OMG the goverment is shutting down. Now where will I get cheese from....

MSI Magus

MSI Magus

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Welp things are getting close to dead line and we do not have a topic about it yet. Do you guys think we will see a shut down tomorrow or will the Dems or Republicans blink? If we shut down who do you think will be blamed and how mad will the public be?

Personally my bet is on a shut down, Republicans being blamed, but the public at large shrugging and remaining ignorant of the shut down for the most part.
 
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Shut down is very likely at this point.

Republicans will definitely get the blame. Even Boehner has said that, with a quote the other day that a shut down would all be get Obama re-elected just like it helped Clinton in 1996.

It's easy for the Dems to spin it as they've given in and cut a good bit out of the original Obama budget proposal ($33 billion or whatever the current cut number is) so they can show the Republican's as playing the same old game and not being willing to compromise, to be pushing a social agenda at the expense of taking workers off the job, slowing the economic recovery, delaying tax returns etc., by refusing to move forward if things like Planned Parenthood funding aren't part of the cuts etc.

A shut down would definitely hurt the republicans more than the democrats image wise for sure.
 
White american welfare cheese is great with triscuts and wheat thins. I went to a day care that had bricks of them. It's the only cheese that I can eat that isn't on pizza...lolz.

Although, I think it'd be interesting to see how the republifucks spin this one. Everyone knows how impotent the dems like to act.
 
I really love the "I don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions at PP" line as it really shows how insane and unintelligent your average person has become in this country.

The Yahoo article has some incredibly awesome comments on it as well. Apparently none of the trrops will get their paychecks in a govt shutdown. More reasonable people know this is false but the lunatics flip out because Obama and Clinton hate the military so that's why they're fine with a shutdown. Now the troops have to fight for our freedom (wait, what?) without getting paid! I wish I could go and abort people who actually think like this. Things would get much nicer around here.
 
[quote name='nasum']I really love the "I don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions at PP" line as it really shows how insane and unintelligent your average person has become in this country.

The Yahoo article has some incredibly awesome comments on it as well. Apparently none of the trrops will get their paychecks in a govt shutdown. More reasonable people know this is false but the lunatics flip out because Obama and Clinton hate the military so that's why they're fine with a shutdown. Now the troops have to fight for our freedom (wait, what?) without getting paid! I wish I could go and abort people who actually think like this. Things would get much nicer around here.[/QUOTE]

I have seen both sides reported. That military will get pay checks and that they wont. Personally I am not flipping out about this at all, if anything I think it will be ammusing to watch my family. I have a lot of family that works for the government or is in the military. They all spend spend spend and treat us like we are crazy for saving a lot and investing a lot. They also tell me there is no need to worry about politics and I have been trying to warn them about this for months now(as well as the cuts that just recently laid off family members and cut others benefits). Now all of a sudden they are going to get hit out of left field because this time I didnt warn them and decided to let them find out all at once. Worst will be my mother and father in law who both work for the government.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Shut down is very likely at this point.

Republicans will definitely get the blame. Even Boehner has said that, with a quote the other day that a shut down would all be get Obama re-elected just like it helped Clinton in 1996.

It's easy for the Dems to spin it as they've given in and cut a good bit out of the original Obama budget proposal ($33 billion or whatever the current cut number is) so they can show the Republican's as playing the same old game and not being willing to compromise, to be pushing a social agenda at the expense of taking workers off the job, slowing the economic recovery, delaying tax returns etc., by refusing to move forward if things like Planned Parenthood funding aren't part of the cuts etc.

A shut down would definitely hurt the republicans more than the democrats image wise for sure.[/QUOTE]

That's not what got Clinton re-election though. What got Clinton re-election was the Republicans caving in 95, which caused a lot of people who voted for Republicans to not turn out and/or vote for Clinton because of the betrayal to the Contract with America. Yeah, the media will blame Republicans, but the Republicans don't control the majority of Congress or Government for that matter.
 
I mostly agree, after all it was Boehner's point, not mine. :D

Clinton also got re-elected as Dole was a terrible candidate.

