I hate to admit it, but f--k Paypal

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I have been a loyal Paypal user almost since they first opened their service to the public. I remember getting 6% interest on my Paypal funds and keeping thousands of dollars in my account at all times. Sometimes, people insisted on using that crap Ebay Bidpay service, but otherwise, times were good.

I have read many threads of people getting screwed out of money thanks to Paypal siding with idiots and scammers. I read the posts with interest, but figured there must be more to it since I had sold thousands of items with only a couple minor problems.

I went dormant on Ebay/Paypal for over a year. This year, I finally decide to sell off my music CD collection. Things went well. I netted almost $1600 (after fees/shipping) for 140 CDs. Times were good.

Then the bad times came.

I don't know what is in the water outside of North America, but what the fuck is wrong with these people? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many idiotic, impatient, and just plain mean messages I have received from foreign buyers. Every sale is like walking on eggshells since, apparently, these assholes can file a "non-received" complaint with Paypal, regardless if the item takes 4 weeks to arrive and it has only been 10 days, regardless if the item actually arrives or not, and get their full payment back including shipping costs.

I just got hosed out of $60 because some fucknut in France doesn't know the difference between 2 weeks and "4-6 weeks" (which is what I quoted her). Despite having the postal customs form showing the date, amount paid, exact description of the package, and the postal stamp showing the date of drop-off, I get fucked. It doesn't matter that it isn't even close to the estimated delivery date. It doesn't matter that this bitch will receive her CDs in a few weeks.

This is the second time I get screwed in 2 months. I am done selling with Paypal.
 
Its ebay as well... looks like the 2007 year was the lat good one for me. I avoided it but dropped my psp and tons of extras on for the Christmas rush....

All was well got bid up over 200... Then the chick flakes out. i file a complaint and she comes back around and says she has been busy with the holidays, she will pay...

Now its been 14 days and no response. i relisted, closed her case and gave her an unpaid item strike... I still cant leave negative after this. I knew about the changes in May on ebay and feedback but not being able to leave a negative after she clearly is a flake is just outright stupid.

After this it will be very rare that I sell on ebay any more... back to trade lists, craigslist, and amazon.
 
I refuse to use PayPal and Ebay for this exact reason. Thinking about Amazon, just wondering if it's any better in the long run.
 
I seem to get hit in the 18-20% in fees at Ebay/paypal... Amazon seems to come in for me at 21% or there abouts... its easier to list on amazon and I feel a bit safer as a seller..

I never get feedback left for me though by the buyers.

Chasethechuckwagon.com is another good startup that is gaining ground for games.
 
This is why I absolutely refuse to ship outside of the US anymore. It simply isn't worth the hassle to get it shipped, then the chance they say they never receive the item.
 
Yeah the plus side on Amazon is that you don't pay any listing fees and you get instant payment once an item sells. The negative is the lack of feedback (I've gotten some but only after sending several reminders) and you get pegged for about 20% in fees as soon as your stuff does sell. That and you really don't have much control over shipping charges (although eBay has pretty much locked that down with their new max shipping limits).


The last time I shipped out of the country (Canada) I got fucked by UPS but that was partially due to the buyer being an idiot and partially my fault for not knowing more about customs fees...
 
[quote name='SlammedNiss']This is why I absolutely refuse to ship outside of the US anymore. It simply isn't worth the hassle to get it shipped, then the chance they say they never receive the item.[/QUOTE]

I'll second this one. I've been on eBay since Feb of 99 (wow, 10 years in a couple weeks) and of all the problems I've had, easily 90% are foreign buyers. I can only think of three issues I've had domestically in all that time. It's just not worth the possible additional bids for the potential headache.
 
I have only sent a couple items overseas but for me the foreign buyers were really nice, they just wanted the toys for their kids and they were really happy that I was willing to ship overseas to accomadate them.

Last time I checked amazon was charging a .99 listing fee for any item on top of the other fees they take out of the sale unless you pay for their monthly membership which was like 40$. As long as you aren't doing BIN on video game auctions the fees shouldn't be as much as amazon. Plus I don't like how you have to take returns on amazon because once I choose to sell something I want it gone and they do not allow items to be sold in lots or groups which is how I sell a lot of my items.

I am having a rather unique problem on ebay and I cannot figure out how to combat it. I have newbie buyers that are essentially placing joke bids on my items. I had a guy place a 100$ bid on a game that I was selling (it was not worth more than 20$), luckily I got to that in time and canceled it so that a legitimate bidder was able to buy the item.

