Hmmm...Who's at fault with this Ebay auction?

maccabee72

maccabee72

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So, I sold my copy of Heroes Season 1 HDDVD on Ebay the other day. My auction clearly states that I will only accept payment and ship to US Confirmed addresses. Well, the guy sent me payment and I shipped to the confirmed address on his account. He sent me an E-mail today saying it was delivered to the wrong address. He pointed out to me that he put a little note in the note section saying to mail it to another address. I went back and checked and the note was indeed there. The guy said he doesn't believe it will be forwarded to him and wants reimbursement. Delivery confirmation confirms delivery to the confirmed address....so what do you guys think I should do?
 
I had that happen to me once but luckily the confirmed address on his paypal account was his dads or something so it worked out. That's a tough call. He's at fault for not paying attention to the terms of the auction but you're also somewhat responsible for not catching the address note before shipping.

How big was the note? Seems like it was pretty small if you didn't catch it until after he pointed it out. Did he say what the confirmed address was (old address, relatives address, friends address, etc...)?
 
Paypal would side with you. Asking to ship to an address other than the confirmed address is asking you to forfeit your seller protection.

Apologize for not noticing and mention that you are not supposed to ship to anything other than the confirmed address.
 
Technically, you fufilled your end of the deal. You shipped to a confirmed address. I would ask the person to be patient and hope the package is forwarded to the new address or returned to you.

I might just clear my cash out of Paypal for a bit just in case.
 
I had this exact same thing happen to me recently. I told the guy that I could only ship to a confirmed address. He put a note in there to ship to another address. I told him that I would ship to his confirmed address only. It ended up being fine in his case.

It's not your problem he didn't know how to make his second shipping address become a confirmed address. People are unaware that you can confirm a shipping address like that, that is different than your billing address.

As long as you have proof of delivery confirmation, I wouldn't worry about a chargeback. You shipped directly as you stated you were going to in your auction. That's why the confirmed address is there, to protect both the buyer and seller from something like this happening.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']I had that happen to me once but luckily the confirmed address on his paypal account was his dads or something so it worked out. That's a tough call. He's at fault for not paying attention to the terms of the auction but you're also somewhat responsible for not catching the address note before shipping.

How big was the note? Seems like it was pretty small if you didn't catch it until after he pointed it out. Did he say what the confirmed address was (old address, relatives address, friends address, etc...)?[/quote]

It was in the note section that you can put in which I never check as I only shipped to confirmed address. It basically tells me to ship to this other address and that he has the correct address listed on Ebay, but not on PayPal. If i would have caught it, I still wouldn't have shipped to that address as I would lose my seller protection, but I would have E-mailed him to let him know. Anyway, he didn't tell me what the address was, just that it probably wouldn't be forwarded to him.

I think if he doesn't get it, I'm going to ask him to put in a PayPal dispute, and we can let an arbitrator decide. I feel like he and I are both to blame and I would be happy to go with PayPal's ruling, but I don't think I should just send him a refund before that.

[quote name='ZForce915']Paypal would side with you. Asking to ship to an address other than the confirmed address is asking you to forfeit your seller protection.

Apologize for not noticing and mention that you are not supposed to ship to anything other than the confirmed address.[/quote]

Those were my initial thoughts and that's exactly what I did...still waiting to hear back from him.
 
I think that was the same thing the guy did in my case (put a note in the notes section) and I didn't catch it.

His fault for trying to get you to ship to a non-confirmed address. He can either be patient and hope the package gets forwarded or file a dispute (which it sounds like you would win).

He needs to keep his account up-to-date. It's an F up on his end.
 
Thanks for the input guys. It reaffirms how I feel on the matter. I'll update when I hear more.

Edit: My only worry though is that my perfect Ebay Rating (339-0-0) is going to take it's first Neg over this....Sucks!!
 
[quote name='maccabee72']Thanks for the input guys. It reaffirms how I feel on the matter. I'll update when I hear more.

Edit: My only worry though is that my perfect Ebay Rating (339-0-0) is going to take it's first Neg over this....Sucks!![/quote]

Yeah hopefully he won't be a cock gobbler about it and hit you with a negative. I would ask him if he still lives near that address and/or still knows the person living there. That way if it was delivered maybe he can pick it up from them.
 
