Michael Pachter Speaks on Looming Battle Between Red Octane and Harmonix

FriskyTanuki

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http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/14/pachter-activision-right-to-buy-red-octane-instead-of-harmonix/

In the wake of Red Octane's controversial Guitar Hero II launch on the Xbox 360 and MTV's purchase of Harmonix --- the original developers of Guitar Hero -- there's one big pink elephant question floating around the industry: Did Activision make a mistake when they purchased publisher, peripheral manufacturer, Guitar Hero rights holder Red Octane instead of developer Harmonix?

Michael Pachter, managing director at Wedbush Morgan Securities, thinks Activision made the right decision, "Would you pay $150 million dollars for someone who ripped off [Konami's] Guitar Freaks? The game is fun, I totally respect Harmonix, I'm sure Red Octane turned to them [with Guitar Hero] and said let's figure out a way to rip off Guitar Freaks and help sell our peripherals ... I think at the end of the day, the MTV/Harmonix game [Rock Band] will be a good game, it will cannibalize market share. I think it's good for consumers and it'll make Activision and Neversoft work harder [on Guitar Hero III]."

The entire situation between Red Octane and its former developer Harmonix has become very complex. With Activision's purchase of Red Octane and MTV's purchase of Harmonix the two companies are on very separate paths. Red Octane has retained Neversoft to develop the next Guitar Hero. Red Octane retained all rights to Guitar Hero, including the look and -- most importantly -- the guitar.

Pachter says legal recourse is why Harmonix has been so tight about information regarding Rock Band, "Who do they think they are? Rockstar? Blizzard? They think they can just wait until the last moment to release information?" Pachter believes that Harmonix/MTV/EA are getting their lawyer ducks in a row before they show anything of the game. Harmonix stated in a recent telephone interview that even the peripherals for Rock Band will be developed by Harmonix, opening up a whole new world of hardware development for the company. Pachter, who previously was a lawyer for many years, says that if the look of Rock Band or the guitars (which may need to have "six buttons to be legally different") comes anywhere close to Guitar Hero's look or Red Octane's guitars that Activision will have every right to sue. Conversely, Harmonix has to figure out how to copyright the drum peripheral so that Red Octane doesn't begin development on their own version. Pachter does find the situation fascinating, "I guess what's interesting here is Harmonix/MTV telling us that this game, with its four peripherals and the game, is coming out in less than six months and yet we have no more details."

Activision spent $100 million dollars for Red Octane and Guitar Hero. With the millions of copies sold of the game and the guitar, Pachter says Activision is making their money back and Neversoft will have no problem developing the third iteration of the game. He says the pieces are already in place to bang out another sequel and points out that there's hardly any difference between the first and second game. Guitar Hero III will be a hit unless Neversoft strays far from the formula. Pachter believes if anyone made a purchasing mistake it was MTV with their $175 million acquisition of Harmonix. Harmonix created a Guitar Freaks clone and is now trying their hand at peripheral manufacturing, a Karaoke Revolution clone, a Drum Mania clone and the technical achievement of making all these peripherals work online without lag getting in the way. Rock Band is a new IP with a lot of corporate players involved, not to mention a massive technical undertaking -- it's all a big risk. Pachter put it quite simply, "Activision didn't buy the wrong company, MTV bought the wrong company."
Could be an even more interesting fall than I thought it would be. I do agree that Red Octane and Activision has the obvious advantage right now.
 
Well if you love GH 1&2, Im sure Activision and Neversoft are gonna give you more of the same. But I doubt that there will be any innovation to future sequels. Then again, Im not even sure innovation is whats needed.

As far as saying that Harmonix developed a Guitar Freaks clone, which came first? Guitar Freaks or Frequency & Amplitude. Cos if GH is a rip of anything, its Harmonix' two earlier games, only now controlled with a guitar.
 
You know, it really does seem like the tide has turned on the GH craze. There was a time where everyone thought GH was the greatest thing since sliced bread but it certainly would seem that people are starting to take off their rose colored glasses.

I know that personally this whole GH2 on 360 thing, from launch till now has really soured me. I was super excited about it and now it seems like they're shitting all over us fans and trying their best to milk every single penny out of us. Now there's news on Gamespot that the GH3 will have all the things we thought the 360 version of GH2 would (and should) have. $90 for the package we got now, throw in a wireless guitar? how much exactly are they going to want for GH3 anyway?
 
