Microsoft Mantra - if you can't beat em, sue em (Smartfone Warz)

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Microsoft has managed to stem the slide of Windows Phone 7 (WP7) smartphone operating system market share in the US, according to analyst outfit NPD Group.
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Although Microsoft has managed to halt the decline, the truth is that WP7 is near rock bottom as it is. NPD reports that Windows smartphones, which includes both WP7 and Windows Mobile, made up just five percent of units sold in the second quarter.
It's not all doom and gloom for Microsoft, however. The company will be eyeing Android's 52 per cent market share as a potential gold mine as tries to flog licences for Google's operating system to device manufacturers, claiming Android infringes its patents.
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http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...-smartphone-marketshare-decline-windows-phone

Microsoft accused Motorola Mobility of infringing seven of its patents on Monday and called for a ban on imports to the US for some of its handsets, says Bloomberg. This would see US shoppers denied Motorola phones called the Droid 2, Droid X, Cliq XT, Devour, Backflip and Charm.
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These include, ooh, synchronising emails, and, gasp, displaying changes in battery charge level.
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http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2103672/microsoft-issues-google-s-motorola-android-patents

Gotta love M$oft. Not so much of an innovation company, it's more like a horde of well-organized technovikings. Never saw a technology it didn't try and buy, steal, or kill.
 
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It's hardly just MS though.

See Apple suing the hell out of Samsung saying their phones/tablets are too similar to the iPhone/iPad and various other bs patent infringement suits they've made and other companies have made against them. Same thing with Google etc.

It's just unfortunately the norm in the tech business these days. The patent system apparently needs a lot of work to stem off so many law suits.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's hardly just MS though.

See Apple suing the hell out of Samsung saying their phones/tablets are too similar to the iPhone/iPad and various other bs patent infringement suits they've made and other companies have made against them. Same thing with Google etc.

It's just unfortunately the norm in the tech business these days. The patent system apparently needs a lot of work to stem off so many law suits.[/QUOTE]

Agreed on Apple, Apple has always relied on three things - brilliant design, the halo effect, and lawsuits.

However I don't agree about Google - Google is a company that has typically been more focused on technological innovation and beating the competition with an all-around better product. Google is just stocking up on patents now because that's how the game is played. As they are learning the hard way, it's counter-sue or die.
 
I just read about this and laughed my ass off. All of those phones they want to get banned aren't really even sold anymore or already have replacements sitting on shelves.
 
[quote name='62t']Funny thing is MS was in the mobile phone market before Google and Apple.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but honestly who wants a MS smartphone. They should stick to building faulty console hardware, at least that seems to sell
 
I have no interest in an MS smartphone (or a smartphone at all really).

I am interested in seeing how the Windows 8 tablets/slates turn out. I have an iPad 2 and it's great for just media consumption stuff like reading newspapers/magazines etc., surfing the net, checking e-mail, reading PDFs, playing some games etc.

But it's not very functional for work stuff beyond reading PDFs, e-mail and checking my Google calendar etc., so I have some hopes that with an Windows 8 tablet I could do all the media consumption stuff and also at least have full MS Office to do some light work when traveling without the compatibility problems you get with all the third party office apps on iOS/Android where formatting tends to get wrecked in more complex documents when you go back and forth between Office on the PC and the tablet apps.
 
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According to rough sales figures, Microsofts first generation console has 12% market share. They came back kicking with the 360 and a 28% market share and is considered highly successful. They aren't good with hardware but I think they will get their smart phone right over time.
 
Uh, you don't know how long they've been trying for, do you? MS has been trying to get mobile operating systems right since Windows CE.
 
[quote name='Clak']Uh, you don't know how long they've been trying for, do you?[/QUOTE]

I would say this is a different type of software oriented market that they will be more successful at. But sure, it could flop like the others.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I would say this is a different type of software oriented market that they will be more successful at. But sure, it could flop like the others.[/QUOTE]

If they make a better product then I hope they are successful. I just think it's a bullshit tactic to use patent lawsuits for stuff like battery level and email sync to get an edge.
 
[quote name='camoor']If they make a better product then I hope they are successful. I just think it's a bullshit tactic to use patent lawsuits for stuff like battery level and email sync to get an edge.[/QUOTE]

It is, but as you note everyone has to do it these days as it's just the norm.

You can't compete with companies like Apple who are suing the hell out of people left and right over bs patent issues if you're not willing to play the same game.

So I see the problem as more the flawed patent and litigation system that these companies are exploiting, than anything to do with any one of these corporations.

Pretty much all corporations suck and just do whatever they can to make as much money as they can. No point in hating one more than the next, nor having any loyalty to any of them. If you want to own good gadgets (or anything pretty much) you're going to have to give your money to a corporation who's business practices you'd dislike if you looked into them.

So I just ignore all this crap and buy whatever fits my needs best.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I would say this is a different type of software oriented market that they will be more successful at. But sure, it could flop like the others.[/QUOTE]
Do you work in PR by any chance? Different type of software oriented market? Wtf are you talking about? Let me put it to you like this, in 2010 Symbian was more popular than MS's mobile OSes, fucking Symbian. I've used a Nokia smartphone, Symbian is shit, but was still more popular.
 
[quote name='Knoell']According to rough sales figures, Microsofts first generation console has 12% market share. They came back kicking with the 360 and a 28% market share and is considered highly successful. They aren't good with hardware but I think they will get their smart phone right over time.[/QUOTE]

And they were losing money during the entire lifespan of Xbox 1 and early Xbox 360. If they were willing to do the same they might have a chance.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It is, but as you note everyone has to do it these days as it's just the norm.

You can't compete with companies like Apple who are suing the hell out of people left and right over bs patent issues if you're not willing to play the same game.

