rickonker
CAGiversary!
Obama supporters are either disappointed or in denial.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/09/state_secrets/
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/09/state_secrets/
Obama continues Bush policy on state secrets privilege
- Thread starter rickonker
- Start date
thrustbucket
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
Counting the seconds before we get the "Well it's only been a month, give him a chance" speach.
HovaEscobar
CAGiversary!
If any good can come out of this it could be teaching a generation to not trust a government so much, even if it's lead by a courageous young black guy. But they won't learn that.
OBAMA FOR YO MAMA
That being said, I was initially an Obama supporter but with the tax scandals, the stimulus, christ.
OBAMA FOR YO MAMA
That being said, I was initially an Obama supporter but with the tax scandals, the stimulus, christ.
he doesn't need anyone to make any excuses for him, he's doing a great job
more than anything, considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election.. i can't even think about a mccain/palin white house, i get too distressed before fully considering how tragic a situation we'd be in
more than anything, considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election.. i can't even think about a mccain/palin white house, i get too distressed before fully considering how tragic a situation we'd be in
rickonker
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Koggit']more than anything, considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election.. i can't even think about a mccain/palin white house, i get too distressed before fully considering how tragic a situation we'd be in[/QUOTE]
Why did you say "alternatives" if you think there was only one other?
Why did you say "alternatives" if you think there was only one other?
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='Koggit']considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election[/QUOTE]
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
thrustbucket
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='Koggit']
more than anything, considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election.. i can't even think about a mccain/palin white house, i get too distressed before fully considering how tragic a situation we'd be in[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't think we would have noticed a difference in a McCain/Palin white house to date. Except maybe a slightly smaller stimulus bill, and we wouldn't be scratching our heads about a promise of 48 hours all bills would be on the internet for the public to view that was broken, because the promise never would have been made.
That's the problem. Two teams of the same sport.
more than anything, considering our alternatives it's impossible for anyone to regret obama's election.. i can't even think about a mccain/palin white house, i get too distressed before fully considering how tragic a situation we'd be in[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't think we would have noticed a difference in a McCain/Palin white house to date. Except maybe a slightly smaller stimulus bill, and we wouldn't be scratching our heads about a promise of 48 hours all bills would be on the internet for the public to view that was broken, because the promise never would have been made.
That's the problem. Two teams of the same sport.
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
[quote name='KingBroly']SNL was watchable before?
If McCain won, we'd be going through the same bullshit right now, except with different people. It's just the truth of the matter.[/QUOTE]
SNL hasn't been watchable in more than a decade. You're right about McCain (or any other Democrat/Republican who could possibly have become president).
If McCain won, we'd be going through the same bullshit right now, except with different people. It's just the truth of the matter.[/QUOTE]
SNL hasn't been watchable in more than a decade. You're right about McCain (or any other Democrat/Republican who could possibly have become president).
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 34 (97%)
[quote name='elprincipe']Bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Guys, get off the third party crap. I'm tired of hearing so much paranoia and pissing about how ingrained and systemic the Ds/Rs are. I've said it before: ANY party that wants to be taken seriously at the federal level needs to get more involved in grassroots politics first. Local governments, state congresses, governorships, etc. Libertarians acting like Bob Barr was a (1) plausible or (2) good choice for president, just like Greens thinking that about whatever nutjob soothsayer they ran this year (Nader again?) - it's crap.
It's me wanting to try out for an NFL franchise with no established football experience at all. It's laughable, and makes all the sense in the world as to why it's taken with no seriousness.
Get involved locally first. Make your (L)s or (G)s redundant - something we see commonly on television interviews. Trying to enter a building at the top floor isn't going to be a route to success.
So, there were other candidates than Obama and McCain, but only delusions of grandeur lead you to think there were other candidates than Obama and McCain.
I'm disappointed with Obama here. Very much so. I'm disappointed that he nominated Judd Gregg (or whatever it was), who didn't deserve the position. I'm disappointed that Obama fell victim to the nonsensical idea of "bipartisanship" by giving the Republicans the tax cuts they wanted in the stimulus bill from the beginning, such that he had to add MORE (and cut more) to make it appear like he was being bipartisan. That maneuver really exposed his political naivete.
