No bots in Halo 2

Kaijufan

Kaijufan

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Its been confirmed by Frankie in a Q&A that there will be no bots in Halo 2. :cry:
I quite simply cant get broadband (my parents wont get it, and I dont make enough money during the school year to pay for it), and Im never able to have Halo LAN parties. Im very disapointed by Bungie.
 
Yeah this is disappointing. But its easy to say why don't they just put bots in it. I don't think bots have ever been done right in any game and it would just degrade the greatness of the game.
 
It says in the offical Halo 2 FAQ that Bungie is trying to figure out ways to make multiplayer games more enjoyable for people with 2 controllers and no Live, so they better be working on something.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']Anyone else think that Microsoft told Bungie not to put bots in because they wanted more people to join Xbox Live?[/quote]I was about to say that. :)

Much more people will subscribe to XBL to be able to play Halo 2 multiplayer and campaign mode as much as possible and to be able to play with good players across the world is just too much to resist and they will feel required to atleast try XBL out.
 
Not too much a surprise. I'm sure it wasn't a HUGE demand feature, (although it did have some demand), so they just axed it. I'm not affected, as I have Broadband, but I feel for those who don't. Petition Bungie to put it in, or something. Sorry..
 
Personally I don't care about bots. On so many games, bots are either added as an afterthought or are focused on so that other areas suffer. The Halo crew just decided to not go halfass at this. Of course it doesn't hurt that the multiplayer will help sell XBox Live.
 
I'm glad it doesn't have bots... I'd rather play with all humans. Game I play the most on XBL is Mechassault, and it doesn't have bots either. The players that want better stats will just hide behind bots and its hard to get them to do what you want.

If they put bots on system link or local xbox multiplayer, I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't want them on XBL.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I'm glad it doesn't have bots... I'd rather play with all humans. Game I play the most on XBL is Mechassault, and it doesn't have bots either. The players that want better stats will just hide behind bots and its hard to get them to do what you want.

If they put bots on system link or local xbox multiplayer, I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't want them on XBL.[/quote]

I dont think anyone wants it on XBL, no point really, I mean there are actually people to play with. Im just annoyed its not there for system link or splitscreen. I always loved playing CTF with all my friends against the bots or team deathmatch. Its great in timesplitters when you can add up to 16 bots.
 
I'm a bit behind on the Halo 2 news... will this game still support 4-players on one sytem (split-screen) or is the multiplayer ONLY through Xbox live? I have every intention of getting Xbox live, but that would suck if you can't just play with a few friends in the same room anymore.
 
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if no bots in Halo 2 for you is like being told there is no Santa Claus. Come on, its not a big deal.
 
It is a big deal to those who have no access to Live and those who want to practice before going online.

The fact that other console games (Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, Red Faction 2) have bots means that Halo (with it's record sales) has more than enough capitial to add some bot programming in their game. It doesn't even have to be as thorough as in Perfect Dark.

That won't stop me from getting it though.

It's very similar to Create-A-Wrestler being omitted in the first Def Jam game. People said they wanted it and EA listened and put it in the sequel. The majority of people wanted bots after the first Halo and they should be put in the second game. Of course Halo has no real competion on Xbox (maybe Killzone on PS2 could steal some of its thunder but I'll reserve judgement until the game in actually out) so they can do what they want but that is a bad way to do business in the long run.
 
wtf! no bots! what is wrong with them? Perfect Dark, Timesplitters etc. all had bots, and it made the game so much better in multiplayer. No matter how many people played, there were still tons of players. They even put bots in some homebrewed levels for HALO for xbox, so it can't be that hard for Bungie to do.
 
Yeah that is pretty disappointing. At least for us non-live xbox owners. I hope this cutting of features doesn't become a trend for Halo 2.
 
[quote name='ksuwild25']Yeah that is pretty disappointing. At least for us non-live xbox owners. I hope this cutting of features doesn't become a trend for Halo 2.[/quote]

It's a bit of a stretch to call it a "cut", as it was never planned to be implemented in the first place.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']It is a big deal to those who have no access to Live and those who want to practice before going online.

The fact that other console games (Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, Red Faction 2) have bots means that Halo (with it's record sales) has more than enough capitial to add some bot programming in their game. It doesn't even have to be as thorough as in Perfect Dark.

That won't stop me from getting it though.