That will likely help Obama as well as there's not a strong republican front runner, and the republican vote will get split off by tea partiers etc. who won't vote for someone like Romney who is more likely to get the nomination than someone like Palin.

And Clinton also won because the economy was doing great. Won't be doing great by 2012, but if it keeps improving that will help Obama as well. Unemployment is still high at 8.8% in March, but I think that was the lowest it's been in two years. So if trends like that continue, that will help democrats as well in arguing that the stimulus worked, things are improving etc.
 
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Don't forget IRS. Tax refund will be delay, and I know a lot of people are getting by because of their tax refund.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Military will get their paychecks, but they will may be delayed if there is a shutdown, and if so they'll get them in back pay after the government reopens. Still tough for military families that are living nearly paycheck to paycheck to support their kids etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/world/middleeast/08military.html?_r=1&hp[/QUOTE]

This is correct. I'm a Federal employee, so I'm following it closely. I'm considered essential personnel, so if the shut down does happen, I still have to come to work. I will get paid for it, but not until the budget is signed. So if it drug out for a month or so, I'm essentially working for free up until that point. I would then get paid retroactively. The military will be the same way.

So, it is true that the soldiers in the war zone won't be getting paid while the shutdown is in effect. They will get paid after though.

What is unknown is whether those Federal employees that get sent home during the shut down will get paid retroactively. They did in 95-96, but Obama has said that they won't this time. So if that is true, then it is good for me that I am essential personnel. If they do end up getting paid, then they all get free paid vacations while I still have to work. Bad for me. :(
 
[quote name='Lokki']So, it is true that the soldiers in the war zone won't be getting paid while the shutdown is in effect. They will get paid after though.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about that? Soldiers in combat zones were paid as normal 15 years ago, soldiers that were active but not in combat were paid normally as well. Administrative staff (non-uniform types that make sure the $2k hammers keep rolling in) go on furlough but get their pay afterwards.

Then there's also the issue that combat pay doesn't even come out of federal funds but that the money is already with the Army (or whatever branch) and will get paid by them until the funds run out (every 12 weeks I think it is, though I don't recall for sure) so unless the army decides to not pay the soldiers, it isn't the fault of the govt shutdown.
 
Thoughts on the Paul Ryan plan? Anyone think that regardless of if there is or isnt a shut down that Republicans will dig in on passing that budget plan next?
 
[quote name='nasum']Are you sure about that? Soldiers in combat zones were paid as normal 15 years ago, soldiers that were active but not in combat were paid normally as well. Administrative staff (non-uniform types that make sure the $2k hammers keep rolling in) go on furlough but get their pay afterwards.

Then there's also the issue that combat pay doesn't even come out of federal funds but that the money is already with the Army (or whatever branch) and will get paid by them until the funds run out (every 12 weeks I think it is, though I don't recall for sure) so unless the army decides to not pay the soldiers, it isn't the fault of the govt shutdown.[/QUOTE]


Not sure on specifics about combat troops. But the pay delay info came straight from Robert Gates--see the link I posted earlier.

But he also said "may" delay pay, and not definitely we will. Which is an important distinction.
 
Was just watching the news and there was an interview with Rep. Schweikert of AZ. They asked him if it was worth shutting the goverment down over a few billion dollars of womans choice and clean air disagreements. His response was "we have to save America and that means big cuts for the 2012 bill, if we can not pass these basic cuts in the 2011 bill then how can we save America" He basically went on to say they were drawing a line in the sand because Republicans are tired of being the ones to give in and if they do not take a stand now then 2012 and America is lost ;)
 
And comments like that are why it hurts the Republicans if there's a shut down. They're saying their not willing to give in, and citizens, military families etc. get hurt as a result.

Democrats can say they gave in by being willing to cut $33 billion or whatever off the original budget proposal.
 
