I want 2D games, and I want them on the Playstation 3!

Wolfpup

Wolfpup

CAGiversary!
Disclaimer-I'm singling the Playstation 3 out as the best system for this as the 360 has a terrible D-pad (and poor tools for 2D). Obviously Nintendo franchises would have to be on the Wii though.

While I love that Konami has continued the real Castlevania series on the GBA and now DS, and I love portable games, I've always wished they'd do ones on the "big" systems, just because the games could look and sound so much better (and potentially be larger too).

We never saw it on the Playstation 2/'Cube/X-Box, so now I'd love to see one on the Playstation 3. Symphony of the Night is STILL gorgeous, and that was running on a system with 3.5MB. Think about it-on the Playstation 3 you could throw 100s of MB of 2D art up on the screen in high resolution :drool:

Besides Castlevania, I'd also love to see (IN 2D):

-Mega Man 9
-Tomba 3 (okay, this was 2D gameplay in 3D graphics, but still)
-Super Mario Bros.
-Street Fighter 4
-Metroid 5
-Bonk's Adventure 5
-Air Zonk 2
-Wonder Boy in Monster World (which would be...I don't know, Wonder Boy 12, Monster World 7.5? ;) )

Plus original games.

I'm sure I'm missing something from that list (probably something obvious).

Anyone else want to see more 2D games on the "big" systems?
 
SCEA's track record with the PS2 doesn't bode well for your hopes.

I too share the desire to have 2D gaming return to the main-stream, especailly with the power these new systems have. Sadly, it seems relegated to the handhelds and download services now.

While I love sprite artwork and feel there's no better way to do 2D games (Drill Dozer, Yoshi's Island), I'm impressed with how the Capcom Mega Man remakes on PSP and the new games on DS like Sonic Rush and New Super Mario Bros. handled using 3D models in a 2D gaming space. Seeing thew power of the 360, PS3, or Wii behind titles like that would be a lot of fun, I think. :)
 
[quote name='daroga']SCEA's track record with the PS2 doesn't bode well for your hopes.

I too share the desire to have 2D gaming return to the main-stream, especailly with the power these new systems have. Sadly, it seems relegated to the handhelds and download services now.

While I love sprite artwork and feel there's no better way to do 2D games (Drill Dozer, Yoshi's Island), I'm impressed with how the Capcom Mega Man remakes on PSP and the new games on DS like Sonic Rush and New Super Mario Bros. handled using 3D models in a 2D gaming space. Seeing thew power of the 360, PS3, or Wii behind titles like that would be a lot of fun, I think. :)[/QUOTE]

SCEA had more 2-D games released in the US than Microsoft and Nintendo combined, though.

Everyone rags on their policies but they STILL brought out a ton of 2-D games.

It's not that Sony won't allow 2-D on a PS3, it's that everyone in the world now wants flashy amazing 3D graphics to take advantage of their new $600 system... 2-D is going to be regulated to stuff like the VC or XBLA.

I mean, 360 has been out in the US for a year now, I can't think of one 2-D retail release game for it or one that is coming out soon.
 
well PS3 is region free, so just import. Someone like SNK will keep pumping out 2d games as long as they are selling.
 
I wish we could get more 2D as well. I'm kind of hoping that LIVE arcade, Wii VC, and Sony's store will be a good place for new 2D games.
 
[quote name='62t']well PS3 is region free, so just import. Someone like SNK will keep pumping out 2d games as long as they are selling.[/QUOTE]

SNK is starting to phase out 2-D... I've heard rumors that this King of Fighters game they are making now will be the last one ever made in 2-D. And, looking back on it, SNK dosen't really have any 2-D games in the future pipeline besides collections of their old games and the new KoF.

They've already taken Metal Slug and KoF into 3D, even SNK seems to realize the money lies in 3D properties.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the new MotW game was in 3D. Was it even confirmed for 2D?
 
well the new Samurai Spirits, Samurai Spirits Sen is 3D. But the 2D KoF games are selling and thhe 3D are not, so I dont really see SNK giving up. There will probably be more shumup too from smaller developer.
 
