Govt Buildings Bombed In Oslo

Depends on who does it right? If it's a muslim it's terrorism, if it's a white guy it's justified anger against a tyrannical government.
 
I'm thinking of the IRS bomber last year, and the curious reactions to it. I'd be interested to see if other countries would have the same differing reactions.
 
As all Muslims are pulling a Chris Rock saying, "please don't let it be a muslim, please don't let it be a muslim".
 
[quote name='Twitter'] @tinyrevolution Jonathan Schwarz
I like being white because I don't have to release a statement condemning it whenever some white guy kills people

[/QUOTE]

Agree/Disagree?
 
There are rumours that the death total is over 80, most of them being children.

Fake edit: Confirmed.

Feeling a mixture of shame/disgust/anger right now. I'll be back in the morning to check on this thread. I need to vomit and then ly dow.
 
Just terrible. My aunt and uncle actually arrived in Oslo this morning on vacation. Great timing, huh?

It's unconscionable that there's someone in the world screwed up enough to open fire on a group of not just innocent people, but children. There's really nothing to say.
 
Wow, there's some high-class here. Reminds me of right after the Giffords shooting when everyone couldn't wait to spout their anti-Republican, anti-conservative, anti-Tea Party bile.

Can we at least wait until the bodies of the dead have cooled before we start cracking jokes and pointing fingers?
 
This is terrible. Something has to be terribly wrong with you to be able to continuously gun down more than 80 people who are running for their lives.

However in light of the other topic of the death penalty, he probably has a tumor. So he should be checked out, taken care of and released right? How about not. Off with his god damn head.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Agree/Disagree?[/QUOTE]
Depends. Did he kill people because he was white?

Just being pedantic...

This should prove interesting though. The suspect is claimed to be right-wing, Christian, and a video gamer.
 
[quote name='Allnatural']Depends. Did he kill people because he was white?

Just being pedantic...

This should prove interesting though. The suspect is claimed to be right-wing, Christian, and a video gamer.[/QUOTE]

And a lover of Israel as well as a hardline multiculturalist and avowed anti-nationalist.

Just a hunch, but he may have had a screw loose.
 
oh christ they're going to blame it on Quake...

Not much coming out about the guy yet. He's totally off the radar according to the Yahoo! story I just read, but at least he was captured. Of course they describe him as having "right wing" views, but over there that's basically as fascist as Obama (read: not very).

I've got to say that I find this extremely exciting and interesting from a psychology perspective, which conflicts with the anger/disgust over the fact that it happened in the first place. It's a strange emotional juxtaposition I tell ya.
 
[quote name='nasum']Not much coming out about the guy yet.[/QUOTE]

You are quite mistaken. People have gone so far as to dig up his WoW account. From many sources compiled at reddit:

About the shooter:
He has been arrested and is being questioned by the police. This is what I have been able to gather of info so far. Police are still considering the possibility that he did not act alone.

  • Name: Anders Behring Breivik
  • Age 32
  • Ethnic Norwegian
  • Considers himself a nationalist
  • Interviewed childhood friends says he turned extreme right wing towards the end of his 20s.
  • No earlier crimes and is unknown to the police
  • Considers himself conservative Christian
  • Started a company in 2009 called Geofarm and stated it would do farming. Using this company he got access to a lot of artifical fertilizers (means that this has been planned for some time)
  • Created a Twitter account 1 month ago and has only tweeted one tweet: «One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests»
  • Has been very active on online communities against "internationalism" (Document.no is one such site and has published all of his posts as a response to the events - norsk
    /english
  • Has strong opinions against immigrants, especially muslims
  • Is member of a pistol club and is a registered gun owner - has 2 registered guns
  • Lived most his life in Oslo (west side), but recently moved to Hedemark (further north)
  • Freemasonry member
  • Was a member of FrpU, the youth wing of Frp.
Click to expand...
Note source #154 at the Wiki page.

edit: Copy of his facebook profile here.

highlight:
14 500 hours of study equivalent to B.B.A, M.P.S, MHist + aprox. 3000 hours of study in micro and macro finance, religion+
Click to expand...

Yikes.
 
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Yeah, its pretty much confirmed that he's a right-wing wacko. The only question right now is whether or not he acted alone or if it was a concerted effort. Islamophobia has pretty much been globalized as well as the right-ward tipping of European governments, so it isn't a huge surprise that there are racist elements, but when something of this magnitude happens, it's pretty damned alarming. If it can happen in a place like Norway, the third happiest country in the world, it can happen literally anywhere.

edit: Oh and bob, you can compare the Gifford coverage if you want, but those on the left don't blame everyone on the right, unlike how a large portion of the right blames all Muslims who then go to try and make laws and policies targeting them. There's a big difference there.
 
