Need some help from the CAG musicians (particularly bassists)

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EDiddy0042

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I've never been a very musically inclined person. I can listen to it all day, and my musical tastes range all the way from jazz and hip-hop to heavy metal and punk and just about anything in between, but as far as playing an instrument or singing, I guess it just wasn't in my genetics. So I'm deciding I would like to change that. I know it's early, but I am setting a goal to become a good electric bass guitar player by the end of the summer. As of right now, I'm not trying to do shows or start a band (although that might be a possibility in the future), and I'm not keeping my hopes up to be playing like Flea any time soon. Trouble is, I'm not quite sure where to start. I would mostly like to start by learning to play songs from my favorite bands (Tool, Type O Negative, Alice In Chains, Pantera, Primus, Carnivore, Misfits) so it will mostly be hard rock/punk/metal. So this is where I come to ask for help from any CAG's with musical talent.

What would be a good brand of bass guitar to start with, and what price range should I be looking for? Should I purchase a new one, or try and locate a nice used one from a shop or craigslist? I've been told that to get a solid, good sounding starting bass guitar to expect to pay somewhere around the $300.00 mark. I know that I will also need an amp, so I'm assuming that $500.00 to $600.00 would be a good mark to shoot for in getting everything I need.

Again, any help that any of the talent on here could offer to an up and coming rock star (I'll give you props by name in all of my liner notes:lol:) would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
 
I started playing bass when I was twelve, and then switched to guitar when I was fourteen after an accident left my left arm with about 60% mobility. I couldn't play correctly because I couldn't bend my arm right to get to the top of the neck (plus, since I'm a bit short, it doesn't help.) Then, I went to drums around sixteen. I still play each instrument occasionally, but that's beside the point.

First off, setting a goal of the end of summer is pretty crazy, to be honest. Most people practice for years and years before they get to the point of being able to play with a band. Since you want to be a bassist, you do have to be able to keep up with the rest of the rhythm section.

Since you're getting started and don't know how it will go, definitely find a used bass. In all honesty, you should probably go for something cheap so you can just practice and see if it is something you can naturally pick up. A small practice amp would suffice too.

As for songs, just find some easier songs to play to start off with. Seeing your taste in music, I would say go back to the early part of the millennium and play some songs by bands that were popular radio-metal from the time. I say this, because it'll still be sort of what you're wanting to play, but it's usually a little easier to learn, since the music isn't really too proficient.

Maybe try Mudshovel by Staind, Polyamorous by Breaking Benjamin, Needles by Seether, No One by Cold, Last Resort by Papa Roach... You might be groaning at this list, but it's fairly easy stuff to see if you can keep up or not. Heck, I'm sure you would be able to try some Misfits tracks too. But, if you're saying right off the bat that music just isn't in your genes and you expect to become a "good" bassist by the end of summer, you might get aggravated early on.
 
I used to play a little bit back in the day. Never got good at it so I don't play much anymore. I picked up a 5-string Cort on ebay for around $300 I think. They make a solid bass and sounds good. Definitely check out a guitar center if you have one near you, they have tons of instruments you can just try out. For the Amp check out Carvin. Sounds good and shouldn't be too expensive. It's what I have in my room right now. Hell if you lived in Washington I'd sell you all my stuff at a good price, but that's the setup I used when I played. Didn't cost much. I think all together was under $700. Of course I bought a lot of it on Ebay, but check out GC and get some quotes. They also run a website called musician's friend.
 
op didn't mention if he was left or right handed but god help you if you're left handed. music stores have absolutely shit selection when it comes to left handed instruments. guitar centers especially. unless you want the most popular (overpriced) instruments, you pretty much have to buy from someone else or chance a blind buy and order your instrument from the manufacturer.

on the plus side, since left handers are rare, it is very easy to negotiate on the price if you're comfortable doing so. many stores have had their lefty stock for a long time and are willing to make a deal to shift it.

learning to play by picking songs you like is a good idea, it will keep you interested in the music and you'll feel "cool" being able to play something. but when you're learning songs make sure to pay attention to whats going on with the music too. you'll notice trends and that certain note clusters provide a certain sound and get a feel for the scales without actually learning them. a lot of it will just click naturally after awhile, but if you're looking out for it, it will come quicker. i think its best to supplement playing with theory and study, but its not a realistic approach for many people.
 
