Muslims Demand End to Britain's Holocaust Day

PittsburghAfterDark

CAGiversary!
Holocaust Day must be scrapped, say Muslim leaders
By Toby Helm, Chief Political Correspondent
(Filed: 12/09/2005)

Downing Street is facing calls from its advisers to abolish Jewish Holocaust Memorial Day, established by Tony Blair four years ago, because it is offensive to Muslims.

The draft proposals have been produced by committees made up of Muslims who were appointed to advise the Prime Minister and other ministers on extremism.

Members of the committees are asking that Holocaust Day be replaced with Genocide Day to recognise the murders of members of their own faith in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia.

But the idea has provoked a fierce backlash from Jewish groups and others who say the advisers are trying to devalue the Holocaust.

The Queen is patron of the charity that organises the event, marked each year on Jan 27. The Home Office contributes £500,000 a year to it.

A member of one of the committees said the name Holocaust Day gave the impression that "western lives have more value than non-western lives".

The proposal had been drawn up to change that impression, said the committee member. "One way of doing that is if the Government were to sponsor a national Genocide Memorial Day," he added.

"The very name Holocaust Memorial Day sounds too exclusive to many young Muslims. It sends out the wrong signals: that the lives of [some] people are to be remembered more than others. It is a grievance that extremists are able to exploit."

The plan has been backed by Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain. "The message of the Holocaust was 'never again' and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive," he said.

"We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time."

Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal, which aims to provide relief and development aid to the poor and needy of Palestine, said: "There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years. That's pretty genocidal to me."

The committees are also set to clash with Mr Blair on his proposal to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, the radical Islamic group. Government sources say they will argue that a ban is unjustified because the group, which is proscribed in much of the Middle East, neither advocates nor perpetrates violence in Britain.

The recommendation was drawn up by committees which are advising the Government on a range of issues, including imams and mosques, Islamophobia and policing.

Mike Whine, a director of the British Board of Deputies, said: "Of course we will oppose this move. The whole point is to remember the darkest day of modern history." Louise Ellman, Labour MP and a trustee of the Holocaust Memorial, was also critical of the committees' stance. "These Muslim groups should stop trying to evade the enormity of the Holocaust," she said.

The committees will finalise their recommendations today and submit them to Mr Blair and Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, on Sept 22.

The Home Office said yesterday that it did not plan to act on the advice.

Holocaust Day was set up after a long campaign by Jews to create a memorial for the six million Jews who lost their lives.

Link
 
I really hope Britain doesn't give in and get rid of the memorial day. People need to remember the Holocaust. Especially with the way a lot of people today don't even know what it is or those that refuse to believe it happened. I remember in the spring, MTV did a show about it and they asked teens about the Holocaust. I distinctly remember one kid saying "Who cares about what happened in the 18th century" or something along those lines.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']I remember in the spring, MTV did a show about it and they asked teens about the Holocaust. I distinctly remember one kid saying "Who cares about what happened in the 18th century" or something along those lines.[/QUOTE]

Sadly true... and one of the top reasons why our country is collapsing. Nobody remembers anything any more. History for most young people began in 1991 with the invention of television, and our first president was the Notorious B.I.G. Puffy Combs was the Vice President who took over after Biggie's assassination.

Sucks to think that something so globally chaotic and insane as WWII happened only 60 years ago and people are already forgetting about it.
 
[quote name='Scobie']Sadly true... and one of the top reasons why our country is collapsing. Nobody remembers anything any more. History for most young people began in 1991 with the invention of television, and our first president was the Notorious B.I.G. Puffy Combs was the Vice President who took over after Biggie's assassination.
[/QUOTE]

You have it all wrong. you see, Biggie was the Pres., but it was actually Craig Mack who was the V.P. Puffy was the Secretary of State, but he stepped down from his position in order to help out with the mid-term elections of the Junior Mafia. Puffy decided to run himself, and he became speaker of the House. Craig Mack began to falter after "flava in your ear," so no one took him seriously as VP. when Biggie was shot their was chaos, and Puffy used that event to push Craig Mack out of the way and go down to the next line of presidential succession.

that is why now, diddy is running things at bad boy, biggie is dead, and we know longer here about craig mack.
 
Members of the committees are asking that Holocaust Day be replaced with Genocide Day to recognise the murders of members of their own faith in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia........

The plan has been backed by Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain. "The message of the Holocaust was 'never again' and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive," he said.

"We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time."

I have no problem with this, and, in fact, support it. While the holocaust was a major genocide, it wasn't the only one, and wasn't the worst considering the time it took place in (imagine rwanda if they were given the time hitler had). The disproportionate focus may very well be one of the reasons why we tend to ignore genocide, or genocide like conditions, in countries when they occur. While most know there were more genocides, we still think of only one "real" genocide, and the rest as lesser evils and less worthy of attention. To even place other genocides in the same sentence of the jewish holocaust is often taken as offensive by some.
 
the real question is will muslim countries support this if armenia is included? turkey has a long history of denying it, and it will interesting to see how other muslim countries react.
 