Problem is that it only hurts Republicans if the message gets heard. The American public are largely ignorant and Democrats are always stupid cowards. Look at the way they tried to run from health care vs standing up and saying because of this bill your kids can stay on your insurance through college and you can not be denied for pre existing conditions. Instead they ran from the issue while Republicans made shit up. Good chance the shut down ends the same way, Republicans find a good way to spin things and scream and scream and scream while Democrats plug their ears and hide.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Not sure on specifics about combat troops. But the pay delay info came straight from Robert Gates--see the link I posted earlier.

But he also said "may" delay pay, and not definitely we will. Which is an important distinction.[/QUOTE]

That almost sounds like the guy has no idea... An even more important distinction.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']And comments like that are why it hurts the Republicans if there's a shut down. They're saying their not willing to give in, and citizens, military families etc. get hurt as a result.

Democrats can say they gave in by being willing to cut $33 billion or whatever off the original budget proposal.[/QUOTE]

Cutting .01% of the budget isn't much of a compromise. That's like a pack a day smoker saying they're going to smoke less and then smoke 1 less cigarette... for the year.

That being said, they should just pass that budget so they have plenty of time to talk about real changes to the budget next time. Trying to take a stand now will back fire on everyone. Instead of talking about real reforms we will get to hear spin on the shutdown until it's over.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Although, I think it'd be interesting to see how the republifucks spin this one. Everyone knows how impotent the dems like to act.[/QUOTE]

I listen to right wing radio and read right wing blogs (so you don't have to). The frame the right is using is that this is the Democrat Party's fault because they did not pass a budget in 2010 when they were in full command of the executive and legislative branches of government.

filibustersaywha? not that procedural blockages from the right matter, as they've set their frame on this being the D's fault for not passing "their own" budget in 2010.

facts don't fly in ideological warfare, I'm afraid. We'll become more divided in a partisan sense, but it's not like this will drive any birthers to the center politically. It will alienate some moderates, but that's not going to be influenced by facts, but by how well one party gets their message out.

[quote name='Lokki']If they do end up getting paid, then they all get free paid vacations while I still have to work. Bad for me. :([/QUOTE]

I suppose. But knowing you're getting paid (eventually) for what you do is hella comforting - given that most American households are a few missing paychecks shy of bankruptcy, I wouldn't call it a vacation. They ain't workin, but they'll largely be stressing for certain.

The supercynical part of me would love to see the shut down in action for 2 weeks or more. fuck those on the right, I can't wait to see you reap what you sow.
 
And now Yahoo's front page has a feature about overpaid federal workers making 2x the $$ that the average private sector employee makes. Now if this isn't the most IDEAL factoid to bandy about in terms of federal pay I don't know what is. Why is it double? Well, politicians make that average amount for one... But in reality, the Fed hires the cream of the crop more or less and it's mostly professional positions. To put it simply, there is no Burger King being run by the Fed, ergo for every one fed employee making $250k doing something useful you need a few thousand minimum wage jobs to counter balance that to get to $60k.
People on the right don't want to do the math to find that simple conclusion, they get the soundbite of 2x pay and go to anger mode.
People on the left can't take the 45 seconds necessary to explain that because it doesn't fit within our soundbite news structure.

I'd like to make a party called the Obfuscationists, god knows we'd win every time...
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Cutting .01% of the budget isn't much of a compromise. That's like a pack a day smoker saying they're going to smoke less and then smoke 1 less cigarette... for the year.

That being said, they should just pass that budget so they have plenty of time to talk about real changes to the budget next time. Trying to take a stand now will back fire on everyone. Instead of talking about real reforms we will get to hear spin on the shutdown until it's over.[/QUOTE]

Compromise is not about doing the right thing(and that most of us here disagree with you on what the right thing is should tell you something). Compromise is about two sides having an argument and finding a common ground to stand on or at least a position where you can meet the other. It would not matter if they cut 0.1% or 100%, it would not make it a compromise less both sides gave up something and agreed ultimately.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Was just watching the news and there was an interview with Rep. Schweikert of AZ. They asked him if it was worth shutting the goverment down over a few billion dollars of womans choice and clean air disagreements. His response was "we have to save America and that means big cuts for the 2012 bill, if we can not pass these basic cuts in the 2011 bill then how can we save America" He basically went on to say they were drawing a line in the sand because Republicans are tired of being the ones to give in and if they do not take a stand now then 2012 and America is lost ;)[/QUOTE]
Conservatives are the biggest fucking drama queens I've ever seen. The U.S. is always on the precipice of destruction.
 