But let's keep this stuff in mind when we want to lambast him as being "liberal" or "socialist." Not that you use these phrases any more, but when you're tempted to, or when you read in the paper that he's the most liberal/socialist whatever of whatever - keep in mind that in three weeks he's proven himself to be staggeringly, and disappointingly, moderate.
Guys, get off the third party crap. I'm tired of hearing so much paranoia and pissing about how ingrained and systemic the Ds/Rs are. I've said it before: ANY party that wants to be taken seriously at the federal level needs to get more involved in grassroots politics first. Local governments, state congresses, governorships, etc. Libertarians acting like Bob Barr was a (1) plausible or (2) good choice for president, just like Greens thinking that about whatever nutjob soothsayer they ran this year (Nader again?) - it's crap.
It's me wanting to try out for an NFL franchise with no established football experience at all. It's laughable, and makes all the sense in the world as to why it's taken with no seriousness.
Get involved locally first. Make your (L)s or (G)s redundant - something we see commonly on television interviews. Trying to enter a building at the top floor isn't going to be a route to success.
So, there were other candidates than Obama and McCain, but only delusions of grandeur lead you to think there were other candidates than Obama and McCain.
I'm disappointed with Obama here. Very much so. I'm disappointed that he nominated Judd Gregg (or whatever it was), who didn't deserve the position. I'm disappointed that Obama fell victim to the nonsensical idea of "bipartisanship" by giving the Republicans the tax cuts they wanted in the stimulus bill from the beginning, such that he had to add MORE (and cut more) to make it appear like he was being bipartisan. That maneuver really exposed his political naivete.
But let's keep this stuff in mind when we want to lambast him as being "liberal" or "socialist." Not that you use these phrases any more, but when you're tempted to, or when you read in the paper that he's the most liberal/socialist whatever of whatever - keep in mind that in three weeks he's proven himself to be staggeringly, and disappointingly, moderate.
thrustbucket
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='mykevermin']
But let's keep this stuff in mind when we want to lambast him as being "liberal" or "socialist." Not that you use these phrases any more, but when you're tempted to, or when you read in the paper that he's the most liberal/socialist whatever of whatever - keep in mind that in three weeks he's proven himself to be staggeringly, and disappointingly, moderate.[/QUOTE]
What's interesting is many conservative /republicans have/had the exact same feelings about Bush.
I believe this is a giant red flag for exactly what is wrong with our system. Maybe it's because both parties are corrupt, I dunno. But whoever you get, they are going to move to the so-called "center" and disappoint. That's the true reason nothing ever really changes.
So all in all, both sides compromised on this stimulus package, which leads to neither side being very happy with it. But here we are 800 billion more in debt. Yay for democracy.
I think of Rep/Dem as two teams in a sport. People are sick of paying high ticket prices but they keep on rooting for one of the other teams, thinking that's going to change it, when it's really the league/arena to blame. Blame the sport, not a team.
I honestly and 100% believe that even if Sarah Palin were president, we'd get 75% - 85% of the exact same 4 years as with Obama. That's how rotten it all is. I know that will floor some, but that's how I view the "system".
But let's keep this stuff in mind when we want to lambast him as being "liberal" or "socialist." Not that you use these phrases any more, but when you're tempted to, or when you read in the paper that he's the most liberal/socialist whatever of whatever - keep in mind that in three weeks he's proven himself to be staggeringly, and disappointingly, moderate.[/QUOTE]
What's interesting is many conservative /republicans have/had the exact same feelings about Bush.
I believe this is a giant red flag for exactly what is wrong with our system. Maybe it's because both parties are corrupt, I dunno. But whoever you get, they are going to move to the so-called "center" and disappoint. That's the true reason nothing ever really changes.
So all in all, both sides compromised on this stimulus package, which leads to neither side being very happy with it. But here we are 800 billion more in debt. Yay for democracy.
I think of Rep/Dem as two teams in a sport. People are sick of paying high ticket prices but they keep on rooting for one of the other teams, thinking that's going to change it, when it's really the league/arena to blame. Blame the sport, not a team.
