alonzomourning23
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Indian girl's one-rupee suicide
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Mr Unoriginal
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We all want the blue candle, but the world isn't fair.
Trancendental
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Do you realize it cost $80,000 a year to keep Terry Schaivo alive?
That means for .009% of the cost of keeping Terry Schaivo's brain-dead body alive, and in pain, through bizzarre Frankenstein machines, this little girl in India could have been given proper nourishment for the entire year.
That means for .009% of the cost of keeping Terry Schaivo's brain-dead body alive, and in pain, through bizzarre Frankenstein machines, this little girl in India could have been given proper nourishment for the entire year.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']We all want the blue candle, but the world isn't fair.[/QUOTE]
While I've never heard that blue candle part, but india is not like ethiopia. There is absolutely massive inequality, but the country has a large middle and upper class with a booming economy. China, which is often compared to india, has only about 10% of children malnourished (compared to 50% in india) and is improving the living conditions of their poor at a much faster rate, and both countries suffer from corrupt local officials that the federal government often has difficulty controlling. In many ways india is still an extremely poor third world country, but it shouldn't be.
While I've never heard that blue candle part, but india is not like ethiopia. There is absolutely massive inequality, but the country has a large middle and upper class with a booming economy. China, which is often compared to india, has only about 10% of children malnourished (compared to 50% in india) and is improving the living conditions of their poor at a much faster rate, and both countries suffer from corrupt local officials that the federal government often has difficulty controlling. In many ways india is still an extremely poor third world country, but it shouldn't be.
SilverPaw750
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That's terrible 
Who are you to judge the value of a life? I don't support the government's intervention in the Schiavo case, the court battles, and I believe in the right-to-die.
But until the next-of-kin makes the decision to take someone off those machines, nobody should interfere. It's not your place to judge value.
What is your monthly videogame budget? $40? $50? $200? For that $50, you could keep a girl in india fed at school for 10 years.
But until the next-of-kin makes the decision to take someone off those machines, nobody should interfere. It's not your place to judge value.
What is your monthly videogame budget? $40? $50? $200? For that $50, you could keep a girl in india fed at school for 10 years.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Quillion']Who are you to judge the value of a life? I don't support the government's intervention in the Schiavo case, the court battles, and I believe in the right-to-die.
But until the next-of-kin makes the decision to take someone off those machines, nobody should interfere. It's not your place to judge value.
What is your monthly videogame budget? $40? $50? $200? For that $50, you could keep a girl in india fed at school for 10 years.[/QUOTE]
You do realize the husband is considered next of kin.
But until the next-of-kin makes the decision to take someone off those machines, nobody should interfere. It's not your place to judge value.
What is your monthly videogame budget? $40? $50? $200? For that $50, you could keep a girl in india fed at school for 10 years.[/QUOTE]
You do realize the husband is considered next of kin.
[quote name='alonzomourning23']While I've never heard that blue candle part, but india is not like ethiopia. There is absolutely massive inequality, but the country has a large middle and upper class with a booming economy. China, which is often compared to india, has only about 10% of children malnourished (compared to 50% in india) and is improving the living conditions of their poor at a much faster rate, and both countries suffer from corrupt local officials that the federal government often has difficulty controlling. In many ways india is still an extremely poor third world country, but it shouldn't be.[/QUOTE]
I think it was a Zelda reference, dude.
I think it was a Zelda reference, dude.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='evanft']I think it was a Zelda reference, dude.[/QUOTE]
oh, I thought it was an "everyone wants to be rich" type comment.
oh, I thought it was an "everyone wants to be rich" type comment.
[quote name='alonzomourning23']You do realize the husband is considered next of kin.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and when he said take her off, they should have taken her off. That was the point I was trying to make. That it was his decision, not the government's, not camoors. He was the one to judge the value of her life.
Yes, and when he said take her off, they should have taken her off. That was the point I was trying to make. That it was his decision, not the government's, not camoors. He was the one to judge the value of her life.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Quillion']Yes, and when he said take her off, they should have taken her off. That was the point I was trying to make. That it was his decision, not the government's, not camoors. He was the one to judge the value of her life.[/QUOTE]
Settle down Beavis.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.
Settle down Beavis.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.
[quote name='camoor']Settle down Beavis.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.[/QUOTE]
I am settled. Who established those percentages? Why does skin color and religious prefrence make a difference to you? Who gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies?
