Lawsuit Filed To Overturn Ohio Election Results

C

coffman

CAGiversary!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Ohio-Electoral-College.html

There have been thousands of reports of fraud and severe voting problems all across Ohio. The lawsuit is asking that Ohio's electors not be allowed to vote for Bush or that a revote be performed in the state. Also, in a congressional hearing today in Columbus, OH there are allegations that there is proof of tampering with the central tabulators by Triad, one of the companies that makes voting machines.
 
Is it ever too late, if proof of fraud has been found? I would suggest that because this is really the cornerstone of a democracy, yes, *regardless* of who won, wouldn't it be pertinent to do our damndest to make sure all votes were properly counted?

seppo
 
I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell. Various voting machine companies are also implicated, as well as congressman Feeney(R) from Florida. As far as it being to late for the election result to change, that isn't quite true. If the evidence of fraud is significant and proven, Ohio could end up sending two sets of electors to Washington. Congress would then have the final say on which set to accept. Obviously, I would expect them to pick the electors for Bush which is why I don't believe the election results will change. This could create a backlash among a large segment of the country who would then believe the Republican party in general supports fraud.
 
[quote name='helava']Is it ever too late, if proof of fraud has been found? I would suggest that because this is really the cornerstone of a democracy, yes, *regardless* of who won, wouldn't it be pertinent to do our damndest to make sure all votes were properly counted?

seppo[/quote]

I will be interested to the court will determine these people don't have standing to challenge the Ohio electoral college voters for voting for Bush. While elections are a state issue, the electoral college is Federal.

I wonder if they should have also sued in federal court.
 
[quote name='coffman']I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell. Various voting machine companies are also implicated, as well as congressman Feeney(R) from Florida. As far as it being to late for the election result to change, that isn't quite true. If the evidence of fraud is significant and proven, Ohio could end up sending two sets of electors to Washington. Congress would then have the final say on which set to accept. Obviously, I would expect them to pick the electors for Bush which is why I don't believe the election results will change. This could create a backlash among a large segment of the country who would then believe the Republican party in general supports fraud.[/quote]

And really isn't a charge in a newspaper of fraud equivilant to fraud?

Also - the electors voted on Monday. Dead issue, the votes are in.

I also fail to see how you arrived at the conclusion that Ohio would send two set of electors.

Additionally Congress wouldn't choose between two sets - because he electors are a state issue. Further Ohio wouldn't send two sets, only one.

CTL
 
[quote name='coffman']I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell.[/quote]

I think you make a good point here. I think most people realize that it would take a miracle to overturn Bush's election at this point. However it would be worthwhile to investigate whether or not the claims of voting machine fraud in Ohio have any merit, and make any people who comitted fraud pay for their crime. After all, you can't tell the Ukraine how to run their elections when you're not willing to look for dirty politics in your own back yard.
 
I agree that this wont change a thing.

However, if there was voter fraud, then this needs to be investigated. Not to change the outcome of the election, but to prosecute anyone involved.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='coffman']I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell.[/quote]

I think you make a good point here. I think most people realize that it would take a miracle to overturn Bush's election at this point. However it would be worthwhile to investigate whether or not the claims of voting machine fraud in Ohio have any merit, and make any people who comitted fraud pay for their crime. After all, you can't tell the Ukraine how to run their elections when you're not willing to look for dirty politics in your own back yard.[/quote]

A reasonable and fair point.
 
All wrongs will be righted, and as a bonus there will be peace in the Middle East and NASA will get all the funding it needs and the bureaucrats taken off it's back.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']All wrongs will be righted, and as a bonus there will be peace in the Middle East and NASA will get all the funding it needs and the bureaucrats taken off it's back.[/quote]

:rofl:
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']All wrongs will be righted, and as a bonus there will be peace in the Middle East and NASA will get all the funding it needs and the bureaucrats taken off it's back.[/quote]

I would give NASA all the funding they needed as long as they take you up in a rocket and leave you up there.
 