[quote name='daroga']SCEA's track record with the PS2 doesn't bode well for your hopes.

I too share the desire to have 2D gaming return to the main-stream, especailly with the power these new systems have. Sadly, it seems relegated to the handhelds and download services now.

While I love sprite artwork and feel there's no better way to do 2D games (Drill Dozer, Yoshi's Island), I'm impressed with how the Capcom Mega Man remakes on PSP and the new games on DS like Sonic Rush and New Super Mario Bros. handled using 3D models in a 2D gaming space. Seeing thew power of the 360, PS3, or Wii behind titles like that would be a lot of fun, I think. :)[/QUOTE]

Personally I was really disappointed with the graphics in Mega Man Powered Up. It looked okay, but IMO no where near what even the SNES can do in 2D (let alone the PSP). I actually prefered most of the 2D NES Mega Man game's graphics. The 3D just looked generic to me. New Super Mario Bros. and Sonic Rush both looked surprisingly good though (haven't played more than a level of NSMB 'cause it's in my "to play" pile).
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']Just to let the OP know, it's Tomba 2 he's talking about, not 3, it doesn't exist....though I sorely wish it did.[/quote]
He listed sequels he'd like to see from what I can tell.
 
Speaking of Tomba, where the hey is Whoopee Camp? My understanding is it was ex-Capcom employees (it showed!) and then were they owned by Sony? Or just published second party?

Either way, where the heck are they now. I never got to play the original Tomba, but Tomba 2 was for me the first GREAT platformer since Super Mario World or Super Mario Bros. 3. It was really deep, and had fantastic gameplay. Since then most platformers have been really shallow, and then 3D platformers aren't really the same thing (and I'm even starting to miss THEM now there have been so few good ones).
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Speaking of Tomba, where the hey is Whoopee Camp? My understanding is it was ex-Capcom employees (it showed!) and then were they owned by Sony? Or just published second party?

Either way, where the heck are they now. I never got to play the original Tomba, but Tomba 2 was for me the first GREAT platformer since Super Mario World or Super Mario Bros. 3. It was really deep, and had fantastic gameplay. Since then most platformers have been really shallow, and then 3D platformers aren't really the same thing (and I'm even starting to miss THEM now there have been so few good ones).[/quote]
It seems that they split after Tomba 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopee_camp
 
I KNEW I'd forget something! Bonk's Adventure! Those were GREAT platformers that sooooo need a sequel.

I'd like Air Zonk too, so that goes on the list. One of my favorite shooters ever.

And Wonder Boy! The one released on the Genesis in the US was fantastic. Needs a sequel (released here) so badly.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']I wouldn't be surprised at all if the new MotW game was in 3D. Was it even confirmed for 2D?[/QUOTE]
Uh, what new MotW game??
 
From what I understand (I may be wrong), Sony pressured Konami out of releasing a 2D Castlevania on the PS2. That's one series that should have never known the third dimension.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']From what I understand (I may be wrong), Sony pressured Konami out of releasing a 2D Castlevania on the PS2. That's one series that should have never known the third dimension.[/quote]QFT. If only Konami and Sega had understood that some classic franchises just do not work in 3D.

At least Castlevania has found life in the handheld market, though. Poor Sonic. A new Sonic Rush series is his only hope (or maybe the 2D-in-concept on-rails game for the Wii).
 
[quote name='rabbitt']From what I understand (I may be wrong), Sony pressured Konami out of releasing a 2D Castlevania on the PS2. That's one series that should have never known the third dimension.[/QUOTE]

IGA was also pretty adamant about moving the series into 3D which is where he felt the profit and the future of the series was.

Since then, he's taken back his statements.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']IGA was also pretty adamant about moving the series into 3D which is where he felt the profit and the future of the series was.

