Marine general: "It's fun to shoot some people..."

E-Z-B

E-Z-B

CAGiversary!
SAN DIEGO -- At a panel discussion in San Diego Tuesday, a top Marine general tells an audience that, among other things, it is "fun to shoot some people."

The comment, made by Lt. Gen. James Mattis, came in reference to fighting insurgents in Iraq. He went on to say, "Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. I like brawling."

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

About 200 people gathered for the discussion, held at the San Diego Convention Center. While many military members laughed at the comments, a military expert interviewed by NBC 7/39 called the comments "flippant."

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http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4153541/detail.html

I understand that the "perfect" soldier needs to have no remorse with killing, but to boast about it to the press on top of the torture abuse, soldiers draggin Iraqs out of their homes in the middle of the night, and raping, and the bulldozing of Iraqi homes, really degrades America's image even worse to the rest of the world. And half of America. Basically, to everyone except the right-wingnuts.
 
"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I agree with this statement.
 
[quote name='bignick']"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I agree with this statement.[/quote]
 
[quote name='bignick']"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I agree with this statement.[/quote]

We got plenty of guys here who slap women around as well. I guess it's a-ok to shoot them.
 
I can imagine if you're in a war shooting soldiers on the other side of the lines, you have to attempt to rationalize it somehow in an attempt to keep your sense of right and wrong. War is ugly, and it must truly be considered as a last resort.
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal'][quote name='bignick']"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I agree with this statement.[/quote]

We got plenty of guys here who slap women around as well. I guess it's a-ok to shoot them.[/quote]

Ahh yes but we have that little thing called trial by jury. Oh let's not forget about excessive punishment... Obviously this general feels that if they're muslim their a woman beater and terrorist.


Its people like this that make our entire country look bad.
 
Yeah, they were flippant remarks, but would you rather have soldiers in battle who hate their jobs? Keep in mind that the cashier who hates her job at the grocery store usually gives the worst service, sighs and complains when she rings your order, curses when having to call for a price, complains to you that her break is late or she was supposed to go home an hour ago. She'd be the first one killed in armed conflict.

Personally, I think we need guys like this for our armed forces to be effective. But this guy is a general and probably hasn't fired his weapon in an engagement since Greneda. So, I'd hazzard a guess that he was playing to the audience more than displaying overzealousness.


And usickenme plays the race card:

I am sure by "some" he meant "brown"
Click to expand...

With that comment, U-sicken-all-of-us.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Yeah, they were flippant remarks, but would you rather have soldiers in battle who hate their jobs? Keep in mind that the cashier who hates her job at the grocery store usually gives the worst service, sighs and complains when she rings your order, curses when having to call for a price, complains to you that her break is late or she was supposed to go home an hour ago. She'd be the first one killed in armed conflict.

Personally, I think we need guys like this for our armed forces to be effective. But this guy is a general and probably hasn't fired his weapon in an engagement since Greneda. So, I'd hazzard a guess that he was playing to the audience more than displaying overzealousness.[/quote]

But soldiers like this lead to an increase in unnecessary deaths and human rights violations. When the actual combat phase of a war ends, when you have to police and patrol a civilian population and gain their support, you don't want these kinds of soldiers.
 
[quote name='bignick']"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I agree with this statement.[/quote]

Party of morals my ass.
 
Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?
 
This thread is just another example of how Political correctness has gone too far in this country, and how stupid people have become that they pretend to know someone because of a couple of sentences.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Scrub, just curious, but do you use the rolling eyes face at the end of every argument so you don't have to back them up? Do you just hope we will assume that it's "logical" because the smiley face is rolling his eyes?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='bmulligan']Yeah, they were flippant remarks, but would you rather have soldiers in battle who hate their jobs? Keep in mind that the cashier who hates her job at the grocery store usually gives the worst service, sighs and complains when she rings your order, curses when having to call for a price, complains to you that her break is late or she was supposed to go home an hour ago. She'd be the first one killed in armed conflict.

Personally, I think we need guys like this for our armed forces to be effective. But this guy is a general and probably hasn't fired his weapon in an engagement since Greneda. So, I'd hazzard a guess that he was playing to the audience more than displaying overzealousness.[/quote]

But soldiers like this lead to an increase in unnecessary deaths and human rights violations. When the actual combat phase of a war ends, when you have to police and patrol a civilian population and gain their support, you don't want these kinds of soldiers.[/quote]

Yes, but they are soldiers, not diplomats or GI Joe dolls.

The tool of the soldier is his/her gun, their job is to kill the enemy and win the war.

That's exactly the problem here - what are we trying to win? Is the goal no WMDs, elimination of mid-east terrorism, or democracy for Iraq? Can you realistically expect the military and Haliburton to force Iraq into being a truly secular capitalistic democracy?

I suppose we shall see.
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Hmm. That's strange. I didn't know that San Diego was declared a warzone.
 