So I see the problem as more the flawed patent and litigation system that these companies are exploiting, than anything to do with any one of these corporations.

Pretty much all corporations suck and just do whatever they can to make as much money as they can. No point in hating one more than the next, nor having any loyalty to any of them. If you want to own good gadgets (or anything pretty much) you're going to have to give your money to a corporation who's business practices you'd dislike if you looked into them.

So I just ignore all this crap and buy whatever fits my needs best.[/QUOTE]

I kind of agree - but at the same time I love cool gadgets and I love my Android phone. I'd hate to get features removed because M$oft is on a quest to cripple opensource competitors in hopes that it will get consumers to buy their shitty smartphone OS. From your post I think we agree that it would be better if companies focused on cutthroat innovation and pricing rather then patent wars.

And as far as patents go, M$oft threw the first punch (as usual). You can hardly blame Google for putting up a good fight in defense.

Taking aside Bill Gates' philanthropic works, I think the world would be a better place if Microsoft never existed. There I said it.
 
Have to disagree with that. If not them, then Apple or IBM would have been the big monopoly in the computer world. Somebody had to win and dominate the industry.

It's an area where uniformity is key. There needs to be standardization in OS, office software and so on for it to really work in the business world etc. Point being, someone had to win that game as it would never have worked for company A to be using an MS OS, Company B an Apple OS, Company C an IBM OS, Company D linux etc.

Things need to be standard and compatible so people can work collaboratively and so on. Too much time and efficiency would be wasted if there where multiple OS's out there with near equal market share.

I like Apple hardware, but I'd never make the switch as almost everyone in my field is on PCs, some software I use is PC only etc. It's just a case where for simplicity's sake that it's for the best that one OS pretty much one out and that's what most people in most fields are using.

I have no loyalty to MS by any means, they're just who won and who it's most convenient for me to use. I don't like a lot of things they do, but I don't see Apple or Google etc. as being much better.
 
[quote name='Clak']Do you work in PR by any chance? Different type of software oriented market? Wtf are you talking about? Let me put it to you like this, in 2010 Symbian was more popular than MS's mobile OSes, fucking Symbian. I've used a Nokia smartphone, Symbian is shit, but was still more popular.[/QUOTE]

Quit getting your panties in a bunch because I said Microsoft might do better this time around.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Have to disagree with that. If not them, then Apple or IBM would have been the big monopoly in the computer world. Somebody had to win and dominate the industry.

It's an area where uniformity is key. There needs to be standardization in OS, office software and so on for it to really work in the business world etc. Point being, someone had to win that game as it would never have worked for company A to be using an MS OS, Company B an Apple OS, Company C an IBM OS, Company D linux etc.

Things need to be standard and compatible so people can work collaboratively and so on. Too much time and efficiency would be wasted if there where multiple OS's out there with near equal market share.

I like Apple hardware, but I'd never make the switch as almost everyone in my field is on PCs, some software I use is PC only etc. It's just a case where for simplicity's sake that it's for the best that one OS pretty much one out and that's what most people in most fields are using.

I have no loyalty to MS by any means, they're just who won and who it's most convenient for me to use. I don't like a lot of things they do, but I don't see Apple or Google etc. as being much better.[/QUOTE]

Don't disagree that uniformity was a goal that was useful in the past, but I wish it had been a Google-type company that had won out (technical innovation focused) instead of Microsoft (business deal lock-out/litigation focused)
 
[quote name='Knoell']Quit getting your panties in a bunch because I said Microsoft might do better this time around.[/QUOTE]
Listen pookie, I work with this stuff, I keep up with this stuff and follow these companies. In short, don't talk out your ass.
 
[quote name='camoor']Don't disagree that uniformity was a goal that was useful in the past, but I wish it had been a Google-type company that had won out (technical innovation focused) instead of Microsoft (business deal lock-out/litigation focused)[/QUOTE]

I suppose.

But while I don't like their business practices, I've had no issues with thinking MS hasn't been innovative. They've done a good job of regularly updating their OS and Office programs etc. IMO--though they've certainly had some misteps with things like Windows ME and Vista etc.

But Windows 7 is fantastic IMO, and I like what they're trying to do with Windows 8 with getting more uniformity across desktops/laptops, tablets and smartphones as I really want a tablet that's closer to a tablet PC than the iPad and Android tablets are. Office was stagnant for a while, but got a nice (IMO) UI overhaul with Office 2007. Office 2010 wasn't much of an update though.

I'm just not that enamoured with Google. They made a great search engine, but I've not been all that impressed with anything else they've done. I hate g-mail (hate the conversation system, prefer a plain inbox/outbox system), Google docs messes up formatting to much and was made useless with cloud apps like Dropbox. Android is a fine mobile OS, and I like a lot of that better than iOS. But it's moot as the app selection is more limited--especially Tablet apps.

Apple is probably even worse than MS with lawsuits, and you have all their walled garden crap and their army of annoying fanboys. So I'm no fan of theirs despite having an iPad 2.

In short, I don't like MS or Apple's business practices--and agree Google is better on that front. But I'm going to use whatever fits my needs best as I don't really care much about how corporations treat one another personally. They all suck in my book! :D
 
[quote name='Clak']Do you work in PR by any chance? Different type of software oriented market? Wtf are you talking about? Let me put it to you like this, in 2010 Symbian was more popular than MS's mobile OSes, fucking Symbian. I've used a Nokia smartphone, Symbian is shit, but was still more popular.[/QUOTE]
Being a former Nokia fanboy, you have to admit that for non-touchscreen smartphones, Symbian is the beset bar none. Their communicator line was simply the bees knees since the 9000. The reason why Nokia is sucking eggs now, as I'm sure you know, is because they weren't quick enough to respond to iOS and that s60 touch was shite, as well as Symbian not being free. But I don't see winmo7 being a boon for Nokia and their old reputation for having the best hardware and build quality are gone. Although, I can't help but be intrigued by the N9.