[quote name='KoolFreebies']If Canada ever attacks, now's the time.[/QUOTE]
Not really.

Our government's shut down, too. It's election time.
 
Canada won't attack in summer anyway, ice skates don't work that well on pavement.;)
 
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[quote name='nasum']And now Yahoo's front page has a feature about overpaid federal workers making 2x the $$ that the average private sector employee makes. Now if this isn't the most IDEAL factoid to bandy about in terms of federal pay I don't know what is. Why is it double? Well, politicians make that average amount for one... But in reality, the Fed hires the cream of the crop more or less and it's mostly professional positions. To put it simply, there is no Burger King being run by the Fed, ergo for every one fed employee making $250k doing something useful you need a few thousand minimum wage jobs to counter balance that to get to $60k.
People on the right don't want to do the math to find that simple conclusion, they get the soundbite of 2x pay and go to anger mode.
People on the left can't take the 45 seconds necessary to explain that because it doesn't fit within our soundbite news structure.

I'd like to make a party called the Obfuscationists, god knows we'd win every time...[/QUOTE]


Yep, just a BS point based on a biased and misleading look at data. There are very few times you'll find the public employee makes more money than the average person in the private sector doing the same job does--which is the only comparison that matters.

As I said before, often times public jobs have better job security and sometimes (but not always) better benefit packages, but the pay is almost always less than what one could make in the private sector doing the same type of job.
 
These yokels can't even come up with a budget and we expect them to fix health care and the economy? I blame both sides, the Democrats for continuing to bloat the budget with expanding entitlement programs we can't afford and Republicans for holding the economy hostage out of pettiness.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I listen to right wing radio and read right wing blogs (so you don't have to). The frame the right is using is that this is the Democrat Party's fault because they did not pass a budget in 2010 when they were in full command of the executive and legislative branches of government.

filibustersaywha? not that procedural blockages from the right matter, as they've set their frame on this being the D's fault for not passing "their own" budget in 2010.[/QUOTE]

+1 for calling it the Democrat party, that's what they keep calling it even though it isn't correct.

You'd think they'd be *glad* Obama/Pelosi/Reid didn't pass a budget in 2010, since they're a buncha Spendocrat Thuggish Chicago Thugs who spend spend spend. Now that the Republicans are actually in charge they can put a stop to Obama's Big Gov't agenda. I'm surprised they're not happy about that.
 
I'm honestly surprised they don't just start arguing about the next budget. Whether they pass the budget or not the checks will still be signed. But it could've easily been passed last year especially during the Lame Duck period which gave the Democrats a lot of stuff passed.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Compromise is not about doing the right thing(and that most of us here disagree with you on what the right thing is should tell you something). Compromise is about two sides having an argument and finding a common ground to stand on or at least a position where you can meet the other. It would not matter if they cut 0.1% or 100%, it would not make it a compromise less both sides gave up something and agreed ultimately.[/QUOTE]

Cool, you've just given me a little less hope in America.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']That being said, they should just pass that budget so they have plenty of time to talk about real changes to the budget next time. Trying to take a stand now will back fire on everyone. Instead of talking about real reforms we will get to hear spin on the shutdown until it's over.[/QUOTE]

It seems like they're always talking about make the "real changes" "next time" though...
 
Fun fact: When was the last time the House flipped to Republican during a Democratic President that did not result in a federal government shut down?

1947
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Fun fact: When was the last time the House flipped to Republican during a Democratic President that did not result in a federal government shut down?

1947
[/QUOTE]

Again its because Republicans are a bunch of spoiled brats used to getting their own way. Democrats are the parents too lazy and scared to do the right thing that forces the child to accept whats needed to be done. One side tosses a tantrum the other side gives in, things turn to shit, Republicans blame Democrats and get reelected to a majority, further run things in to the ground which gets Democrats reelected and it all repeats.
 