It's very similar to Create-A-Wrestler being omitted in the first Def Jam game. People said they wanted it and EA listened and put it in the sequel. The majority of people wanted bots after the first Halo and they should be put in the second game. Of course Halo has no real competion on Xbox (maybe Killzone on PS2 could steal some of its thunder but I'll reserve judgement until the game in actually out) so they can do what they want but that is a bad way to do business in the long run.[/quote]

Bots are almost always a half-assed, tacked on feature for concole games. PD was a decent example of what to do, but I'm too bet that Bungie had a whole lot more work to do in programming Halo 2 than Rare did in PD. And for every PD bots option there's probably two Jedi Academy bots options.

Also, bots suck IMO, they rarely ever play like humans, so it's not really any practice for taking your game online other than aiming, which you can do in the campaign mode. If you don't have Live and want to play multiplayer, then you really need to get some friends people. I mean surely you all know some people that have an xbox and are buying Halo 2, if not get to know some, cuz playing against actual people is so much more fun. Plus, if you wanna play multiplayer by yourself, that's pretty lame. It's called multiplayer mode for a reason, you're supposed to have more than one player, if you want to play by yourself then you should play the campaign mode, that's why it's there. As for Killzone, I've checked some of my hopes at the door at least for multiplayer fun, cuz word is they aren't even going to have co-op play in it, hopefully that didn't get cut because of bots.
 
I agree that nothing beats playing Humans. Its just the fact that a lot of Halo fans wanted bots and they weren't implemented. That bothers me when a company doesn't even try to give the fans something they ask for, especially when the game has a HUGE fan base.

In the long run it is a small issue because more likely than not, the single-player mode will be fantastic as well as online.
 
I don't have Live and have never had an Xbox LAN party, so the most I've ever played multiplayer with on the X is 4. Even that can be pretty sparse for a FPS. Looks like XIII and Red Faction II will remain my main choices for multiplayer shooters. Bummer.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I'm glad it doesn't have bots... I'd rather play with all humans. Game I play the most on XBL is Mechassault, and it doesn't have bots either. The players that want better stats will just hide behind bots and its hard to get them to do what you want.

If they put bots on system link or local xbox multiplayer, I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't want them on XBL.[/quote]

Get the pun... 'bots' in mechassault ':lol:'

I know thats not funny so theres no need to tell me
 
[quote name='SneakyPenguin'] Just one more nail in a coffin that's already buried.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm sure Halo 2 is as good as dead and they shouldn't even bother bringing it out.

[quote name='CaseyRyback']Gordon and his crow bar still love you. I am sure he will more than make up for any disappiontment you may feel towards Halo 2.[/quote]

Actually, "Gordon and his crow bar" have been the most disappointing thing of all so far for me this year (and last) between careless employees having their accounts hacked and source code stolen, giving false hope and delaying the game constantly. The game was an amazing step forward at E3 2003. Now it's just another good looking shooter alongside Doom 3, UT2004, and Far Cry. And with the Unreal 3 engine stuff on the horizon, well...this has not been handled as well as a game of this magnitude should have been.

Besides, the two games aren't exactly the same thing...Halo always seemed to me more like a futuristic combat simulator or something, as opposed to Half-Life's adventure where you shoot at stuff along the way.

I'll buy Half-Life 2, but I'll probably wait until Day of Defeat: Source and/or DoD 2 shows up.

Anyway...

Bots? We don't need no stinkin' bots.
 
Well, one wouldn't think it by the posts on here, but I'll go so far as to say bots are going the way of the dodo. As online multiplayer becomes more common, the "multiplayer without ... you know ... multiple players" option is slowly becoming less relevant. The fact is, games are increasingly multiplayer-centric (Battlefield, Quake, Rainbow-Six, Counter-Strike, etc.) and bots are just woefully ineffective at faking the funk.

I think I figured that one out when I beat a team of seven bots in the first Timesplitters, each on their hardest "A.I." setting ... 50 - 2. I admit that the bots in Perfect Dark WERE pretty good ... but they still paled in comparison to having living people trying to outplay you.

And it also doesn't bother me that Bungie "ignored" its fan base, begging for bots. Developers are like politicians in our little democratic republic -- you elect them to tell you what to do. You don't make good games by popular fiat. All gamers seem to do sometimes is piss and moan about how Metroid should never be 3D, or Full Spectrum Warrior sucks because you can't shoot directly, or whatever. Thus, it's in the developer's best interests to just ignore 'em and make the best game they can.