Yes, I am a phone geek.:D
 
First off, fuck software patents. Die.
[quote name='Knoell']According to rough sales figures, Microsofts first generation console has 12% market share. They came back kicking with the 360 and a 28% market share and is considered highly successful. They aren't good with hardware but I think they will get their smart phone right over time.[/QUOTE]
7 is better than Winmo 6 and 6.5 but that's because they were so incredibly shit. I owned both 6 and 6.5 phones and I'll never own a Winmo phone again. I don't give a shit how good their platform gets. MS has been in the space for a long, long time. They deserve to have their lunch eaten if 7 is the culmination of that time in the space.

And really, has there been a bigger crash and burn story in the hardware space than Nokia? Putting those two together as friends forever is perfect. It keeps Nokia's trash hardware out of the space people actually care about.

Just sayin.
[quote name='dmaul1114']But while I don't like their business practices, I've had no issues with thinking MS hasn't been innovative. They've done a good job of regularly updating their OS and Office programs etc. IMO--though they've certainly had some misteps with things like Windows ME and Vista etc.[/quote]
The only innovation out of Redmond has been the Xbox division, which has been great.
But Windows 7 is fantastic IMO,
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If I can be honest as a Win 7 fanboy myself here and add to that statement: Windows 7 is fantastic in that it doesn't crash every 5 minutes. It took the things I liked about Ubuntu and wrapped them in a Windows shell. And yea, it doesn't crash every 5 minutes. That's nice. I like that too.
and I like what they're trying to do with Windows 8 with getting more uniformity across desktops/laptops, tablets and smartphones as I really want a tablet that's closer to a tablet PC than the iPad and Android tablets are.
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The world is being app-ified. Development on multiple platforms is absurdly easier than it was even a year ago. MS's hegemony continued as a result of its hegemony to start. You put Office on Android tablets that will have quad core procs by the end of the year along with a docking station for typing and they demolish Win8. What would even be the point of buying Win8?
Office was stagnant for a while, but got a nice (IMO) UI overhaul with Office 2007. Office 2010 wasn't much of an update though.
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And 2007 was about 3 years late. Sure, 07 was good. I ain't hatin there. But when you draw a timeline from Office 2000 to Office 2010 and look at the big picture to see how much they did in a decade (surprising little for a flagship product from the world dominator in the space) and then realize Google didn't hardly exist at the start of that timeline, you realize just how god awful MS dev cycles are.
I'm just not that enamoured with Google. They made a great search engine, but I've not been all that impressed with anything else they've done. I hate g-mail (hate the conversation system, prefer a plain inbox/outbox system), Google docs messes up formatting to much and was made useless with cloud apps like Dropbox. Android is a fine mobile OS, and I like a lot of that better than iOS. But it's moot as the app selection is more limited--especially Tablet apps.
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I love Google for the pressure. They pressure those around them to be better. Apple used to be that company. Now Apple is MS 10 years ago (sue the planet and innovate later) and MS is Nintendo today (how bout you kill your platform and give us your apps somewhere else plz lulz).
In short, I don't like MS or Apple's business practices--and agree Google is better on that front. But I'm going to use whatever fits my needs best as I don't really care much about how corporations treat one another personally. They all suck in my book! :D
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Can't disagree there.
 
[quote name='speedracer']The only innovation out of Redmond has been the Xbox division, which has been great.[/QUOTE]

Can you really say great when the console has such a high rate of hardware failure? I'd have probably bought one if not for that, but it is a glaring flaw IMO.

Full disclosure: I love my PS3 and IMO it beats the 360 hands-down. So glad I went Sony this gen.
 
I don't get how you guys could be mad at Microsoft.

Other companies are using the technology that they created without paying license fees. Obviously they would sue them. As you guys should know, R&D costs a lot of money.
 
[quote name='jimwhat']I don't get how you guys could be mad at Microsoft.

Other companies are using the technology that they created without paying license fees. Obviously they would sue them. As you guys should know, R&D costs a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

lol
 
[quote name='camoor']Can you really say great when the console has such a high rate of hardware failure? I'd have probably bought one if not for that, but it is a glaring flaw IMO.[/quote]
Absolutely a valid complaint. I'm thinking more from a business perspective. Their build out of the Live experience has been organic and great. The implementation of new features has been great. My only real bitch with the system (aside from horrendous fail rates in the first 4 360 models) is that it doesn't have a browser.
Full disclosure: I love my PS3 and IMO it beats the 360 hands-down. So glad I went Sony this gen.
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I also owned a PS3, but I sold it because long ago Sony decided they were done with feature addition. And let's be honest, their utter fail on the hacking thing is, in my mind, at least as bad as the Xbox hardware fail. Only complete luck prevented the credit card info of millions of users from leaking. If that went differently, there wouldn't be a Sony Gaming division today.

/don't mean to turn it into a fanboy thing
//and the ylod is much more prevalent than i think is reported
 
[quote name='camoor']lol[/QUOTE]
Dude, you need to stop putting Google on such a high pedestal. For one second, try not to be bias and look at the situation objectively.

The law is the law; whether you like it or not you have to follow it. MSoft never sued Google, they sued the manufactures who were using their Lawfully and Globally accepted patents without permission.

That's life for you. You have to follow the laws or else you pay the price.