Hmm... if RedOctane has ownership of the guitar controller, which means Harmonix has to make their own guitar controller for Rock Band, can they still claim you can use the GH guitar for Rock Band?
 
I'm really excited to see what competition is going to do to the advancement of these games. I hope they take the time to get it right and don't rush it to the market!
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']You know, it really does seem like the tide has turned on the GH craze. There was a time where everyone thought GH was the greatest thing since sliced bread but it certainly would seem that people are starting to take off their rose colored glasses.

I know that personally this whole GH2 on 360 thing, from launch till now has really soured me. I was super excited about it and now it seems like they're shitting all over us fans and trying their best to milk every single penny out of us. Now there's news on Gamespot that the GH3 will have all the things we thought the 360 version of GH2 would (and should) have. $90 for the package we got now, throw in a wireless guitar? how much exactly are they going to want for GH3 anyway?[/quote]

Man, I feel the same way! I had to return the 360 version due to the whammy bar troubles, and now this whole patch and DL rip-off fiasco has made me think twice about going back to BB for the replacement. I've definitely cooled on GH in the last week.
 
[quote name='botticus']Hmm... if RedOctane has ownership of the guitar controller, which means Harmonix has to make their own guitar controller for Rock Band, can they still claim you can use the GH guitar for Rock Band?[/quote]
Definitely, I don't think Red Octane can really stop them from doing that. Though Pachter's example of RB's guitar having six fret buttons would be out of the question with their claim of compatability with the GH guitar. They just can't flat out copy the GH guitar's design for their own.

It could potentially be a good thing for RO, in that people who'd want RB and have the GH guitar wouldn't need to buy the RB guitar because it's compatible.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Definitely, I don't think Red Octane can really stop them from doing that. Though Pachter's example of RB's guitar having six fret buttons would be out of the question with their claim of compatability with the GH guitar. They just can't flat out copy the GH guitar's design for their own.

It could potentially be a good thing for RO, in that people who'd want RB and have the GH guitar wouldn't need to buy the RB guitar because it's compatible.[/quote]That was really what my vague question was hitting on. If the RB guitar has to be designed differently than the RO guitar, then they may have some compatibility problems. Unless they can get away with adding additional hardware design features that are ultimately useless/unnecessary in the software to allow GH guitars to function.

But as you say, it might be in RO's best interest to let that slide as it won't help RB much in the revenue department, and people may very well choose to get the RO guitar if they need one, as it will open up both Rock Band and Guitar Hero to them.
 
[quote name='TC']Wombat loves him some Pachter!!![/QUOTE]

I just spoke with his assistant, who didn't know what Cheapassgamer was, I wonder if Mr. Pachter will call me back?
 
[quote name='Wombat']I just spoke with his assistant, who didn't know what Cheapassgamer was, I wonder if Mr. Pachter will call me back?[/QUOTE]

He's probably out getting the inside track on how the PSP pricedrop may or may not lead to more PSP's being sold.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']guitar freaks looks so lame though.. i went to the arcade the other day hoping to see guitar hero but instead only saw freaks[/quote]

Well dee-you-double eich, DUH. There ISN'T an arcade version of Guitar Hero and there will NEVER be one for obvious reasons.

And I'd like to hear from someone who DOES play GH such as yourself describe as to why GuitarFreaks is "lame".
 
didnt they already say that the gh controller would not work for rock band?

nohbdy- im a gh noob. Guitar freaks never stood out to me.. i gave gh a chance and i liked it. Simple as that. Im sure it is good and all but just looks old. I coulda sworn that gh originated at arcades but guess i was wrong.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']They said the guitar WOULD work with Rock Band.[/quote]

o ok.. i had read the original post where they said it would not... glad that they corrected that
 
[quote name='TC']He's probably out getting the inside track on how the PSP pricedrop may or may not lead to more PSP's being sold.[/QUOTE]

he called me back, really nice, cool guy, will explain more later
 
[quote name='Wombat']he called me back, really nice, cool guy, will explain more later[/QUOTE]

Interesting!! Gotta give us full details on this week's CAGcast!!
 
Pachter, who previously was a lawyer for many years, says that if the look of Rock Band or the guitars (which may need to have "six buttons to be legally different") comes anywhere close to Guitar Hero's look or Red Octane's guitars that Activision will have every right to sue.

Maybe I don't get how all this licensing stuff works out but... How's that?
 
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