I can't believe the crap on this forum - an open letter to many of you

CTLesq

CTLesq

CAGiversary!
At this moment the electoral count is 269 to 211 with a few states outstanding.

Look at the threads "this group is an made up a bunch of idiots" "this group was wrong and beaten".

Then look at the specific comments made within the threads.

The pettiness over certain trivial issues is palpable.

Hey people - we just had, and are still in the process of, an election.

I don't like the politics of John Kerry. In point of fact I don't like the politics of most of you on this forum.

But when the election is over you need to put your differences behind you.

And you idiots on this forum and in the country don't realize this - but your inability to put those differences behind yourselves and move forward is far worse than the result of a candidate other than your choosing being elected.

Think about it.

CTL

Edit: grammar
 
How can you call people idiots for expressing their beliefs? You need to lighten up and open your mind. I know I just made fun of Bush, but that was in jest. I always make fun of monkey-face...sorry.
 
I don't think the two sides working together will work very well. It's like being at an intersection, one wants to go left and one wants to go right. You're not going to reconcile two totally different viewpoints. Maybe with a mccain or clinton in office, someone who knows how to effectively compromise, takes parts of both sides, but bush is not that person. Republicans control the house, the senate, the presidency, and, within the next four years, the supreme court. Between his personality and the current situation, it's going to be one way or the other with him, liberals aren't with him, and he doesn't care, and he doesn't have to.
 
[quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']How can you call people idiots for expressing their beliefs? You need to lighten up and open your mind. I know I just made fun of Bush, but that was in jest. I always make fun of monkey-face...sorry.[/quote]

Because their beliefs are wrong. We have a tradition in this country of having hotly contested elections. And then they end. And then people go back to behaving. You don't run and then piss on your opponents because they lost.

I don't need to lighten up and open my mind. Other people need to grow up and improve thier discourse.

If you won, be magnaninous. If you lost be gracious.

Kerry had the best comment of the night: regardless of the outcome of the election this nation would be stronger as a result of the electoral process.

Think a mature comment like that is found in any of the "Group X sux and lost" threads?

Open your own mind to actually maturing.

CTL
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I don't think the two sides working together will work very well. It's like being at an intersection, one wants to go left and one wants to go right. You're not going to reconcile two totally different viewpoints. Maybe with a mccain or clinton in office, someone who knows how to effectively compromise, takes parts of both sides, but bush is not that person. Republicans control the house, the senate, the presidency, and, within the next four years, the supreme court. Between his personality and the current situation, it's going to be one way or the other with him, liberals aren't with him, and he doesn't care, and he doesn't have to.[/quote]

You think this is any different than the last 229 years of American History?

It isn't.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']How can you call people idiots for expressing their beliefs? You need to lighten up and open your mind. I know I just made fun of Bush, but that was in jest. I always make fun of monkey-face...sorry.[/quote]

Because their beliefs are wrong. We have a tradition in this country of having hotly contested elections. And then they end. And then people go back to behaving. You don't run and then piss on your opponents because they lost.

I don't need to lighten up and open my mind. Other people need to grow up and improve thier discourse.

If you won, be magnaninous. If you lost be gracious.

Kerry had the best comment of the night: regardless of the outcome of the election this nation would be stronger as a result of the electoral process.

Think a mature comment like that is found in any of the "Group X sux and lost" threads?

Open your own mind to actually maturing.

CTL[/quote]

I am probably more mature than you are. And you cannot say someone's bleifs are wrong, because they are THEIR beleifs. So get your helmet head out of your ass, dickwad.

And I don't care if Bush wins. If he does, good. But I voted for Kerry, so thats who I'm pulling for. And I never said Group X sux and lost. I am not like that. I am a gracious loser. If Kerry loses, fine. Just means that Bush cannot run again in 4 years. But don't ever tell me to mature, because I am more mature than you will EVER be. I am not turning this into a flame war, I just am telling you my beliefs. And do not say they are wrong, because then I can say that your beliefs are wrong.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='alonzomourning23']I don't think the two sides working together will work very well. It's like being at an intersection, one wants to go left and one wants to go right. You're not going to reconcile two totally different viewpoints. Maybe with a mccain or clinton in office, someone who knows how to effectively compromise, takes parts of both sides, but bush is not that person. Republicans control the house, the senate, the presidency, and, within the next four years, the supreme court. Between his personality and the current situation, it's going to be one way or the other with him, liberals aren't with him, and he doesn't care, and he doesn't have to.[/quote]

You think this is any different than the last 229 years of American History?

