blaming commie nazi black muslim queer Obama and the LIEberals for the financial downturn/recession that started at the end of Bush's term.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Stop and think for a second that I did not say the left specifically does these things but they strive to allow them.[/QUOTE]

And you're full of shit. I'm done with you, dude. You pull so much shit out of your ass, it must hurt to take a dump.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Or blue-collar folks blaming commie nazi black muslim queer Obama and the LIEberals for the financial downturn/recession that started at the end of Bush's term.[/QUOTE]

Or like the "Blame Bush" movement of the few years before that. :roll: I can play that game too. We are talking about personal responsibility.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Knoell, you agree that the murder of George Tiller was absolutely indefensible, right?[/QUOTE]
Not sure why you would ask me this. Of course murder is indefensible. Although he was making abortion more accessible, it is ultimately the individuals job to make the responsible decision to not kill their child. Blaming him would be like blaming mcdonalds. Although I do believe late term abortions should be illegal. That may sound contradictory to my belief in personal responsibility, but this is a case where the government is required to step in and save the life of someone that cannot defend themself.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I should have stated that human nature has not changed, the majority hardly ever takes responsibility for their actions, it has always been this way. But in this time there is so many different avenues of media to complain, blame, and shift responsibility it is ridiculous. It gives a voice to the various nutballs who are then picked up by major media.

Just sit and watch the news for an hour, and count how many times someones negative actions are vindicated by the news because the blame could theoretically be shifted to someone else.

Such as getting fat from mcdonalds. No it could never be the person enjoying mcdonalds every day's responsibility to eat moderately, lets blame mcdonalds for offering such unhealthy food.

What the person got drunk at YOUR bar and had a dwi accident? Well YOU shouldn't of let them drive, Mr. Bar owner, you may be responsible.

Ok, let's pretend to give you the abortion point. How many women wouldn't of gotten an abortion in a back alley though? Its OK to allow women to kill their unborn children, they just wanted to enjoy sex, without the strings, right? (pssst this is where they arent taking responsibility for their actions. Any guy who abandons the responsibility of what he did is just as guilty) The typical result of unprotected sex is pregnancy, to not take responsibility for the human being you created is GASP irresponsible.

I love your defense of the murder of what would be children, in the same post as your attack on the murder of a possibly innocent convicted murderer.

All of this spreads, and is given voice by common media to be OK to blame someone else.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry, but I do not believe biological eggs to be people to be human nor children. I believe consciousness is required to have a right to life, yes this cuts both ways before you go down that path.
 
[quote name='Knoell']
I love your defense of the murder of what would be children, in the same post as your attack on the murder of a possibly innocent convicted murderer.[/QUOTE]

Great pickup!

The hypocrisy is quite comical... God forbid that we kill someone who we are 99.9% sure committed heinous crimes (violent rapes and murders), but hey let's just discard a helpless embryo.

On average, people currently on death row are probably bad people... heck, I've never even had as much as a parking ticket to my name... so it would seem to me that it would take some effort to get there... I do, however, have some reservations about giving the government a right to carry our capital punishment since I have very little faith in them and fear that it can be used at some point in time to punish/eliminate political enemies...

I admit, the embryo/fetus issue is tough. I don't think that it is possible to prove that an embryo is not a human being. The basic genetic structure is there. The criterion of "consciousness" proposed later in this thread is quite vague and also unprovable. Thus, it is my belief that it us impossible to assert that abortion is not a murderous act. I just have to err on the side of caution on this issue. And, hey, why do we draw the line at 24 or so weeks? Is it because it is more disturbing to kill something that more clearly resembles a human being? Does that really matter? Little babies can't really fend for themselves, nor is their nervous system, and arguably, their consciousness fully developed... so why don't we draw the line for "abortion" at 3 months after birth or perhaps 6 months... should we base it on developmental milestones?

In case you guys don't notice, I'm using a bit of hyperbole above to make a point... it's not necessarily an argument meant to be taken literally...
 
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