Since then, he's taken back his statements.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm not sure I agreed with him then, or when he allowed his wife control over the character designs. Or maybe dressing in the latest trends is necessary for Vampire killing.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']Yeah, I'm not sure I agreed with him then, or when he allowed his wife control over the character designs. Or maybe dressing in the latest trends is necessary for Vampire killing.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to make a good 3D Castlevania, I thought Lament of Innocence had some awesome gameplay but was marred by drab environments which killed the game. Too many damn hallways, but the whip action was soooo nice, imo.

Curse of Darkness was like 10 steps backwards, imo.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to make a good 3D Castlevania, I thought Lament of Innocence had some awesome gameplay but was marred by drab environments which killed the game. Too many damn hallways, but the whip action was soooo nice, imo.

Curse of Darkness was like 10 steps backwards, imo.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Curse of Darkness was just... bad. I still really liked LoI because even though the levels were copied and pasted hallways, there was still enough exploration and the combat was great.

Honestly though, I'd just like to see an uber high-rez SOTN... or a 2D Castlevania that looks good.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to make a good 3D Castlevania, I thought Lament of Innocence had some awesome gameplay but was marred by drab environments which killed the game. Too many damn hallways, but the whip action was soooo nice, imo.

Curse of Darkness was like 10 steps backwards, imo.[/QUOTE]

I did actually like the first hour or so of Lament of Innocence - it had some solid elements to it. I really don't think it'd be hard to pull a dedicated team together and make a 3D Castlevania to write home about. Hey - maybe you and I can get together and make it happen? ;)
 
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[quote name='Roufuss']Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to make a good 3D Castlevania, I thought Lament of Innocence had some awesome gameplay but was marred by drab environments which killed the game. Too many damn hallways, but the whip action was soooo nice, imo.

Curse of Darkness was like 10 steps backwards, imo.[/QUOTE]I went into Lament of Innocence hoping for something vagrant story-esque.

I was so disappointed that I could never finish it...
 
-Mega Man 9
-Tomba 3 (okay, this was 2D gameplay in 3D graphics, but still)
-Super Mario Bros.
-Street Fighter 4
-Metroid 5
-Bonk's Adventure 5
-Air Zonk 2
-Wonder Boy in Monster World




Umm....?
 
[quote name='hhhdx4']-Mega Man 9
-Tomba 3 (okay, this was 2D gameplay in 3D graphics, but still)
-Super Mario Bros.
-Street Fighter 4
-Metroid 5
-Bonk's Adventure 5
-Air Zonk 2
-Wonder Boy in Monster World




Umm....?[/quote]
Obviously Nintendo franchises would have to be on the Wii though.
Click to expand...
;)
 
Yeah the best hope for 2D games is the VC, XBLA, and whatever the PS3 has. I'm starting to think platformers in general just don't work in 3D.
 
I love 2D, I wish they would release more 2D goodness for the home consoles, but I dont understand the op's desire to see 2D on the PS3. Why would you make a $700 investment in hardware to play 2D games that will use maybe 5% of that power?

Theres already 100 million PS2's out there, I think they should develop new 2D ip's for the PS2. Development costs are cheap, and the installed base is there. Games could be released at budget prices ($20), and they wouldnt need to sell a million copies to make money. And these games could also be played on the PS3, but to develop 2D games exclusively for the PS3 makes no sense to me.
 
[quote name='Puffa469']I love 2D, I wish they would release more 2D goodness for the home consoles, but I dont understand the op's desire to see 2D on the PS3. Why would you make a $700 investment in hardware to play 2D games that will use maybe 5% of that power? [/quote]

Because I don't want to see it using 5% of it's power, I want to see it using all it's power put towards awesome 2D games.

Theres already 100 million PS2's out there, I think they should develop new 2D ip's for the PS2. Development costs are cheap, and the installed base is there. Games could be released at budget prices ($20), and they wouldnt need to sell a million copies to make money. And these games could also be played on the PS3
Click to expand...

I'd love that too, but I really want to see cutting edge 2D graphics, not what a six year old console can do with it. The Playstation 3's graphic potential is so much better in that regard it's not funny.