It isn't.

CTL[/quote]

Actually, the wide divide, the degree of hostility, and that the republicans control (or will control) basically all branches of government is different than most of the last 229 years of american history. Also, you seem to be switching between "If you don't agree with me then I don't care about you" to "we need to move forward", you can't have it both ways.
 
[quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']I am probably more mature than you are. And you cannot say someone's bleifs are wrong, because they are THEIR beleifs. So get your helmet head out of your ass, dickwad.[/quote]

Think racism isn't wrong?

Think opposition to gay marriage ins't wrong?

Think someone's desire to drive an SUV and put a hole in the ozone isn't wrong?

Because, after all, they are THEIR beliefs.

People are wrong all the time. Just becuase I wasn't a victim of the same public education system that you were, making all ideas morally equivillant isn't my fault.

[quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']And I don't care if Bush wins. If he does, good. But I voted for Kerry, so thats who I'm pulling for. And I never said Group X sux and lost. I am not like that. I am a gracious loser. If Kerry loses, fine. Just means that Bush cannot run again in 4 years. But don't ever tell me to mature, because I am more mature than you will EVER be. I am not turning this into a flame war, I just am telling you my beliefs. And do not say they are wrong, because then I can say that your beliefs are wrong.[/quote]

My comments were general to the forum, not specific to you, until you opined.

You could say my beliefs are wrong, but then you would be wrong.

Sure you are more mature, that I will EVER be.

Yup, thats why you will continue to respond.

CTL
 
[quote="alonzomourning23"Actually, the wide divide, the degree of hostility, and that the republicans control (or will control) basically all branches of government is different than most of the last 229 years of american history. Also, you seem to be switching between "If you don't agree with me then I don't care about you" to "we need to move forward", you can't have it both ways.[/quote]

Then replace Republican with Democrat...its the same.

George Will had a brillant editorial about it on election day. Its the posioned atmosphere. People just think becuase its there here and now that this election is the most important ever, and politics is more posoined now more than ever. Its always been bad.

As for my "move forward comments" you need to place it within the context that this is about the US election, and its aftermath, which is materially different than any other topic I have written about on this forum. There are certain things that you can have a different approach on.

This is one of them.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']I am probably more mature than you are. And you cannot say someone's bleifs are wrong, because they are THEIR beleifs. So get your helmet head out of your ass, dickwad.[/quote]

Think racism isn't wrong?

Think opposition to gay marriage ins't wrong?

Think someone's desire to drive an SUV and put a hole in the ozone isn't wrong?

Because, after all, they are THEIR beliefs.

People are wrong all the time. Just becuase I wasn't a victim of the same public education system that you were, making all ideas morally equivillant isn't my fault.

[quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']And I don't care if Bush wins. If he does, good. But I voted for Kerry, so thats who I'm pulling for. And I never said Group X sux and lost. I am not like that. I am a gracious loser. If Kerry loses, fine. Just means that Bush cannot run again in 4 years. But don't ever tell me to mature, because I am more mature than you will EVER be. I am not turning this into a flame war, I just am telling you my beliefs. And do not say they are wrong, because then I can say that your beliefs are wrong.[/quote]

My comments were general to the forum, not specific to you, until you opined.

You could say my beliefs are wrong, but then you would be wrong.

Sure you are more mature, that I will EVER be.

Yup, thats why you will continue to respond.

CTL[/quote]

Yes they may be wrong, bt they are people's beliefs, and you CANNOT change somebodys beliefs.

And that is what I am saying about you saying people's beliefs are wrong. You can't tell people that their belifs are wrong, because they could turn it back on you. Everyone has their own beliefs, and that is what makes us individuals. If not, then why vote? There would be no point if everyone had the same beliefs. I am not condoning people for being racist, but I cannot say because I did not see a racist comment. And I voted FOR gay marraiges. It is their right. If they love each other, than fine. That is their prerogative.

