PayPal's useless Purchase Protection Program

masterh

masterh

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So a month ago, I order some DVDs off of eBay and pay via Paypal. Direct transfer from my bank funds. A month later, I still haven't received them, the seller won't reply to me, she's suddenly got a ton of bad feedback from people who haven't received DVDs from her, but her feedback says she's still buying stuff over eBay. I file a buyer protection complaint with Paypal.
They got back with me today, and guess what! They'll only refund $15 of the $40 I sent. They say they'll see what they can do about getting the rest of my money from the seller. That's absolutely retarded; I thought the point of doing the direct bank transfer of funds was that Paypal had, y'know, PAYPAL PROTECTION. I would've used my credit card if I'd known they'd only refund a third of my money.
Does anyone know if I have any sort of recourse? Like, I dunno, I'm not sure that mail fraud would count in this case but... I'd like more out of this than a $25 lesson in why you should not use Paypal :whistle2:(
 
That's a policy of theirs... they'll get you up to $200 - $25 (I don't remember for what). So if you lost $26, you'd only get $1 back. It's been their policy for a while.

It would've been better to file a charge back with your credit card company since you did a bank transfer, you're outta luck.:whistle2:(
 
That's so weird. Whenever there is a dispute filed against me (shit happens; I'm a good guy! :whistle2:D) they withdraw the funds back out of my checking account and then freeze the funds until the dispute is over.
 
masterh - You certainly can file mail fraud charges in this case. Especially if the seller had indicated they would use the USPS to send the DVDs, but even if they didn't I think you still can. Of course the seller can just claim the DVDs were sent with no tracking or insurance and must have been lost in the mail. But if that is a pattern for them it might get some traction. I don't think it will get any of your money back, though. Check the 'Problems' section of the trading FAQ for more info on various ways to file complaints. http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/faq.php?faq=cag_trading_guide#faq_trading_problems

Anyway, as you've found out the hard way, the problem with PayPal is that they only recover your money if the seller has left enough in their PP account to cover it or they actually transfer the money in themselves to cover their now negative balance. A real scammer would of course not do this.

[quote name='Vinny']That's a policy of theirs... they'll get you up to $200 - $25 (I don't remember for what). So if you lost $26, you'd only get $1 back. It's been their policy for a while.

It would've been better to file a charge back with your credit card company since you did a bank transfer, you're outta luck.:whistle2:([/QUOTE]

Are you sure about that? This sounds sort of like something eBay has, but I thought PayPal refunded your full payment if you win a dispute except when the seller doesn't have funds in his/her account to cover the full refund. (Which I suspect is the case here, that's why OP says PayPal is attempting to work with the seller to get the rest :roll: and not just something like 'Here's your refund sucker, enjoy!')

WebScud - When is the last time that's happened? I'm pretty sure that PayPal does not dip into linked checking accounts any longer. And IIRC that is the result of a class action lawsuit.
 
[quote name='wubb']WebScud - When is the last time that's happened? I'm pretty sure that PayPal does not dip into linked checking accounts any longer. And IIRC that is the result of a class action lawsuit.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean for it to sound like I'm a crook or anything. I always ship within 72 hours. I just want to keep my name clean. ;)

It's happened two or three times to me. The last tme was for a rather large Xbox lot that sold last spring. June, maybe? I was doing college visits with my brother when this claim was filed. I called my automated bank info number and my account was missing nearly $300. They literally just ripped it out of my account. I couldn't believe it. It was such a high dollar ammount it almost put my checking account in the red. They told me that it was within their rights to put a hold on the funds if a dispute happens. If the funds are no longer in the PayPal account guess where they hit next.

Nice to know that they can't do that anymore.
 
[quote name='Vinny']That's a policy of theirs... they'll get you up to $200 - $25 (I don't remember for what). So if you lost $26, you'd only get $1 back. It's been their policy for a while.

It would've been better to file a charge back with your credit card company since you did a bank transfer, you're outta luck.:whistle2:([/QUOTE]
Thats not true. I had a claim for $85 or so and they refunded me $60 or so. The rest they couldnt get because the seller didnt have any funds left. I had to threaten them with mail fraud. Eventually, they sent the remaining $25 from a different paypal account
 
I know this won't help you now, but it is a tip for other people reading this thread. In the future use a credit card for your paypal payments. That way you can just do a chargeback directly on your credit card if there is a problem.
 
[quote name='WebScud']I didn't mean for it to sound like I'm a crook or anything. I always ship within 72 hours. I just want to keep my name clean. ;)

It's happened two or three times to me. The last tme was for a rather large Xbox lot that sold last spring. June, maybe? I was doing college visits with my brother when this claim was filed. I called my automated bank info number and my account was missing nearly $300. They literally just ripped it out of my account. I couldn't believe it. It was such a high dollar ammount it almost put my checking account in the red. They told me that it was within their rights to put a hold on the funds if a dispute happens. If the funds are no longer in the PayPal account guess where they hit next.

Nice to know that they can't do that anymore.[/QUOTE]
Technically, they have no right to go into someones bank account. Bank info is supplied for transfering payment or to pay for item. If they needed payment, they would take payment from PayPal account. If there is still an amount to pay, they'll put a negative or some sort on your account. The moment you get have money in your paypal account, its deducted until your balance is $0.
 
