Jim Cramer

Koggit

Koggit

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I'm sure most of you saw the Daily Show showdown.. but it seems not so many (myself included, until today) have seen the most damning of evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVmlxhk-tU

It's the source of the clips Jon played, and fucking disgusting.

After hearing him say flat out (at 6:16) "and get it on CNBC, that's also very important" I really just want to punch something, it's infuriating. Can't send the SOB to jail where he belongs because he can so easily weasel out of accountability... I absolutely hate that rotten SOBs like this are stealing our money. They're stealing your money and they're devaluing any publically traded company you might work at. fuck 'em. I really, really wish we could just nail these bastards...

Until saying this clip, I didn't feel this way... but Jim Cramer's such a rotten piece of shit. I sort of felt bad for him when watching the Daily Show, but now I realize Jon was nowhere near hard enough. fucking douchebag...
 
I lost a lot of respect for Jim Cramer this past week.

Still, I don't know why people took Jim Cramer so seriously in the past. I think he is the Jon Stewart of CNBC. He makes the stock market interesting and gives some good advice, but he shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
Yeah, it was pretty awesome to see him get nailed like that on the Daily Show. It was pretty annoying to see other people on MSNBC and CNN defend Cramer by saying "it's hard to forecast 5-10 years." The morons clearly didn't get the point of why Jon was so pissed at CNBC and Jim Cramer.
 
[quote name='ananag112']I lost a lot of respect for Jim Cramer this past week.

Still, I don't know why people took Jim Cramer so seriously in the past. I think he is the Jon Stewart of CNBC. He makes the stock market interesting and gives some good advice, but he shouldn't be taken seriously.[/QUOTE]

Dude.. you don't get it at all. Did you watch the above video? I do not think you did.

He's specifically, bluntly talking about how CNBC is just a malleable arm for stock market manipulation. He's talking about (and advising other hedge fund managers to follow suit) how the best way to make easy money is to short stocks and control their prices by spreading false rumors and utilizing the financial media so that individual, long-term advisers give you money. He flat-out said that if you want to drive a stock's price up, you've got to "get it on CNBC" (a buy advisory, direct quote) so that the "morons" (another direct quote) drive up the price of the stock for you.

This is a decent summary from Wikipedia, but really, every American owes it to themself to watch the above video in full.

Market Manipulation: TheStreet.com Interview

In March 2007, a December 2006 interview from TheStreet.com's "Wall Street Confidential" webcast stirred controversy after it appeared on YouTube.com.[11] In the video, Cramer described activities used by hedge fund managers to manipulate stock prices - some of debatable legality and others flatly illegal. He described how he could push stocks higher or lower with as little as $5 million in capital when he was running his hedge fund. Cramer said, "A lot of times when I was short, I would create a level of activity beforehand that would drive the futures." He also encouraged hedge funds to engage in this type of activity because it is "a very quick way to make money". Cramer claimed that everything he did was legal, but that illegal activity is common in the hedge fund industry. He also stated that some hedge fund managers spread false rumors to drive a stock down: "What's important when you are in that hedge-fund mode is to not do anything remotely truthful because the truth is so against your view, that it's important to create a new truth, to develop a fiction."[12] Cramer described a variety of tactics that hedge fund managers use to affect a stock's price. Cramer said that one strategy to keep a stock price down is to spread false rumors to reporters he described as "the Pisanis of the world". The comment was a reference to CNBC correspondent Bob Pisani, who reports from the trading floor of the New York Stock Exchange. "You have to use these guys," said Cramer. He also discussed giving information to "the bozo reporter from The Wall Street Journal" to get an article published.[13][14] Cramer said this practice, although condemned illegal, is easy to do "because the SEC doesn't understand it."[15] During the interview Cramer referred to himself as a "banking class hero."[16]
Click to expand...
Now, he has a show on CNBC giving people advice on what to buy.. he runs the biggest website (TheStreet) advising people what to buy.. and you're defending his show. He does not give you good advice, he gives you advice that artificially inflates his stock so that his hedge fund does well. There's no way in hell you watched the video, if you're gonna defend him.. he's criminal scum, and his show is just an tool of manipulation.


That was the whole point of this thread. A lot of people (myself included) still did not understand what was going on after the Daily Show interview. We took away the wrong message, because Jon focused on the wrong message. Jim Cramer and people like him are using the financial news media to distort the market to their favor: they short sell and guarantee profit by spreading rumors and controlling the buy advisories (which you defend as good advice..)

