How To Brainwash A Nation

Technically, we are a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic. A republic just means the citizens pick their leaders, so that by itself doesnt mean much. We dont do direct democracy as the greeks, but we have representative democracy, which is still democracy.

So what do you think the difference is?
 
Even worse - donuts are clearly dessert and not breakfast. Especially the creme filled ones. Delicious, delicious creme. Yet the entire nation has been brainwashed into thinking they're for breakfast. Who's behind it? Krispy Kreme and Dunkin Donuts of course.

Didn't you ever wonder why their names are KK and DD? The alliteration is soothing, it opens up your brain for them to do their demented little work. And here we are today, who would question that donuts are for breakfast? Powerful stuff.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Technically, we are a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic. A republic just means the citizens pick their leaders, so that by itself doesnt mean much. We dont do direct democracy as the greeks, but we have representative democracy, which is still democracy.

So what do you think the difference is?[/QUOTE]


Well considering the word Democracy isn't used at all in any of our founding documents I think there is a huge difference.

Republic = States have the power
Democracy = Federal has the power
Republic = Personal rights cannot be taken away(individual rule)
Democracy = Abolish personal rights for the greater good(mob rule)
Republic = Government limited by constitution or charter(rule of law)
Democracy = Government by and for the people(rule of passion/prejudice)

In the long run a democracy will always become a tyranny, either by majority, or if the majority screw things up so badly and a tyrant seizes power from the ensuing chaos. The overriding characteristic of democracy is subjectivism and that is its fatal flaw. In other words, reason is irrelevant, whatever the majority wants it gets and regardless of how unprincipled or objectionable it may be. Rights cannot exist in such a system in the long run because they can be voted away on a whim at any time. So if you're interested in freedom at all you must cast away an ugly term like democracy and accept that freedom requires reason, objectivity, and law, which can only be satisfied by a republican government.

Here is a few quotes on Democracy:

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Benjamin Franklin

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry

"Democracy forever teases us with the contrast between its ideals and its realities, between its heroic possibilities and its sorry achievements."
Agnes Repplier

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."
Thomas Jefferson

"Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death."
James Madison

"The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived."
John Quincy Adams

"Democracy was the right of the people to choose their own tyrant."
James Madison

"Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos."
John Marshall

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"Democarcy is the road to socialism."
Karl Marx


If you watched the video I posted you can find the answer to why people of today would defend such a horrible form of government. The real question you should ask is, who exactly is in charge?

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Alright, so as long as we call it a republic we're safe. Gotcha. And donuts are breakfast. They must be called breakfast.
 
Those are completely false and/or arbitrary distinctions.

We can take them in pairs:

Republic = States have the power
Democracy = Federal has the power
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According to our constitution, both have some power, so its not an either or. While your definition of a republic being a conglomeration of states is a valid defintion of the term republic, one has to wonder how the tyrannical state government works. Are single state countries without hope? Will cities ever rise up against the state

Republic = Personal rights cannot be taken away(individual rule)
Democracy = Abolish personal rights for the greater good(mob rule)
Click to expand...
The government is there to ensure rights. Your distinction prohibits a constitutionally limited representative democracy from being able to protect the minority, which it clearly can.

Republic = Government limited by constitution or charter(rule of law)
Democracy = Government by and for the people(rule of passion/prejudice)
Click to expand...
False distinction. Any system that has voting is a democracy. Every country that has a government also has a constitution. Thats the core agreement of the people on what the government is.

You do bring up a valid point though, strangely enough. I dont believe in freedom. I believe in democracy. So does nature, through natural selection, where it is very prevelant. Democracy is in the genes themselves. For instance, red deer. When the group wants to travel to one watering hole or another, they turn towards it and when they get to 50%, they all go. Now, if there is danger in the area, it takes a super majority (~2/3) to go. Nature has figured out that what is best for 50%+1 tends to be the best for everyone.

The very act of voting signs away some individual liberty as you pledge as part of the process to go along with the result even if you didnt win. If you'd like to detail your preferred system of government that doesnt have voting, by all means.

Your definition of democracy is too narrow and outdated. You limit it to only direct, mob rule, which no one uses anymore, either in practice or in philosophy.

And this part at the beginning is the silliest thing:
[quote name='Archfiend']Well considering the word Democracy isn't used at all in any of our founding documents I think there is a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
Words mean different things at different times. Some words didnt even exist then. Some words (as democracy and republic) have been used interchangeably either in the past or presently. This would also be a valid scenario for one word appearing but not the other. How many times does the word Republic appear in the constitution, and how is meant?

The word privacy doesnt appear in our founding documents either. Why? Because the word privacy back then had something to do with taking a shit/where you took it.
 
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I like how the video thinks Congress can be voted out. That is so funny.[/QUOTE]

It is funny. But the joke is on us.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Those are completely false and/or arbitrary distinctions.