The chance of receiving a negative is exponentially greater when a payment disputed is escalated via Paypal, your only recourse when receiving a negative feedback in a situation like this is to respond in kind (in a professional, factual manner.) Then, say after three or four days, initiate the mutual feedback withdrawal process. eBay is actually encouraging sellers into this action, although in an oblique manner, when negative or neutral feedback is given for a transaction.

Also, while everyone is correct in this thread about shipping only to a confirmed address, the buyer could easily win the dispute if he states the item is significantly not as described - which may seem ridiculous as that situation isn't applicable here but that doesn't really matter.

I would recommend two courses of action: first, attempt to ascertain, in a very round about way mind you, how knowledgeable the buyer is about his charge back rights; second, attempt to contact the receiver of the package, perhaps even the post office responsible for delivery, to see if you can nip the situation in the bud and either redirect the package or have it returned to you.
 
If he wanted it shipped to a different address then he should have used a confirmed shipping address. Putting it in the note doesn't count towards shit IMO.

Just the neg if you have to. A few negs hardly hurts the bids you get. I mean, I buy from sellers as low as 97% rating- usually it's some ass being... an ass. I don't think most people get scared by a few negs unless it happens in a series or consistently.
 
I'd just throw glitter in his face and then run to the nearest GS and kick over their magazine rack. Some how some way GS is involved..... dun dun dun....
 
[quote name='Silent Assassin120']I'd just throw glitter in his face and then run to the nearest GS and kick over their magazine rack. Some how some way GS is involved..... dun dun dun....[/quote]


LOL :roll:
 
So the payment had his confirmed address listed as the ship-to address and he just put this 2nd address in the note?

Yeah it's crappy but you didin't notice that other address in the note so he's screwed unless he can somehow get the game from his old place. PayPal lets you change the address on an individual payment and he should have done that rather than rely on the note.

I'd have responded that you did not see the note but will work with him if the package is returned to you via the USPS. Other than that there is nothing you can do.

Sort of an aside but if I were in your shoes and did notice the note I would have contacted him that you will only ship to the ship-to address on the payment and it must be confirmed as mentioned in your listing. He can either repay after confirming that 2nd address or you can just ship to the address in his original payment.

The one thing that could screw you here (that I can see) is if he files a chargeback with his credit card for item not received and then PayPal just rolls over.
 
I've gotten several of these lately - I have my Paypal account set to only accept payments with confirmed addresses, but it's like people are trying to get around it. I always look for the notes, and when I've gotten one I've just refunded the money and told them to resend after confirming the new address. A couple got huffy about it, but most did what I asked after I quoted my auction terms, which state that I only ship to confirmed addresses. Nobody bothers to read terms when they bid.

It's worth checking all Paypal payments for notes because you'll sometimes get notes making other demands, like "I expect this to be shipped immediately and by Priority Mail!" (when they paid for less than Priority) and other such nonsense. You'll want to deal with that crap before it becomes a problem.
 
[quote name='elmyra']I've gotten several of these lately - I have my Paypal account set to only accept payments with confirmed addresses, but it's like people are trying to get around it. [/quote]

I'm going to be putting a bunch of stuff on eBay shortly. Sorry to sidetrack, but do you have any idea why people want to do this? I didn't think confirming your address was that big of a deal.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I'm going to be putting a bunch of stuff on eBay shortly. Sorry to sidetrack, but do you have any idea why people want to do this? I didn't think confirming your address was that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]

A legitimate reason could be the person buying it as a gift and wanting it shipped directly to the recipient. Although many sellers are going to include an invoice lisitng the price. Or the buyer is at college and can't confirm their dorm address since their credit card bill is sent to their permanent home.

And you might not be able to confirm any address if you don't have a credit card linked at all. (e.g. you fund it via selling stuff to others or from a bank account.) Not 100% sure on that.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I'm going to be putting a bunch of stuff on eBay shortly. Sorry to sidetrack, but do you have any idea why people want to do this? I didn't think confirming your address was that big of a deal.[/quote]

Paypal's Seller Protection Policy:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/securitycenter/sell/SellerPPOverview-outside

Excerpt:
Item is shipped to an eligible address. For your transaction to qualify, you must ship the item to an eligible address. PayPal is continually working to increase the number of eligible buyer addresses. To determine shipping address eligibility, refer to the shipping address area of your Transaction Details page.