Then I had another person bid on an item, again another outrageous price then they came back to me and said that they were from canada and didn't have paypal and basically told me that you better hope someone outbids me on this auction.

Now I am done selling for a while since the holidays are over but does anyone have any ideas on how to get these people in trouble for what they are doing, I suspect I will have this problem again. It is a HUGE inconvenience for me to let the item end with the bad buyer, wait 7 days, file a dispute, relist and stuff during the holidays since during the holidays I have a very limited window to get my items out there to sell them for maximum value (some items will ONLY sell during the Christmas holidays). Then the buyer gets nothing but an unpaid item strike, you can't even leave them negative. I can sit and watch the auctions end and cancel the bids however I may not catch everything and like most people I can't always be at my computer when the auction is ending.
 
Rant & Question :D

Just got back into the whole Ebay/Paypal swing after being away for awhile. They hit me with about a 8.5% fees on a $150 sale so I guess it coulda been worse but they are the only game in town and I somehow managed to get 2 bidders in a war for a item and ran it up to triple what I paid, although you can't purchase it for several years now and it's still new..

The thing that's got me ticked off is that I can't touch my money for 21 days. They say I can possibly get my money early if the buyer leaves me positive feedback or they can confirm I ship the item.... Is this a new practice for everyone or just on new accounts for your first so many items? I had to make a new seperate Paypal and Ebay account because my old was shared by someone i'm no longer with. :)

Kinda sucks since i've got like 30 things up for sale and doesn't look like i'll be paid a dime till the end of the month and have to pay to ship each item times 30..... Oh well looking forward to an extra pay check at least.....
 
[quote name='SlammedNiss']This is why I absolutely refuse to ship outside of the US anymore. It simply isn't worth the hassle to get it shipped, then the chance they say they never receive the item.[/QUOTE]

Same with me, I get asked at least once a week if I will ship outside the US, usually to Canada but sometimes Europe and I refuse to.
 
i dont really sell anything on ebay but when i did get rid of my excess car parts i didnt like get hit with fees and paypal screwed me as a buyer. paid 200 on a rear bumper for my old '95 integra and paypal never recovered my funds since they werent in her account. Buyer protection my fucking ass.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I have only sent a couple items overseas but for me the foreign buyers were really nice, they just wanted the toys for their kids and they were really happy that I was willing to ship overseas to accomadate them.

Last time I checked amazon was charging a .99 listing fee for any item on top of the other fees they take out of the sale unless you pay for their monthly membership which was like 40$. As long as you aren't doing BIN on video game auctions the fees shouldn't be as much as amazon. Plus I don't like how you have to take returns on amazon because once I choose to sell something I want it gone and they do not allow items to be sold in lots or groups which is how I sell a lot of my items.

I am having a rather unique problem on ebay and I cannot figure out how to combat it. I have newbie buyers that are essentially placing joke bids on my items. I had a guy place a 100$ bid on a game that I was selling (it was not worth more than 20$), luckily I got to that in time and canceled it so that a legitimate bidder was able to buy the item.

Then I had another person bid on an item, again another outrageous price then they came back to me and said that they were from canada and didn't have paypal and basically told me that you better hope someone outbids me on this auction.

Now I am done selling for a while since the holidays are over but does anyone have any ideas on how to get these people in trouble for what they are doing, I suspect I will have this problem again. It is a HUGE inconvenience for me to let the item end with the bad buyer, wait 7 days, file a dispute, relist and stuff during the holidays since during the holidays I have a very limited window to get my items out there to sell them for maximum value (some items will ONLY sell during the Christmas holidays). Then the buyer gets nothing but an unpaid item strike, you can't even leave them negative. I can sit and watch the auctions end and cancel the bids however I may not catch everything and like most people I can't always be at my computer when the auction is ending.[/QUOTE]


--I haven't seen a $.99 listing charge on amazon.

--People can easily force you to take a return on ebay. I've done it to sellers who try to refuse misrepresented items before. They'll threaten you with a negative or just do a chargeback.

--Your problem with fake bidders is now very common since ebay started their new feedback system. All you can do is file non-paying bidder feedback and relist.

Amazon and ebay are basically the same, except that amazon isn't as transparent.
 
[quote name='SlammedNiss']This is why I absolutely refuse to ship outside of the US anymore. It simply isn't worth the hassle to get it shipped, then the chance they say they never receive the item.[/QUOTE]

Same here. I've had enough trouble with buyers from Europe, Mexico, and Canada back when PayPal was pretty decent and decided it wasn't worth the risk or trouble.
 
