Is there a list of PS3 games that won't display in 1080i?

Javery

Javery

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I'm thinking about getting a PS3 but my TV only does 480p/i and 1080i. this isn't a problem for my Xbox360 or my cable box because they have internal scalers. I remember a while back that there was an issue of some games defaulting to 480p on the PS3 if they weren't specifically programmed with 1080i in mind. Is there a list somewhere? I do not want to get a PS3 if I can't play 1/2 the games on it.

Thanks.
 
I'd be interested in the list too - sometimes it sucks to be an early adopter.

I have noticed that a few older games go to 480p (Orange Box, Fight Night, Oblivion) but to be honest they still look good.

Most of the newer games I have seem to run in 1080i (COD4, GTA4,MGS4).
 
[quote name='natureboy46']I'd be interested in the list too - sometimes it sucks to be an early adopter.

I have noticed that a few older games go to 480p (Orange Box, Fight Night, Oblivion) but to be honest they still look good.

Most of the newer games I have seem to run in 1080i (COD4, GTA4,MGS4).[/QUOTE]There are still newer games that don't utilize it I believe. I know before the Burnout Paradise update on PS3, it would downscale to 480p.

The issue is that utilizing the horizontal scaler (PS3 does NOT have a vertical scaler) is that it comes at the cost of some memory being used (and one issue with devs trying to make a game multi-platform with 360 has to do with the lack of unified RAM, it's split). And Sony doesn't add it within a firmware update because they are trying to get the OS footprint reduced so they can implement features (they finally got it reduced enough to have in-game XMB). There will probably never be any kind of update to make all games run in 1080i for those who lack a TV that has 720p (this is somewhat a PS3 hardware issue), but as long as devs will be given more room as the memory footprint reduces, more devs may look into implementing it (It has somewhat gone up because of this).
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Why would this matter? If your TV supports 1080i or 480i/p, you're covered. What size TV are we talking about here?[/quote]


Some games don't support 1080p and 1080i.

And really, who would want to run anything at 480p/i. That's a bit gross.
 
[quote name='chasemurata']Some games don't support 1080p and 1080i.

[/quote]

Some games just aren't developed for 1080P. It's not really that huge of a deal on the older games.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Why would this matter? If your TV supports 1080i or 480i/p, you're covered. What size TV are we talking about here?[/quote]

Because I want to actually play games in high def on my high def TV. I have a 42" plasma and everything looks beautiful on it in 1080i. There's no way I'm buying a PS3 to play games in 480p.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Some games just aren't developed for 1080P. It's not really that huge of a deal on the older games.[/quote]

It's definitely a huge deal to people with TVs that only support 1080i and 480i/p. Sony really dropped the ball on this one. I like how their answer was to buy a new TV when at the time, they had relatively new TVs of their own out that only supported those resolutions.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Because I want to actually play games in high def on my high def TV. I have a 42" plasma and everything looks beautiful on it in 1080i. There's no way I'm buying a PS3 to play games in 480p.[/quote]

My suggestion would be to run all of your equipment through a receiver and have it do some of the processing for you. I currently run a Denon 3808CI and it's able to upscale pretty much any signal. This isn't an issue for the HDMI sources I have, since the receiver can pass that signal straight through to both of my 1080P displays.

The list provided states games that run in 1080p/i. It does a poor job of breaking down exactly which ones do not support 1080p and which ones do not support 1080i. I have several games on this list and through testing of my own, I can verify that a good number of them in fact do support 1080i.

It's not like you won't be able to play the games. They just won't run in the highest resolution possible.

[quote name='distgfx']It's definitely a huge deal to people with TVs that only support 1080i and 480i/p. Sony really dropped the ball on this one. I like how their answer was to buy a new TV when at the time, they had relatively new TVs of their own out that only supported those resolutions.[/quote]

You mean people who bought TV's that are not true HD? It's a pity that they are in this situation, but such is the case with any piece of technology. Things become obsolete quickly. Standards change. If anything, be mad at your TV manufacturer for not supporting at least 720P.