No court in the world would agree with your argument because, frankly, you have no support for it. And anytime someone tries to disproove you, all you do is laugh. Which really just means that you dont have a counter-argument.:roll:
 
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[quote name='jimwhat']Dude, you need to stop putting Google on such a high pedistool. For one second, try not to be bias and look at the situation objectively.

The law is the law; whether you like it or not you have to follow it. MSoft never sued Google, they sued the manufactures who were using their Lawfully and Globally accepted patents without permission.

That's life for you. You have to follow the laws or else you pay the price.

No court in the world would agree with your argument because, frankly, you have no support for it. And anytime someone tries to disproove you, all you do is laugh. Which really just means that you dont have a counter-argument.:roll:[/QUOTE]

That's true, but the law sucks basically because the company is using it just to hinder development and advancement, while maximizing profits of their own. One thing about laws is they can be changed, nothing is set in stone.

[quote name='The Crotch']Nothing constructive add, but...

Jesus tits almighty, I wish that was actually a word.[/QUOTE]

I have to admit, when I first read the word, the first thing that popped into my head was a stool with human feet on it.:)
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Nothing constructive add, but...

Jesus tits almighty, I wish that was actually a word.[/QUOTE]

lol I cant spell:dunce:

[quote name='docvinh']That's true, but the law sucks basically because the company is using it just to hinder development and advancement, while maximizing profits of their own. One thing about laws is they can be changed, nothing is set in stone.



I have to admit, when I first read the word, the first thing that popped into my head was a stool with human feet on it.:)[/QUOTE]

That, I completely agree with.
 
[quote name='speedracer'] You put Office on Android tablets that will have quad core procs by the end of the year along with a docking station for typing and they demolish Win8. What would even be the point of buying Win8?[/quote]

Well, unless Win8 fails, there won't be any official MS Office on Android or iOS. So it will remain like now where all you can get are third party apps that are fine if you're just writing simple text only essays etc, but tend to wreck formatting on more complex documents when converting back and forth.

The other benefit is for simplicity's sake it would be nice to have the same companies OS on your desktop, laptop and tablet and only have to learn one OS, hopefully be able to buy an app once and install it on all your machines etc.

It's a bit of a hassle being a PC user and having an iPad for instance as I hate being locked into iTunes etc. If it's all the same OS it would all work together pretty seamlessly I'd hope.

And 2007 was about 3 years late. Sure, 07 was good. I ain't hatin there. But when you draw a timeline from Office 2000 to Office 2010 and look at the big picture to see how much they did in a decade (surprising little for a flagship product from the world dominator in the space) and then realize Google didn't hardly exist at the start of that timeline, you realize just how god awful MS dev cycles are.
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To be fair. Word, Excel and Powerpoint are used on a pretty basic level by most users, myself included. So I don't really need much innovation to just write my scholarly articles and create research presentations etc. (I don't really use Excel as I use stats software like SPSS for all my data work).

So I'd still be perfectly happy using Office 2000. Office 2007/2010 made some things more intuitive with the ribbons and thus having less things buried deep in drop down menus. But it's not that different for most of the simple work I do with it.
 
[quote name='62t']Funny thing is MS was in the mobile phone market before Google and Apple.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, Windows Mobile 6 and 6.5 totally blow. I've never ever used any operating system that freezes and hangs as much as WinMo. Been running a port of Android ever since and have 0 problems.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I also owned a PS3, but I sold it because long ago Sony decided they were done with feature addition. And let's be honest, their utter fail on the hacking thing is, in my mind, at least as bad as the Xbox hardware fail. Only complete luck prevented the credit card info of millions of users from leaking. If that went differently, there wouldn't be a Sony Gaming division today.

/don't mean to turn it into a fanboy thing
//and the ylod is much more prevalent than i think is reported[/QUOTE]

Touche. It really is how you use it - if Live was more important to me I'd be a big 360 fan. I just love how easy it is to upload videos, picutres, and mp3s to the PS3 - admittedly I don't know how 360 handles that type of thing. Closer to the truth, the PS3 is the console I've been looking for my whole life and I can't wait to see what the future brings.
 
[quote name='jimwhat']That, I completely agree with.[/QUOTE]

I think most people agree but the law just doesn't get changed. I see alot of that from Congress - they know what the people want, but for some reason we don't get it. Checks and balances are good and majority rule in all things is bad, but at the same time not changing anything because it upsets a small minority of backwards-thinking fuckwads and lobbyist lackeys is also bad.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Well, unless Win8 fails, there won't be any official MS Office on Android or iOS. So it will remain like now where all you can get are third party apps that are fine if you're just writing simple text only essays etc, but tend to wreck formatting on more complex documents when converting back and forth.[/quote]
I look back 5 years and see Windows XP at the height of its power. I look around today and see that the best operating systems are the ones that get the hell out of the way. Virtually by definition, MS cannot produce an OS that does that. The stranglehold isn't even Win7 or whatever WinOS, it's Office... and even then, you can get it on Apple. More and more will get Macs and more will simply not get traditional computers. Sooner or later, the levy will break. There will not be a Windows 9 and if there is, it's going to look a helluva lot more like Android than Win7.

The point of all of that is just to say that formatting won't be what holds back the tide. In 5 years, you'll write your doc on your whatever notepad program you like and then you'll send it off to some cloud program that does the formatting. All standards will be cloud based standards, including gaming. OnLive's gaming streaming service, Spotify's music streaming service, etc., etc., will morph into everything you could possibly need streaming service, on demand and fee or subscription based.
The other benefit is for simplicity's sake it would be nice to have the same companies OS on your desktop, laptop and tablet and only have to learn one OS, hopefully be able to buy an app once and install it on all your machines etc.
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What the hell is a desktop, grandpa? And laptops.. aren't those those bulky ancient tablets? :D

Seriously tho. 5 years and I think laptops will all but be novelties and desktops will be those computers you use at work.
It's a bit of a hassle being a PC user and having an iPad for instance as I hate being locked into iTunes etc. If it's all the same OS it would all work together pretty seamlessly I'd hope.
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Distributed services are platform agnostic. HTML5, etc. That's the beauty of it.
To be fair. Word, Excel and Powerpoint are used on a pretty basic level by most users, myself included. So I don't really need much innovation to just write my scholarly articles and create research presentations etc. (I don't really use Excel as I use stats software like SPSS for all my data work).