[quote name='$hady']Rant & Question :D

Just got back into the whole Ebay/Paypal swing after being away for awhile. They hit me with about a 8.5% fees on a $150 sale so I guess it coulda been worse but they are the only game in town and I somehow managed to get 2 bidders in a war for a item and ran it up to triple what I paid, although you can't purchase it for several years now and it's still new..

The thing that's got me ticked off is that I can't touch my money for 21 days. They say I can possibly get my money early if the buyer leaves me positive feedback or they can confirm I ship the item.... Is this a new practice for everyone or just on new accounts for your first so many items? I had to make a new seperate Paypal and Ebay account because my old was shared by someone i'm no longer with. :)

Kinda sucks since i've got like 30 things up for sale and doesn't look like i'll be paid a dime till the end of the month and have to pay to ship each item times 30..... Oh well looking forward to an extra pay check at least.....[/quote]

Same thing happend to me, and I have 100% feedback, so I went into paypal and ebay and put in the tracking information, and my paypal payment showed up in paypal right away, I suggest you put in the tracking info.
 
[quote name='rushisrighton']Same thing happend to me, and I have 100% feedback, so I went into paypal and ebay and put in the tracking information, and my paypal payment showed up in paypal right away, I suggest you put in the tracking info.[/quote]

Yea i'm going to enter all my details for each package ASAP after shipping and hoping they free my money up as soon as they show delivered, well 3 days later..


I read more about who they hold the money on: (sucks as the new guy but I guess it's a necessary evil)

Why are my payments being held?
Payment holds for eBay items are an effort to increase marketplace safety. We hold payments when we suspect a transaction may be risky. Here are the most common instances in which an eBay item payment may be held:


  • You have been an eBay member for less than 6 months, and you sell an item for more than $100
  • You have an eBay feedback score of less than 100, and you sell an item for more than $100
  • You have a buyer dissatisfaction percentage* greater than 5%
  • You have an average DSR of less than 4.5
  • You have received fewer than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months
  • You are listing your item in a high-risk category such as gift certificates, video games, cell phones, computers, or consumer electronics.
When will PayPal release the hold?
Your funds will be released when one of the following occurs:


  • The buyer leaves you positive feedback
  • 3 days pass after proof the item was delivered**
  • 21 days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on the transaction
 
Yeah, if you put your tracking information in they will release the funds when it shows as delivered (after 3 days). I would only ship to the USA until you meet most of those requirements since even though they say they take customs form numbers as tracking for out of country purchases many other people said they do not. I've heard they are a little bit better about using customs numbers as proof of tracking and shipment if you submit the number before you are shipping the item, so I always put in the tracking numbers ASAP to avoid any problems. The tracking numbers used for DC (within the US) at the post office are very reliable.

BTW if you DON'T use that tracking from the USPS (or another company), you are SCREWED if a buyer decides to file a chargeback, so make sure you put DC on each and every item. Remember that a buyer can file a chargeback for any reason even if they don't like the item and if you don't have that tracking number they pretty much will automatically win the dispute. When I buy items on ebay I am still receiving items without tracking numbers so obviously not every seller knows this.

Another strange problem is that sometimes the post office clerk is talking to me so they forget to scan the DC number, lol, so make sure the post office clerk scans the DC number!
 
A couple of my favorite things is the fact ebay and paypal are one of the same (although two seperate companies, but together just the same) and you get charged twice, for ebay seller fees, and transfer into the bank account fee) I'm also not a fan of the feedback system, and my feedback is closing in on 500 and counting although it be a lot higher if people did leave feedback.... I also refuse to ship out to other countries because like most of you said its not worth the headache, but it seems these days( i quit internationals a little over a year ago) they hit you up with undeliverable and get money they don't rightfully deserve back. I use the click and ship method right off they're page its easy to use, and cost less than going to the post office actually, and gives tracking free of charge using that route. I'm curious though about international bidders....do you guys ever feel the people that send questions about "how much does it cost to ship to brazil?" do you ever get the feeling they are like a ebay bot or something, because it looks so scripted, and i clearly state i don't ship internationally...yet i get the question almost all the time.
 
My feedback is approaching 500 too however I don't get half the feedback I should be getting, I honestly think buyers leave ebay once the holiday season is over and just don't check their accounts until they need some toy so desperately next Christmas.

I haven't really gotten excessive questions about shipping just from people who are genuinely interested in buying my item.

I am lucky to have 3 post offices very close to my house so going there is not a problem and one of them is open until 7pm, I usually just combine going to the post office with doing other errands.
 