[quote name='VAD3R or Fro']Virtual Console[/QUOTE]

Doesn't help anything. I'm talking about new high-end games. Beyond that VC games are tied to a single console so I'm not going to touch it.

[quote name='hhhdx4']-Mega Man 9
-Tomba 3 (okay, this was 2D gameplay in 3D graphics, but still)
-Super Mario Bros.
-Street Fighter 4
-Metroid 5
-Bonk's Adventure 5
-Air Zonk 2
-Wonder Boy in Monster World

Umm....?[/QUOTE]

"Umm" what?

[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Have fun waiting. 2D is dead for a reason.[/QUOTE]

And what reason would that be?
 
2-D hit a glass ceiling a long time ago... Playstation 3 has tons of power but not even the greatest 2-D game ever made would even come CLOSE to tapping that power, that is why it's a waste.

Hell, I doubt any PS2 2-D game could come close to tapping the full power of the PS2, but its more cost effective to put it on the PS2, which is what Puffa was saying.
 
The time and costs to make a 2D game of the quality you want would make a game cost nearly as much as a 3D game and cut out a huge portion of potential customers. The odds of this happening are next to nothing, unless you find a rich person who doesn't mind wasting a few million.
 
In addition to 2D games, I wouldn't mind seeing the older 3D stuff get a fresh coat of paint. Spruce up FF7, get the SNES Star Fox running at more than 3.5 FPS.

But, 2D is perhaps still the best method for games, not because there's anything inhierently wrong with 3D, but it's soooo much harder and more time consuming to make an ok 3D game than it is to make a great 2D game. Remember 2D games with no clipping or camera problems?
 
[quote name='Roufuss']2-D hit a glass ceiling a long time ago... Playstation 3 has tons of power but not even the greatest 2-D game ever made would even come CLOSE to tapping that power, that is why it's a waste.

Hell, I doubt any PS2 2-D game could come close to tapping the full power of the PS2, but its more cost effective to put it on the PS2, which is what Puffa was saying.[/QUOTE]

Not true at all. There is no "glass ceiling" with 2D any more than there is with 3D. I mean sure some day we'll hit a limit if hardware power keeps increasing and development costs don't spiral out of control, but that's probably decades off at a minimum.

[quote name='Genocidal']The time and costs to make a 2D game of the quality you want would make a game cost nearly as much as a 3D game and cut out a huge portion of potential customers. The odds of this happening are next to nothing, unless you find a rich person who doesn't mind wasting a few million.[/QUOTE]


Is this any longer true? I sure hope people aren't that backwards. TONS of great DS and GBA games are 2D and have sold well, so holding out more and more hope that publishers will get the message and give 2D a shot again.

[quote name='daroga']But, 2D is perhaps still the best method for games, not because there's anything inhierently wrong with 3D, but it's soooo much harder and more time consuming to make an ok 3D game than it is to make a great 2D game. Remember 2D games with no clipping or camera problems?[/QUOTE]

I've kind of disliked how camera control has become an actual part of gameplay now-like most console games you're actually having to fiddle with the camera all the time as part of the game.
That REALLY bothered me about Mario 64 back in the day. I guess I've become more used to it combined with it being less of a hassle with two analog sticks on most systems (ie playing Final Fantasy 12 I don't consciously think "I'm moving the camera around" like I used to in games) but it is kind of annoying...

although I suppose we do it in real life, which is maybe why it's less annoying in newer games.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Not true at all. There is no "glass ceiling" with 2D any more than there is with 3D. I mean sure some day we'll hit a limit if hardware power keeps increasing and development costs don't spiral out of control, but that's probably decades off at a minimum.[/quote]

I disagree. 3D games get better looking because more powerful game engines can use more polygons to make up the character models, same deal with the enemies, level design, etc. They can also place more and more of these objects into the environment.

3D has yet to realize its full potential. I want to be able to walk thru a forest full of trees, bushes, rocks, ferns, grass, birds, bugs, etc, and have every one of those objects sway in the breeze, be covered in realtime lighting, cast real shadows that move as the sun moves thru the sky, etc.