So I'd still be perfectly happy using Office 2000. Office 2007/2010 made some things more intuitive with the ribbons and thus having less things buried deep in drop down menus. But it's not that different for most of the simple work I do with it.
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At the same time, Office is completely replaceable if people agreed to do so. The rise of the actual cloud, actual distributed computing will do that. It will be as transformative as the internet was.

5 years. 10 if we're unlucky.
 
[quote name='speedracer']
The point of all of that is just to say that formatting won't be what holds back the tide. In 5 years, you'll write your doc on your whatever notepad program you like and then you'll send it off to some cloud program that does the formatting. All standards will be cloud based standards, including gaming. OnLive's gaming streaming service, Spotify's music streaming service, etc., etc., will morph into everything you could possibly need streaming service, on demand and fee or subscription based. [/quote]

Maybe, but I don't like that crap myself. I work on the go a good bit, and refuse to pay for outrageous 3G data plans so I'm not very interested in cloud programs on my laptop.

The other big hang up just isn't MS office, it's software availability in general. I've never bothered considering changing to Mac as I'd still have to install windows to run some windows only stats programs etc. so it's just a waste of time and a big hassle.

Maybe your cloud idea can work around that issue as well, but I won't be a fan unless there are much cheaper and faster mobile internet plans out there--i.e. if I could pay say $30-50 a month tops and that covered my internet at home and on any tablets, smartphones, laptops etc. when on the go.

Seriously tho. 5 years and I think laptops will all but be novelties and desktops will be those computers you use at work.
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Meh, anyone that works on the go needs a full laptop with keyboard and full OS to run all their software.

Sure it may switch to tablets with docking stations--but those are really just laptops with removable screens in that case, so not a major change in form factor. I have an iPad as it's thinner and lighter than even the smallest laptops. If I have to use that and a dock in the future, then it's no different than a laptop in terms of portability etc.

[quote name='dohdough']Call me old fashioned, but I do not want my shit in the cloud.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. The only thing I like with cloud stuff is cloud file syncing programs like dropbox where your files get downloaded and stored locally on all your machines and it just uses the cloud to keep the files updated in every place. I fucking love that as it beats the hell out of manually moving files back and forth with jump drives etc., and it's still all stored locally on my laptop, desktop and work desktop.
 
Hey dmaul. Have you considered looking at the Iconia Win 7. It looks like it's got some real power under the hood for $500. It almost seems to me like it's the steal of the tablets pricewise.
Heck if you don't like the Windows on it, load Android.

As for Android, if I had a choice between Windows and Android, I'd pick Windows. No way am I giving the CIA an Amazon one click solution into my shit as you know Larry Page likely built that shit in there, somewhere in the OS coding of Android given he's ex-CIA.

Also, if Android became the dominant operating system I'd go Mac or anyone else. If it became games I'd use it, block the online. If it was online necessary, I'd buy the game then download a cracked version(I hate the idea you have to be online all the time though, should the broadband drop as such, also see reasons above in 2nd paragraph again).

As for the Laptops going away I don't think it's going to happen. Laptops will just become the new desktops. Look at the Macbook Pro. Reading about Thunderbolt it seems like you've got a real on the go solution for dealing with encoding space hogging 1080p, especially full color 1080p. Jump that to external RAID drive configurations with Thunderbolt connections and you're set. No dragging around a fucking Mac Pro. You can go real guerilla style with that. Some National Geographic programmers must be LOVING this as well as documentary filmmakers shooting in places like Afghanistan, Africa, etc.

edit: I suppose the only shame of these Mac lappy's is MS still won't do a Blu disc. What if you have limited broadband at the place you're in or it's being blocked? How the fuck are you going to smuggle the footage out of Syria or some other place? A dual layer Blu might be the most practical solution, especially given how durable the scratch coating is suppose to be.
Shit it seems MS isn't even thinking of guerilla style unless they think USB 3.0 will cut it, which I'm wondering if it will. Isn't it slower then Thunderbolt?
 
I'm fine with my iPad 2 for now. The form factor (size, thinness, weight etc.) is great, as is the 10 hour battery life.

My only gripes is I wish it had a user accessible file system (without jailbreaking) for dragging and dropping stuff, usb drive support, and MS Office (or more compatible apps).

So I won't switch to something else unless there's something that matches or betters the form factor and battery life of the iPad 2 and adds those few things I'd like to have in my tablet.

As for that tablet, windows 7 sucks on a tablet, and Android is still severely lacking in Tablet apps.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I look around today and see that the best operating systems are the ones that get the hell out of the way. Virtually by definition, MS cannot produce an OS that does that.[/QUOTE]

If MS can deliver on their promises of a Minority Report type OS then that would be totally worth it. Otherwise I agree - fuck off with "extras" like 3D wallpaper and shitty forced internet browsers and let me make my own damn choices.
 
I'd add than an OS that "gets the hell out of the way" isn't necessarily a good thing.

I think that's what Apple is trying to do with the iOS by not having a user accessible file/folder system etc., and it just ends up making it more of a headache to get files on and off the iPad/iPhone, into specific apps etc.