But when we refer to him as a "right wing nationalist", is that within the context of European politics, or American politics, because there's a world of difference. When I think of right wing nationalism in a European context, I think Aryan Nation Skinhead Neo Nazi types, who may actually be dangerous and violent, as opposed to an American right wing nationalist who could be someone like Rush Limbaugh who is loud and expresses conservative pro-US opinions, but is otherwise harmless.
 
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[quote name='spmahn']But when we refer to him as a "right wing nationalist", is that within the context of European politics, or American politics, because there's a world of difference. When I think of right wing nationalism in a European context, I think Aaryn Nation Skinhead Neo Nazi types, who may actually be dangerous and violent, as opposed to an American right wing nationalist who could be someone like Rush Limbaugh who is loud and expresses conservative pro-US opinions, but is otherwise harmless.[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely correct, I was just being a little vague considering how I wasn't sure about the knowledge bob has of international politics and how he used left/right in his own context. Although, I do have to disagree with the harmlessness of Limbaugh.;)
 
[quote name='spmahn']But when we refer to him as a "right wing nationalist", is that within the context of European politics, or American politics, because there's a world of difference. When I think of right wing nationalism in a European context, I think Aryan Nation Skinhead Neo Nazi types, who may actually be dangerous and violent, as opposed to an American right wing nationalist who could be someone like Rush Limbaugh who is loud and expresses conservative pro-US opinions, but is otherwise harmless.[/QUOTE]

A better example of US right wing nationalist would be Pat Buchanan, I'd say.
 
So I happen to talk to quite a few Norske (and assorted other Skando) people online. This was a ridiculously thorough plan to deny this mans perceived enemies their next generation of leadership and to start off even more violence.

This was not the work of a literal crazy person.
 
Been talking to a few Swedes and Nordes on other forums, they're saying he hated nationalists, homophobes, etc; that he wanted everyone united against Islam.

So, basically, he's a neocon.

The neocons should pinch some more incense into the brazier as they pray to their god of mass murder. They're going to need it.
 
Terrible tragedy and not really anything for the vs. forum. The guy was sick regardless of his political views and doesn't make anyone look good or bad.
 
He is sick, but his political views were a very big part of his motivation.

Also, there are cons here and in scandoland who are saying this is some false flag operation to make cons look bad. It took about 5 seconds after they figured out it wasn't Muslims to switch to this and other nonsense.
 
[quote name='dohdough']edit: Oh and bob, you can compare the Gifford coverage if you want, but those on the left don't blame everyone on the right, unlike how a large portion of the right blames all Muslims who then go to try and make laws and policies targeting them. There's a big difference there.[/quote]

Ha, yeah right it has already begun. (At least on here).

Here is a question, Would a conservative american that is living in scandenavia teaching conservative views, be wrong to go build a youth camp for conservatives a mile from the place this happened?
 
[quote name='Msut77']He is sick, but his political views were a very big part of his motivation.

Also, there are cons here and in scandoland who are saying this is some false flag operation to make cons look bad. It took about 5 seconds after they figured out it wasn't Muslims to switch to this and other nonsense.[/QUOTE]
For the first time in many years, I went to Free Republic and read their thread. It was insane how fast the gears changed when brohim's identity came out.
[quote name='Knoell']Ha, yeah right it has already begun. (At least on here).

Here is a question, Would a conservative american that is living in scandenavia teaching conservative views, be wrong to go build a youth camp for conservatives a mile from the place this happened?[/QUOTE]
Ask again in 10 years.
 
[quote name='Msut77']He is sick, but his political views were a very big part of his motivation.

Also, there are cons here and in scandoland who are saying this is some false flag operation to make cons look bad. It took about 5 seconds after they figured out it wasn't Muslims to switch to this and other nonsense.[/QUOTE]

If he's sick, does it matter what his political views were? He was going to go off no matter what. There would've been no debating him.

As for cons here, who cares? Using any of this for political gain or loss is just sad.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Ha, yeah right it has already begun. (At least on here).

Here is a question, Would a conservative american that is living in scandenavia teaching conservative views, be wrong to go build a youth camp for conservatives a mile from the place this happened?[/QUOTE]
WTF are you talking about? Did anyone here say that it MUST be because everyone on the right is a militant racist? If anything, this thread is pretty tame considering the usual griping whenever something like this happens except for you and bob's pre-emptive unwarranted defensiveness.