Note how it doesn't say to refer to the "Notes" part of the Transaction Details page. Sellers are supposedly protected if shipping to a confirmed address, but Paypal will still roll on you if the buyer is a jerk and files a SNAD explanation or files a credit card chargeback.

But if a seller ships to an unconfirmed address or an address in the Notes, that seller is doing so at their own risk. If the buyer doesn't get it then you're at Paypal's mercy in the event of a dispute, even if you provide DC#.

When I began selling, I had one instance of someone posting a question if I would ship to a US address even if the payment was received through a Canadian Paypal amount. I was wise enough to answer the question in the negative to avoid any potential headaches.
 
[quote name='wubb']A legitimate reason could be the person buying it as a gift and wanting it shipped directly to the recipient. Although many sellers are going to include an invoice lisitng the price. Or the buyer is at college and can't confirm their dorm address since their credit card bill is sent to their permanent home.[/quote]
Yeah, those are two of the common reasons. The last one I had was a guy who moved and didn't bother to update his address with Paypal. I still don't ship under any of those circumstances, even if they're probably okay. Why take chances?.

And you might not be able to confirm any address if you don't have a credit card linked at all. (e.g. you fund it via selling stuff to others or from a bank account.) Not 100% sure on that.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you can still use the old method, where they send you a code via snail-mail and you have to enter it on the website once it arrives.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback guys. I have been dealing on Ebay for 8 years now and believe it or not, this my first real problem. My feedback is 339-0-0. I really never check the payment E-mail that is sent to me because it clearly states in all my auctions that I can only accept payments from and ship to confirmed US addresses, so I always go straight to the packing slip page, print it, put the address on the package, write a thank you on the packing slip and ship it off. The problem is that the packing slip doesn't list that little note section they can put in the E-mail, so that's why I couldn't even give the guy the opportunity to try and confirm it.

Anyway, he seems to understand my point and has contacted USPS. I think everything is on my side as far as procedures, as I shipped to the confirmed address in less than 7 days (arrived in 3) and used delivery confirmation. I offered insurance...which he declined. I guess the only thing I'd have to worry about would be the CC chargeback if he used one.
 
On a slightly related note, insurance is for the seller's protection, not the buyer's - this is particularly true where Paypal and eBay are concerned.
 
[quote name='wilsonr']The chance of receiving a negative is exponentially greater when a payment disputed is escalated via Paypal, your only recourse when receiving a negative feedback in a situation like this is to respond in kind (in a professional, factual manner.) Then, say after three or four days, initiate the mutual feedback withdrawal process. eBay is actually encouraging sellers into this action, although in an oblique manner, when negative or neutral feedback is given for a transaction.

Also, while everyone is correct in this thread about shipping only to a confirmed address, the buyer could easily win the dispute if he states the item is significantly not as described - which may seem ridiculous as that situation isn't applicable here but that doesn't really matter.

I would recommend two courses of action: first, attempt to ascertain, in a very round about way mind you, how knowledgeable the buyer is about his charge back rights; second, attempt to contact the receiver of the package, perhaps even the post office responsible for delivery, to see if you can nip the situation in the bud and either redirect the package or have it returned to you.[/quote]

In order to win a dispute on that grounds he would be required to send the item back first.

Contacting the post office won't do squat. They can't due anything once a package is en route, you can't prove your the person who sent it and they won't do anything to interfere with the delivery of the mail.
 
This just happened to me again today. I got a payment with a confirmed address, and it had a note asking me to send to a different address. It seems like having my Paypal account set to only accept payments with confirmed addresses is useless. I even have my policy bolded in my auction description, but nobody reads it.

*sigh*
 
Brian1984: That is actually not true, depending on the merchant bank involved, the receiver does not necessairly have to show "proof" of sending the item back to win a significantly not as described chargeback.

Furthermore, even when sent, most banks only require proof of shipment, which means he could easily send an empty box. I didn't mention Paypal in this instance because Paypal is, by their own rules and admission, powerless to fight an SNAD chargeback complaint initiated by a merchant bank.

Also, the post office can verify where the package was delivered and depending on their size and mood can also contact the postman responsible for delivery to forward a note to the address. This is not a standard service mind you, but simply a courtesy and one that has been offered to me on more than one occassion.
 
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