Ebay should force buyers to leave feedback. I've gotten to the point where I don't leave feedback unless it has been posted for me. Even then, I still have about 15 sold items from the past couple months where nobody has bothered leaving me feedback.
 
I guess this is more or less my intro to the forum. I don't think I've ever posted before, I've been lurking for a bit...I'm mostly just too busy managing my eBay store to keep up on forums, etc.

Here're my experiences.

I've had VERY FEW problems with international bidders.

I probably send at least 1-3 items to Canada per week, and 1-3 elsewhere in the world per month.

Canada, I've gotten a few neutral feedbacks for the delay in arrival and condition (though in both cases it was clearly stated in the auction, and I can't control Canada's slow postal system. That's the worst though.

Have shipped all over Europe, and haven't had a problem.

My two horror stories

I've had one Brazilian buyer deny receiving a DS, and I got burned on it. Provided Paypal a scan of the postmarked customs form, which should be proof of shipping, but they want proof of delivery. From other forums and such, it seems like Brazil is the one to watch out for. But I've had two great, honest buyers from Brazil, so I'm really stuck whether to cut them off or not.

And a buyer from Australia bought a Gamecube, not understanding the 50/60 Hz difference in frequency and blew up the adapter. They gave me my first negative feedback out of nearly 1000. Meanwhile, they didn't stop complaining that "the listing said 'free shipping'" but I charged them $50.00, even though I offered them the chance to back out of the purchase when the realized the shipping price. This person was a problem buyer from day one, but what are you going to do - cost of doing business and whatnot.

Way I see it, there's two ways to handle it - I do a combination of the two:

1: Don't do international. It's not that large a portion of my business, it wouldn't severely put me back to not accept bids. And just ignore any questions from international buyers, or respond with a curt "Sorry, this item doesn't ship outside the US". I've pretty much stopped shipping systems further than Canada - partially b/c I have to charge so much for shipping, partially b/c of electrical incompatibility concerns (thanks Australian buyer).

2: Create your own insurance. I charge an arm and a leg for international shipping. I don't feel great about how much I charge. But - I'm not tracking the shipments, I'm risking getting burned. If I DO get burned periodically, the additional funds I've made charging excessive amounts for international shipping more than make up for it - same way any insurance company works. This is how I handle games.



Oh - and if anyone cares to check out my eBay store (and hasn't gotten bored of reading by now), the direct link is www.YourGameStore.net .


EDIT:

For the US - I print ALL my USPS labels out of Paypal, so EVERY record, with proof of delivery, is built into their system already. For international priority, it is as well (systems to Canada go international priority). Huge timesaver too, with "multi-order shipping" - wouldn't have shit for time to do anything without it.
 
[quote name='pfp']I guess this is more or less my intro to the forum. I don't think I've ever posted before, I've been lurking for a bit...I'm mostly just too busy managing my eBay store to keep up on forums, etc.

Here're my experiences.

I've had VERY FEW problems with international bidders.

I probably send at least 1-3 items to Canada per week, and 1-3 elsewhere in the world per month.

Canada, I've gotten a few neutral feedbacks for the delay in arrival and condition (though in both cases it was clearly stated in the auction, and I can't control Canada's slow postal system. That's the worst though.

Have shipped all over Europe, and haven't had a problem.

My two horror stories

I've had one Brazilian buyer deny receiving a DS, and I got burned on it. Provided Paypal a scan of the postmarked customs form, which should be proof of shipping, but they want proof of delivery. From other forums and such, it seems like Brazil is the one to watch out for. But I've had two great, honest buyers from Brazil, so I'm really stuck whether to cut them off or not.

And a buyer from Australia bought a Gamecube, not understanding the 50/60 Hz difference in frequency and blew up the adapter. They gave me my first negative feedback out of nearly 1000. Meanwhile, they didn't stop complaining that "the listing said 'free shipping'" but I charged them $50.00, even though I offered them the chance to back out of the purchase when the realized the shipping price. This person was a problem buyer from day one, but what are you going to do - cost of doing business and whatnot.

Way I see it, there's two ways to handle it - I do a combination of the two:

1: Don't do international. It's not that large a portion of my business, it wouldn't severely put me back to not accept bids. And just ignore any questions from international buyers, or respond with a curt "Sorry, this item doesn't ship outside the US". I've pretty much stopped shipping systems further than Canada - partially b/c I have to charge so much for shipping, partially b/c of electrical incompatibility concerns (thanks Australian buyer).