And don't even start about my education. Did you go to a private school? Good for you. My family could not afford to send me to one. If you did, then stop waiving it in my face, because I don't like people waiving their wealth in my face.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
Just becuase I wasn't a victim of the same public education system that you were, making all ideas morally equivillant isn't my fault.
[/quote]

HA HA HA HA HA

Next time I am in CT we have to get together for a few drinks!
 
[quote name='CTLesq']MorbidAngel4Life:

You have totally missed the point.

Goodnight.

CTL[/quote]

Whatever. I don't really see a point to your rambling about peoples beliefs are wrong, other than cementing yourself as an asshole who can't open your mind. But hey? WHAT DO I KNOW? I didn't get the same education that you did, so I must be an ignorant, uninformed idiot, right? Well let me put it to you in words you will understand: fuck YOU.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']At this moment the electoral count is 269 to 211 with a few states outstanding.

Look at the threads "this group is an made up a bunch of idiots" "this group was wrong and beaten".

Then look at the specific comments made within the threads.

The pettiness over certain trivial issues is palpable.

Hey people - we just had, and are still in the process of, an election.

I don't like the politics of John Kerry. In point of fact I don't like the politics of most of you on this forum.

But when the election is over you need to put your differences behind you.

And you idiots on this forum and in the country don't realize this - but your inability to put those differences behind yourselves and move forward is far worse than the result of a candidate other than your choosing being elected.

Think about it.

CTL

Edit: grammar[/quote]

I've read your post twice, and was about to do so a third time, when I realized that despite your "privileged" schooling, you wrote out a bunch of words that made some phrases that made some sentences that made some paragraphs...that in the end, don't mean a damn thing.

I mean, really. What is your beef? You have failed miserably in providing a point to your "letter". What are you saying exactly? We shouldn't turn this election into a schoolyard fight between Democrats and Republicans, or other such rival groups? Fine. I agree with that, as I'm sure, so do others. It's not like after the election the losing side is going to bomb the winners. What more do you want...all citizens walking hand in hand through the Candycane Forest? I mean, come one, this is the real world, not Sesame Street. People are going to have differences of opinion and express them. Some people are more forceful then others, and may decide to stress what you call "trivial" issues. So what!? What does it matter to you? Is it going to impinge on your existence as an American what a Republican forum member says about the Democrats? Get off your bully pulpit, your high and mighty pedestal of "Listen to me. I know the answer. You guys are all wrong". Who are you, Jesus?

Look, I wouldn't have minded your post in the sense that it reminded us we should remember we are Americans before we are Republicans or Democrats...but then you run your mouth about the forum members being "idiots" for their beliefs? You imply that a Democrat making a disparaging remark about Republicans is just as inherently evil as a group of people encouraging racist attitudes? Come on, not everything is black and white. You should know that, with your "special" schooling and all.

Look. You can express your opinion all you want, but when you decide your opinion is the "right" one by which everyone should base their opinions and actions...well, damn, who's the one with the "wrong" opinions?
 
I thought that was the point of the CAG VS MODE forums...to spout our crap. I don't think anyone HAS to be gracious or kind here just civilized (and barely that).
 
[quote name='CTLesq']At this moment the electoral count is 269 to 211 with a few states outstanding.

Look at the threads "this group is an made up a bunch of idiots" "this group was wrong and beaten".

Then look at the specific comments made within the threads.

The pettiness over certain trivial issues is palpable.

Hey people - we just had, and are still in the process of, an election.

I don't like the politics of John Kerry. In point of fact I don't like the politics of most of you on this forum.

But when the election is over you need to put your differences behind you.

And you idiots on this forum and in the country don't realize this - but your inability to put those differences behind yourselves and move forward is far worse than the result of a candidate other than your choosing being elected.

Think about it.

CTL

Edit: grammar[/quote]

Well I think plenty of people would put thier differences with the President behind them if he would let them instead of rubbing it in thier faces every change he gets. You do realize if you want people to forget and move on you need to make some sort of effort to work with them. But oh well I survived the last 4 years and I'm not a Canadian yet. :D
 
[quote name='CTLesq']Because their beliefs are wrong. We have a tradition in this country of having hotly contested elections. And then they end. And then people go back to behaving. You don't run and then piss on your opponents because they lost.[/quote]
You mean like the Clinton years? I guess in those 8 years, the Republicans just sat quietly because their beliefs were wrong, and didn't piss on Clinton at all.