I'm trying my hardest to stay away from resorting to personal attacks but damn man, come the fuck on
 
Maybe I'm not getting it either because I'm sitting here saying, "So?" The majority of the stock market and all that is people trying to make money off others by spreading conjecture and bullshit forecasts. The problem is that very few things (even our money for fuck's sake) have little to no intrinsic value. That means the people who control it, also control what it's worth.

It's about accountability too. You don't base your financial decisions on what the financial version of the Micro Machines guy says. His show is incredibly hokey and if anyone is following him then they might as well buy EVERY exercise machine on TV too because it supposedly works.
 
I don't know why people are taking it out on him. He's just describing what the rich scumbags of the world do to make money. They all do it, but it's only the stupid ones that get caught. And if he did do something illegal, he probably would've been caught by now. Or at the very least somebody would've come out of the woodwork
 
It's that Jon focused on the wrong issue. The point he made to viewers (myself included) and the point the media has focused on since has been "CNBC isn't holding scumbags accountable." The real story is "CNBC is a manipulation arm of the scumbags." Rewatching the Daily Show interview, Jon hit on this a little bit by saying "which side is CNBC on?" -- the real issue isn't so much CNBC as it is the crooks behind the charade, not just the station but market manipulation in general, to which Cramer admits in the above video. I'm disappointed that Jon let him go without pointing that out.

I can't tell whether or not you're missing the point, but I think you are, considering your "don't base your financial decisions on what the financial version of the Micro Machines guy says" comment. Do you understand what he's doing? Do you understand that when he (and people like him) rig the deck, you always lose? Avoiding his advice doesn't prevent you from experiencing the damage he causes. Even staying out of the market entirely wouldn't save you.



I guess, to break it down, there are two basic points. (1) what he's doing and (2) its effect.

(1) These people are manipulating the market in a number of sleazy ways. They're short selling and using their immense resources ($5 million in capital is chump change, evidently) to get their message out. Comments like he made about Pisani and the Wall Street Journal pretty directly state they're buying articles and media coverage. He also admits to spreading false rumors to the media about the companies, and "get it on CNBC" -- the buy/sell advisories are just a small part of it, though keep in mind he made these comments after Mad Money began airing.

An example, using Apple as an obvious choice since that's what he directly discussed, it's as if Apple were trading for $100 a share, I told you I'd sell you 1,000,000 shares for $98 a share, then spread stories in the media (including my own CNBC show) that people should sell, spread rumors to Engadget, Gizmodo that Apple was having some sort of problems, bought stories in the WSJ saying Apple's management has gone to crap, etc, all causing the price of the stock to drop, then bought at $90 a share, I just made $8,000,000.

(2) Where'd that money come from? Everyone. It doesn't matter what you've invested in, or if you've invested at all. That $8,000,000 is essentially a premium paid on the shares with no tangible valuable to the investor -- it harms the market, it harms our economy. It especially hurts the long-term investors who may have Apple stock, but it hurts everyone a little bit, and it doesn't matter whether or not you took his "sell! sell! sell!" bullshit advice at $90, their wealth isn't materializing out of thin air, it negatively impacts the market and that's gonna hurt everyone regardless of their involvement.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't know why people are taking it out on him. He's just describing what the rich scumbags of the world do to make money. They all do it, but it's only the stupid ones that get caught. And if he did do something illegal, he probably would've been caught by now. Or at the very least somebody would've come out of the woodwork[/QUOTE]

*sigh*

seriously, if you guys are this fucking dumb I'm done with this bullshit, it's just frustrating me much more to see such fucking blind acceptance of this bullshit

HE fuckING ADMITS IT IN THE VIDEO

HE FLAT OUT ADMITS IT

HE SAYS IT'S FUN AND EASY MONEY

he HAS been investigated by the SEC but like every other person in his position he weasels out of it, it's very difficult to have rock solid proof of something like that.

fuck it I'm done, fuck you guys, enjoy being unwittingly raped by these scumbags, I guess when you're that blind you have it coming
 
The entire reason Jon targeted him so harshly right now was because Cramer, recently, has been critical of Obama - and.... well, it's Jon Stewart.

imo, of course.
 
[quote name='Koggit']*sigh*[/quote]

Well then, if he didn't get caught he's not a criminal.

Scumbag perhaps, but can you name me one politician or news journalist or wall street insider who isn't?
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']You had respect for Jim Cramer?[/QUOTE]

Well, somewhat. I watched his show because it was entertaining. I gained a little bit of perspective on how hedge fund people think and I learned some basic skills on how to pick stocks.