We all know that if it was a Muslim person that everyone would be talking about how we should lock them all up, Islam is an inherently violent religion, and that we should turn the Middle-East into glass, so fuck off with your bullshit.

And WTF does conservative have to do with anything? Are you literally arguing that having a Hitler Youth Camp is the same as building a fucking mosque?
 
[quote name='dohdough']WTF are you talking about? Did anyone here say that it MUST be because everyone on the right is a militant racist? If anything, this thread is pretty tame considering the usual griping whenever something like this happens except for you and bob's pre-emptive unwarranted defensiveness.

We all know that if it was a Muslim person that everyone would be talking about how we should lock them all up, Islam is an inherently violent religion, and that we should turn the Middle-East into glass, so fuck off with your bullshit.

And WTF does conservative have to do with anything? Are you literally arguing that having a Hitler Youth Camp is the same as building a fucking mosque?[/QUOTE]

Well according to these guys, this jackass represents the key talking points of neoconservatism. His views are shared by some therefore has actions must also reflect their views. This is wrong. You can go ahead and say dangerous people such as this guy, use neoconservatism to manipulate people into doing such things, but the ideals of neoconservative do not represent blowing things up and shooting kids. It is kinda like how crappy people are using Islam eh?

Funny thing is, that if I was in Scandenavia I would advocate highlighting neocons in their country to make sure this isn't a widespread thing and that it won't happen again.

As for speedracer, you would have bowed to the inherent bigotry and intolerance you claim this to be and opposed a mosque there a little less then ten years ago? (if it were possible to build it there at the time). Somehow I doubt that.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Well according to these guys, this jackass represents the key talking points of neoconservatism. His views are shared by some therefore has actions must also reflect their views. This is wrong. You can go ahead and say dangerous people such as this guy, use neoconservatism to manipulate people into doing such things, but the ideals of neoconservative do not represent blowing things up and shooting kids. It is kinda like how crappy people are using Islam eh?

Funny thing is, that if I was in Scandenavia I would advocate highlighting neocons in their country to make sure this isn't a widespread thing and that it won't happen again.

As for speedracer, you would have bowed to the inherent bigotry and intolerance you claim this to be and opposed a mosque there a little less then ten years ago? (if it were possible to build it there at the time). Somehow I doubt that.[/QUOTE]
Holy fuck balls. You literally do not know what neoconservatism is. Violence is a basic tenet of neoconservatism. WTF do you think happens in nation-building when seeking to install a US-friendly government? Unless you're willing to group Christianity with Islam in regards to violent content, your argument still fails.

In Europe, you don't have to speak out against them. Its painfully obvious who the violent racist nationalists are and they're already shunned. That's why they hold virtually no institutional power there. Compared to most of Europe, we virtually live in a white supremacist's paradise.
 
This guys mindset and actions is what happens when you take all the insane shit cons say seriously. You float years of crap about sharia law taking over and traitor Hippie commie libs enabling them and ruining everything besides and this is what you get.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Ha, yeah right it has already begun. (At least on here).

Here is a question, Would a conservative american that is living in scandenavia teaching conservative views, be wrong to go build a youth camp for conservatives a mile from the place this happened?[/QUOTE]

No. They wouldn't be wrong to do that at all as long as they were in an appropriately zoned area and had received goverment approval...And you're an idiot.
 
[quote name='Knoell']As for speedracer, you would have bowed to the inherent bigotry and intolerance you claim this to be and opposed a mosque there a little less then ten years ago? (if it were possible to build it there at the time). Somehow I doubt that.[/QUOTE]
I didn't claim anything dude. My point was that time heals all wounds. And a right wing American (it's kind of strange to make this an American style right wing thing, but ok I guess?) Christian church a mile down the road that was built with the express purpose of an outreach to the local population in order to repudiate the actions of this nut wouldn't be a bad thing.

Would it?
 
This discussion shows a key difference between the liberals and conservatives who post here.

Liberals are mostly consistent in their views.

I'd have no problem with a conservative christian church being built near this "ground zero" as I know this one nut job and his ilk aren't representative of the majority of the conservative christian faith.

Just like I have no problems with the ground zero mosque in NYC as Al Qaeda terrorists aren't representative of Islam.