2: Create your own insurance. I charge an arm and a leg for international shipping. I don't feel great about how much I charge. But - I'm not tracking the shipments, I'm risking getting burned. If I DO get burned periodically, the additional funds I've made charging excessive amounts for international shipping more than make up for it - same way any insurance company works. This is how I handle games.



Oh - and if anyone cares to check out my eBay store (and hasn't gotten bored of reading by now), the direct link is www.YourGameStore.net .


EDIT:

For the US - I print ALL my USPS labels out of Paypal, so EVERY record, with proof of delivery, is built into their system already. For international priority, it is as well (systems to Canada go international priority). Huge timesaver too, with "multi-order shipping" - wouldn't have shit for time to do anything without it.[/QUOTE]


If you are using the USPS there is a shipping service you can use that offers tracking to international locations, it costs an arm and a leg but it is insured as well. If you are really set on shipping sensitive electronics to international locations then I would require them to be shipped through this method. Also if you are shipping items over 250$ to international locations then its pretty much required that you use global express or whatever its called to ship them since you need a signature confirmation for those items.

When I sell sensitive electronics I put them up for a buy it now with immediate payment required and block all other countries besides the US from bidding. I also require signature confirmation. I haven't had a problem yet and I have sold a couple ipods and a 300$ Garmin watch. This process should work well for Laptops too.

I base my international shipping on the item, if its something that they cannot claim is broken like a backpack, clothes, a book or video game guide, or a simple toy then it can be shipped internationally, however with most electronics I do not send them worldwide.
 
there are some great opportunity because many things are not available oversea. I made a decent profit flipping Zelda replicate sword from Target to German ebay buyers.
 
Along the lines of the eBay vs. Amazon questions, does anyone else here use half.com (which is owned by eBay)? I've sold a lot of games and DVDs on there and never had any problems until last month when two different buyers tried to do chargebacks on their credit cards for the items they bought from me, never having contacted me with issues or left feedback on the items. Half.com sent me an email both times asking for the tracking info, and when I gave it to them they basically said, "Thanks, we're going to fight the chargeback and your account won't be debited." To make a long story short, I'm glad I had gone through PayPal for shipping in both instances because the DC #'s were what kept me from being penalized for people doing shady chargebacks. Back before half.com was linked up to PayPal for shipping, I would ship from the local drug store with no DC #, and I would have gotten burned if I were still doing that.
 
I must be the only buyer who gets screwed.

I bought an inexpensive student violin off of ebay. I wanted to start lessons without dropping a grand on an instrument. The violin was cheap, but the auction and seller assured me it was a teacher-approved student violin.

I receive it from California and the bridge is cut all messed up. Basically, the piece of wood that holds the strings up off the body of the violin was slanted on one side, making one of the strings lay flat against the instrument, and thus produce a retarded sound. My teacher told me I couldn't use it, and I was pissed off.

The seller was a jerk and only responded to the first email I sent. So I initiated a claim through Paypal, and packaged the violin up for return. I get the information from Paypal and I'm supposed to send it to SINGAPORE. Now, sending a violin + case to the other side of the earth was going to be more than I paid for the damn thing. I contacted Paypal and told them it was unfair because the item a) came from California, and I have UPS tracking to prove it, and b) would cost me more to return it than the item cos originally.

The Paypal guy was generally nice, but told me cases like this were rare and there was nothing they could do unless the package was tracked and delivered back to Singapore, since that was the seller's home address. Really, really wack. So basically it's cheaper for me to keep it and lose the money I spent on it. Tough luck for me.

eBay is full of fucking rip-off artists.
 
Don't know if anyone cares, but I see a lot of hate for the foreign buyer here. I think that you have a valid point. Too many people do try to abuse the system because they feel that they can (and do) get away with it. However, I see WAY too many tradelists that make me feel like a leper for living in Japan.
"I WILL NEVER SHIP OUTSIDE OF THE US NO EXCEPTIONS.... THIS MEANS YOU!!!"
On CAG, I really urge everyone to go case by case and review the feedback. I may not have a couple hundred iTrader like some people do, but I like to think that my near 60 translates to a heck of a lot more having accrued every single point while living in Japan.

It's just really frustrating to find the list with the item you want and to be shot down (or even ignored) simply because you live somewhere else. I feel like the effort I put in to accomodate people buying from me and eating a fair amount of shipping each time is not often reciprocated and it's a little disappointing.
 