I always knew though that he was manipulating stocks to some degree. Stocks he talked about usually had a significant increase in trade the day after. He himself admitted it a few times on his show. CNBC and other financial news networks have an influence on the market. Its nothing new and I guess people turned a blind eye to it when people were making money and didn't care. Its hard for the SEC to do anything in most cases, but when Cramer admits it so candidly, I would hope the SEC looks into this and takes proper action.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']The entire reason Jon targeted him so harshly right now was because Cramer, recently, has been critical of Obama - and.... well, it's Jon Stewart.

imo, of course.[/quote]
I doubt it. I figure he went up against Cramer simply because Cramer was willing to go up against him.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']I doubt it. I figure he went up against Cramer simply because Cramer was willing to go up against him.[/quote]

Perhaps, but the timing of the criticisms and the way the interview was handled does raise an eyebrow.
 
[quote name='Koggit']*sigh*

seriously, if you guys are this fucking dumb I'm done with this bullshit, it's just frustrating me much more to see such fucking blind acceptance of this bullshit[/quote]

Calm down. Calm down.

Just take a minute, read a few of KingBroly's blog posts or his incessant whining in the gaming threads, and then learn to dutifully ignore him. Not saying I'm much better. Just saying.
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']Calm down. Calm down.

Just take a minute, read a few of KingBroly's blog posts or his incessant whining in the gaming threads, and then learn to dutifully ignore him. Not saying I'm much better. Just saying.[/quote]

My blog posts are not anything special. But then again, blogs aren't meant to be taken seriously by anyone.
 
The problem with focusing so much on Jim Cramer is that someone might think he's the only one of his kind.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']I doubt it. I figure he went up against Cramer simply because Cramer was willing to go up against him.[/QUOTE]

Jon was bashing him before Cramer was dumb enough to come on his show. That's why Cramer came on his show.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Jon was bashing him before Cramer was dumb enough to come on his show. That's why Cramer came on his show.[/quote]
*checks old episodes*
Yeah, it's like I thought. Jon attacks CNBC, which included Cramer alongside Santelli and the others.

Cramer responds.

Jon reresponds.

It keeps going like that to what we all saw. Cramer was targeted because he was an outspoken defender.

EDIT: Starts on March 4th with Stewart ripping into Santelli. Cramer was barely even mentioned in that episode.
 
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[quote name='rickonker']The problem with focusing so much on Jim Cramer is that someone might think he's the only one of his kind.[/quote]

I agree.
 
[quote name='ananag112']Well, somewhat. I watched his show because it was entertaining. I gained a little bit of perspective on how hedge fund people think and I learned some basic skills on how to pick stocks. [/QUOTE]

The thing is I have no idea how people find his show entertaining. I watched it once because it was on at the gym and it just seemed stressful to me. He's constantly yelling and screaming over anything and everything often for no reason. It just seemed like lunacy that anyone could relax while watching his show. I don't watch TV to be stressed out.

[quote name='rickonker']The problem with focusing so much on Jim Cramer is that someone might think he's the only one of his kind.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but unfortunately for him he was the only one dumb enough to go onto The Daily Show.
 
Christians always make for the best hypocrites, but disgraced robber barons are a closer second.

I'm enjoying this show, I hope it keeps rolling. Let's not stop at Madoff, let's expose all of these assholes!
 
Funny thing is...I read "Personal Finance for Dummies" by Eric Tyson and he warned not to trust Jim Cramer (as well as other media finance types); He pointed out some issues with Jim Cramer's past in one paragraph. Also there is the common sense fact that no one can predict the future.

In case you are wondering, its on page 178 on the 5th edition (copyright 2006)
 
[quote name='camoor']Christians always make for the best hypocrites, but disgraced robber barons are a closer second.

I'm enjoying this show, I hope it keeps rolling. Let's not stop at Madoff, let's expose all of these assholes![/quote]

When the hell did religion become a part of this discussion? I must've missed where it was proven that one religion provides more liars on percentage than others.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']When the hell did religion become a part of this discussion? I must've missed where it was proven that one religion provides more liars on percentage than others.[/QUOTE]

There are some people in this forum whom religion is always part of the discussion. They literally thing dumb= religious and smart = non-religious and apply everything they think is dumb and smart in the world to it.
 
A more charitable interpretation would be that he was simply stating that that was his favourite kind of hypocrite, not that it was necessarily more common.
 