[quote name='munch']You have it all wrong. you see, Biggie was the Pres., but it was actually Craig Mack who was the V.P. Puffy was the Secretary of State, but he stepped down from his position in order to help out with the mid-term elections of the Junior Mafia. Puffy decided to run himself, and he became speaker of the House. Craig Mack began to falter after "flava in your ear," so no one took him seriously as VP. when Biggie was shot their was chaos, and Puffy used that event to push Craig Mack out of the way and go down to the next line of presidential succession.

that is why now, diddy is running things at bad boy, biggie is dead, and we know longer here about craig mack.[/QUOTE]

I liked tupac, at least he had a brain, or at least put it into some of his songs.
 
Members of the committees are asking that Holocaust Day be replaced with Genocide Day to recognise the murders of members of their own faith in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia.

That's not a bad idea.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It's too bad that there's no genocide going on in Palestine or Chechnya though. Why let facts get in the way of a crazy idea though![/QUOTE]

Well, chechnya has a huge civilian death toll. I've seen figures ranging between 60,000 and 150,000 for the last 11 years. There are regular kidnappings, disappearances, tortures, extrajudicial executions etc. Basically, if the concern is preventing genocide and mass killings, it can fit along with that, especially since there's a total disregard, and often outright hostility, for chechnyan life by russian forces, and, to a lesser extent, among seperatist forces (particularly extemist elements). It's not a full scale genocide like in germany, rwanda, cambodia, soviet union etc though.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well, chechnya has a huge civilian death toll. I've seen figures ranging between 60,000 and 150,000 for the last 11 years. There are regular kidnappings, disappearances, tortures, extrajudicial executions etc. Basically, if the concern is preventing genocide and mass killings, it can fit along with that, especially since there's a total disregard, and often outright hostility, for chechnyan life by russian forces, and, to a lesser extent, among seperatist forces (particularly extemist elements). It's not a full scale genocide like in germany, rwanda, cambodia, soviet union etc though.[/QUOTE]

Actually what Stalin did wasn't technically genocide, since he didn't try to exterminate any one group, other than just people opposed to him (or that were suspected of opposing him). I'm also surprised you didn't include China on the list (you know, the Cultural Revolution), although that also isn't genocide.

Here's an interesting site about the most horrific incidents in human history:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/power.art.htm
 
elprinciple, there must be some error on your list. George Bush, the Republicans and the United States are nowhere to be found! Surely you have a list that can BLAME BUSH???
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Actually what Stalin did wasn't technically genocide, since he didn't try to exterminate any one group, other than just people opposed to him (or that were suspected of opposing him). I'm also surprised you didn't include China on the list (you know, the Cultural Revolution), although that also isn't genocide.

Here's an interesting site about the most horrific incidents in human history:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/power.art.htm[/QUOTE]

An obvious genocide (like in germany and rwanda), did not occur. But, genocide did occur. There's probably no better example than in the Ukraine where 7-10 million were starved (by a government produced famine) and executed (a quote of about 10,000 a week was set after not enough were being killed). There are other examples, but that's the most obvious.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Actually what Stalin did wasn't technically genocide, since he didn't try to exterminate any one group, other than just people opposed to him (or that were suspected of opposing him). I'm also surprised you didn't include China on the list (you know, the Cultural Revolution), although that also isn't genocide.

Here's an interesting site about the most horrific incidents in human history:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/power.art.htm[/QUOTE]

An obvious genocide (like in germany and rwanda), did not occur. But, genocide did occur. There's probably no better example than in the Ukraine where 7-10 million were starved (by a government produced famine) and executed (a quota of about 10,000 a week was set after not enough were being killed). There are other examples, but that's the most obvious.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Actually what Stalin did wasn't technically genocide, since he didn't try to exterminate any one group, other than just people opposed to him (or that were suspected of opposing him). I'm also surprised you didn't include China on the list (you know, the Cultural Revolution), although that also isn't genocide.

Here's an interesting site about the most horrific incidents in human history:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/power.art.htm[/QUOTE]

Intersting how the article ignores the native americans that were killed in North and South America.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Actually what Stalin did wasn't technically genocide, since he didn't try to exterminate any one group, other than just people opposed to him (or that were suspected of opposing him). I'm also surprised you didn't include China on the list (you know, the Cultural Revolution), although that also isn't genocide.

Here's an interesting site about the most horrific incidents in human history:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/power.art.htm[/QUOTE]


what about the kulaks?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It's too bad that there's no genocide going on in Palestine or Chechnya though. Why let facts get in the way of a crazy idea though![/QUOTE]

So what. Surely you can't think that the biggest genocide in history was perpetrated against the Jewish people, and that since then we have not seen genocides that were bigger and just as horrific.

A day of remembrance should observe the fact that genocides happen in the modern world - however it's a much safer political move to pretend that this problem occured once in the first half of the 20th century ("Never again...") and that now it is somehow under control.
 