Your opinion is not simply wrong because your party is not in power. And if you think so, then you're living in the wrong country.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']
But oh well I survived the last 4 years and I'm not a Canadian yet. :D[/quote]


how do you go about applying for citizenship? i wonder how many american swill do this. i'm thinking about going to university and spelling colour different. and centre. i dont even want to turn on the news.


for someone to say shut up and conform is wrong. i hope you are ready for the revolution. :roll:
 
[quote name='dafoomie'][quote name='CTLesq']Because their beliefs are wrong. We have a tradition in this country of having hotly contested elections. And then they end. And then people go back to behaving. You don't run and then piss on your opponents because they lost.[/quote]
You mean like the Clinton years? I guess in those 8 years, the Republicans just sat quietly because their beliefs were wrong, and didn't piss on Clinton at all.

Your opinion is not simply wrong because your party is not in power. And if you think so, then you're living in the wrong country.[/quote]

I wouldn't pay much attention to CTLesq. He is on the fringe of reality, much like PAD only not quite as bad.
 
[quote name='coffman']I wouldn't pay much attention to CTLesq. He is on the fringe of reality, much like PAD only not quite as bad.[/quote]

Yes the fringe of reality suggesting that both sides on this forum put the bitterness of the election behind them.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman']I wouldn't pay much attention to CTLesq. He is on the fringe of reality, much like PAD only not quite as bad.[/quote]

Yes the fringe of reality suggesting that both sides on this forum put the bitterness of the election behind them.[/quote]

When Clinton was elected to a second term, all I heard was complaining and bitching from Republicans at work. Not just for a week or a month, but for his entire 2nd term. Now, its my turn. Just because Bush is probably going to be president does not mean I have to support him or even like him.
 
[quote name='coffman'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman']I wouldn't pay much attention to CTLesq. He is on the fringe of reality, much like PAD only not quite as bad.[/quote]

Yes the fringe of reality suggesting that both sides on this forum put the bitterness of the election behind them.[/quote]

When Clinton was elected to a second term, all I heard was complaining and bitching from Republicans at work. Not just for a week or a month, but for his entire 2nd term. Now, its my turn. Just because Bush is probably going to be president does not mean I have to support him or even like him.[/quote]

No you don't have to like him. As president you should support him.

I can't right the wrongs of your work.

But I can suggest that the thread titles in this forum and their contents be a little more concillatory and a little more restrained towards other Americans.

And really for me being on the "fringe" at least I don't justify inappropriate behavior with, "well they did it".

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman']I wouldn't pay much attention to CTLesq. He is on the fringe of reality, much like PAD only not quite as bad.[/quote]

Yes the fringe of reality suggesting that both sides on this forum put the bitterness of the election behind them.[/quote]

When Clinton was elected to a second term, all I heard was complaining and bitching from Republicans at work. Not just for a week or a month, but for his entire 2nd term. Now, its my turn. Just because Bush is probably going to be president does not mean I have to support him or even like him.[/quote]

No you don't have to like him. As president you should support him.

I can't right the wrongs of your work.

But I can suggest that the thread titles in this forum and their contents be a little more concillatory and a little more restrained towards other Americans.

And really for me being on the "fringe" at least I don't justify inappropriate behavior with, "well they did it".

CTL[/quote]

Just because Bush is president DOES NOT mean you have to support him. If you feel that the president, no matter who it is, is taking the country in the wrong direction, it is your patriotic duty to object and make your voice heard. This is how democracy works. We are free to express our opinions, and criticize our leaders. This is what makes us different from totaltarian regiems. It is anti-democratic to tell those with differing opinions to shut up and support the president no matter what. It is also anti-democratic to tell those who disagree to move to another country if they don't like it. This is MY country too, and if the government is doing something I don't approve of, it is my RIGHT to object and voice my opinion.
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']Just because Bush is president DOES NOT mean you have to support him. If you feel that the president, no matter who it is, is taking the country in the wrong direction, it is your patriotic duty to object and make your voice heard. This is how democracy works. We are free to express our opinions, and criticize our leaders. This is what makes us different from totaltarian regiems. It is anti-democratic to tell those with differing opinions to shut up and support the president no matter what. It is also anti-democratic to tell those who disagree to move to another country if they don't like it. This is MY country too, and if the government is doing something I don't approve of, it is my RIGHT to object and voice my opinion.[/quote]

And there is a difference between throwing a molatov cocktail into a crowd and respecting the office if the president. That is what I am talking about.

