Has the whole world gone mad-does anybody give a...

berzirk

berzirk

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...shit about the rules? OK, Big Lebowski quote, but it seems like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is really a non-issue here right now. I get that the new media buzzword is fiscal cliff, and that's what's most important (?) to Americans right now, but does anyone else feel like this very significant international conflict is deserving of more attention, empathy, or emotional capital?

My stance on it is probably pretty well known, but I'm curious if my background is what makes me care more about this than the average cheapass videogame players who dabble in political issues.
 
*shrug* I've read more about Gaza and Israel than the fiscal cliff these past two or three days.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Hamas shouldn't have fired rockets in to Israel. Don't fuck around with the big boys of you don't want to deal with the consequences.[/QUOTE]

But Israel has an open invitation to assassinate anyone they declare a terrorist? Rockets gotta stop, but political assassination is so 1960's.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']They are just following our wonderful example.[/QUOTE]

So anybody who wants to retaliate with an attack on American soil, from a country who had a political leader assassinated by us is justified? If so, then it would appear that the Palestinians response is perfectly acceptable. (which it's not)

Maybe if we bring the Palestinians democracy, and they can elect their own leaders, then we'll finally stop meddling...oh wait...they didn't elect the right democratically elected leaders. I always forget about the fine print in our declaration of export on all the democracy we ship throughout the earth.
 
Well, when the myth about the formation state of Israel is based on altruism rather than the truth of it being created to destabilize the area and racism against Jews, is it really that big of a surprise? Add in biblical stuff about the apocalypse wiping them all out first and I don't think I need to say anymore.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Well, when the myth about the formation state of Israel is based on altruism rather than the truth of it being created to destabilize the area and racism against Jews, is it really that big of a surprise?[/QUOTE]

cite?
 
[quote name='yourlefthand']cite?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I agree with 100% of Doh's uncharacteristic short reply :p but with respect to the myth of altruism in the creation of Israel, the Balfour Declaration in 1917 established the goal to create: a national homeland for the Jewish people [and for the British to-wait for it]...use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

So that seems straightforward and humanitarian enough. I wonder what the demographic landscape was like around 1917...oh, there's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(mandate)#British_censuses_and_estimations

Ahh hell, the table I pasted in went to crap. Just go to the link above.

So the goal was to create this homeland in an area that was nearly 90% non-Jewish, without doing anything that would negatively impact those 90%. In a word: impossible.
 
I think it needs to be said that Palestine was a British colony with all the bad stuff it implies. Call me crazy, but I don't think that people living there appreciated being colonized by the Brits.

The question I'm asking is why Jewish people needed their own state to begin with and the answer is because of wide-spread anti-semitism especially in Europe. Easiest way to get rid of them is to dump them in some shithole. Only problem is that you couldn't exactly put them in reservations like the US did to Native Americans.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I think it needs to be said that Palestine was a British colony with all the bad stuff it implies. Call me crazy, but I don't think that people living there appreciated being colonized by the Brits.

The question I'm asking is why Jewish people needed their own state to begin with and the answer is because of wide-spread anti-semitism especially in Europe. Easiest way to get rid of them is to dump them in some shithole. Only problem is that you couldn't exactly put them in reservations like the US did to Native Americans.[/QUOTE]

And that I agree with 100%!

Even more despicable, the Palestinian arabs (primarily the Muslims) were recruited to fight the Ottomans to help the Brits defeat the Ottoman Empire. Upon doing so, they were effectively promised to have sovereignity and be independent. Instead they got hit with word that a vocal minority was going to have a country in their orange groves because they were lobbying the right folks in England, while the Palestinians were shedding blood staging a supported coup. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Great Britain's colonization is the root of probably 3/4's of the global socio-political issues we have today. fuck the Queen and her damn undies.
 
[quote name='berzirk']And that I agree with 100%!

Even more despicable, the Palestinian arabs (primarily the Muslims) were recruited to fight the Ottomans to help the Brits defeat the Ottoman Empire. Upon doing so, they were effectively promised to have sovereignity and be independent. Instead they got hit with word that a vocal minority was going to have a country in their orange groves because they were lobbying the right folks in England, while the Palestinians were shedding blood staging a supported coup. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Great Britain's colonization is the root of probably 3/4's of the global socio-political issues we have today. fuck the Queen and her damn undies.[/QUOTE]
And this is why history matters.

At first I thought you were being generous with only giving them 75%, but I think it's fair to give the US a good share of the rest of that imperialist pie.
 
Americans don't care about this stuff. Benghazi, another world news bore, was hardly a blip on the radar during the election. Sandy made a bigger impact because it hit closer to home.

I personally don't care about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict either. I have a hard time understanding what it's about even after reading about it so much and think they should sort out their own problems. They all look the same to me.

The only real thing I know about the conflict is not to comment about it in polite company if you criticize the Israeli faction. It's almost as bad as wearing a Giants jersey to a Dodgers game. Careers have been decimated after criticizing Jews. I will never say a bad word about them.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I'm not sure I agree with 100% of Doh's uncharacteristic short reply :p but with respect to the myth of altruism in the creation of Israel, the Balfour Declaration in 1917 established the goal to create: a national homeland for the Jewish people [and for the British to-wait for it]...use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

So that seems straightforward and humanitarian enough. I wonder what the demographic landscape was like around 1917...oh, there's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(mandate)#British_censuses_and_estimations

Ahh hell, the table I pasted in went to crap. Just go to the link above.

So the goal was to create this homeland in an area that was nearly 90% non-Jewish, without doing anything that would negatively impact those 90%. In a word: impossible.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dohdough']I think it needs to be said that Palestine was a British colony with all the bad stuff it implies. Call me crazy, but I don't think that people living there appreciated being colonized by the Brits.

The question I'm asking is why Jewish people needed their own state to begin with and the answer is because of wide-spread anti-semitism especially in Europe. Easiest way to get rid of them is to dump them in some shithole. Only problem is that you couldn't exactly put them in reservations like the US did to Native Americans.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='berzirk']And that I agree with 100%!

Even more despicable, the Palestinian arabs (primarily the Muslims) were recruited to fight the Ottomans to help the Brits defeat the Ottoman Empire. Upon doing so, they were effectively promised to have sovereignity and be independent. Instead they got hit with word that a vocal minority was going to have a country in their orange groves because they were lobbying the right folks in England, while the Palestinians were shedding blood staging a supported coup. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Great Britain's colonization is the root of probably 3/4's of the global socio-political issues we have today. fuck the Queen and her damn undies.[/QUOTE]

Interesting perspective. I'm going to have to do a little more reading. That whole issue was (unsurprisingly) glossed over in my history classes.
 
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