Persona, SMT, DDS, Nocturne.... GAH!

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kamui34

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Where to start!

I've seen that trend concerning the Persona, Shin Megami Tensei and Devil Digital Saga, where copies are getting rarer...

But I have no clue about the games themselves! Are they all connected to a same a story? Where should I start (I've very anal when it comes to a serie, gotta start from the beginning).

And fianlly, are they worth my time and money? Do they belong to the grand classic of RPGs to own and cherish all your life?
 
No, not really. The only reason why most people have them is because they think they are gonna be rare. As actual RPG's, they are mediocre at best. The "walk 4 seconds, then fight some guys" random battle system needs to be scrapped, especially if your games fighting engine ain't that great.
 
DDS vol.1 + 2 are one story. Nocturne is its own story and I think persona 1 is a seperate story from 2.

basically, you can start anywhere, but each series has it's own positive sides and negative sides. DDS has full voice acting, a very fleshed out story and better graphics and sound, but the gameplay is pretty easy and kinda boring. Nocturne has better all-around gameplay, but the story isn't fully voice acted and is kind of sparse. BUT- i think nocturne has a cooler story, since it's darker and allows for more freedom. think KOTOR, except it isn't obvious which side you choose until the end, which kind of forces you to answer questions from the heart, if ya know what i mean.

Haven't played the persona games enough to pass judgement, but they seem like they might not be worth your time. all i know is I coudn't beat the first enemy in persona 2...tried about 10 times. sold it quickly after that :lol:
 
Well they are far from mediocre, in fact they're some of the best RPG's I've played in years. Apossum pretty much summed up the differences between the games. After playing through Nocturne and DDS1 (almost finished with 2) I can say Nocturne is my favorite out of the three. In fact, Nocturne is right up there as one of my favorite games games (not just rpg's) of all time.

With that being said, I'd say start with the DDS games. They're easier, and are a good preparation for the many asskickings you'll get in Nocturne.
 
Woot! Thanks for the link on the Hardcore 101 class. Was an awesome read concerning the Shin Megami Tensei serie.

That's one website I'll put into my bookmark!

Now, I'll see if I can get a hold of all the game lol :)
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']No, not really. The only reason why most people have them is because they think they are gonna be rare. As actual RPG's, they are mediocre at best. The "walk 4 seconds, then fight some guys" random battle system needs to be scrapped, especially if your games fighting engine ain't that great.[/QUOTE]

The fighting engine is great if you take the time to figure it out... most of those random battles are no problem when you can defeat the enemies in about 20 seconds, and the quicker you defeat them the more exp + cash you get (if I remember correctly).

It's one of the few fighting engines that requires actual thought put into it, rather then "lets mash attack 20 times and the battles over".

DDS 1 and 2 have a great connecting story, as well... I would personally start with DDS 1.
 
The battle system in Nocturne is pretty good, probably better than DDS. It is still a random-encounter system, however. The real strength of this game is the creepy atmosphere and story. I think RPG makers are going to have to come up with more creative ways to "level up" characters - RPGs such as Disgaea (tactical battles with unlimited repeats) and the Final Fantasy XI demo (real-time battles with enemies that occasionally respawn) have tried to incorporated different ways of doing this.

It just gets annoying to walk for thirty seconds, fight, walk some more, fight... you just have to be in the mood.

As long as a game wants to emphasize complicated character statistics, it's hard to NOT incorporate random battles. Not impossible, just hard. Again, FFIX is trying, and not everyone is happy.

Games like Zelda -- where "levelling up" occurs during preset plot points where skills are awarded to the player -- are "shallower and shorter" than traditional RPGs, but one could argue they are more elegantly constructed, since the play time is never pumped up by performing the same action over and over again. But that's the same reason hardcores dislike them.
 
All anyone wants (as well as me) is to actually be able to SEE the enemies, and no more of this "omg I'm walking and WHOOSH it's a battle and I take two more steps and WHOOSH another battle".

Chrono Trigger did, every Mario RPG does it, I know a few ps2 rpg's did it... I really wish this would become the rule and not the exception.

Random battles you can't see should have faded away in the 16 bit area, where I imagine they did it due to hardware constraints (but then again, Chrono Trigger did it...)
 
[quote name='Roufuss']All anyone wants (as well as me) is to actually be able to SEE the enemies, and no more of this "omg I'm walking and WHOOSH it's a battle and I take two more steps and WHOOSH another battle".

Chrono Trigger did, every Mario RPG does it, I know a few ps2 rpg's did it... I really wish this would become the rule and not the exception.

Random battles you can't see should have faded away in the 16 bit area, where I imagine they did it due to hardware constraints (but then again, Chrono Trigger did it...)[/QUOTE]

it's pretty easy to predict when you'll get a battle in the SMT games, thanks to the moon phase system. All the games revolve around frequent, fast battles, so it's more practical to do RE instead of littering the screen with enemies.
 
Random battles in DDS were quite speedy, for the most part.
While I can see appeal in the 'see the enemies on the map' style, I personally usually enjoy random battles. There's nothing like "gotta get to a save point before I get in another fight".m
DDS1/2 and Nocturne, at least, offer items or skills to increase or decrease the frequency of random battles.

I saw two copies of Persona 2 at Gamestop the other day. They also had two copies of Rhapsody.