[quote name='camoor']So what. Surely you can't think that the biggest genocide in history was perpetrated against the Jewish people, and that since then we have not seen genocides that were bigger and just as horrific.

A day of remembrance should observe the fact that genocides happen in the modern world - however it's a much safer political move to pretend that this problem occured once in the first half of the 20th century ("Never again...") and that now it is somehow under control.[/QUOTE]
But in PAD's mind it doesn't count when black people are murdered.
 
Of course not Quackzilla! I have yet to go outside and cut down the four I lynched last night from my tree.

When they're swinging so gracefully by the light of a burning cross you really hate to ruin the moment by removing them too early.

Thanks for reminding me to take care of that.
 
[quote name='camoor']So what. Surely you can't think that the biggest genocide in history was perpetrated against the Jewish people, and that since then we have not seen genocides that were bigger and just as horrific.

A day of remembrance should observe the fact that genocides happen in the modern world - however it's a much safer political move to pretend that this problem occured once in the first half of the 20th century ("Never again...") and that now it is somehow under control.[/QUOTE]

correct me if i'm wrong,but from what i see, it seems that you are pro-censorship, in other words turning a blind eye to whats going on in other parts of the world as long as it doesn't interfere with your personal political agenda
 
[quote name='Abdullah2']correct me if i'm wrong,but from what i see, it seems that you are pro-censorship, in other words turning a blind eye to whats going on in other parts of the world as long as it doesn't interfere with your personal political agenda[/QUOTE]

Actually I would prefer if US news actually showed what was happening abroad. I believe that a picture speaks a thousand words - and our sanitized media gives us a detached, clensed view of wars and famine in other countries.

If you are anti-censorship and for strenghtening the first amendment Abdullah, then I am on your side in this issue.
 
i get it , when you said its safer politically, you meant that to be from say the president's perspective if he only cared about his own politics

one more thing:
is a foreigner considered a noob in these boards?

edit: nm its not really the english language thats the barrier between us. its hidden or second meaning in what you say, and that can be in any language, so i guess i am a noob for not understanding
 
I will agree with all concerned on how our media sanitizes news images out of war zones and downplays the seriousness of the events.

I think today's example where 120 poor Iraqi's are killed and 500 wounded by a 500 lb. car bomb would absolutely horrify and magnify what soldiers are fighting and dying for in Iraq. It doesn't matter if the soldiers are Iraqi, American, British or any others. If the American public were fully aware of the attrocities commited by those opposed to Iraqi democracy they would demand full military measures be taken to defeat murderers of women and children as opposed to wanting a withdraw because all that is emphasized are American casualties.

I think in this case it's absolutely to de-sanitize the news efforts. I was watching NBC Nightly News and the only thing they showed were bodies under cover, a few walking wounded and a burned out car. None of the horror of the reality of the event was broadcast.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I will agree with all concerned on how our media sanitizes news images out of war zones and downplays the seriousness of the events.

I think today's example where 120 poor Iraqi's are killed and 500 wounded by a 500 lb. car bomb would absolutely horrify and magnify what soldiers are fighting and dying for in Iraq. It doesn't matter if the soldiers are Iraqi, American, British or any others. If the American public were fully aware of the attrocities commited by those opposed to Iraqi democracy they would demand full military measures be taken to defeat murderers of women and children as opposed to wanting a withdraw because all that is emphasized are American casualties.

I think in this case it's absolutely to de-sanitize the news efforts. I was watching NBC Nightly News and the only thing they showed were bodies under cover, a few walking wounded and a burned out car. None of the horror of the reality of the event was broadcast.[/QUOTE]

People will see it as part of the war, be horrified, and it will likely do little more than to rally people who want to pull out of Iraq.

Iraq resistance has strengthened, but in many ways become disconnected from its roots. Many true iraqi resistance fighters have separated themselves from its more terrorist elements (now more a domain of foreigners and extremists), and there have been instances where they've turned their guns on each other. In many ways the stronger extremist resistance groups have resulted in less real resistance, at least from what I can gather. But, if full military measure were used, you'd instantly strengthen legitimate resistance once again. Basically, anger seems directed at everyone, but we must do what we can do get Iraqis to work with us, and see the terrorist elements of resistance as the greater evil.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']elprinciple, there must be some error on your list. George Bush, the Republicans and the United States are nowhere to be found! Surely you have a list that can BLAME BUSH???[/QUOTE]

You must have me confused with camoor. ;)
 
[quote name='elprincipe']You must have me confused with camoor. ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry buddy, if there is a political group that I have a bone to pick with, it is the religious right. I have a pet peeve when I can't argue political policy in a rational and pragmatic manner with someone, because they read their position out of a 2,000 year-old sacred book that can never be wrong (except for the parts they ignore like rules about slavery) or just "know in their gut" that they are right (you and your position about abortion - where you accused us pro-choicers of being liars and charlatans who knew what we were advocating was morally wrong, and based that belief purely on your emotional reaction to the issue)
 
bread's done
Back
Top