Again, is it so hard to attempt to be civil after an election?

CTL
 
Umm...we are a republic not a democracy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=republic

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=democracy

It must suck to know that your man lost and you can't do shit about it and for the next 4 years you are truely powerless to stop him. This is the truth and reality. Bush is now a 2nd term President and I predict he will get even more done since he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected. Republicans also control the Senate and House of Reps. Basically he can do what he pleases and he will. What pisses you off more? The fact that he can do these things? Or the fact that the MAJORITY of Americans voted for him. It is more "democratic" to agree with the majority but I guess you don't see it that way since things didn't go your way.

This will be a fine next couple of weeks for me as I get to rub Bush into the noses of most the people I know. I been saying all year that Bush is gonna win but since I am in NYC where it's common place to wear anti-Bush clothing...it's been a constant battle in most conversations. No more...Bush won and I am very happy about it. I wouldn't have bothered to vote since in NY the Dems always win anyways...but I wanted my vote to be part of the popular vote so that Bush would at least have a clearer win. I think this holds true for many Republicans that we thought to vote this time to show support. Voter turnout was very high...and Bush got an overwhelming response from the popular vote. He got more support yesterday than he did in 2000. Now what does that tell you?
 
[quote name='dafoomie']
And actually, we are a representative democracy. The Soviet Union was comprised of republics. Iran is a republic.
[/quote]

And in name East Germany was democratic.

The US is a republic.

CTL
 
Look, just because the president won
doesn't mean you can't disagree with him.

First, when does a 51% of the popular vote become an "overwhelming response?" Yes it is better than the last election and a clear majority. But the nation is still basically split 50/50.

Secondly, you respect the position of president even if you don't support the man or policies. I personally am a Kerry supporter, because I believe the Presidents Reganomic ideology is folly. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the world that the President got re-elected. There are many good things on his platform as well as negative. Also, there are a LOT of smart people in Washignton. That helps ensure that the best courses of action are taken by the goverment.

People have to wait and see. Remember that election rhetoric is much different than actual policy initiatives. Give the President a chance to pursue his policies and if you disagree with those policies voice that disagreement.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='ZarathosNY']Just because Bush is president DOES NOT mean you have to support him. If you feel that the president, no matter who it is, is taking the country in the wrong direction, it is your patriotic duty to object and make your voice heard. This is how democracy works. We are free to express our opinions, and criticize our leaders. This is what makes us different from totaltarian regiems. It is anti-democratic to tell those with differing opinions to shut up and support the president no matter what. It is also anti-democratic to tell those who disagree to move to another country if they don't like it. This is MY country too, and if the government is doing something I don't approve of, it is my RIGHT to object and voice my opinion.[/quote]

And there is a difference between throwing a molatov cocktail into a crowd and respecting the office if the president. That is what I am talking about.

Again, is it so hard to attempt to be civil after an election?

CTL[/quote]

I was being civil. I wasn't advocating throwing a molative cocktail into a crowd. I just get tired of hearing people telling me to leave the country or that I am unpatriotic because I don't agree with what he is doing.
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']

Secondly, you respect the position of president even if you don't support the man or policies. [/quote]

Exactly. I didn't support Clinton the person or many of his policies, but I didn't denigrate the office because he was in it. The office isn't some holy robe, but it does confer a bit of respect. Erskine Bowles came to my polling place last night while I was there, I voted against him just like I did last time, but I shook his hand and said "Nice to meet you" and chatted a moment. I can disagree with a person and still respect him as a person or a candidate/officeholder, while doing my best to remove him from that office :)

In fact, I'm hoping a lot of conservatives express their disappointment with Kerry's first four years. He may be compassionate, but he's not a conservative. I still voted for him, because there's more chance of conservatism being revitalized under him than Kerry. Now's the chance for him to truly show his conservative stripes.
 
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