In any event, if you really need to blow away computer controlled opponents, you can just run through Halo's single player again.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']
Bots are almost always a half-assed, tacked on feature for concole games. PD was a decent example of what to do, but I'm too bet that Bungie had a whole lot more work to do in programming Halo 2 than Rare did in PD. And for every PD bots option there's probably two Jedi Academy bots options.
[/quote]

1) Why do you say that? Halo is about as advanced for this generation as PD was for that generation. Just because it was a generation ago doesn't mean that it's any more or less complex to code for. Plus, we're talking about a quality game from a quality development house. To say that the bots in Halo would be more akin to Jedi Academy then PD is nonsensical. Bungie with Halo is much like Rare with PD. They take as much time as they need to polish their product to a vibrant sheen, and no less, so who's to say they'd half-ass their bots?

2) Is there some reason you're vehemently supporting the lack of a feature that many people would love to take advantage of? It's been shown that Bungie can craft some killer AI. Imagine that AI applied to the already great PD bots, throw in those great co-op challenges, and DAMN you've got a great feature. I spent just as much time in the deathmatch modes in PD as I did trying to complete challenges with my friends. Just because online is the new fad doesn't mean that great offline features should be passed over.
 
[quote name='rocksolidaudio']you guys all seem to be ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of consoles gamers don't even play online.[/quote]
I agree. There are 15 million Xboxes sold, but only a million of those people are on Live.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if no bots in Halo 2 for you is like being told there is no Santa Claus. Come on, its not a big deal.[/quote]

Exactly. The last thing I'll be worried about when I get my copy of Halo 2 is multiplayer. Doesn't anyone just want to enjoy the single player story first??
 
[quote name='Jaxcomet'][quote name='dafoomie']I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if no bots in Halo 2 for you is like being told there is no Santa Claus. Come on, its not a big deal.[/quote]

Exactly. The last thing I'll be worried about when I get my copy of Halo 2 is multiplayer. Doesn't anyone just want to enjoy the single player story first??[/quote]
I cant wait to play the single player mode, but multiplayer is what keeps the game intresting after youve beat the game X number of times.
 
[quote name='WildWop'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell']
Bots are almost always a half-assed, tacked on feature for concole games. PD was a decent example of what to do, but I'm too bet that Bungie had a whole lot more work to do in programming Halo 2 than Rare did in PD. And for every PD bots option there's probably two Jedi Academy bots options.
[/quote]

1) Why do you say that? Halo is about as advanced for this generation as PD was for that generation. Just because it was a generation ago doesn't mean that it's any more or less complex to code for. Plus, we're talking about a quality game from a quality development house. To say that the bots in Halo would be more akin to Jedi Academy then PD is nonsensical. Bungie with Halo is much like Rare with PD. They take as much time as they need to polish their product to a vibrant sheen, and no less, so who's to say they'd half-ass their bots?

2) Is there some reason you're vehemently supporting the lack of a feature that many people would love to take advantage of? It's been shown that Bungie can craft some killer AI. Imagine that AI applied to the already great PD bots, throw in those great co-op challenges, and DAMN you've got a great feature. I spent just as much time in the deathmatch modes in PD as I did trying to complete challenges with my friends. Just because online is the new fad doesn't mean that great offline features should be passed over.[/quote]

1) Lets not forget that PD was a title that only had one kind of multiplayer, offline with 4 human players max. There was no system link, no Xbox live to deal with. That alone would make me think there'd be much more coding going on for Bungie, though I don't much about coding so I'll say I was probably wrong to say that and I'll shut up about it. However I didn't mean to say at all that Bungie would for sure half-ass the feature. I know they are some boss developers, I was refering to the fact that the majority of bots are done on the side and end up being half-assed for th efinal product. I can't say for certain that Bungie would've done the same, but I can't say for sure that they wouldn't have. Also, I don't think it's unfair to compare PD or Halo to Jedi Academy. If memory serves, Raven Software is actually a more experienced developer of 1st-person shooters than Bungie and Rare combined. Yet those bots still turned out bad, why probably because they didn't put hardly any effort towards them, and with all the work Bungie had to do implementing Live and System link play I doubt bots would've got much attention in Halo 2 either.

2) I'm not trying to support the lack of feature. My point is based upon the idea that if Bungie had to implement bots they either would've A) likely been half-assed or B) would've come at the cost of something else. You seem to trust Bungie as a good developer so why not trust their judgment on not including bots. Also, there's my person opinion that bots are worthless and never play like real people, or are nearly as fun, so what would be the point in spending the time and resources to put them into a game.
 