My answer? Save both.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.[/QUOTE]
I am settled. Who established those percentages? Why does skin color and religious prefrence make a difference to you? Who gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies?
My answer? Save both.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Quillion']I am settled. Who established those percentages? Why does skin color and religious prefrence make a difference to you? Who gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies?
My answer? Save both.[/QUOTE]
What a pat answer, the kind of simplistic thinking I've come to expect from you.
It's a hypothetical situation for a reason - doctors face these decisions every day and they have to decide to work on saving one person or another first.
In a similar way, we should be shifting more attention to the poverty-stricken, oppressed, and starving people of the world and spending less medicare (READ federal money AKA my tax dollars) on hopeless cases like Schaivo that are turned into religious crusades by a bunch of politically motivated, illogical fanatics.
.009% of the Schaivo support money could have saved a little girl. Instead approximately 11,000 times that amount of money was wasted on keeping a brain-dead woman's body alive, and the political support that was drummed up was not based on science (which had all but declared her dead) but the fact that by saving Schaivo you were somehow saving christianity (I really don't even know what the christian's point was).
Obviously we don't have enough money to save every dying person (even if we could eliminate the new Middle East crusades and getting those corporations their welfare checks on time). That's why I'd rather save 11,000 starving children instead of one brain-dead adult, and I think everyone would agree with that statement until we started filling in race and religion.
If the christians had voted to shoulder the cost on their own, then I would have less of a say - but when you spend MY tax dollars, you better believe that I am going to tell you when you're making a huge mistake.
My answer? Save both.[/QUOTE]
What a pat answer, the kind of simplistic thinking I've come to expect from you.
It's a hypothetical situation for a reason - doctors face these decisions every day and they have to decide to work on saving one person or another first.
In a similar way, we should be shifting more attention to the poverty-stricken, oppressed, and starving people of the world and spending less medicare (READ federal money AKA my tax dollars) on hopeless cases like Schaivo that are turned into religious crusades by a bunch of politically motivated, illogical fanatics.
.009% of the Schaivo support money could have saved a little girl. Instead approximately 11,000 times that amount of money was wasted on keeping a brain-dead woman's body alive, and the political support that was drummed up was not based on science (which had all but declared her dead) but the fact that by saving Schaivo you were somehow saving christianity (I really don't even know what the christian's point was).
Obviously we don't have enough money to save every dying person (even if we could eliminate the new Middle East crusades and getting those corporations their welfare checks on time). That's why I'd rather save 11,000 starving children instead of one brain-dead adult, and I think everyone would agree with that statement until we started filling in race and religion.
If the christians had voted to shoulder the cost on their own, then I would have less of a say - but when you spend MY tax dollars, you better believe that I am going to tell you when you're making a huge mistake.
hatim813
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[quote name='camoor']Settle down Beavis.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.[/QUOTE]
Ever seen I-robot? There was a lot of trouble due to the saving of will smith instead of saving a younger girl...now substitute in your variables and lets see what would happen.
If there's a car crash, and there is a 99% chance of saving a young child, and a 1% chance of saving a brain-dead old woman, which would you try to save first?
Oh - make the child brown and Hindu, and the old woman white and christian, and I have a suspicion that we will have different answers.[/QUOTE]
Ever seen I-robot? There was a lot of trouble due to the saving of will smith instead of saving a younger girl...now substitute in your variables and lets see what would happen.
Trancendental
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[quote name='hatim813']Ever seen I-robot? There was a lot of trouble due to the saving of will smith instead of saving a younger girl...now substitute in your variables and lets see what would happen.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you can really get into a utilitarian side-discussion with this - I will simply suggest that you read J.S. Mill's book "Utilitarianism", he explains the reasoning better then I could hope to by fielding random situations from movies.
Yes, you can really get into a utilitarian side-discussion with this - I will simply suggest that you read J.S. Mill's book "Utilitarianism", he explains the reasoning better then I could hope to by fielding random situations from movies.
alonzomourning23
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You forgot nationalism.
Trancendental
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[quote name='alonzomourning23']You forgot nationalism.[/QUOTE]
Yes I know - and I do think that there's something to saving your own citizens, who paid for that health care, before others - but when it gets so out-of-whack like it is today I think it points to the fact that the system needs a radical readjustment so that we make decisions based on science, compassion, and reason instead of emotive theocracy.