A general's job is to kill the enemy - in fact his job is to discern how best to kill the enemy. So him making a statement about killing people isn't outlandish or out of place. In fact it is expected, especially in a time of war. And for someone to dedicate their life to an institution whose main purpose is to protect us by killing the enemy I would sure as hell hope that he likes killing the enemy or he made a majorly bad career decision for him and for us.

But this is all common sense and is only discussed in places like this among wacko liberals.
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Scrub, just curious, but do you use the rolling eyes face at the end of every argument so you don't have to back them up? Do you just hope we will assume that it's "logical" because the smiley face is rolling his eyes?[/quote]

Watch out, you're treading on thin ice. He's about to pull out his trump card, the OWNED!!!1! post.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='Mr Unoriginal'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Scrub, just curious, but do you use the rolling eyes face at the end of every argument so you don't have to back them up? Do you just hope we will assume that it's "logical" because the smiley face is rolling his eyes?[/quote]

Watch out, you're treading on thin ice. He's about to pull out his trump card, the OWNED!!!1! post.[/quote]

I think he hit a nerve, his last post is a typical scrubking post, wacko liberals and all, yet had no rolling eyes.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='Mr Unoriginal'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Scrub, just curious, but do you use the rolling eyes face at the end of every argument so you don't have to back them up? Do you just hope we will assume that it's "logical" because the smiley face is rolling his eyes?[/quote]

Watch out, you're treading on thin ice. He's about to pull out his trump card, the OWNED!!!1! post.[/quote]

I think he hit a nerve, his last post is a typical scrubking post, wacko liberals and all, yet had no rolling eyes.[/quote]

He didn't respond to the eye allegations either.
 
A general's job is to kill the enemy - in fact his job is to discern how best to kill the enemy.

That's a short-sighted, small minded view.
Have you even bothered to find or look up what the standard orders issued to a General are? There are many more jobs and responsibilites that "discerning how to best kill the enemy"

Assignment of Functions and Responsibilities within Headquaters, Department of the Army.

So him making a statement about killing people isn't outlandish or out of place. In fact it is expected, especially in a time of war.

When he says "Shooting people is fun", yes it is.
War is a terrible, horrible thing. Any soldier will tell you that.
Any who minimalizes or trivializes the horror of it is disgusting.
There are many statements he could have made about killing people that weren't outlandish. This one is.


And for someone to dedicate their life to an institution whose main purpose is to protect us by killing the enemy I would sure as hell hope that he likes killing the enemy or he made a majorly bad career decision
for him and for us.

Any man who takes joy in the slaughter of others is not a man I want to be associated with, nor have my government be associatied with.
Taking joy in the murder of others is disgusting. I don't what some half cocked cowboys out thier just shooting down everything that moves because they think it's fun.
I want men who plan thouroughly, conduct operations with accuracy and proficiency... consumate professionals, which is what generals are supposed to be.
This man disgraced the Corp. While I can't speak for him, I have a feeling this would disgust D4rkewolfe as well.

But this is all common sense and is only discussed in places like this among wacko liberals.
If you think it's common sense to hire psychopaths who love to induge themselves in the slaughter of others to run your military, you have less sense than I though.

War is often necessary, and when it is, you want the job done professionally... and professionals do not lightly their duty, nor find the slaughter of enemy combatant "fun".
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='Mr Unoriginal'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Well, as I said, the remarks were 'flippant'. I'll expand and say uncalled for as well, especially from a general. Generals are more than just commanders, they are PR people and actually take trainning to that effect to tell them what not to say and when not to say it. It is suprising that a general would say these things, but as I mentioned also, I think he was playing to the audience. I'm curious what people were audience members, anybody know ? OP ?[/quote]

No kidding. One would expect a three star general to have a bit more tact than that. This would be just like an executive of a major corporation making flipant remarks about "those and how they ahere to "[/quote]

It's absolutely nothing like that. It's a huge leap to compare a CEO to a general in the middle of a war. :roll:[/quote]

Scrub, just curious, but do you use the rolling eyes face at the end of every argument so you don't have to back them up? Do you just hope we will assume that it's "logical" because the smiley face is rolling his eyes?[/quote]

Watch out, you're treading on thin ice. He's about to pull out his trump card, the OWNED!!!1! post.[/quote]

I think he hit a nerve, his last post is a typical scrubking post, wacko liberals and all, yet had no rolling eyes.[/quote]

There were plenty of rolling eyes after that post.
They just weren't from Scrubking.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']A general's job is to kill the enemy - in fact his job is to discern how best to kill the enemy. So him making a statement about killing people isn't outlandish or out of place. In fact it is expected, especially in a time of war. And for someone to dedicate their life to an institution whose main purpose is to protect us by killing the enemy I would sure as hell hope that he likes killing the enemy or he made a majorly bad career decision for him and for us.

But this is all common sense and is only discussed in places like this among wacko liberals.[/quote]

So the Iraqis will understand that when we're having "fun" shooting them, it's really to "win their hearts and minds"?