After thinking about it for a day or so, I guess I may be able to let the lack of bots slide. However, I was wondering, does anyone know if Halo 2 will support system link co-op play? Basically, in co-op my roommate and I would each like our own screen. So far the only game I have seen that supports this option is Serious Sam. Thanks.
 
hopefully they can add bots in a patch. i liked the bots in Perfect Dark too.

luckily, i'm at college now in a dorm, so i finally have broadband. dial-up sucks ass.
 
[quote name='The Gifuto']After thinking about it for a day or so, I guess I may be able to let the lack of bots slide. However, I was wondering, does anyone know if Halo 2 will support system link co-op play? Basically, in co-op my roommate and I would each like our own screen. So far the only game I have seen that supports this option is Serious Sam. Thanks.[/quote]

Rainbow Six 3 supports the same feature...though I dunno about Halo 2. RS 3 is damn addicting playing via system link/co-op though.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell'][quote name='The Gifuto']After thinking about it for a day or so, I guess I may be able to let the lack of bots slide. However, I was wondering, does anyone know if Halo 2 will support system link co-op play? Basically, in co-op my roommate and I would each like our own screen. So far the only game I have seen that supports this option is Serious Sam. Thanks.[/quote]

Rainbow Six 3 supports the same feature...though I dunno about Halo 2. RS 3 is damn addicting playing via system link/co-op though.[/quote]

Thanks, I may have to check it out this weekend. It's a damn fine option for those in a position to take advantage of it.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']
1) Lets not forget that PD was a title that only had one kind of multiplayer, offline with 4 human players max. There was no system link, no Xbox live to deal with. That alone would make me think there'd be much more coding going on for Bungie, though I don't much about coding so I'll say I was probably wrong to say that and I'll shut up about it. However I didn't mean to say at all that Bungie would for sure half-ass the feature. I know they are some boss developers, I was refering to the fact that the majority of bots are done on the side and end up being half-assed for th efinal product. I can't say for certain that Bungie would've done the same, but I can't say for sure that they wouldn't have. Also, I don't think it's unfair to compare PD or Halo to Jedi Academy. If memory serves, Raven Software is actually a more experienced developer of 1st-person shooters than Bungie and Rare combined. Yet those bots still turned out bad, why probably because they didn't put hardly any effort towards them, and with all the work Bungie had to do implementing Live and System link play I doubt bots would've got much attention in Halo 2 either.

2) I'm not trying to support the lack of feature. My point is based upon the idea that if Bungie had to implement bots they either would've A) likely been half-assed or B) would've come at the cost of something else. You seem to trust Bungie as a good developer so why not trust their judgment on not including bots. Also, there's my person opinion that bots are worthless and never play like real people, or are nearly as fun, so what would be the point in spending the time and resources to put them into a game.[/quote]

But the damn AI for the computer in the single player is so good! It's the only redeeming feature of a lackluster single player game, and would be so damn sweet if applied to bots. They'd probably be able to put together the most ridiculously human bots around, if they put the time to it. I'd be willing to wait another 6 months for some bots. I'd play challenges more then the single player, which I might play through twice if so compelled with co-op.
 
[quote name='pimp tyranny']hopefully they can add bots in a patch. i liked the bots in Perfect Dark too.
[/quote]
Having a patch for bots is a really good idea. I might have to start an online petition for that.
[quote name='WildWop']I'd be willing to wait another 6 months for some bots.[/quote]
I would also be willing to wait for bots.
 
[quote name='zewone']6 more months for bots. Forget that! I can do without them and if at all a better solution would be an online patch.[/quote]

A patch may not be sufficient if you add additional game modes that use the bots, which is what I'd want bots for. See also: Perfect Dark's challenges.
 
Seeing as how the Xbox has an 8 gig hard drive I would say that a patch is very doable. I doubt it would take up more then 100 MB.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']Seeing as how the Xbox has an 8 gig hard drive I would say that a patch is very doable. I doubt it would take up more then 100 MB.[/quote]

Something that extensive would probably require a fee to download. I'd rather wait another couple of months and pay $50 then pay $60. I've got enough games to play that the delay wouldn't kill me.
 
I don't think Microsoft and Bungie are ever going to consider missing out on holiday sales for bots, or to put anything in the game for that matter. A patch would be the most likely solution. Also, extensive downlaods aren't always $5-$10. Look at NG's hurricane packs. Though it being a Microsoft title they will likely charge $5 for some premium content as they like to call it.
 
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