Reid says that they have worked past the EPA issues and the only thing left on the table is Abortion rights. He says Republicans are insisting that there will be no deal with out the allowance of the cuts/riders for abortion issues.
 
"Republicans want to shut down the government because they think there's nothing more important than keeping women from getting cancer screenings. This is indefensible and everyone should be outraged," Reid said on the Senate floor.

And cancer screenings.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']"Republicans want to shut down the government because they think there's nothing more important than keeping women from getting cancer screenings. This is indefensible and everyone should be outraged," Reid said on the Senate floor.

And cancer screenings.[/QUOTE]

See that seems more like rhetoric then reality though. The abortion thing as stupid as it seems I imagine is true and it sounds true from what Republicans are saying. The cancer thing seems more like something that is technically true but not something Republicans are out to do per say.
 
The issue is there's already a ban on using any federal funds for abortions. So federal funding to planned parenthood goes to their other services. Conservatives don't like it because abortion is a service assisted with even if not funded with tax dollars, and those services provided include counseling which includes discussing abortion as an option.
 
you'd think abortion would be awesome since it might help to cull the population of those undesireable welfare babies?

Yeah, I never understood the every child needs to grow up, but only if it... I don't know what it to be honest, but there's definitely an it there.
 
The thing that surprises me about the abortion issue is that, at least politically, most of those with an opinion on it aren't even women. Now granted we have more male politicians, but still.

But yeah, I'm getting really sick of this misconception that federal money pays for abortions.
 
Here's a chart I found on the Washingto Post site in Ezra Klein's blog that shows a break down of what planned parent hood does. Abortion services are 3% of their operations. So on top of the fact that no federal funds can go toward those services, it's a small part of their role anyway.

plannedparenthood.jpg
 
well contraceptives are just as bad as an abortion because it prevents an abortable fetus right?

if someone can find the youtube video for Mr. Show's "Mr. Pickles Funtime Abortion Clinic, We Bring Out The Kid In Ya" I'll award you three points.
 
[quote name='nasum']you'd think abortion would be awesome since it might help to cull the population of those undesireable welfare babies?

Yeah, I never understood the every child needs to grow up, but only if it... I don't know what it to be honest, but there's definitely an it there.[/QUOTE]
The problem is those are not the ones getting abortions. They won't do that because it will not increase their take it out of your pocket pay.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The issue is there's already a ban on using any federal funds for abortions. So federal funding to planned parenthood goes to their other services.[/QUOTE]

I seem to recall a thread awhile ago where people were picking on Texas for using Federal Stimulus money in a similar shell game.

"What, we have to use this money in one particular way? Okay, we'll divert the money we were going to spend that way towards the other things we want."

The entire "Republicans don't want cancer screenings" reminds me of the "Democrats want to give Viagara to sexual predators."

[quote name='Clak']The thing that surprises me about the abortion issue is that, at least politically, most of those with an opinion on it aren't even women.[/QUOTE]

Pretend, for a moment, that you 100% believe life begins at conception. That a fetus in the womb is equal to a baby outside of the womb. Now, a woman says "Hey, I want to kill this baby." For the purpose of this post, I'm not going to define status of the baby (i.e. born or unborn) as, again, you're pretending that they are equal. Are you not allowed to object to this woman who wants to kill her baby (which may or may not be born) because you have a penis?
 
I, for one, would welcome the government shutdown if it seriously meant that military folks would be working without getting paid. Those are just the kind of abysmal conditions we need to kick out all of the excuse makers and impotent traitors which currently hold the reigns of America. :D
 
If history has taught us anything, it's that you never stiff the troops.

I just find it laughable that they are putting the country through the wringer over a measly $40 billion dollars. Considering that the national debt is over $14 trillion, that's not even a drop in the bucket. Imagine what will happen when the government is forced to make real cuts.... or worse announces that we've defaulted on our debt.
 
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