Oh, and for the record. There are quite a few games that don't support 1080P. Are you going to be mad at Sony there too? They didn't make the decision to not support 1080P. The developer did.
 
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[quote name='mtxbass1']You mean people who bought TV's that are not true HD? It's a pity that they are in this situation, but such is the case with any piece of technology. Things become obsolete quickly. Standards change. If anything, be mad at your TV manufacturer for not supporting at least 720P.

Oh, and for the record. There are quite a few games that don't support 1080P. Are you going to be mad at Sony there too? They didn't make the decision to not support 1080P. The developer did.[/quote]

Define "True HD" because last I checked, that was just a marketing gimmick that sony came up with to say how much more better 1080p was. Last I checked, 1080i is indeed an HD resolution no matter how you look at it. Sony themselves were still making TVs that didn't support 720p at the time and still screwed over their consumer base with the PS3's lack of a proper scaler. Standards may change, but at the time, there was no such thing as a 1080p on the consumer market and many still didn't support 720p. They screwed us over way back then. If you had complained about buying a non-720p recently, then yes, you shouldn't of probably bought it. Back then though, they had no damned excuse and saying "Buy a new TV" isn't a valid answer to this. They fucked up.
 
[quote name='distgfx']Define "True HD" because last I checked, that was just a marketing gimmick that sony came up with to say how much more better 1080p was. Last I checked, 1080i is indeed an HD resolution no matter how you look at it. Sony themselves were still making TVs that didn't support 720p at the time and still screwed over their consumer base with the PS3's lack of a proper scaler. Standards may change, but at the time, there was no such thing as a 1080p on the consumer market and many still didn't support 720p. They screwed us over way back then. If you had complained about buying a non-720p recently, then yes, you shouldn't of probably bought it. Back then though, they had no damned excuse and saying "Buy a new TV" isn't a valid answer to this. They fucked up.[/quote]

Per Wikipedia.

Video Format Supported Native Resolution (W×H) Pixels (Advertised Megapixels) Aspect Ratio (X:Y) Description

1080i
1920×1080 1280×1080 1,382,400 (1.4) 32:27
(Approx 16:9) 3:2 Non-standardized "HD Ready", TV. Used on HDTV Plasma display with non-square pixels.

1080p
1920×1080 1920×1080 2,073,600 (2.1) 16:9 1:1

A standardized HDTV displays as (HD Ready 1080p) TV, that used on LCD HDTV displays. Used for 1125-line video, as defined in SMPTE 274M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.709.


As far as your other issue. While I agree with you 100% that at the time, Sony's answer is weak at best, the fundamental fact that technology improves over time cannot be ignored. People have older televisions, but look how they have progressed even over the past 2 years since the PS3 came out. Is it an excuse? No. However, being shocked that your TV you bought a few years ago doesn't work with a piece of technology as it should, should be no surprise.

Is Sony to blame for not including an internal scaler? Perhaps. Then again, for certain people with newer TV's, it's a non-issue. It's certainly not an issue to anyone buying a TV nowadays. It's a cost cutting move by them.

Sony is certainly not to blame however for specific games not supporting specific resolutions. This is completely up to the game developer to implement.

To the OP. You should have no problems playing any of the games. It's a matter of what resolution you'll be playing them at.

edit: chart cleanup. Way to go copy and paste.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1'] However, being shocked that your TV you bought a few years ago doesn't work with a piece of technology as it should, should be no surprise.[/quote]

I completely disagree since EVERYTHING else works just fine. If I have an HDTV I definitely expect it to be 100% compatible with an HD console.

I realize I can run all the games but that's not the point (and it's not something I will even consider).
 
[quote name='javeryh']I completely disagree since EVERYTHING else works just fine. If I have an HDTV I definitely expect it to be 100% compatible with an HD console.

I realize I can run all the games but that's not the point (and it's not something I will even consider).[/quote]

Everything else works "fine" due to internal upscalers. You won't be getting that in a PS3 any time soon (and you've known this for a long time). I remember you asking something like this back when you bought your Sony HDTV a few years ago. The only solution you have is to either not purchase the system, purchase a new tv, or to purchase another device (such as a receiver) that upscales for you.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Per Wikipedia.

