Party of Suffering also proves it doesn't really care about the court system

[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']All I've heard is her husband, who clearly isn't going to state otherwise. Frankly if all this evidence this denying her wishes existed as you say this would've ended years ago.[/quote]

You are 100% wrong. It is clear that it was her wish not to have her life continue like this, every single court has determined that. The only reason this has dragged out so long is because of her attention-whore parents and the Republican party's love affair with the Christian Right.
 
Actually, there isn't a whole lot of evidence that Terri would want the plug pulled. It simply that that's all the evidence there is, and according to Florida state law, that evidence is more than sufficient. For all the legal wrangling that Jeb Bush has done over this case, including the utterly RIDICULOUS motion to try to become her legal guardian (wonder if he'd mind paying her medical bills while she rots in a bed for the next 30+ years, too?), as far as I know he hasn't even tried to change the law that's the heart of this case: that a verbal statement to a loved one is sufficient evidence of a person's will to discontinue life support, assuming that medical science has deemed that recovery is impossible (if recovery is possible, the standards of evidence needed go up.)

Possibly that law should be changed (though I'm not too sure about that. It would likely lead to a whole lot of vegetables with no hope of recoverty on life support for years...), or at the very least looked at. The fact is, though, that for all the hand-wringing about this case, no one (among the politicians, at least) is bothering to discuss the most important legal issue that's the heart of this case, and that's pretty pathetic. Congress 'cares' about this issue enough to use the Constitution as toilet paper, but not enough to even discuss creating a universal legal standard for these sort of issues. As always, a whole lot of showmanship, not a whole lot of substance.
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell']All I've heard is her husband, who clearly isn't going to state otherwise. Frankly if all this evidence this denying her wishes existed as you say this would've ended years ago.[/quote]

You are 100% wrong. It is clear that it was her wish not to have her life continue like this, every single court has determined that. [/quote]

They upheld her husband's claim as the offical guardian and their decisions were largely based on his testimony (I think they heard other people who said something similar but that's never going to hold much water in court), but there is no true evidence available other than statements she apparently made to her spouse, whom was also her guardian at that time. Sure the court agreed with the guardian, but that doesn't mean there is overwhelming evidence that she wished to have no heroic measures used to keep her alive. That decision is still based on what Michael Schiavo is saying his wife told him some 20 years or so ago, I didn't see them pulling out documentation or anything else.

Like I said I mostly agree with Ackbar, but bottomline is people neeed to put their final wishes in writing, make it known to and file with their doctors, lawyers, etc., which is real evidence and works far better than passive statements, and people need do it sooner rather than later.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Like I said I mostly agree with Ackbar, but bottomline is people neeed to put their final wishes in writing, make it known to and file with their doctors, lawyers, etc., which is real evidence and works far better than passive statements, and people need do it sooner rather than later.[/quote]

What if someone has a masochistic desire to live on for 15 years in a comatose state, hooked up to bizarre hospital machines, from which they cannot communicate with the outside world. Do we have to honor their wish to be treated in such a cruel and unusual fashion?
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Like I said I mostly agree with Ackbar, but bottomline is people neeed to put their final wishes in writing, make it known to and file with their doctors, lawyers, etc., which is real evidence and works far better than passive statements, and people need do it sooner rather than later.[/quote]

What if someone has a masochistic desire to live on for 15 years in a comatose state, hooked up to bizarre hospital machines, from which they cannot communicate with the outside world. Do we have to honor their wish to be treated in such a cruel and unusual fashion?[/quote]

If that their wish, then yes. Whatever someone wants done to themselves, hell if they want to be a slave, as long as it's of their own free will it's fine. But, seriously duo, how many 10, 20, 30 and 40 year olds have living wills? Do you have one?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']
If that their wish, then yes. Whatever someone wants done to themselves, hell if they want to be a slave, as long as it's of their own free will it's fine.[/quote]

In America, that's no longer fine. Each person is entitled to the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. You can't be a slave even if you request it.

You can be a butler, maid, or escort service employee (you can even work in the white house while doing this last job) but those are completely different occupations.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Like I said I mostly agree with Ackbar, but bottomline is people neeed to put their final wishes in writing, make it known to and file with their doctors, lawyers, etc., which is real evidence and works far better than passive statements, and people need do it sooner rather than later.[/quote]

What if someone has a masochistic desire to live on for 15 years in a comatose state, hooked up to bizarre hospital machines, from which they cannot communicate with the outside world. Do we have to honor their wish to be treated in such a cruel and unusual fashion?[/quote]

If that their wish, then yes. Whatever someone wants done to themselves, hell if they want to be a slave, as long as it's of their own free will it's fine. But, seriously duo, how many 10, 20, 30 and 40 year olds have living wills? Do you have one?[/quote]

Yeah you are supoosed to abide the wishes a person decrees in their living will no matter if you or I think it's crazy, that's why they exist. Also, yeah I do have one my parents basically made me file a living will (it's not really considered a full will because I have no estate or anything to declare, but it includes my decisions regarding life prolonging procedures) when I went to college. I chalked it up to thier usual over protection at the time, but now I realize how important it was and am glad they hounded me to do it.
 
THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE HUSBAND

"Was Michael the only person who testified about Terri's supposed statements on her views about living on life support?

No, others did as well, and when making the decision in the case, the trial judge took into account all of that testimony and additional evidence. As the Second District explained:

We note that the guardianship court's original order expressly relied upon and found credible the testimony of witnesses other than Mr. Schiavo or the Schindlers. We recognize that Mrs. Schiavo's earlier oral statements were important evidence when deciding whether she would choose in February 2000 to withdraw life-prolonging procedures. See § 765.401(3), Fla. Stat. (2000); In re Guardianship of Browning, 568 So. 2d 4, 16. Nevertheless, the trial judge, acting as her proxy, also properly considered evidence of Mrs. Schiavo's values, personality, and her own decision-making process."

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#qanda
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Ackbar I basically agree with most of your points but you state over and over the the evidence of her wanting to die if she was in this sate but where's all that evidence. All I've heard is her husband, who clearly isn't going to state otherwise. Frankly if all this evidence this denying her wishes existed as you say this would've ended years ago. If anything good comes from this whole tradegy/fiasco it's that maybe it motivated some of the more procrastinating people to create a living will to prevent situations like this ever occuring to them.[/quote]

I don't know the people involved in the case. I don't know much of anything at all about the husband or wife. But it has been stated by both the husband and coworkers and friends that she would not want to live this way. Of course her parents disagree. Ultimately, we need to take the word of the individuals in the case, because she left no living will.

As for the parents, it should be made clear that the parents have presented no reliable evidence to support their position that has stood up under cross examination.

As for the husband, he is not just supported by his own statements but by his co-family. Further, the courts have found no evidence to conclude that he wasn't a kind and caring husband. Nor has there any evidence been presented that the statements made by him and his co-family aren't credible.

Again, that's not something in writing, but there has not been any credible challenges to the husbands assertions.

For many people, this won't be enough. But barring written instructions, this is the next most convincing and thorough evidence we have.

Let me quote the independents guardian report.

"Of the Schindlers, there has evolved the unfortunate and inaccurate perception that they will "keep Theresa alive at any and all costs" even if that were to result in her limbs being amputated and additional, complex surgical and medical interventions being performed, and even if Theresa had expressly indicated her intention not to be so maintained. During the course of the GAL's investigation, the Schindlers allow that this is not accurate, and that they never intended to imply a gruesome maintenance of Theresa at all costs.

"Of Michael Schiavo, there is the incorrect perception that he has refused to relinquish his guardianship because of financial interests, and more recently, because of allegations that he actually abused Theresa and seeks to hide this. There is no evidence in the record to substantiate any of these perceptions or allegations."

Ultimately, it can be said that this is a horrible tragedy. But with all the evidence that is reasonably available, it can be said that she wouldn't want to survive in a vegatative state. I'm not saying that because I know it. I don't know squat about these people.

But I know that the comments of her husband and those that add vocal evidence that she wanted her tube removed have stood under examination. While the vocal comments of the family have serious flaws and contradictions that place huge doubts on even when Terri made statements that she would wanted to live.

So looking at the reliable evidence in the case, the only reasonable conclusion is that this is what Terri would have wanted. It's not just that her husband said it. It's how she said it. Who she said it to. The context of it all. The testimony has to sound reliable and it does for the husband. The testimonials from the families side are not nearly as reliable.

To see the summary of the evidence and how the judge determined his decision, click here
 
[quote name='camoor']In America, that's no longer fine. Each person is entitled to the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. You can't be a slave even if you request it.

You can be a butler, maid, or escort service employee (you can even work in the white house while doing this last job) but those are completely different occupations.[/QUOTE]

I know, I assumed you meant that as in "is it right" not "is it legal".
 
I love the fact Bush keep going "Vote for me or the terrorists kill you!"

But what are the Repubs and dumbos doing? Wasting peoples time and money and trying to take away our freedom instead of better things like.. I don't know making the country safer!

I hope she dies soon so this mess ends.
 
On one hand, I'd like it if she'd just die already and get it over with so that everyone can get back to news that really matters (like, you know, the Micheal Jackson trial (*tries to figure out how to insert a 'rolling-eyes smilie, and gives up*) ) On the other hand, I'd love to see Jeb Bush do exactly what so many people are begging him to do and simple forcably take custody of Terri. That would be SUCH a massive shitstorm that it would be absolutely beautiful to watch.
 