I gave up on Paypal almost two years ago. Long story, but I think they're crooks and have a really poor customer service department. Even with consistent documentation and covering my bases, they helped me lose a sale over $1000 and it took six months to get things sorted out. The very brief version of the story is that I made a sale of my music collection (in a lot) and 20 minutes after receiving the payment via Paypal, they locked my account and the next morning the buyer got scared and cancelled his payment. The lock was automatic (acc to the CSR) and was because of the amount. I had never had a sale that big before.

I do still use Ebay sparingly and I use Half.com occasionally, but I only use credit cards when they have a seperate credit card acceptor or pay by money order.

I do all my selling via Amazon Marketplace and have not had 1 hiccup whatsoever. One guy claimed he didnt get something and Amazon took the hit. I didnt get charged for it. Whereas on Paypal, I'd have taken the hit. It was also one of the rare times I did not use delivery confirmation, which I have since learned from.

Stamps.com will do everything that Paypal does in terms of DC/labels etc., so I use them for my shipping.
 
Sorry guys, but once you could no longer neg a seller, you should have stopped using ebay. I still use half, and it makes me nervous, but no way am I selling on ebay and especially not out of country. That's just fucking stupid. Not saying you deserve it, but you REALLY should know better.
 
The thing is, I netted $1200 USD (after fees and shipping) just for selling 130 common music CDs. Where the hell else other than Ebay am I going to get almost $10 per CD? I had to do it. Even though I am getting raped for my $60 from Frenchie McFrencherson, it was still worth it to use Ebay. I suppose a similar argument could be used for the use of Paypal (increases final bid values) but it's the principal of the matter now.
 
honestly there needs to be some compitition.

Some other company that is extactly like Ebay to do auctions, but do it better.

I thought Google was going to, and it would have rocked hard... honestly it would have, but they backed away.

I am wondering if the big G found out that it's not a great model of business. Plus if they don't have something like Paypal... maybe Revolution Money.. they won't blast off at the start.

I haven't sold anything in years and probably won't.

I think I'd rather trade on here or Goozex, or just flat out keep it.
 
The moment I stopped shipping overseas was when I sold 500.00+ worth of non sports autographs to a buyer in France.

I dont recall the time frame it all went down and when I was still a "noob" with pay pal, they filed a dispute.

Im pretty sure it was within 2 wks of me shipping. Anyhoo, I did the dance etc etc with the dispute and finally I pulled a rabbit outta my ass and told them that my post master contacted the post office in france that the package went through and was delivered from and they were told and shown proof that the cards did in fact make it.

I also informed them that because of the amount of the purchase that if they continued to file this fraudulent pay pal dispute, my post office was prepared to file charges against them with the post office there etc etc.

The next day the dispute was dropped.
 
I know what you talking about.
Thats why I stopped using paypal and ebay and I list my stuff either on craigslist or cheapassgamer, which means I only can get checks or money order, which is in some what a minus because you have to wait for the money, but at least you dont have to pay any fees to some ripped off company.
 
How can you even compare eBay and craigslist?

craigslist you're lucky to get about 25-30% of what you get on ebay.
 
[quote name='mietha']Sorry guys, but once you could no longer neg a seller, you should have stopped using ebay. I still use half, and it makes me nervous, but no way am I selling on ebay and especially not out of country. That's just fucking stupid. Not saying you deserve it, but you REALLY should know better.[/QUOTE]

Did you mean 'once you could no longer neg AS a seller'? Because the new feedback policy is just that: Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore, basically eliminating the purpose of feedback in the first place. Buyers can do what ever the hell they want with virtually no penalty.

Being able to sign up for an ebay account with just an email address is the basic problem here. If there were a secure and verifiable registration process to become an ebay member, like with a credit card, most of the unscrupulous joke bidding would go away. It would prevent minors from doing things they have no business doing. And it would stop every tom, dick, and mary with a Hotmail account from joining ebay, fucking with a few people then abandoning the account.
 
I thought you needed more than JUST an e-mail account to register and start bidding.

There are two options that I see as reasonable in my case - I'm a store, everything's BIN, but I don't require instant payment.

1: Make it possible for me to require instant payment in a way similar to that which I can ban buyers, in addition to the option of those with 0 feedback's (for the uninformed, eBay let's me block users with below zero, but not with zero exactly, not that I'd want to anyway). I get some experienced buyers who don't pay right away - that's fine with me - they always come through. The zeroes tick me off though, and I can't do anything about it w/o penalizing ALL my buyers. I'd like to require anyone with below 5 fb to have to pay immediately.