Video Format Supported Native Resolution (W×H) Pixels (Advertised Megapixels) Aspect Ratio (X:Y) Description

1080i
1920×1080 1280×1080 1,382,400 (1.4) 32:27
(Approx 16:9) 3:2 Non-standardized "HD Ready", TV. Used on HDTV Plasma display with non-square pixels.

1080p
1920×1080 1920×1080 2,073,600 (2.1) 16:9 1:1

A standardized HDTV displays as (HD Ready 1080p) TV, that used on LCD HDTV displays. Used for 1125-line video, as defined in SMPTE 274M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.709.


As far as your other issue. While I agree with you 100% that at the time, Sony's answer is weak at best, the fundamental fact that technology improves over time cannot be ignored. People have older televisions, but look how they have progressed even over the past 2 years since the PS3 came out. Is it an excuse? No. However, being shocked that your TV you bought a few years ago doesn't work with a piece of technology as it should, should be no surprise.

Is Sony to blame for not including an internal scaler? Perhaps. Then again, for certain people with newer TV's, it's a non-issue. It's certainly not an issue to anyone buying a TV nowadays. It's a cost cutting move by them.

Sony is certainly not to blame however for specific games not supporting specific resolutions. This is completely up to the game developer to implement.

To the OP. You should have no problems playing any of the games. It's a matter of what resolution you'll be playing them at.

edit: chart cleanup. Way to go copy and paste.[/quote]

Right off of wikipedia as well:

1080i is the shorthand name of a format of High-definition video modes.

Sweet, short and to the point.

Though I'm not talking about the present, I'm referring to the past. Back when Sony made these statements, there were still plenty of 1080i only TVs out on the market and Sony basically said "Take it up the ass or buy a new TV." Well thing is, I could of easily bought a new TV back then. Hell, I could of bought one of their own and it could still be 1080i only! Every other HD Device I know of (360, receiver, etc.) can all scale to any resolution easily. Sony just made a stupid move and tried to blame it on your TV when it was their fuck up. These days, yea, it wouldn't be smart to buy a 1080i only TV if you can even find one. Back then though, many HD channels were only broadcasted in 1080i at best, I only recall sports channels doing 720p. These days though, things are indeed different but back then when all this was going on, it was utter crap.

[quote name='javeryh']I completely disagree since EVERYTHING else works just fine. If I have an HDTV I definitely expect it to be 100% compatible with an HD console.

I realize I can run all the games but that's not the point (and it's not something I will even consider).[/quote]

Pretty much. I remember when I was in your situation, I refused to buy a PS3 until Sony made a statement about making a fix. I went out to buy a PS3, rented games that weren't scaled to 1080i and then Sony came out and said "Screw you, buy a new TV, thanks for the money!"
 
[quote name='distgfx']Right off of wikipedia as well:

1080i is the shorthand name of a format of High-definition video modes.

Sweet, short and to the point.

Though I'm not talking about the present, I'm referring to the past. Back when Sony made these statements, there were still plenty of 1080i only TVs out on the market and Sony basically said "Take it up the ass or buy a new TV." Well thing is, I could of easily bought a new TV back then. Hell, I could of bought one of their own and it could still be 1080i only! Every other HD Device I know of (360, receiver, etc.) can all scale to any resolution easily. Sony just made a stupid move and tried to blame it on your TV when it was their fuck up. These days, yea, it wouldn't be smart to buy a 1080i only TV if you can even find one. Back then though, many HD channels were only broadcasted in 1080i at best, I only recall sports channels doing 720p. These days though, things are indeed different but back then when all this was going on, it was utter crap.
[/quote]

You're right. I recall hearing stations like ESPN preferring 720p over 1080i because a progressive signal handles fast motions better than an interlaced one, even at a lower resolution. That was the justification, anyway, aside from the extra cost and bandwidth of a higher resolution.