[quote name='Drocket']I'd love to see Jeb Bush do exactly what so many people are begging him to do and simple forcably take custody of Terri. That would be SUCH a massive shitstorm that it would be absolutely beautiful to watch.[/QUOTE]

Better yet, make it the new reality sitcom on FOX. Bout time they merge the ridiculousness of the entertainment FOX with the utter absurdness of the news FOX.
 
[quote name='Drocket']On one hand, I'd like it if she'd just die already and get it over with so that everyone can get back to news that really matters (like, you know, the Micheal Jackson trial (*tries to figure out how to insert a 'rolling-eyes smilie, and gives up*) ) On the other hand, I'd love to see Jeb Bush do exactly what so many people are begging him to do and simple forcably take custody of Terri. That would be SUCH a massive shitstorm that it would be absolutely beautiful to watch.[/QUOTE]

In a way I agree, it would amusing. But, at the same time, it would bother me immensely since I don't want to toy with the emotions of the family any longer than is necessary. No sense in cruelly bringing the parents daughter to near death, then bring her back, rinse, repeat etc. And the husband as well, he obviously thinks he's right but this has to be taking a heavy toll on him as well. I often wonder if he, or the judge will even survive this. Some of the people are outright dangerous, the judge has 24 hour protection, not sure about the husband. The funniest one was a few days ago I heard a guy was arrested robbing a gun store in an attempt to either save terri or kill the husband/judge (can't really remember exactly, it was one of those).

[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Tom DeLay pulled the plug on his own father when it became apparent that machines would have to keep him alive and he had no hope of getting better

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...7mar27,0,5710023.story?coll=la-home-headlines[/QUOTE]

Now there's a man of integrity!
 
Okay, this following is sickening.

"The parents of Terri Schiavo have authorized a conservative direct-mailing firm to sell a list of their financial supporters, making it likely that thousands of strangers moved by her plight will receive a steady stream of solicitations from anti-abortion and conservative groups.

"'These compassionate pro-lifers donated toward Bob Schindler's legal battle to keep Terri's estranged husband from removing the feeding tube from Terri,' says a description of the list on the Web site of the firm, Response Unlimited, which is asking $150 a month for 6,000 names and $500 a month for 4,000 e-mail addresses of people who responded last month to an e-mail plea from Ms. Schiavo's father. 'These individuals are passionate about the way they value human life, adamantly oppose euthanasia and are pro-life in every sense of the word!'

"Privacy experts said the sale of the list was legal and even predictable, if ghoulish."


Basically the Schiavo's are to using Terry to make money off their supporters. That's disgusting.
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']Okay, this following is sickening.

"The parents of Terri Schiavo have authorized a conservative direct-mailing firm to sell a list of their financial supporters, making it likely that thousands of strangers moved by her plight will receive a steady stream of solicitations from anti-abortion and conservative groups.
...
Basically the Schiavo's are to using Terry to make money off their supporters. That's disgusting.[/QUOTE]

You need to remember that the Republicans are also the party of corporate America. Jesus would want it this way.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Here's what I don't like:

They're pulling her feeding tube. They're basically saying "We're taking her off of life support", in effect, sentencing her to death. Fine.

But if you KNOW you're killing her, why not just do it quick and painlessly? You're really going to let her starve and dehydrate to death for a week?

If you're going to kill her, at least do it with some compassion.[/QUOTE]

It's funny, I've been saying that all week.

"Why dont they just put her to sleep?"
 
In another blow to "Fair and Balanced" coverage, Fox News finally had two people on this morning who support Michael Schiavo. They also just happened to both be members of the Communist party and the commentators did their level best to keep mentioning that throughout the interview. So they're telling us that while as much as 80% of the country supports Michael Schiavo's decision to remove the feeding tube, the first people they could find just happened to be communists. Right.

Unfortuantely for Fox, the two women articulated a reasonable argument that the Republicans are overstepping their bounds in creating laws to keep Terri alive. But because they are communists, I'm sure most Fox viewers will dismiss them entirely.
 
In another blow to "Fair and Balanced" coverage, Fox News finally had two people on this morning who support Michael Schiavo.

Stop being a lying idiot. Fox has had a lot of people on who are on the side of State Law and personal decision. The fact is ALL the media loves interviewing the parent's side becuase it stirs up controversy and gives them something to report.

And people wonder why I hardly post here anymore.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Stop being a lying idiot. Fox has had a lot of people on who are on the side of State Law and personal decision. The fact is ALL the media loves interviewing the parent's side becuase it stirs up controversy and gives them something to report.

And people wonder why I hardly post here anymore.[/QUOTE]

If by "wonder why" you really mean "are thankful", look no further than the above statement.
 
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