Vulgarism- thanks for the advice. As I said, I've never played a musical instrument before in my life, so I don't even have a concept of how long it takes to learn the basics. So maybe I'll switch that goal to getting a grasp on it by the end of the summer and then going from there. Now when you say cheap, besides finding something used, are you talking about Target or Wal-Mart cheap? Or should I invest in something a little bit of a higher quality? As for the songs you mentioned, I'm fine with those. I am very open minded to any kind of music, and since I am actually going to be playing the stuff I will definitely keep in mind to give those a try.

DV8- yeah, unfortunately I don't live in Washington, or I would definitely take you up on that offer. I will look into the Cort guitars and the Carvin amps. thanks.

Crystalklear64- haha. I am right handed. As far as the music goes, lately I've been looking up youtube videos of some of the songs from the bands I've mentioned and just looked for people playing the bass lines of the song. That's what I've heard before in regards to developing an ear for the sound without ever having to really learn all the technical stuff. As far as theory and study, would you recommend picking up a "bass guitar for dummies" guide? Or should I invest in formal lessons?

Wombat- thanks for the input on the guitar brand. I'll keep the Fender Jazz in mind.
 
I'm a self taught drummer, not a bassist, but I've tooled around on bass, guitar, and piano enough to give some advice.

- Definitely get a decent bass as others have mentioned, nothing too expensive. Fender Jazz would be perfect.

- Pick up some beginner books, learn the basics, notes, chords, rhythms, etc. You have to learn to walk before you can run, after all. Everyone is a beginner at some point.

- Get a metronome or use a free metronome program, play along with it. You're playing bass, so you'll want to have a steady tempo, and develop a feel for it. Try Tempoperfect, it's free, just watch out for the toolbar installation shit. I hate toolbars. :bomb:

- Don't slack on practice, keep at it, develop skills and hand strength. And remember, you will feel like you suck at first and at various times. Just keep at it. Muscle memory and coordination take time to develop.

- One way I learned to play drums was playing with my guitarist friend. Once you get good enough to keep up with others, then play with them as often as you can. Just jam, try to cover songs, write new stuff, etc. Keep pushing yourself and you'll be surprised at what you can do.

Keep on rocking.
 
Do you have any friends or family members that play guitar or bass that can help you shop? You can find great deals on craigslist, but you can also find awful instruments. If you don't know anyone who can help you out, it might be better to go to a store. Hopefully you'll find a great salesperson that can help you out.

You'll want to make sure that you find a bass with a good neck and frets. You don't want a bass with a wonky neck and a high action (which is the distance between the frets and strings), because it will be a bear to play. The action is adjustable, but it's good to start out with a bass that's set up well.

A Fender Jazz is a great bass. They're easy to find and relatively inexpensive. They hold their value well. Also, if you do join or start a band, a Fender Jazz is a respected bass. You won't be embarrassed to perform with one. So, unless you think they're just ugly, I agree with everyone that suggested a Fender Jazz.

For the amp - I think you should decide what you need. Do you want a little practice amp with headphone outputs for using in your apartment/condo/house? Or do you want a big amp that you can eventually use with a band? A small practice amp just won't cut it if you want to play with a drummer and guitarist or two.
 
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I would suggest the lower end Ibanez Soundgear basses to start. They sound decent enough and you're not going to be able to get a good Fender Jazz for your first bass unless you're over investing to start with.

For an amp, the Fender Bassmaster 50 watter is one of the best deals going. Find a used one that isn't full of cat pee and you'll be happy for at least a couple of years.

For learning, just lookup lessons on youtube and Bassmasta. It's amazing how much is out there on the web...

One final thing, never, NEVER play with a pick. Your fingers are much more dynamic and you'll end up dropping the pick if you want to slap/pop like Flea or anyone.
 
Don't just blindly go buying a bass, either. A Fender is great but you may end up not liking it, maybe you'll find the neck on a Fender too thick like I do or you want something lighter. Go play all of them that you can and find the one that works best, it might be a Fender or Ibanez or maybe something that nobody here has mentioned. I'd also recommend looking at a Schecter. If it's a good instrument in good shape, it doesn't hardly matter whether it's new or used.

$500 for an amp is pretty generous unless you're looking for something heavy-duty to eventually play on stage. If that's what you want, go for it, but if you just need a practice amp for now, you might want to slide a couple hundred of that to your guitar fund. Remember, you get what you pay for, and I think that saying applies best to music. You're better off spending more now than buying a cheap guitar you have to get fixed all the time.

[quote name='hankmecrankme']- Don't slack on practice, keep at it, develop skills and hand strength. And remember, you will feel like you suck at first and at various times.[/QUOTE]

I've been playing for 11 years and I still feel like I suck.