But I'll freely admit I'm pretty resistant to change on computer stuff and don't like the learning curve associated with new OSs. I started on Windows 3.x and have always used it so I'm very used to dragging and dropping files and folders. Especially since that scheme really hasn't changed at all since Windows 95.

Damn kids! Get off my lawn and quit fucking with my computer OS! :D
 
[quote name='speedracer']I look back 5 years and see Windows XP at the height of its power. I look around today and see that the best operating systems are the ones that get the hell out of the way. Virtually by definition, MS cannot produce an OS that does that. The stranglehold isn't even Win7 or whatever WinOS, it's Office... and even then, you can get it on Apple. More and more will get Macs and more will simply not get traditional computers. Sooner or later, the levy will break. There will not be a Windows 9 and if there is, it's going to look a helluva lot more like Android than Win7.

The point of all of that is just to say that formatting won't be what holds back the tide. In 5 years, you'll write your doc on your whatever notepad program you like and then you'll send it off to some cloud program that does the formatting. All standards will be cloud based standards, including gaming. OnLive's gaming streaming service, Spotify's music streaming service, etc., etc., will morph into everything you could possibly need streaming service, on demand and fee or subscription based.

What the hell is a desktop, grandpa? And laptops.. aren't those those bulky ancient tablets? :D

Seriously tho. 5 years and I think laptops will all but be novelties and desktops will be those computers you use at work.

Distributed services are platform agnostic. HTML5, etc. That's the beauty of it.

At the same time, Office is completely replaceable if people agreed to do so. The rise of the actual cloud, actual distributed computing will do that. It will be as transformative as the internet was.

5 years. 10 if we're unlucky.[/QUOTE]Disagree with desktops disappearing. Maybe for some, but not everyone. No way am I going to be playing Starcraft on a tablet.
 
I feel like the guy that has to tell the olds that the picture tube is here to stay. :D

Imma talk my ass off because I love this conversation.
[quote name='dohdough']Call me old fashioned, but I do not want my shit in the cloud.[/QUOTE]
You and me both, brother. But we are what we are. Old. Part of my job and degree is in use cases. How do people use tech? What do they want and need to be successful? When I need assess a group older than college kids, I always get the same demands. Local. Local. Local. We want our backups of backups of backups and we want them physical and local.

The kids today don't want local. What's the point? Why have something tied to physicality? Physicality is local and local is an access choke point. And access is the only thing that matters to them.

In 5-10 years, these people will be making business decisions. And that, as they say, will be that.

btw, love how we both shit on Nokia in posts earlier. Sad and true, and a great example of the divide. Under 24: WTF is a Nokia? 25 and over: lulz awww I just made myself sad.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Maybe, but I don't like that crap myself. I work on the go a good bit, and refuse to pay for outrageous 3G data plans so I'm not very interested in cloud programs on my laptop.[/quote]
This is the modern equivalent to the reaction to the dedicated phone line vs. the party line. Jesus, do you see how much a dedicated line costs? That's absurd! And just to talk on a phone! I mean damn. Just go see the person if you need to talk to them in private.

The cost of data as a basic staple of frigging existence is built into kids today. They will choose it over cable TV and just about all other staples, barring the ones that actually keep you alive.
The other big hang up just isn't MS office, it's software availability in general. I've never bothered considering changing to Mac as I'd still have to install windows to run some windows only stats programs etc. so it's just a waste of time and a big hassle.
Click to expand...
Remember when Apple was all but dead and the diehards used to scream about how they needed their Mac cause they were graphic designers or whatever?

There will always be a subset that need a specific platform. But like graphic designers, there just aren't that many in the world.
Maybe your cloud idea can work around that issue as well, but I won't be a fan unless there are much cheaper and faster mobile internet plans out there--i.e. if I could pay say $30-50 a month tops and that covered my internet at home and on any tablets, smartphones, laptops etc. when on the go.
Click to expand...
This will happen, but slowly because it is against the providers' interests to do so. Bandwidth will be the impediment.
Meh, anyone that works on the go needs a full laptop with keyboard and full OS to run all their software.

Sure it may switch to tablets with docking stations--but those are really just laptops with removable screens in that case, so not a major change in form factor. I have an iPad as it's thinner and lighter than even the smallest laptops. If I have to use that and a dock in the future, then it's no different than a laptop in terms of portability etc.
Click to expand...
You have to remember that we're just starting with tablets. You have to compare tablets today to laptops 2 years into their creation. Or cell phones. Or desktops. The transformation will be staggering.
Agreed. The only thing I like with cloud stuff is cloud file syncing programs like dropbox where your files get downloaded and stored locally on all your machines and it just uses the cloud to keep the files updated in every place. I fucking love that as it beats the hell out of manually moving files back and forth with jump drives etc., and it's still all stored locally on my laptop, desktop and work desktop.
Click to expand...
We are all of us old enough to have seen the rise of the "cloud". We watched the growing pains and the debate on security and access etc. etc. But there are people in college that did not participate in that. The cloud is and always was. Google is and always was. Our trepidation over these tools was not inherited by the next generation, just as the olds' trepidation about cell phones and computers was not inherited by us.
[quote name='Sarang01']As for Android, if I had a choice between Windows and Android, I'd pick Windows. No way am I giving the CIA an Amazon one click solution into my shit as you know Larry Page likely built that shit in there, somewhere in the OS coding of Android given he's ex-CIA.[/quote]
Broheim, if you think MS hasn't been in bed with the Feds for decades, I got a bridge I want to sell you.
As for the Laptops going away I don't think it's going to happen. Laptops will just become the new desktops. Look at the Macbook Pro. Reading about Thunderbolt it seems like you've got a real on the go solution for dealing with encoding space hogging 1080p, especially full color 1080p. Jump that to external RAID drive configurations with Thunderbolt connections and you're set. No dragging around a fucking Mac Pro. You can go real guerilla style with that. Some National Geographic programmers must be LOVING this as well as documentary filmmakers shooting in places like Afghanistan, Africa, etc.
Click to expand...
The argument against the laptop was that it would never measure up to the desktop. Obviously we're waaaaay past that now. The same will hold true for tablets and phones.
[quote name='dmaul1114']My only gripes is I wish it had a user accessible file system (without jailbreaking) for dragging and dropping stuff, usb drive support, and MS Office (or more compatible apps).[/quote]
Oh man, I'm glad you brought up file systems. You know what the kids today hate more than broccoli? File systems. It's not even passive like they just don't care. They actively don't want them. They want their programs to auto-find everything. I open the program, my files are showing already. Oh, and they're not local.
[quote name='camoor']If MS can deliver on their promises of a Minority Report type OS then that would be totally worth it. Otherwise I agree - fuck off with "extras" like 3D wallpaper and shitty forced internet browsers and let me make my own damn choices.[/QUOTE]
8g7Bw.jpg