2D sprites are limited to the resolution of your tv screen. The best you can possibly hope for is 1080p high def sprites. last gens consoles can already push more sprites around on the screen than you can count, and thats with a million particle effects and whatever other graphical goodies you want to add.

2D has definitely reached its zenith in terms of technical acheivement. The room for improvement lies on the creative side.
 
I want 2D games, and I want them on the Playstation 3!

"Gamers...versus...Focu$ Group$...Round 1...FIGHT!!"

(Two seconds later)

"PER-FECT!! Focu$ Group$ WIN!! Round 2...FIGHT!!"

(Two seconds later)

"PER-FECT!! Focu$ Group$ WIN!! Player 1, Continue?...to fight the impossible fight??...."
 
[quote name='Wolfpup'] Is this any longer true? I sure hope people aren't that backwards. TONS of great DS and GBA games are 2D and have sold well, so holding out more and more hope that publishers will get the message and give 2D a shot again.[/quote]I would be willing to argue that a beautiful 2D DS game would not be anywhere near as graphically detailed as a beautiful 2D console game, but I may be misunderstanding what exactly you want. And I wouldn't necessarily say people are 'backwards' as you put it -- they spent a lot more on their PS3 than their DS and people generally want to feel that whatever they've bought is worth it. Developers can make people happy with 2D on a handheld, but with the consoles we've got out today, anyone even interested in 2D will wonder why the game came out on the latest and greatest hardware.
 
[quote name='daroga']QFT. If only Konami and Sega had understood that some classic franchises just do not work in 3D.

At least Castlevania has found life in the handheld market, though. Poor Sonic. A new Sonic Rush series is his only hope (or maybe the 2D-in-concept on-rails game for the Wii).[/QUOTE]

Indeed. It looks like the handhelds, retro downloads, and possibly the Wii are going to be the last bastions.

Dragon Quest to the DS and not the PS3 means something, folks.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163073.html
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']
I've kind of disliked how camera control has become an actual part of gameplay now-like most console games you're actually having to fiddle with the camera all the time as part of the game.
That REALLY bothered me about Mario 64 back in the day. I guess I've become more used to it combined with it being less of a hassle with two analog sticks on most systems (ie playing Final Fantasy 12 I don't consciously think "I'm moving the camera around" like I used to in games) but it is kind of annoying...

although I suppose we do it in real life, which is maybe why it's less annoying in newer games.[/QUOTE]

I hate this too in 3D platformers, but in games like Splinter Cell I don't mind it. As you said, with the two analog sticks (and also with camera aim being related to character movement) it doesn't feel like you're doing extra work just controlling the camera.

As for 2D games, like some CAGs said I don't know if the full power of the PS3 can actually be used. Once you get say a hundred detailed sprites on the screen at 1080p60, what do you do next?
 
[quote name='Puffa469']I disagree. 3D games get better looking because more powerful game engines can use more polygons to make up the character models, same deal with the enemies, level design, etc. They can also place more and more of these objects into the environment. [/quote]

Ditto for 2D, except replace "polygons" with "2D art".

3D has yet to realize its full potential. I want to be able to walk thru a forest full of trees, bushes, rocks, ferns, grass, birds, bugs, etc, and have every one of those objects sway in the breeze, be covered in realtime lighting, cast real shadows that move as the sun moves thru the sky, etc.
Click to expand...

2D hasn't remotely hit a limit either.

2D sprites are limited to the resolution of your tv screen. The best you can possibly hope for is 1080p high def sprites. last gens consoles can already push more sprites around on the screen than you can count, and thats with a million particle effects and whatever other graphical goodies you want to add.
Click to expand...

In terms of individual sprites, sure PS2 class hardware can push around tons-just like it can push around tons of polygons. In terms of actually creating beautiful games out of it, the new systems can do MUCH better in 2D and 3D than the old ones.

2D has definitely reached its zenith in terms of technical acheivement. The room for improvement lies on the creative side.
Click to expand...