[quote name='wubb']
Are you sure about that? This sounds sort of like something eBay has, but I thought PayPal refunded your full payment if you win a dispute except when the seller doesn't have funds in his/her account to cover the full refund. (Which I suspect is the case here, that's why OP says PayPal is attempting to work with the seller to get the rest :roll: and not just something like 'Here's your refund sucker, enjoy!')[/QUOTE]

[quote name='iazybandit']Thats not true. I had a claim for $85 or so and they refunded me $60 or so. The rest they couldnt get because the seller didnt have any funds left. I had to threaten them with mail fraud. Eventually, they sent the remaining $25 from a different paypal account[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure that's the standard buyer protection plan. It used to be an eBay policy, but since eBay owns PP now, who knows what's up. The same thing happened to me with a dispute about 6 months ago when a UPS claimed to have delivered my DS to an address. I filed a complaint with PP and only got back $150 of $175. PP said the same thing to me: the seller didn't have sufficient funds. What are the chances both of our sellers didn't have exactly $25 left in their accounts?:whistle2:k
 
you really shouldnt have waited a month you should have waited a week and then if you didnt get them contact him. If no response then paypal dispute. But that really does suck because like you said all you hear about are people getting the full ammount taking away from them when they lose a dispute.
 
Excellent advice, Wubb. Thanks to maximum levels!
One more quick question: since I paid via Paypal, I don't have the seller's home address. All I have is what eBay sent me - their full name, city, state, and zip. Any way to get the rest of the person's address? If not, I figure I'll try filing mail fraud charges by filling out the address line with C/O General Delivery - if the town is small enough, it should be okay!
 
[quote name='masterh']Excellent advice, Wubb. Thanks to maximum levels!
One more quick question: since I paid via Paypal, I don't have the seller's home address. All I have is what eBay sent me - their full name, city, state, and zip. Any way to get the rest of the person's address? If not, I figure I'll try filing mail fraud charges by filling out the address line with C/O General Delivery - if the town is small enough, it should be okay![/QUOTE]

You can go on ebay and request the seller's contact info. This actually would be a great idea because ebay lets the seller know that you reqeusted the info and it might scare the seller into refunding your money.
 
And hopefully since they are still using the account to buy that means their contact info with eBay is valid.

Vinny - Good point. It is kind of fishy that three different people on this thread had refunds less the exact $25 difference...
 
Oh, dude, I had no idea that you could request contact information for an eBay user! Absolutely perfect.
The ball is definitely rolling now. I can almost *see* that $25 - or, worst case scenario, a nice mail fraud charge that'll at least grab their attention. Thanks, everyone, for all your help!
 
[quote name='wubb']
Vinny - Good point. It is kind of fishy that three different people on this thread had refunds less the exact $25 difference...[/QUOTE]

Make that four people. I bought lunar 2 on ebay for $63.11. The seller never send the item, so I report it to paypal. They only refunded me $38.11.

63.11
- 38.11
-------
25.00

My disputes is still open and it saying paypal is working with the seller to recover funds. At first I thought the seller just didn't have enough money in his account. Now I doubt I'll ever see that $25
 
[quote name='Slayzz']Make that four people. I bought lunar 2 on ebay for $63.11. The seller never send the item, so I report it to paypal. They only refunded me $38.11.

63.11
- 38.11
-------
25.00

My disputes is still open and it saying paypal is working with the seller to recover funds. At first I thought the seller just didn't have enough money in his account. Now I doubt I'll ever see that $25[/QUOTE]
Email the seller and tell them that if the remaining $25 is not refunded, mail fraud will be sent out. If you do have to send out for mail fraud, print out the original PayPal payment on PayPal, than print out the one where they refunded the payment with the $25 missing, the ebay auction or where ever you bought the item and mail that stuff in.
 
I say the seller shouldnt recieve the payment till the deal is 100% satisfactory. Keep it in limbo till then. But at the sametime that leaves sellers getting raped by buyers still.
 
[quote name='Stink_Pickle']I say the seller shouldnt recieve the payment till the deal is 100% satisfactory. Keep it in limbo till then. But at the sametime that leaves sellers getting raped by buyers still.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with that. Part of that money pays for shipping the item out, so in the meantime, the seller is out the money that the buyer paid specifically for shipping the item.
 
[quote name='Stink_Pickle']I say the seller shouldnt recieve the payment till the deal is 100% satisfactory. Keep it in limbo till then. But at the sametime that leaves sellers getting raped by buyers still.[/QUOTE]
There was a site that did something like that. They acted as the middleman. Dont remember though
 
Okay, for those of you getting back your money minus $25, that's because the seller has $0 in their account. Paypal is actually paying you out of their own funds because you bought from an auction that had free Paypal buyer protection OR you paid for Paypal buyer protection during the transaction.

Because my Ebay and Paypal accounts are in good standing and my address is confirmed, buyers on all my auctions get free Paypal Buyer Protection provided by Ebay. Now, if I fail to deliver and some one files a charge against me, Paypal will attempt to refund the buyer from my account. If I have funds in my account, Paypal will refund them the full amount. If I do not have funds in my account, Paypal will refund the buyer the full amount from their own funds, minus their $25 fee, which they keep for who knows what reason.

I hope this clears up the issue for everyone. :)
 
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