The fact that network stations were using 720p as a broadcasting standard and TVs were being made that either couldn't support the signal, or upscale it, is absurd. As a TV manufacturer that's also sinking a ton of money into a console (whose failure could seriously jeopardize the rest of the business), you'd think they'd be more savvy on these kinds of issues. I feel like they just got way too ambitious with the PS3 and it made them overlook little things like this, which no amount of extra features, functions, or blu-ray goodness will make up for (see OP's complete lack of interest in buying one now).

That, or they need standards for game devs to support more resolutions. Which brings us back to the RAM issue. Which brings us back to poor planning/over-ambition. A complex processor like the Cell can't do half of what it's capable with only 256MB of RAM.

Ugh. I'm tired of all these complicated, overlapping issues. I'm gonna go play MGS2 some more ;)
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Everything else works "fine" due to internal upscalers. You won't be getting that in a PS3 any time soon (and you've known this for a long time). I remember you asking something like this back when you bought your Sony HDTV a few years ago. The only solution you have is to either not purchase the system, purchase a new tv, or to purchase another device (such as a receiver) that upscales for you.[/quote]

I bought my Panasonic HDTV in January of 2004 - almost 3 full years before the PS3 came out. I was complaining about this issue back when the PS3 launched but I would have though Sony would have done something about it by now.

Running an HDMI cable through my receiver might be an option - I'm not sure if my Harmon Kardon has one though. How would that work? PS3 to receiver to TV? I definitely know my TV has an HDMI port (probably 1.0 though since it is fairly old). I'm just annoyed at the whole situation.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I bought my Panasonic HDTV in January of 2004 - almost 3 full years before the PS3 came out. I was complaining about this issue back when the PS3 launched but I would have though Sony would have done something about it by now.

Running an HDMI cable through my receiver might be an option - I'm not sure if my Harmon Kardon has one though. How would that work? PS3 to receiver to TV? I definitely know my TV has an HDMI port (probably 1.0 though since it is fairly old). I'm just annoyed at the whole situation.[/quote]

Ahh, my bad. I thought I remembered you having a Sony TV.

For my particular setup, I run all sources into my receiver. Every component, composite, hdmi, etc. The receiver then outputs everything over HDMI to my projector and to my television. Depending on your receiver, you can possibly configure certain things to be upscaled, or certain things to be pass through.

Does your HK support any type of video processing?
 
Well, I am finally the proud owner of a PS3. My parents bought me one for Christmas and now I need to get some games for it. I'm already annoyed that I can't really play Hot Shots Golf which would be an automatic purchase. I'm planning to hook it up tonight and I need to get a game or two. I'm thinking about Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank since they both support 1080i and both are supposed to be pretty good.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Javy, try out the demos. I have a feeling that many more games are going to work than you expect.[/quote]

I definitely will but I'm just going off of the list in the link posted above (it seems "official").

Also, can I buy an inexpensive receiver [less than $400] and have the 720p video signal from the PS3 upscaled to 1080i to display on my TV? If so, any recommendations?
 
Honestly, I'm not sure how well a low-end receiver would work for upscaling video through the HDMI port to your TV. I have an Onkyo TX-SR605, runs about 350 now I think. When I hooked up my wii through it to upconvert the video through to the HDMI connection, it looked pretty bad. I was better off hooking up my Wii directly to the TV. It's nice and all, to have all the connections forced through just the HDMI cable.. but I'd rather have a huge tangle of cords and a map to guide me through what's connected where then look at an oversaturated picture that shares the same carefully set video settings.

imo, you're better off saving up that money for a newer tv set then spending money on a receiver to try and upconvert.

and thanks distgfx for posting that link, had no idea how many games don't support 1080i/p, I disabled 720p and look at that.. Resistance 2 doesn't hurt my eyes anymore, before I think the game was forced to 720p and everytime I moved around in the game all the textures did this weird blurry thing.. I've noticed it with a few other PS3 games too.
 
I bought a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR606 for about $275 (after shipping and tax) from shoponkyo.com

I haven't tested the receivers upscaling since I have a new tv that handles all resolutions but most of the reviews say it upscales better than the 605 and looks good doing it.