I honestly and 100% believe that even if Sarah Palin were president, we'd get 75% - 85% of the exact same 4 years as with Obama. That's how rotten it all is. I know that will floor some, but that's how I view the "system".
Thrust has pretty much nailed it.
Myke as much as I don't like Barr because he's former CIA I think he would've been a better choice then Obama and McCain. I voted for who Ron Paul backed because I agreed with a lot of their views. I wasn't with their Anti-Gay Marriage and Pro-Life stance however.
I really don't get how Goldwater got it with Pro-Life and Libertarians like yourself don't get it thrust. Whenever you state your feelings about Abortion you might as well state the woman forfeits her rights when she becomes pregnant and the babies rights take over. She's just a baby incubator now right?
Myke as much as I don't like Barr because he's former CIA I think he would've been a better choice then Obama and McCain. I voted for who Ron Paul backed because I agreed with a lot of their views. I wasn't with their Anti-Gay Marriage and Pro-Life stance however.
I really don't get how Goldwater got it with Pro-Life and Libertarians like yourself don't get it thrust. Whenever you state your feelings about Abortion you might as well state the woman forfeits her rights when she becomes pregnant and the babies rights take over. She's just a baby incubator now right?
elprincipe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 60 (100%)
Myke, I'm not for the LIbertarian Party or the Green Party or the Socialist Workers Party any more than I'm for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. I'm against all parties. Of course, this has nothing to do with the ludicrous claim that "you can't possibly regret Obama's election." I may as well say "you can't possibly disagree with the War on Terror (TM) without being unpatriotic."
rickonker
CAGiversary!
Get real, we have a two party system and that's it. A grassroots effort is going to lead to a third party victory? There are only two realistic chances for even a small difference in the winner: 1) A grassroots effort within one of the two major parties 2) A billionaire like Perot or Bloomberg
thrustbucket
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='Sarang01']
I really don't get how Goldwater got it with Pro-Life and Libertarians like yourself don't get it thrust. Whenever you state your feelings about Abortion you might as well state the woman forfeits her rights when she becomes pregnant and the babies rights take over. She's just a baby incubator now right?[/QUOTE]
What do you mean goldwater got it? What exactly do you think my stance is? And I am not a card carrying member libertarian, btw. I just happen to agree a lot with their views. Much like Ron Paul, who isn't a libertarian either.
When it comes to Abortion, or anything really, I believe it's the governments job to protect life first, choice second. Now you can make whatever laws you want about it as long as that priority is kept.
I'd simply much much much rather see government spending on lowering cost of adoption (I have a friend who just forked out 30k), streamlining the adoption process, and investing in programs that council women on their options and "help" that's out there than spending millions on planned parenthood and various programs and entities with population control agendas.
I am not necessarily FOR taking a womans right to kill her unborn child away. But I think the system is heavily skewed to encourage her to, and most women don't have the counciling or help with other alternatives they need outside of religiously funded orgs.
I really don't get how Goldwater got it with Pro-Life and Libertarians like yourself don't get it thrust. Whenever you state your feelings about Abortion you might as well state the woman forfeits her rights when she becomes pregnant and the babies rights take over. She's just a baby incubator now right?[/QUOTE]
What do you mean goldwater got it? What exactly do you think my stance is? And I am not a card carrying member libertarian, btw. I just happen to agree a lot with their views. Much like Ron Paul, who isn't a libertarian either.
When it comes to Abortion, or anything really, I believe it's the governments job to protect life first, choice second. Now you can make whatever laws you want about it as long as that priority is kept.
I'd simply much much much rather see government spending on lowering cost of adoption (I have a friend who just forked out 30k), streamlining the adoption process, and investing in programs that council women on their options and "help" that's out there than spending millions on planned parenthood and various programs and entities with population control agendas.
I am not necessarily FOR taking a womans right to kill her unborn child away. But I think the system is heavily skewed to encourage her to, and most women don't have the counciling or help with other alternatives they need outside of religiously funded orgs.
bread's done