Also, don't try to be Les Claypool instantly, it just makes you mad when you can't do it. I think a great CD to play along with is Toxicity by System of a Down. Misfits would be good for speed, too, especially anything off of Earth AD. Probably the most important thing about learning songs is to never, ever stop having fun doing it.
 
[quote name='Survivalism']Don't just blindly go buying a bass, either. A Fender is great but you may end up not liking it, maybe you'll find the neck on a Fender too thick like I do or you want something lighter. Go play all of them that you can and find the one that works best, it might be a Fender or Ibanez or maybe something that nobody here has mentioned. I'd also recommend looking at a Schecter. If it's a good instrument in good shape, it doesn't hardly matter whether it's new or used.
[/QUOTE]

The best advice for shopping for a musical instrument is, of course, to play a bunch yourself and pick the one that feels and sounds the best to you. But it's really difficult for a total beginner to try out anything - they don't know how to play yet!
 
How serious do you want to be about playing? Its not all that hard to pick up a bass, learn to read a tab, then learn to play various songs. The problem with tabs on the internet is they're just anyone's guess and may not sound right if you play along to a song. You'll be playing correctly but not getting the result you want so that will be frustrating.

But if you're serious about wanting to do good sounding jams or ever playing original music you need to learn various timing, where the notes are on the instrument, scales, chord progressions, music theory, etc. For that I'd suggest buying a couple of books and or instructional DVDs (maybe theres good videos on the internet?) if you're not going to pay for lessons. You can probably learn most of that stuff by not learning how to read musical notation, but I'd imagine learning to read musical notation wouldn't hurt either. Then again most song books these days have Tabs along with real musical notation so maybe that doesn't matter.

You're not going to be Flea or Les Claypool by the end of the summer, that's for sure. Be prepared to really change the way your fretting hand works. If you've already got big hands and are able to spread your fingers out wide, then you're going to have an easier time with playing. Otherwise you're going to have to do exercises with your hand to get it into shape to play well. Some people act like learning to play by slapping isn't hard but I don't think thats true. Playing with a pick will be sufficient for most rock songs. You can even get nifty picks that are thick and rubbery that give you more of a natural sound to your playing. You should still learn to play with just your fingers though and to get really proficient at that method is going to take a lot of work as well.

To be honest you'd probably be fine with one of those Squier beginner bases with the practice amp. Unless you're already planning on jamming with other musicians, those practice amps are more than enough to get the job done. They won't cut it in a room with a drummer and larger guitar amps though. And yeah the bass isn't top quality but the sound will be okay enough and the combo packs are fairly cheap. It'll be more than sufficient for sitting in your house learning to play.

If you think Squiers are shit for whatever reason, then go buy a used Fender basic P-Bass or J-Bass and find an amp that's a step up from the basic practice amps. You could probably get the same stuff new for $600, but in case this whole bass playing thing doesn't work out for you, you won't be pissed you paid $600 for all this new gear.
 
gotta agree with the above poster. i know many people will disagree, but to me the more expensive instruments never change too much about the sound. its more about having a different feel. your amp, technique, strings, pick-ups, and effects make so much more of a difference. so as long as you're not getting something with razorblades embedded in the edge of the neck, or something with a wonky neck, you'll be fine with any bass (that is still functioning).

of course, you'll still want to get something that is going to make you want to pick it up and play it, but don't worry too much about it.
now for example, i started with a johnson strat ("shitty" starter guitar) combo, moved on to an epi lp with a fender bullet 150, and current using a godin exit 22 with a peavy classic 30. i enjoyed playing them all and they never sounded too different from each other. it was mainly the feel of the construction. the lp was ridiculously heavy with its defined edges that poked into my sides while playing sitting down (not a problem standing), the strat was plasticy and light (felt cheap), and the godin is a nice all wood finish that came with a well polished neck (light but feels solid). a simple replacement of strings and the right settings on the amp, and it would be very difficult to tell these guitars apart by sound alone. the strat sounded a little fuzzy from dirt in the volume pot, and the lp would hold a note longer, but its just minor things.

so what i'm saying is, don't worry about getting something cheap as long as you'll still play it. you'll probably get a fondness for it and go back and play it if and when you decided to get something new.
 
Kip Winger was a bassist.

kip%20winger.jpg
 
My older brother plays the guitar and said that next time I came home from school he would take me to a little, privately owned music shop in my hometown where he has a good relationship with the owner. He said the guy is very trustworthy and would be able to help me picking the right instrument and amp.