Edit: Shoponkyo aren't selling any 606s at the moment but have the 506 refurbished for $199. Not sure what the differences are between the 506 and 606 with regards to upscaling.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Ahh, my bad. I thought I remembered you having a Sony TV. [/QUOTE]

You may have been remembering me - back when the PS3 launched I made a point (in the same threads javeryh was posting in) of having a SONY HDTV that didn't support 720p - says so right in the manual ;). However, mine is even older than javeryh's. I got it in Oct 2003. As a result I sold my preordered launch system (at a nice profit to boot right before the market for them tanked) and just picked one up in Nov.

This Christmas I decided to go forward with the plan of setting up a home theater room in the extra room we have in the house that was intended for that WAY back when we bought it in 2003. So I got a 67" Samsung DLP TV, a new couch, and a PS3 ;). Watching blu-rays is incredible and the PS3 games look great too. However, I noticed that nearly every game I play sets the resoution to 720p (which on the new TV is not an issue). I am very disappointed to see Little Big Planet do that in particular. Admittedly I haven't played too many games, but the only one I've seen do 1080p is PixelJunk Eden. So, anyway, javeryh, I would recommend downloading that.

If there's anything else you want me to check I'll run it through mine as it reports the resolution each time a game starts up. I have a lot of games, especially the older ones, because of the Blockbuster B1G1 sale.

I still need to get a decent sound system. Right now I'm using a Spherex Xbox surround sound system I got at Costco 2 years ago for $99. It isn't bad for the price, that's for sure. I can wait a bit for a real setup - spent too much on the other stuff recently. I also need a nice TV stand - right now we have the TV on an old coffee table we were going to toss.

Anyway, I LOVE sitting up there and playing PS3 games though. I don't think I've turned on the Xbox once since Christmas because of it! I probably ought to move the Xbox up there but I wanted to keep it downstairs so one of the kids can play Guitar Hero/Rock Band down there while the other is playing LBP upstairs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit - took a look at the link earlier in the thread and noticed that one of the ones coming through at 720p for me, may in fact support 1080i though you have to disable 720p, apparently, to do so? The game is Prince of Persia. It is definitely not practical for me to do so since I imagine disabling 720p will force games like LBP into 480p :cold:.

Just to provide a little summary for those not familiar with the problem, I have gotten several games cheap recently (Gamestop B2G1, Blockbuster B1G1 sale, Sears and CC clearance, etc).

Of those, all of the following would NOT be playable (because they would be 480p) on my original HDTV (or Javeryh's):
Armored Core 4
Folklore
Genji
Guitar Hero Aerosmith
Hot Shots Golf
Little Big Planet (my main reason for getting a PS3!)
Motorstorm
Untold Legends

And several that I'd consider getting but would have had to pass on: Armored Core for Answer, Eternal Sonata, Guitar Hero WT, Star Wars Force Unleashed, Tomb Raider Underworld (which looks phenomenal on my 360 in 1080i), Lost Planet, Oblivion

On the plus side, the following that I snagged DO support 1080i/1080p:

Disgaea 3
Full Auto 2 ($4.97 at Sears ;))
Grand Theft Auto IV
Lair
Pirates of the Caribbean At Worlds End
Prince of Persia (apparently, according to that link though it comes up 720p for me)
Ratchet & Clank Tools of Destruction
Uncharted

The two big disappointments on the non-supporting list are LBP and Hot Shots Golf which are two of the main games I wanted when I decided to get a PS3. Hell, I even bought LBP 2 months before I got the TV or PS3! The rest of those games, admittedly, I could probably live without. But LBP has been played 4-5 hours per day in my house since Christmas day (me and the 3 older kids all like it) - would have been a disaster on the old TV ;).

So in the end I guess I did follow Sony's smart-ass advice and buy a new TV with which to fully enjoy my PS3. There are a couple of caveats of course. I did this 2 years after the PS3 launch and after selling my original one - ended up getting one with more storage for cheaper. AND I didn't buy a Sony brand HDTV which I vowed never to do again after those statements they made.
 