We can take them in pairs:


According to our constitution, both have some power, so its not an either or. While your definition of a republic being a conglomeration of states is a valid defintion of the term republic, one has to wonder how the tyrannical state government works. Are single state countries without hope? Will cities ever rise up against the state


The government is there to ensure rights. Your distinction prohibits a constitutionally limited representative democracy from being able to protect the minority, which it clearly can.


False distinction. Any system that has voting is a democracy. Every country that has a government also has a constitution. Thats the core agreement of the people on what the government is.

You do bring up a valid point though, strangely enough. I dont believe in freedom. I believe in democracy. So does nature, through natural selection, where it is very prevelant. Democracy is in the genes themselves. For instance, red deer. When the group wants to travel to one watering hole or another, they turn towards it and when they get to 50%, they all go. Now, if there is danger in the area, it takes a super majority (~2/3) to go. Nature has figured out that what is best for 50%+1 tends to be the best for everyone.

The very act of voting signs away some individual liberty as you pledge as part of the process to go along with the result even if you didnt win. If you'd like to detail your preferred system of government that doesnt have voting, by all means.

Your definition of democracy is too narrow and outdated. You limit it to only direct, mob rule, which no one uses anymore, either in practice or in philosophy.

And this part at the beginning is the silliest thing:

Words mean different things at different times. Some words didnt even exist then. Some words (as democracy and republic) have been used interchangeably either in the past or presently. This would also be a valid scenario for one word appearing but not the other. How many times does the word Republic appear in the constitution, and how is meant?

The word privacy doesnt appear in our founding documents either. Why? Because the word privacy back then had something to do with taking a shit/where you took it.[/QUOTE]


I could argue point by point with you but that is pointless as the truth is always self-evident. Anyways you should break down the video or those quotes I listed, more of a challenge eh?
 
Not really. But I could answer those and you can again say, well I can easily answer you a second time yet I wont. Here is something else! I'll do a few though, since I know Jefferson moreso than the others.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."
Thomas Jefferson
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While he is credited for saying this, I'm not sure he actually did.

But here are some other things from him that have citations. If he did say it, then he is contradicting a library of his own quotes on majority rule.

"I subscribe to the principle, that the will of the majority honestly expressed should give law." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1793. ME 1:332

"All... being equally free, no one has a right to say what shall be law for the others. Our way is to put these questions to the vote, and to consider that as law for which the majority votes." --Thomas Jefferson: Address to the Cherokee Nation, 1809. ME 16:456

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possesses their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address

"This... [is] a country where the will of the majority is the law, and ought to be the law." --Thomas Jefferson: Answers to de Meusnier Questions, 1786. ME 17:85

"The fundamental principle of [a common government of associated States] is that the will of the majority is to prevail." --Thomas Jefferson to William Eustis, 1809.

"The voice of the majority decides. For the lex majoris partis is the law of all councils, elections, etc., where not otherwise expressly provided." --Thomas Jefferson: Parliamentary Manual, 1800. ME 2:420

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Benjamin Franklin
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"Against such a majority we cannot effect [the gathering them into the fold of truth] by force. Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVII, 1782. ME 2:223

Back in the day of our founders, mentions of democracy meant direct democracy, and they are rightly not too keen on that. But they are largely for both representative democracy and majority rule.

That invalidates nearly all of the rest of your quotes.

I'm not saying that a representative democracy is perfect or everlasting. Nothing is, which makes those particular quotes useless. In fact, it probably is all those bad things from your quotes, despite that they are nearly uniformly talking about direct democracy. And it still is the best thing we've got.

Feel free to continue running away from the issue of the vote and majority rule.
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You are correct that this discussion is useless, since you have used the words objective and self-evident, which are at the core garbage.
 
[quote name='Archfiend']I could argue point by point with you but that is pointless as the truth is always self-evident. Anyways you should break down the video or those quotes I listed, more of a challenge eh?[/QUOTE]
That's funny, considering even the "true" meaning of truth is not evident after hundreds of years of philosophical thought.
 
Honestly, I'm not sure we are disagreeing so much as just talking past each other because we are defining terms differently. Let me try to put it in black and white.

1) Is there a difference between direct democracy and representative democracy? [yes/no]

2) Is a state or nation that uses representative democracy considered a democracy? [yes/no]

3) Does the United States of America use representative democracy? [yes/no]
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Honestly, I'm not sure we are disagreeing so much as just talking past each other because we are defining terms differently. Let me try to put it in black and white.

1) Is there a difference between direct democracy and representative democracy? [yes/no]

2) Is a state or nation that uses representative democracy considered a democracy? [yes/no]

3) Does the United States of America use representative democracy? [yes/no][/QUOTE]


We're definitely not really disagreeing but we're also not really on the same page.
 
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