Yes I know - and I do think that there's something to saving your own citizens, who paid for that health care, before others - but when it gets so out-of-whack like it is today I think it points to the fact that the system needs a radical readjustment so that we make decisions based on science, compassion, and reason instead of emotive theocracy.
zionoverfire
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[quote name='camoor'] decisions based on science, compassion, and reason instead of emotive theocracy.[/QUOTE]
I think the result would still be the same. Any proposal can be made to sound reasonable and compassionate, just call it the clean air act or forest preservation bill and toss in a few minor concessions while you strip mine the land.
Science is already included with unaccredited studies that are bias and accredited studies that are to specific for real world applications.
I suggest what is nessasary is a greater focus on policits outside of the typical areas people define themselves: abortion, guns, taxes etc. and more of a focus on exactly where money goes and how great the benefit is.
I think the result would still be the same. Any proposal can be made to sound reasonable and compassionate, just call it the clean air act or forest preservation bill and toss in a few minor concessions while you strip mine the land.
Science is already included with unaccredited studies that are bias and accredited studies that are to specific for real world applications.
I suggest what is nessasary is a greater focus on policits outside of the typical areas people define themselves: abortion, guns, taxes etc. and more of a focus on exactly where money goes and how great the benefit is.
[quote name='camoor']decisions based on science, compassion, and reason instead of emotive theocracy.[/QUOTE]
And how is it a compassion based decision to take the life of someone like Schiavo (presumably) against the next of kin's wishes? Hypothetically, if the husband had wanted to keep her alive, would you mandate that because she was brain-dead, that she must be euthanized? Who judges the quality of her life versus the 11,000 hypothetical children?
Finally, remember, this girl didn't starve to death. She killed herself. The blame for her death doesn't fall on Schiavo, the system, the Indian Government, Medicare, it falls on her.
And how is it a compassion based decision to take the life of someone like Schiavo (presumably) against the next of kin's wishes? Hypothetically, if the husband had wanted to keep her alive, would you mandate that because she was brain-dead, that she must be euthanized? Who judges the quality of her life versus the 11,000 hypothetical children?
Finally, remember, this girl didn't starve to death. She killed herself. The blame for her death doesn't fall on Schiavo, the system, the Indian Government, Medicare, it falls on her.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Quillion']And how is it a compassion based decision to take the life of someone like Schiavo (presumably) against the next of kin's wishes? Hypothetically, if the husband had wanted to keep her alive, would you mandate that because she was brain-dead, that she must be euthanized? Who judges the quality of her life versus the 11,000 hypothetical children?
Finally, remember, this girl didn't starve to death. She killed herself. The blame for her death doesn't fall on Schiavo, the system, the Indian Government, Medicare, it falls on her.[/QUOTE]
The indian government should use the increasing wealth of the country to take better care of the poor, much like china has done, at least recently, with their increasing wealth. Whether this particular event would have been avoided is debatable, but overal the poor should be in a much better condition with the money that india has.
Finally, remember, this girl didn't starve to death. She killed herself. The blame for her death doesn't fall on Schiavo, the system, the Indian Government, Medicare, it falls on her.[/QUOTE]
The indian government should use the increasing wealth of the country to take better care of the poor, much like china has done, at least recently, with their increasing wealth. Whether this particular event would have been avoided is debatable, but overal the poor should be in a much better condition with the money that india has.
sblymnlcrymnl
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[quote name='evanft']I feel horrible for thinking this was Zelda-related.[/QUOTE]
That's what I thought too.
That's what I thought too.
Quackzilla
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[quote name='Quillion']And how is it a compassion based decision to take the life of someone like Schiavo (presumably) against the next of kin's wishes? [/QUOTE]
How can you take something a person doesn't even have in the first place?
How can you take something a person doesn't even have in the first place?
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The indian government should use the increasing wealth of the country to take better care of the poor, much like china has done, at least recently, with their increasing wealth. Whether this particular event would have been avoided is debatable, but overal the poor should be in a much better condition with the money that india has.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with you. India has done little to reduce the gap. The poor should be better off. I'm just calling bullshit on the analogy to Schiavo. Her case has nothing to do with this issue.