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[quote name='io']
Of those, all of the following would NOT be playable (because they would be 480p) on my original HDTV (or Javeryh's):
Armored Core 4
Folklore
Genji
Guitar Hero Aerosmith
Hot Shots Golf
Little Big Planet (my main reason for getting a PS3!)
Motorstorm
Untold Legends
[/QUOTE]
Why would those games not be playable on your old Sony? I have a Sony from 2003 and it supports 480i/p and 1080i. Hell, it will even accept a 720p signal but downscale it to 480p. By "NOT be playable" do you mean not playable at 720p resolution? You make it sound like the games won't display at all.
 
[quote name='redline']Why would those games not be playable on your old Sony? I have a Sony from 2003 and it supports 480i/p and 1080i. Hell, it will even accept a 720p signal but downscale it to 480p. By "NOT be playable" do you mean not playable at 720p resolution? You make it sound like the games won't display at all.[/QUOTE]

They're just resolution whores!
 ;)
 
[quote name='redline']Why would those games not be playable on your old Sony? I have a Sony from 2003 and it supports 480i/p and 1080i. Hell, it will even accept a 720p signal but downscale it to 480p. By "NOT be playable" do you mean not playable at 720p resolution? You make it sound like the games won't display at all.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I wouldn't even begin to play an HD game at 480p - I don't see the point. That's not to say it can't be enjoyed that way - but if I can get the same game on the system (360) that does output HD in that case why would I choose the PS3 version? Or at the very least I'd avoid those games for ones that do support 1080i until I got a TV/receiver to handle it.

It's not so much being a graphics whore - after all I think there's plenty of great looking Wii games and I still have loads of PS2 games to play. But if the capability is there and I'm not seeing it, then I don't see the point. Does that make any sense? I dunno - it's nearly 7am and I need to get to bed after staring at code the last 4 hours. Maybe I need a higher-res monitor ;).
 
[quote name='Swingman']I bought a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR606 for about $275 (after shipping and tax) from shoponkyo.com

I haven't tested the receivers upscaling since I have a new tv that handles all resolutions but most of the reviews say it upscales better than the 605 and looks good doing it.

Edit: Shoponkyo aren't selling any 606s at the moment but have the 506 refurbished for $199. Not sure what the differences are between the 506 and 606 with regards to upscaling.[/quote]

Thank - I'm going to check those out. I have a Harmon-Kardon that I paid about $600 for in 2004 and it sounds GREAT but doesn't do any upscaling.

[quote name='redline']Why would those games not be playable on your old Sony? I have a Sony from 2003 and it supports 480i/p and 1080i. Hell, it will even accept a 720p signal but downscale it to 480p. By "NOT be playable" do you mean not playable at 720p resolution? You make it sound like the games won't display at all.[/quote]

480p = "not playable" in my eyes for games on the PS3 or 360. This is supposed to be HD gaming and it's what you pay all this money for. Hot Shots Golf is my main reason wanting a PS3!!! Maybe upscaling to 1080i through a receiver is the answer...
 
OK, I see what you're saying. I guess for me it's not a big issue because with the first Xbox I was used to playing 720p games at 480p anyways. Eventually I'll get a new TV, wife wants a 65" after seeing a few when we were at Best Buy this weekend. It's a lot easier to buy something like that if the wife wants it too. :)
 
[quote name='redline']OK, I see what you're saying. I guess for me it's not a big issue because with the first Xbox I was used to playing 720p games at 480p anyways. Eventually I'll get a new TV, wife wants a 65" after seeing a few when we were at Best Buy this weekend. It's a lot easier to buy something like that if the wife wants it too. :)[/quote]

yeah, my wife keeps telling me no new TV for "at least" 10 years which I think is insane. She also couldn't tell the difference between 480p and 1080i when I was flipping back and forth - she just doesn't care.

I'm normally not a graphics whore but in this instance I think it is justified to be annoyed - everything else that is branded as HD works just fine on my TV (the 360 and my cable box primarily). I like HSG but I might as well just play HSG4 on my PS2 since the resolution would look pretty much the same.

Also, io - thanks for posting that info. I'm also bummed about no LBP. That and Heavenly Sword are pissing me off as well. I guess I'll start with Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted and maybe MGS4 (although long cut scenes are painful for me).
 
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