And I say that as an atheist who think's that religion is fucking stupid in the first place. But I support a free world and people's right to have their own beliefs. So I'd never oppose a religious building from being constructed as long as it was approved through the same channels (zoning etc.) that any other new building would go through. Where as many of the conservative regulars seem to just want to disallow things that don't mesh with their world view.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']This discussion shows a key difference between the liberals and conservatives who post here.[/QUOTE]

I think it's unfair to paint it as liberal/conservative. I think it's just rational/irrational (I know, I know, I'm opening the door for people to say "exactly"). I'm more conservative than most on these forums, but in real life outside of this political ecosystem, I'm all over the spectrum politically-thus my non-allegiance as an independent. I'm sure there were liberals, particularly in NY who were strongly opposed to the mosque in NYC. Hell, some of the democratic politicians came out to make their opposition known.

It's unfair to even call it an analogy by Knoell because he adds these conditions that make it an even bigger stretch (an American wants to open up a church...-I may be mistaken, but I believe the imam, and the financiers of the NYC mosque and community center were American citizens), but to create this hypothetical situation to compare to is astoundingly stupid.

If a person really wanted to find cause to gripe, one could say the coverage of this terrorist attack has been far less than if Peter King's wet dream happened, and this was indeed carried out by muslims. I haven't heard from local churches and Norweigian nationals about how this guy doesn't represent all of them-probably because most of us are smart enough to realize it's a fringe group of xenophobic idiots, and not indicative of all Christian, all Norwegians, or all political conservatives.
 
Liberal/Social Conservative would be a better way to put it I suppose.

Social conservatives are all about opposing things that don't fit with their world view and have no problems restricting freedoms of things they don't like.

Where as most liberals will defend things like free speech even if it's stuff they loathe like the Phelps family's funeral protests etc.

"Freedom" is only real if it's applied across the board and not just to those we agree with.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I would advocate highlighting neocons in their country to make sure this isn't a widespread thing and that it won't happen again.[/QUOTE]

Please explain to us how you would accomplish this, and how that 'highlighting' would prevent someone from doing something like this again.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Please explain to us how you would accomplish this, and how that 'highlighting' would prevent someone from doing something like this again.[/QUOTE]

Ha, they already do over there, the only reason they didn't know about this guy was because he was not related to any of the groups or people they did monitor. If he was associated with those groups, buying the materials he was would have thrown up a red flag.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']This discussion shows a key difference between the liberals and conservatives who post here.

Liberals are mostly consistent in their views.

So I'd never oppose a religious building from being constructed as long as it was approved through the same channels (zoning etc.) that any other new building would go through. Where as many of the conservative regulars seem to just want to disallow things that don't mesh with their world view.[/QUOTE]

I think if the community around the area and the victims spoke, I would expect said christian church to take them into consideration, and not flip out about Scandenavias version of the first amendment and people oppressing them. (if they have one, I have no idea)

Regardless it was stupid to bring up. Moving on.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Ha, they already do over there, the only reason they didn't know about this guy was because he was not related to any of the groups or people they did monitor. If he was associated with those groups, buying the materials he was would have thrown up a red flag.[/QUOTE]

Explain what that 'highlighting' entails, I haven't heard about it. Would you advocate doing something like that here? Do you think that would stop attacks like this, and if so, how?
 
[quote name='berzirk']
If a person really wanted to find cause to gripe, one could say the coverage of this terrorist attack has been far less than if Peter King's wet dream happened, and this was indeed carried out by muslims. I haven't heard from local churches and Norweigian nationals about how this guy doesn't represent all of them-probably because most of us are smart enough to realize it's a fringe group of xenophobic idiots, and not indicative of all Christian, all Norwegians, or all political conservatives.[/QUOTE]

This is because this guy was not a religious fanatic. Do all neocon groups have to come out and condemn these things?
 
I don't care if they condemn anything, they can just stop the poison rhetoric that feeds this kind of violence and i would be happy.
 
[quote name='Knoell']This is because this guy was not a religious fanatic. Do all neocon groups have to come out and condemn these things?[/QUOTE]

I seem to remember several people in the NYC Mosque thread complaining that Muslims weren't speaking out against terrorism and specifically the 9/11 attacks. The guy was an admitted Christian. Wouldn't that make him a Christian Terrorist, just like any Muslim who commits violence is then a Muslim Terrorist? I know you see me explaining the double-standard, it's just interesting to see your response, and many in the world media when it comes to light that this killer was "one of our own".
 
This cat loved him some American right-wing talk radio.

I can't be arsed to find the myriad links now. But if you think that he listened to shows you (as a conservative) would not, well...you may be fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me.
 
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