I have to agree with you. India has done little to reduce the gap. The poor should be better off. I'm just calling bullshit on the analogy to Schiavo. Her case has nothing to do with this issue.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Quillion']I have to agree with you. India has done little to reduce the gap. The poor should be better off. I'm just calling bullshit on the analogy to Schiavo. Her case has nothing to do with this issue.[/QUOTE]
Wow, finally some logical thinking. I couldn't believe that you couldn't see the difference between 11,000 children dying and the cessastion of bodily function for a brain-dead woman (I'd sure hate it if you ever had to lead a war, humanitarian effort or disaster recovery effort)
I was trying to point out the imbalance in thinking these days, most Americans do not realize the plight of third-world countries, the horrible devastation that AIDS and poverty have wreaked. Most people do not care that we advocate ineffective stratigies like abstinence-only sex education. However they sure care when a braindead christian white lady's body is about to be removed from a machine sustaining it, and they lavish attention on finding the killer of an attractive white blonde girl from Texas who goes missing in Bermuda.
So, from a media standpoint, the Schaivo case will get way way way more media attention then the death of a little girl who could not afford a 2 cent riceball. Most Americans will never see the people that are dying of starvation each day in Calcutta trash heaps, or even closer to us in Mexican border towns. America's almost complete preoccupation with the latest religious crusade to keep euthanasia illegal or make abortion illegal, while people in the rest of the world cannot afford a 2 cent rice ball, borders on the insane.
Wow, finally some logical thinking. I couldn't believe that you couldn't see the difference between 11,000 children dying and the cessastion of bodily function for a brain-dead woman (I'd sure hate it if you ever had to lead a war, humanitarian effort or disaster recovery effort)
I was trying to point out the imbalance in thinking these days, most Americans do not realize the plight of third-world countries, the horrible devastation that AIDS and poverty have wreaked. Most people do not care that we advocate ineffective stratigies like abstinence-only sex education. However they sure care when a braindead christian white lady's body is about to be removed from a machine sustaining it, and they lavish attention on finding the killer of an attractive white blonde girl from Texas who goes missing in Bermuda.
So, from a media standpoint, the Schaivo case will get way way way more media attention then the death of a little girl who could not afford a 2 cent riceball. Most Americans will never see the people that are dying of starvation each day in Calcutta trash heaps, or even closer to us in Mexican border towns. America's almost complete preoccupation with the latest religious crusade to keep euthanasia illegal or make abortion illegal, while people in the rest of the world cannot afford a 2 cent rice ball, borders on the insane.
MrFriday18
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[quote name='camoor']Wow, finally some logical thinking. I couldn't believe that you couldn't see the difference between 11,000 children dying and the cessastion of bodily function for a brain-dead woman (I'd sure hate it if you ever had to lead a war, humanitarian effort or disaster recovery effort)
I was trying to point out the imbalance in thinking these days, most Americans do not realize the plight of third-world countries, the horrible devastation that AIDS and poverty have wreaked. Most people do not care that we advocate ineffective stratigies like abstinence-only sex education. However they sure care when a braindead christian white lady's body is about to be removed from a machine sustaining it, and they lavish attention on finding the killer of an attractive white blonde girl from Texas who goes missing in Bermuda.
So, from a media standpoint, the Schaivo case will get way way way more media attention then the death of a little girl who could not afford a 2 cent riceball. Most Americans will never see the people that are dying of starvation each day in Calcutta trash heaps, or even closer to us in Mexican border towns. America's almost complete preoccupation with the latest religious crusade to keep euthanasia illegal or make abortion illegal, while people in the rest of the world cannot afford a 2 cent rice ball, borders on the insane.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree, the unfortunate thing is there will always be children starving.
I was trying to point out the imbalance in thinking these days, most Americans do not realize the plight of third-world countries, the horrible devastation that AIDS and poverty have wreaked. Most people do not care that we advocate ineffective stratigies like abstinence-only sex education. However they sure care when a braindead christian white lady's body is about to be removed from a machine sustaining it, and they lavish attention on finding the killer of an attractive white blonde girl from Texas who goes missing in Bermuda.
So, from a media standpoint, the Schaivo case will get way way way more media attention then the death of a little girl who could not afford a 2 cent riceball. Most Americans will never see the people that are dying of starvation each day in Calcutta trash heaps, or even closer to us in Mexican border towns. America's almost complete preoccupation with the latest religious crusade to keep euthanasia illegal or make abortion illegal, while people in the rest of the world cannot afford a 2 cent rice ball, borders on the insane.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree, the unfortunate thing is there will always be children starving.
A
Apossum
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That's horrible....one more good reason for microcredit.
bread's done