Yeah, I was just saying that I get the most entertainment out of the Ted Haggart and Bill Benett type of hypocrite.

While Jim Cramer has repeatedly lied to his audience and pretended to give them advice while using them as dupes, he is a self-avowed market manipulator and his behavior is hardly surprising to someone who was paying attention. CEOs raiding corporate budgets, businessmen running huge ponzi schemes, politicians lying and cheating - these always make for great entertainment but for hypocrites Christians are the best, their self-avowed moral crusaders somehow always manage to hoist themselves up on their own petard.
 
[quote name='Koggit']It's that Jon focused on the wrong issue. The point he made to viewers (myself included) and the point the media has focused on since has been "CNBC isn't holding scumbags accountable." The real story is "CNBC is a manipulation arm of the scumbags." Rewatching the Daily Show interview, Jon hit on this a little bit by saying "which side is CNBC on?" -- the real issue isn't so much CNBC as it is the crooks behind the charade, not just the station but market manipulation in general, to which Cramer admits in the above video. I'm disappointed that Jon let him go without pointing that out.

I can't tell whether or not you're missing the point, but I think you are, considering your "don't base your financial decisions on what the financial version of the Micro Machines guy says" comment. Do you understand what he's doing? Do you understand that when he (and people like him) rig the deck, you always lose? Avoiding his advice doesn't prevent you from experiencing the damage he causes. Even staying out of the market entirely wouldn't save you.



I guess, to break it down, there are two basic points. (1) what he's doing and (2) its effect.

(1) These people are manipulating the market in a number of sleazy ways. They're short selling and using their immense resources ($5 million in capital is chump change, evidently) to get their message out. Comments like he made about Pisani and the Wall Street Journal pretty directly state they're buying articles and media coverage. He also admits to spreading false rumors to the media about the companies, and "get it on CNBC" -- the buy/sell advisories are just a small part of it, though keep in mind he made these comments after Mad Money began airing.

An example, using Apple as an obvious choice since that's what he directly discussed, it's as if Apple were trading for $100 a share, I told you I'd sell you 1,000,000 shares for $98 a share, then spread stories in the media (including my own CNBC show) that people should sell, spread rumors to Engadget, Gizmodo that Apple was having some sort of problems, bought stories in the WSJ saying Apple's management has gone to crap, etc, all causing the price of the stock to drop, then bought at $90 a share, I just made $8,000,000.

(2) Where'd that money come from? Everyone. It doesn't matter what you've invested in, or if you've invested at all. That $8,000,000 is essentially a premium paid on the shares with no tangible valuable to the investor -- it harms the market, it harms our economy. It especially hurts the long-term investors who may have Apple stock, but it hurts everyone a little bit, and it doesn't matter whether or not you took his "sell! sell! sell!" bullshit advice at $90, their wealth isn't materializing out of thin air, it negatively impacts the market and that's gonna hurt everyone regardless of their involvement.[/quote]


...But that's the unfortunate truth either way. The only thing that's making Cramer more repugnant to you is that now there's a face to put to all of it. There's never going to be a fair, free market by design. There also can't even be a fair, regulated market either as the ones now regulating were the ones screwing the pooch before.

Sure it's absolutely horrendous that Wall Street is essentially using the economy as the foundation for their "Megabucks" where the players are the American public but what's so surprising about that to be honest?
 
Koggit,

I hope you are not trying to say short selling is market manipulation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with shorting a stock. Now shorting a stock and spreading false rumors of why it should decline is wrong but the basic idea of shorting is not illegal and it is not market manipulation, it is actually a healthy aspect of the market.

I hate this assumption that shorting is bad, that by shorting the markets you are "betting against America." Stocks should not always be going up and the government should not be trying to artifically prop the markets up by limiting the ability to short stocks.
 
[quote name='BillyBob29']Koggit,

I hope you are not trying to say short selling is market manipulation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with shorting a stock. Now shorting a stock and spreading false rumors of why it should decline is wrong but the basic idea of shorting is not illegal and it is not market manipulation, it is actually a healthy aspect of the market.

I hate this assumption that shorting is bad, that by shorting the markets you are "betting against America." Stocks should not always be going up and the government should not be trying to artifically prop the markets up by limiting the ability to short stocks.[/quote]

Slightly different scenario , but I'm mostly just looking for clarification. Short selling stocks is ok , unless your shorting stocks for a company that you work for or are in a position of authority in correct? That would be considered insider trading yes? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
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