2: This one's more complex, but still reasonable considering eBay owns Paypal and fucking forces us all to use it. Require a Paypal "escrow" system. Before you can bid or buy, you have to HAVE that much money in your pp account. When you BID (not when you win) you select your shipping, and your funds are frozen. When the auctions over, you pay automatically because the money is already set aside. The only disadvantage to this is it would reduce the amount of bidding b/c people would "think more" before placing bids, and it may reduce some impulse factor - but it would be a nice bone to throw the sellers after laying down so many limitations on us in the last year. This is basically a "Require immediate payment when bidding" for auctions - similarly, I'd just be happy if they'd do this for users with under a small amount of feedback, just so the first time that people use eBay, they understand that yes, they will be BUYING AN PAYING FOR this item if they win.
 
This isn't a complaint about paypal but it deals with it and I need to vent somehow and this seems like the best topic for it. So, I msg a kid on this site about a purchase. He tells me he wants paypal. So, me I couldn't set my paypal account up til school started back and I was on my own internet. I get everything set up FOUR days later, the day I moved back into my dorm. I send a message to this bitch and he never replies. Then I find out he sold it to someone else knowingly he told me to tell him to tell him when I have it set up so he can sell it to me. I mean what the hell seriously? Is that wrong for me to be pissed off?
 
[quote name='Zenjiro']This isn't a complaint about paypal but it deals with it and I need to vent somehow and this seems like the best topic for it. So, I msg a kid on this site about a purchase. He tells me he wants paypal. So, me I couldn't set my paypal account up til school started back and I was on my own internet. I get everything set up FOUR days later, the day I moved back into my dorm. I send a message to this bitch and he never replies. Then I find out he sold it to someone else knowingly he told me to tell him to tell him when I have it set up so he can sell it to me. I mean what the hell seriously? Is that wrong for me to be pissed off?[/QUOTE]

Did he said he was okay with waiting?
 
I just don't ship out of the U.S. unless the buyer agrees to UPS, which they never do.

They want to protect the buyers, but it seems like the sellers are getting fucked more and more.

I rarely use eBay now to sell, but I have made some good deals on there and met some good people. There are just too many scumbags on there looking for a freebie about half of the time.
 
[quote name='pfp']I thought you needed more than JUST an e-mail account to register and start bidding.

[/QUOTE]

Nope, all you need is a valid email address so that you can click the email verification link to set up an account and start bidding. Any Jerkoff can just create a new account anytime he wants and start screwing up the process. There is no ID verification, nada.

How many times as sellers have you had a person bid or buy one one of your items with (0) feedback ? You then look up the user history and find out the account was created that very day the auction was listed and, lo and behold, they end up never paying for the auction. 80% of my non-paying bidders follow this pattern. I'm starting to believe that some may be people with competing items, or people who have a personal vendetta against me.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Nope, all you need is a valid email address so that you can click the email verification link to set up an account and start bidding. Any Jerkoff can just create a new account anytime he wants and start screwing up the process. There is no ID verification, nada.

How many times as sellers have you had a person bid or buy one one of your items with (0) feedback ? You then look up the user history and find out the account was created that very day the auction was listed and, lo and behold, they end up never paying for the auction. 80% of my non-paying bidders follow this pattern. I'm starting to believe that some may be people with competing items, or people who have a personal vendetta against me.[/quote]


That's exactly why you check the setting to not allow noobs to bid on your stuff. On the one hand it sucks because you want to help the legit buyers get their start unfortunately eBay's non-verification process and those non-paying ass clowns ruin it for the bunch.


EDIT: I did have one low feedback success story. I had a guy with zero feedback win my PSP phat auction a couple years back. I thought I was fucked but he paid right away and had great communication. In fact the downfall was he was in communication with me TOO OFTEN! He kept asking me for info on custom firmware and stuff like that.
 
well, I'd love to check such a box, but unfortunately there isn't one to exclude new users. There's only the conditions to exclude users with negative feedback, or less than zero feedback, and those that have more than one non-payment strike within the last 30 days.

That's another reason why the non-pay strike is just a wet noodle. Not only is negative feedback been eliminated for buyers, but they can just not pay, get a strike, wait 30 days and start the process all over again. Sellers have no recourse at all.



The main reason I responded to this thread in the first place is because I'm currently having an issue with Paypal. Funds from a buyer are being "investigated" and subsequently held until that "investigation" is over. I got an email telling me I had to respond by 1/16 so that these funds would not be in jeopardy of being reversed. For the life of me, I spent an hour trying to add a note to the "incident" but kept getting booted out of the page and then my session timing out. This happened at least 8 times before I called Paypal to try to get some information. They wanted proof of shipping. I got even more mad because I purchased the damn postage THROUGH PAYPAL. They had a record of the purchase, the confirmation number, and the confirmed address. What the hell did they need from me when they already HAD all the freaking information?