No it hasn't. Why do you say that? It's not even close. There's no question a Wii 2 or Playstation 4 or whatever could do much better 2D than the Playstation 3 can.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']I would be willing to argue that a beautiful 2D DS game would not be anywhere near as graphically detailed as a beautiful 2D console game, but I may be misunderstanding what exactly you want. And I wouldn't necessarily say people are 'backwards' as you put it -- they spent a lot more on their PS3 than their DS and people generally want to feel that whatever they've bought is worth it. Developers can make people happy with 2D on a handheld, but with the consoles we've got out today, anyone even interested in 2D will wonder why the game came out on the latest and greatest hardware.[/QUOTE]

Not if they're using the hardware to it's fullest in 2D. There may well still be a bias against 2D, but that's different whether or not a game is using the platform to it's fullest.

And I've bought dozens of GBA and DS games *BECAUSE* they're 2D, not despite it. I probably would have only bought 1/8th as many GBA games as I have if they were all doing 3D. Although conversely I probably would have bought fewer GBA and DS games if the "big" consoles had just as many 2D games that looked as much better as their 3D games do.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Should of bought a Wii?[/QUOTE]

Huh? Did you read the thread?

[quote name='jollydwarf']I want 2D games, and I want them on the Playstation 3!

"Gamers...versus...Focu$ Group$...Round 1...FIGHT!!"

(Two seconds later)

"PER-FECT!! Focu$ Group$ WIN!! Round 2...FIGHT!!"

(Two seconds later)

"PER-FECT!! Focu$ Group$ WIN!! Player 1, Continue?...to fight the impossible fight??...."[/QUOTE]

That's about right. They need to quit hiring Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel for their focus groups :D

[quote name='Genocidal']I would be willing to argue that a beautiful 2D DS game would not be anywhere near as graphically detailed as a beautiful 2D console game, but I may be misunderstanding what exactly you want. And I wouldn't necessarily say people are 'backwards' as you put it -- they spent a lot more on their PS3 than their DS and people generally want to feel that whatever they've bought is worth it. Developers can make people happy with 2D on a handheld, but with the consoles we've got out today, anyone even interested in 2D will wonder why the game came out on the latest and greatest hardware.[/QUOTE]

Not if they're using the hardware to it's fullest in 2D. There may well still be a bias against 2D, but that's different whether or not a game is using the platform to it's fullest.

And I've bought dozens of GBA and DS games *BECAUSE* they're 2D, not despite it. I probably would have only bought 1/8th as many GBA games as I have if they were all doing 3D. Although conversely I probably would have bought fewer GBA and DS games if the "big" consoles had just as many 2D games that looked as much better as their 3D games do.

[quote name='rickonker']
As for 2D games, like some CAGs said I don't know if the full power of the PS3 can actually be used. Once you get say a hundred detailed sprites on the screen at 1080p60, what do you do next?[/QUOTE]

First, assuming they do 720p, that's at LEAST 3 times higher resolution than the PS2 can do (and probably more, since few PS2 games can push that resolution). On top of that, it has over 10x more RAM, meaning over 10x more detailed graphics-and possibly more than that as quite possibly PS3 could store art in a compressed format using either the GPU or SPEs to decode it on the fly (which the PS2 can't do).
And on top of THAT just the raw power and fill rate is much greater than the PS2.

There's just no comparison.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']2-D hit a glass ceiling a long time ago... Playstation 3 has tons of power but not even the greatest 2-D game ever made would even come CLOSE to tapping that power, that is why it's a waste.

Hell, I doubt any PS2 2-D game could come close to tapping the full power of the PS2, but its more cost effective to put it on the PS2, which is what Puffa was saying.[/QUOTE]


disagreed strongly. Let's say you had a 2d fighter but with Hi-def graphics, every art frame is hand painted, animates better than a disney movie, and has dynamic backgrounds. Let's just say every character's animation data would be the equivalent of half a DVD since the quality would be so nice... it can happen, it'll just be a pain in the ass to make.
 
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