:D

[quote name='Clak']Disagree with desktops disappearing. Maybe for some, but not everyone. No way am I going to be playing Starcraft on a tablet.[/QUOTE]
Sure. There will always be a subset of users for which a device makes sense. I'll cut my fingers off before I play an FPS with a controller.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I feel like the guy that has to tell the olds that the picture tube is here to stay. :D

Imma talk my ass off because I love this conversation.

You and me both, brother. But we are what we are. Old. Part of my job and degree is in use cases. How do people use tech? What do they want and need to be successful? When I need assess a group older than college kids, I always get the same demands. Local. Local. Local. We want our backups of backups of backups and we want them physical and local.

The kids today don't want local. What's the point? Why have something tied to physicality? Physicality is local and local is an access choke point. And access is the only thing that matters to them.

In 5-10 years, these people will be making business decisions. And that, as they say, will be that.[/quote]
You're absolutely right. You could even make the argument that our most important data, our money, has been in the cloud for decades. It's not like every bank branch has their own on-site data server, right?

I think that as long as networks are vulnerable and there's a literal off-switch that can be implemented on a governmental level, well, just call me paranoid.:lol:

btw, love how we both shit on Nokia in posts earlier. Sad and true, and a great example of the divide. Under 24: WTF is a Nokia? 25 and over: lulz awww I just made myself sad.
Click to expand...
Hahaha...yeah...:cry:

This will happen, but slowly because it is against the providers' interests to do so. Bandwidth will be the impediment.
Click to expand...
Regarding data costs, I don't see it going down unless it becomes a public utility and treated as such, not like cable.

You have to remember that we're just starting with tablets. You have to compare tablets today to laptops 2 years into their creation. Or cell phones. Or desktops. The transformation will be staggering.

The argument against the laptop was that it would never measure up to the desktop. Obviously we're waaaaay past that now. The same will hold true for tablets and phones.
Click to expand...
I agree. As portables become more powerful, docks will be more commonplace for those that don't want/need a dedicated workstation. Not me though...I love building computers and can barely stand typing on my phone, muchless a tablet.:D

We are all of us old enough to have seen the rise of the "cloud". We watched the growing pains and the debate on security and access etc. etc. But there are people in college that did not participate in that. The cloud is and always was. Google is and always was. Our trepidation over these tools was not inherited by the next generation, just as the olds' trepidation about cell phones and computers was not inherited by us.
Click to expand...
I agree here too.

Broheim, if you think MS hasn't been in bed with the Feds for decades, I got a bridge I want to sell you.
Click to expand...
Conspiracy alert! I'm guessing he forgot about ISP's handing over personal info to the Feds too.

Oh man, I'm glad you brought up file systems. You know what the kids today hate more than broccoli? File systems. It's not even passive like they just don't care. They actively don't want them. They want their programs to auto-find everything. I open the program, my files are showing already. Oh, and they're not local.
Click to expand...
I have to admit that I like the search feature, and to be honest, the average user doesn't need to know where everything is as long as it "just works." And man, do I hate that dumb marketing cliche...



Sure. There will always be a subset of users for which a device makes sense. I'll cut my fingers off before I play an FPS with a controller.
Click to expand...
Hahahaha...snob!
 
[quote name='Clak']Disagree with desktops disappearing. Maybe for some, but not everyone. [/QUOTE]

Definitely. Desktops will always make the most sense for business use. They're cheaper for the same or higher specs and more storage space than a laptop or tablet, more durable and the lower portability lessens the chance of them being stolen (employee isn't taking it out of the office), lost (same reason), dropped and broken etc.

[quote name='speedracer']
The kids today don't want local. What's the point? Why have something tied to physicality? Physicality is local and local is an access choke point. And access is the only thing that matters to them. [/quote]

Personally I think the ideal compromise is programs like dropbox. Cloud synch so no hassling with jump drives etc. to move files back and forth, but still have the files locally on all your machines for those who care.

This is the modern equivalent to the reaction to the dedicated phone line vs. the party line. Jesus, do you see how much a dedicated line costs? That's absurd! And just to talk on a phone! I mean damn. Just go see the person if you need to talk to them in private.

The cost of data as a basic staple of frigging existence is built into kids today. They will choose it over cable TV and just about all other staples, barring the ones that actually keep you alive.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure. I can't tell you how many of my students bitch about the price of books etc., yet have smart phones with their absurd $30 a month data plans.

It's just not for me. I spend the vast majority of my time in the home or office where I have internet (including wifi for my iPad etc. both places) and couldn't give a rat's ass about having internet access when out and about as I like to get away from technology and the internet. When traveling etc. I just stay in hotels with free internet for personal travel and use my expense account to pay for it if the conference hotel charges for it on business trips. Super easy to find free wifi in cities these days as well.