Of course, they never give YOU information about such disputes. They claim it's against their privacy policy. I got angry and tried to explain that the buyer and I entered into a contract with this person and they were no longer private. I had a right to know the details of this "investigation" of MY MONEY, so the only rights they should be protecting were MINE. I then decided to email the buyer. She responded almost immediately and told me she wasn't disputing anything but just got some email message from Paypal that her payment was being held. She could be lying, of course, but I'm inclined to doubt it because of the pleasant emails we exchanged about it.

The real bitch of the matter is that I have a disclaimer on all my auctions that I don't ship until 48 hours after receiving payment. Paypal has done this shit to me before and the last time they told me that after 48 hours, I would be safe from such incidents in the future. I guess I broke my own rule when I decided to ship 36 hours instead of 48 and came home to an email about this "investigation". They have told me the funds will be released withing 7-10 days after the item gets delivered. So now I am reliant on the USPS to deliver this thing in order to get my money.

This transaction seems to have been pulled out of a hat to be "investigated" and is no way to be doing business. There are systemic issues with Paypal that may not be possible to be resolved.
 
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Bmulligan -

ask the buyer to please give their bank a call. It's not always the buyer that starts the investigation, but if they don't buy online a lot, and all of a sudden did 3 purchases on eBay in one day, the bank may have gotten suspicious about it, in order to protect their customer. Bank's are responsible to protect themselves if a credit card is stolen, since they're responsible for all but the first $50.00, so if it looks fishy, they have paypal hold the funds.

I've had this happen at least once, maybe twice.

Buyer contacted their bank, and it was cleared up pretty quick.


If the buyer/buyer's bank know nothing of it (or claim such), I'd wait it out. I haven't had much problem in the "seemingly random investigation" situations.



AND to ChiTown -

BMulligan's right, you can't ban zero fb's - I just wish I could force them to pay immediately - I wouldn't want to ban them, i think they're 10-15% of my business!
 
I remember in my teens, I sold my x-men #1 years ago on ebay for $500, the person called my house and urged me to use Paypal, so I did, and a week later Paypal yanks my money and I can't get a hold of the person on the phone. So the pigs kept my stuff and their money.

Any service that has a noteriety of doing that can go to heck in my book.
 
[quote name='redroversk']I remember in my teens, I sold my x-men #1 years ago on ebay for $500, the person called my house and urged me to use Paypal, so I did, and a week later Paypal yanks my money and I can't get a hold of the person on the phone. So the pigs kept my stuff and their money.

Any service that has a noteriety of doing that can go to heck in my book.[/quote]

Yup, that's how they roll.

I only use paypal to buy and then I always use my credit cards - their windows for dispute often fall outside the window in which I would recieve the item, so it's nice to have the CC company backing my purchases.

Anyone who links thier bank account to Paypal and uses it to buy/sell is a grade-A fool.

I've got a problem now - I want to sell a lot of DVDs and it looks like Ebay is the only way. Oh well, I guess it's better then trashing them.
 
As a buyer I've never liked Paypal and won't use it.

I only pay via US Postal Money Orders (even though the ones from the cashier/check cashing places cost half as much).

Sucks that Ebay has there policy of no money orders. I'm still able to get most sellers to agree to it since I have perfect feedback (and they get more money since no Paypal fees) but it sucks when they say no. :(
 
What? No money orders? When the hell did this happen? I still list money order as a form of payment and I get one every so often.



And thanks for the potential explanation of my situation, pfp, I'd love to contact the buyer again and get to the bottom of it, but Paypal held the payment AFTER I already sent the merchandise. I may just want to wait this one out and not inform the buyer that they're getting merchandise even without me getting their payment. I purposefully never mentioned to the buyer that I already sent the item.

The situation is absurd, though. Paypal is the one who should be taking the hit on this, not me. I'm a legitimate, verified seller and they should be the ones to have their funds at risk, not me. They are the ones taking the fees for transactions from random people, and those fees are supposed to cover my security. I have no choice in who decides to pay me and I did nothing wrong. It defeats the entire purpose of using Paypal in the first place if they cannot verify the issuer of payment is legitimate.
 
I've been saying it for months. Now is the time for Google to jump out of nowhere with a new auction site. They could blow eBay and Amazon right out of the water. Charge less fees and have more customers, and they'll be raking in the money.
 
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