[quote name='jlarlee'][quote name='Quackzilla']All wrongs will be righted, and as a bonus there will be peace in the Middle East and NASA will get all the funding it needs and the bureaucrats taken off it's back.[/quote]

I would give NASA all the funding they needed as long as they take you up in a rocket and leave you up there.[/quote]

I'll happily contribute as well.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']I will be interested to the court will determine these people don't have standing to challenge the Ohio electoral college voters for voting for Bush. While elections are a state issue, the electoral college is Federal.[/quote]

I would have to disagree with you on this point (unless I'm misunderstanding you.) Once the electors have gone to (Washington, or where ever it is they go to cast their votes), then it becomes a federal issue. Before that point, though, the selection of the electors is entirely, 100% a state issue. A state can choose to select their electors any way they want to - states don't even have to have elections if they don't want to, and could instead have the state legistlature pick the electors. Of course, most, possibly all, states have their selection method outlined in their state constitution, so obviously they have to follow that. Still, overall, the matter is a state issue, not a federal one.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman']I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell. Various voting machine companies are also implicated, as well as congressman Feeney(R) from Florida. As far as it being to late for the election result to change, that isn't quite true. If the evidence of fraud is significant and proven, Ohio could end up sending two sets of electors to Washington. Congress would then have the final say on which set to accept. Obviously, I would expect them to pick the electors for Bush which is why I don't believe the election results will change. This could create a backlash among a large segment of the country who would then believe the Republican party in general supports fraud.[/quote]

And really isn't a charge in a newspaper of fraud equivilant to fraud?

Also - the electors voted on Monday. Dead issue, the votes are in.

I also fail to see how you arrived at the conclusion that Ohio would send two set of electors.

Additionally Congress wouldn't choose between two sets - because he electors are a state issue. Further Ohio wouldn't send two sets, only one.

CTL[/quote]

The Ohio State Supreme Court could order a different set of electors to go to Washington. I admitt I don't completely understand the process, but it has happened before (I believe it was in the 1870's when a state sent two sets of electors. I'll see if I can find any information on that.)
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Boy, this is pointless since the Electoral College meets today to vote and make it irreversable.[/quote]

And that doesn't matter considering the Senate isn't counting them until January 6th, and the president gets asigned into office on January 20ish.
 
[quote name='coffman'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='coffman']I don't expect the result of the election to change. I do believe, however, that there will be many people going to prison for election fraud. The Ohio Republican Party is already implicated in the vote fraud along with Secretary of State Blackwell. Various voting machine companies are also implicated, as well as congressman Feeney(R) from Florida. As far as it being to late for the election result to change, that isn't quite true. If the evidence of fraud is significant and proven, Ohio could end up sending two sets of electors to Washington. Congress would then have the final say on which set to accept. Obviously, I would expect them to pick the electors for Bush which is why I don't believe the election results will change. This could create a backlash among a large segment of the country who would then believe the Republican party in general supports fraud.[/quote]

And really isn't a charge in a newspaper of fraud equivilant to fraud?

Also - the electors voted on Monday. Dead issue, the votes are in.

I also fail to see how you arrived at the conclusion that Ohio would send two set of electors.

Additionally Congress wouldn't choose between two sets - because he electors are a state issue. Further Ohio wouldn't send two sets, only one.

CTL[/quote]

The Ohio State Supreme Court could order a different set of electors to go to Washington. I admitt I don't completely understand the process, but it has happened before (I believe it was in the 1870's when a state sent two sets of electors. I'll see if I can find any information on that.)[/quote]


Hawaii sent two sets of electors in 1960.
 
[quote name='Drocket'][quote name='CTLesq']I will be interested to the court will determine these people don't have standing to challenge the Ohio electoral college voters for voting for Bush. While elections are a state issue, the electoral college is Federal.[/quote]

I would have to disagree with you on this point (unless I'm misunderstanding you.) Once the electors have gone to (Washington, or where ever it is they go to cast their votes), then it becomes a federal issue. Before that point, though, the selection of the electors is entirely, 100% a state issue. A state can choose to select their electors any way they want to - states don't even have to have elections if they don't want to, and could instead have the state legistlature pick the electors. Of course, most, possibly all, states have their selection method outlined in their state constitution, so obviously they have to follow that. Still, overall, the matter is a state issue, not a federal one.[/quote]

No, I would agree with you. I am even confused with what I wrote, unless, what I meant was they filed AFTER the electors had voted, that would have made it a federal issue. I honestly am not sure in retrospect what I meant.

As for the Hawaii example, good pick up, I would wonder what the specific procedures are under OH law are however - thats really what it would hinge on. But Hawaii was a valid example of a state sending two sets.

So how did they resolve the Hawaii issue?

CTL
 
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