Remember when Apple was all but dead and the diehards used to scream about how they needed their Mac cause they were graphic designers or whatever?

There will always be a subset that need a specific platform. But like graphic designers, there just aren't that many in the world.
Click to expand...

This is different than Apple. MS has dominated the OS market for decades so most professions stick with them as they thus have pretty much any software needed--outside of a few niches apple cornered like graphic design. I don't really see Windows not being the dominant OS any time soon. If the business world goes to the cloud stuff you're talking about, it will be a windows based cloud IMO.

In any case, I agree that as a researcher I'm more of a "power user" in that I do need a lot of specialty software relative the average desk jockey who seldom uses anything other than Office.

You have to remember that we're just starting with tablets. You have to compare tablets today to laptops 2 years into their creation. Or cell phones. Or desktops. The transformation will be staggering.
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying tablets couldn't do all the work a laptop can. I was saying that for me to do real work I need a keyboard, and if I have to pair the tablet with a keyboard dock, then it's pretty much a laptop in terms of portability.

Now the young whipper snappers may be able to use swype etc. and type just as fast, but I'm old and not willing to learn that kind of crap. And even typing speed aside on screen keyboards still have the big disadvantage of obscuring half the screen or so.

So I just don't see much advantage for using a tablet for the type of work I do--i.e. lots of data analysis and lots of writing. I'd have to pair it with a dock, and then I feel like I might as well just use a laptop.

A tablet for me is mainly an e-reader and net surfing device. Make it a bit more robust and I do some light work like edit powerpoints on the plane on the way to a conference etc. But I'll personally keep a laptop for real work as long as I have the option to buy one.

Oh man, I'm glad you brought up file systems. You know what the kids today hate more than broccoli? File systems. It's not even passive like they just don't care. They actively don't want them. They want their programs to auto-find everything. I open the program, my files are showing already. Oh, and they're not local.
Click to expand...

I'll cling to file systems as long as I can. The iPad is a major pain in the ass for a lot of things due to the lack of one. i.e. attaching files to e-mails--you have to open the app associated with the file, hit the button in the menu to send it to an e-mail and then send the e-mail. And you can only attach one file per e-mail that way. Huge pain in the ass vs. having a file system and just hitting the attach button in the e-mail program and attaching as many files as you want.

Sure. There will always be a subset of users for which a device makes sense.
Click to expand...

And that's the key. As long as I can get the type of devices I know and love, I could care less what the kids are using.

I'm just not much a bleeding edge tech guy anymore. I'd rather just use what I know and do things the way I always have even if knew things come out that are more efficient for those who have the patience to learn them. So I pretty much just stick with my PC and software I've been using for years, and only pick up new gadgets if they're super simple to use--i.e. the iPad, the Kindle etc. :D


[quote name='dohdough']
I have to admit that I like the search feature, and to be honest, the average user doesn't need to know where everything is as long as it "just works." And man, do I hate that dumb marketing cliche...
[/QUOTE]

My problem with search is I'm very often needing to go back to papers, presentations, datasets etc. that I haven't touched for months or even years. Searching sucks for that as it's easy to forget what file names. Where, on the other hand, it's easy to keep an orderly file system where I have clearly named folders for old projects and I can browse through and find the file I need even if I don't remember the name of it.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']You're absolutely right. You could even make the argument that our most important data, our money, has been in the cloud for decades. It's not like every bank branch has their own on-site data server, right?

I think that as long as networks are vulnerable and there's a literal off-switch that can be implemented on a governmental level, well, just call me paranoid.:lol:

Conspiracy alert! I'm guessing he forgot about ISP's handing over personal info to the Feds too.

[/QUOTE]

Actually I didn't but there's a difference between someone being completely in bed with someone and tailoring something like Android mostly to CIA people who are computer illiterate and something wher a person has to make a bit more effort.

As for the ISP bit, sure I know about that and it infuriates me. I wish I had Qwest as my ISP back then as they were the ONLY one's who didn't participate in that. Of course, coincidentally enough the CEO of the company at the time was either charged with embezzlement or some sex crime. What a coincidence, ehhh? Oh and before anyone calls me an idiot on the search bit I use one that completely anonymizes my shit for most of my searching.

As far as the governmental off switch this isn't good in general. I almost seem them being forced to basically get rid of it for e-commerce reasons. If you can shut it down so easily by the government then a Terrorist faction could easily do the same thing, albeit more low tech.
I suspect the reason they even have that ability is because it's been said the big Internet computing clusters are very centralized. A few locations you strike at and the Internet could be down for at least a few days or longer. This is also along the lines of how the off switch works as well I suppose, except more High-Tech.
 
[quote name='speedracer']

8g7Bw.jpg


:D[/QUOTE]

Can you uninstall it now though? Because having it on the system invariably leads to unwanted file reassociations and nag screens.

"I see you accidentally used this shitty browser to open your file. Would you like to make me your sole conduit to the internet instead of using the internet browser you have been using for the past 972 browsing sessions? I'll just make the 'yes' button the default in case you accidentally double-click. Toodles - Billy G"
 
I suppose they should provide the option to un-install IE, but I'd always keep it around.

There's still the odd site here and there that doesn't load properly in Firefox--i.e. some things here and there in some of my universities web portals.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I suppose they should provide the option to un-install IE, but I'd always keep it around.

There's still the odd site here and there that doesn't load properly in Firefox--i.e. some things here and there in some of my universities web portals.[/QUOTE]
That's because those commies want to indoctrinate you into thinking that you don't have a choice.:lol:
 
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