Puh-lease. It's one thing to train a soldier to not feel remorse for killing, but it's another thing to have our leaders tell the media that they're enjoying the slaughter of human beings. Are we the "respected" United States Marines or another al-Qaeda?
 
This discussion reminds me of "Grosse Point Blank"

No, no, psychopaths kill for no reason. I kill for money. It's a job. That didn't sound right; In the beginning, it matters that you have something to hang onto. A specific ideology to defend, right? Taming unchecked aggression -- that was my personal favorite. Other guys like `Live free or die.' But you do it because you're trained to do it, you're encouraged to, and ultimately, you get to like it. I know that sounds bad.
Click to expand...
 
What this guy said was really interesting too me, and I wonder just how many people in the military are like him. Taking pleasure, or getting off on ending peoples lives is what we are talking about. Anyone who has ever seen video of these guys blowing people apart and cheering might understand what is being questioned here.
 
[quote name='Chrono81']What this guy said was really interesting too me. I think it gives a glimpse of the kind of mentality that alot of people in the military have, but one they wouldn't want you to know about. Taking pleasure, or getting off on ending peoples lives is what we are talking about. Anyone who has ever seen video of these guys blowing people apart and cheering might understand what is being questioned here.[/quote]

Don't brand the entire military by what this one foolish general said.
It does not give you a glimpse into the mindset that the majority of the military has. That's almost as foolish a statement as saying that soldiers should enjoy killing.
 
I never said the majority, but I think it's more then people might believe. It's not so much one foolish general as it is one general with loose lips that sink ships...and no offense, but to think of the entire military as being purely noble and righteous barring one general is about as foolish as thinking the entire military is cold and sadistic.
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='Chrono81']What this guy said was really interesting too me. I think it gives a glimpse of the kind of mentality that alot of people in the military have, but one they wouldn't want you to know about. Taking pleasure, or getting off on ending peoples lives is what we are talking about. Anyone who has ever seen video of these guys blowing people apart and cheering might understand what is being questioned here.[/quote]

Don't brand the entire military by what this one foolish general said.
It does not give you a glimpse into the mindset that the majority of the military has. That's almost as foolish a statement as saying that soldiers should enjoy killing.[/quote]

I agree, in fact a lot of people I saw quoted in reaction against were in the military or used to be in the military...As for your other comments Chrono, did it occur to you that pilots, soliders, etc are happy after having killed someone, not because they did that, but because they are alive. I'm not military, but I'd probably be pretty happy to be alive too after a hellish firefight.
 
They're killing because it's "fun" trying to remedy a domestic dispute. Not because it's saving their life. Read the quote again.
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']They're killing because it's "fun" trying to remedy a domestic dispute. Not because it's saving their life. Read the quote again.[/quote]

No need...Read my post again, I was trying to refer to the comments about cheering afterwards, not the topic or article quotes.
 
I'm confused as to the context of the quotes posted by the OP and the article didn't elaborate either. The article does not specify when the comments were made or whether they were part of the actual discussion. They could have been an off-hand remark before or after the intended event.

Psycologically, the comments could have been a mechanism to alleviate stress when revisiting his experiences. I also gather that the audience consisted of a large constituency of soldiers, which could also influence his behavior and explain the callousness. Yes, this guy might be a psycho, but there are undoubtedly too many missing facts to allow a definitive judgement.

It sure makes an emotion provoking news article, though.
 
Here's the CNN article with a little more info:

Marine general: It's 'fun to shoot people'

Commandant gives counsel, acknowledges wrong word choice

Thursday, February 3, 2005 Posted: 4:16 PM EST (2116 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Mattis' press office has not yet responded to a request to answer questions about his comments.

However, the Marine commandant, Gen. Michael Hagee, defended Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," he said in a written statement. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

Hagee said he had counseled Mattis regarding the remarks and that Mattis "agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

"Throughout our history, Marines have given their lives in the defense of this nation and human rights around the globe," Hagee's statement read. "When necessary, this commitment helps to provide us the fortitude to take the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security. This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our profession of arms."

"Lt. Gen. Mattis is a superb leader and one of the Corps' most courageous and experienced warriors," Hagee wrote. "I remain confident that he will continue to serve this nation with dedication and distinction."

Added Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "The last three times that that general has been in combat, when he was leading Marines in Afghanistan and the two times that he led his division in Iraq, his actions and those of his troops clearly show that he understands the value of proper leadership and the value of human life."

Pace spoke Thursday during a Pentagon briefing. He declined to comment directly on Mattis' comments.

Early in his career, Mattis served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander as a lieutenant and later a captain. He also commanded assault battalions in Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. He was the commander of the 1st Marine Division for the initial attack on Iraq.

San Diego television station KNSD, which calls itself NBC 7/39, captured Mattis' Tuesday comments on video and interviewed a retired military man afterward who said the general's remarks were "flippant."

"I was a little surprised," said retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."
 
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