I'm not overly concerned about the cost as I'm currently working part-time while at school, but as kodave pointed out, I'd rather not shell out a couple weeks worth of pay for something which I'm not going to like doing long-term, so I'll keep my options open.

My hands are pretty big, so as far as the frets go, I think that once I get the technique down of shifting my fingers around I'll be alright.

As of right now, I'm just trying to get myself started on playing an instrument. The extent of my performances are going to be very basic jam sessions in the garage with my brother. Eventually, though, I would like to move on to actually performing at bars and stuff, but I know that's several years off.

As far as picking, I've heard and seen many mixed opinions. Some people say that you shouldn't use a pick at all (not sure why), and I've also heard that picks work extremely well, particularly for playing heavier songs. Is it more so one of those things that is an individual preference, or is there actually validity to either (or both) of the above mentioned viewpoints?

One other question I forgot to bring up in my original post was in regards to the number of strings I should look for. I'm assuming that, considering this is my first instrument, I should keep it as simple as possible by going for a four-string. But what is the difference between a 4, 5 or even 6 string bass? I'm not trying to buy a 5 or 6 string, but this is more so just for being generally informed.

Thanks again everyone. All of your input is greatly appreciated.

[quote name='Number83']Kip Winger was a bassist.

kip%20winger.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Haha! That's EXACTLY the look I'm going for.
 
Definitely start out small. You don't want to spend a bunch of money then end up hating it. Go with your brother to the music store and just mess around with the cheap stuff they have. When I bought my first bass 8 years ago, I didn't know what I was doing. I picked up a few and decided on an Ibanez something or other, it was like $200, and a 35 watt Fender amp for $150. I figured for that price I could get something a bit better than the Squier starter pack and it all served me well until I upgraded. A Fender Jazz is very nice, I have one now, but it plays differently from an Ibanez.

5 string basses are nice, I have one of them too, you get that extra B string for your super low note that a lot of metal bands use. But definitely start on a 4 string, I play my 4 string a lot more than the 5. I've never played a 6 but it looks pretty challenging.

Primus is my favorite band and Les got me to want to start playing bass but I'm gonna tell you right now, don't, DON'T try and play any of his stuff right away. You'll want to throw all your shit out the window because he's a god. I started out with Metallica and Rage Against The Machine, they're relatively simple but Metallica can be pretty fast.

As for the pick vs. finger thing, I play with both. I do enjoy playing with my fingers more, I feel I get more control out of them. You do get a different sound out of a pick, but it's mostly personal preference unless you're trying to sound like a specific band/song. I can't get any Tool songs to sound right using my fingers, I have to use a pick (and the right effects).

Playing an instrument is a very fun and ultimately rewarding hobby, I wish I got into this a long time ago and not when I was 18. I don't play as much anymore because I just don't have the time. You do have to devote a lot time if you're at all serious about it, so be prepared for that. Practice, practice, practice. Good luck with it!
 
I play the Guitar, and Drums proficiently, and a few other instruments on a basic level.

As for the bass I'd say go to Sam Ash or Guitar Center and pick up one of those cheap beginner bundles, that come with a Bass, Amp, Picks, Straps, Cables, etc... They are inexpensive and effective. It won't be the greatest instrument in the world, but you don't need a great bass for at least something like a year minimum. When you become proficient then get an expensive bass.

Furthermore before you pick up a bass at all I'd go take some music lessons, not bass playing lessons, music lessons. Guitar type instruments have tablature that you can use, but being able to read sheet music, acquiring perfect pitch, and being able to sight read, etc.. is very important, but also tedious and hard to learn, so start early.

As for what songs to learn http://www.songsterr.com/ the songs are sorted from beginner to intermediate to advanced, it's a good place to start. Ultimate Guitar also has a Top 100 page that you can reference, even if the tab is for guitar, sometimes you can see the bass line in it. RHCP "Under The Bridge" has one of my favorite bass lines, although I play it on the guitar together with the guitar part. Hit me up if you have other questions.
 
tcrash247: Yeah, Les Claypool is a damn fine bassist. I was listening to Primus earlier today, and just trying to follow his playing without an instrument in my hand is hard enough, so I can't imagine trying to pull any of that off any time soon, but I will definitely use him as one of my models later down the road. Thanks for the clarification on the 4 vs 5 vs 6 string basses, and I think I will definitely shoot for a four string for now. I'm excited to get started on this.

DoubleEcksZero: I'll have to try and locate a place that teaches music lessons. Also, I like that web link you posted. I'll be using that as a resort to learn new tunes, and its nice that it has all the tabs separated by instrument too.
 
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