I agree, DDS1/2/Nocturne/others are not 'mediocre'. The SMT series is well known for being one of the few game series that offers something different in terms of story, and for being 'mature' thematically, not just for language, violence, or T&A. DDS1/2 are probably more approachable than Nocturne, and are more similar to 'popular' RPGs, and I believe a littlebit easier, whereas Nocturne is more challenging and offers more customization of the game. It also feels more 'isolated'.
The story in most SMT games is somewhat minimalist, ie, there aren't 15 minute cutscenes every hour. It's more 'implied' and let to your imagination or left to you to piece it together. A notable exception is DDS2, however, I don't know if it was the game or me, but the story , while it 'appeared' quite cool, didn't seem to make a hell of a lot of sense. I think to an extent that is a flaw in the medium---when each 'chapter' is separated by 2-6 hours of dungeon crawling, that tends to break the mood. Whereas if the story were a book or short story, it could probably be easier to follow.

They're worth finding/playing, and while each of them has some similarities in enemy design or gameplay concepts, each one also offers something new. I've played Persona, Persona 2, Nocturne, and DDS 1/2.
 
I recently put in SMT: Nocturne for the first time since I bought it. I am not that good at RPGs but I really liked the theme of the SMT series so I decided to give it a whirl. I am really early in the game (in the hospital, learning the ins and outs). I really like the presentation so far, and there are already a couple of creepy moments. I know I'm probably going to get my ass handed to me later on, but I thought I might give this game a whirl before seeing if I wanted DDS. A couple of my friends have said I should trade Nocturne for DDS, because of my non-hardcore RPG nature.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']I recently put in SMT: Nocturne for the first time since I bought it. I am not that good at RPGs but I really liked the theme of the SMT series so I decided to give it a whirl. I am really early in the game (in the hospital, learning the ins and outs). I really like the presentation so far, and there are already a couple of creepy moments. I know I'm probably going to get my ass handed to me later on, but I thought I might give this game a whirl before seeing if I wanted DDS. A couple of my friends have said I should trade Nocturne for DDS, because of my non-hardcore RPG nature.[/QUOTE]


just fuse some good demons, pay attention to enemy weaknesses, level up and you'll be fine. and maybe get a map for the first kalpa, cause those pitfalls suck ass.
 
[quote name='Apossum']just fuse some good demons, pay attention to enemy weaknesses, level up and you'll be fine. and maybe get a map for the first kalpa, cause those pitfalls suck ass.[/QUOTE]

thanks.

yea right now I've just been trying to level grind, and experiment with the fusion in the Cathedral of Shadows. level grinding isn't all that fun, but I don't want to regret it later when I get to future areas of the game.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']thanks.

yea right now I've just been trying to level grind, and experiment with the fusion in the Cathedral of Shadows. level grinding isn't all that fun, but I don't want to regret it later when I get to future areas of the game.[/QUOTE]

A couple of tips for ya. Be very aware of what skills you're throwing away. They are definitely skills which are more important than others (never toss Focus, imo). Also, keep track of what skills you've learned on your Magatama. If you're about to level up and the Magatama you've got equipped isn't going to learn a skill (will be blue and not shaking) then equip another Magatama which will learn a skill, even if you're going to throw that skill away. On my first playthrough I didn't do a very good job of that and probably leveled up about 20-30 times without learning a skill. I'm actually playing through the game again first cycle, so I can hopefully get a complete Demonic Compendium.

If you're not against using faqs, I recommend AIex's guide at gamefaqs.
 
i'm pretty new to the smt games, too. i heard nocturne is longer (100+hours?)... that's why i jumped into that game first. then maybe i'll start looking for dds1, dds2
 
[quote name='jfunkdpg']A couple of tips for ya. Be very aware of what skills you're throwing away. They are definitely skills which are more important than others (never toss Focus, imo). Also, keep track of what skills you've learned on your Magatama. If you're about to level up and the Magatama you've got equipped isn't going to learn a skill (will be blue and not shaking) then equip another Magatama which will learn a skill, even if you're going to throw that skill away. On my first playthrough I didn't do a very good job of that and probably leveled up about 20-30 times without learning a skill. I'm actually playing through the game again first cycle, so I can hopefully get a complete Demonic Compendium.

If you're not against using faqs, I recommend AIex's guide at gamefaqs.[/QUOTE]

can I check what skills I've learned through certain magatama through the ingest screen? i've only been using the one I started off with but since then have won one (from the first boss) and bought 2 others.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']can I check what skills I've learned through certain magatama through the ingest screen? i've only been using the one I started off with but since then have won one (from the first boss) and bought 2 others.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe you can check what you've already learned, but it will tell you what skill you'll learn next. If you can track one down, try and get DoubleJump's Nocturne guide. I picked it up for $10 at an EBGames, it's easily one of the best strategy guides I've ever seen.
 
[quote name='jfunkdpg']I don't believe you can check what you've already learned, but it will tell you what skill you'll learn next. If you can track one down, try and get DoubleJump's Nocturne guide. I picked it up for $10 at an EBGames, it's easily one of the best strategy guides I've ever seen.[/QUOTE]

thanks for the help. i did a quick look at my other magatama and the one i've been using has a question mark for the next skill, whereas the other ones have stuff listed (probably because I haven't used them). I'll probably just try and get all the skills for each one. I think i'll take my time with this game and not really be in a rush to beat it in 50+ hours

i saw that guide at EB a while ago, wonder if it's still there. probably will check later tonight.
 
I just rebought Nocturne at Gamecrazy last night! $15 used, woot! it's disc only, but I don't care. Glad to own a copy again.


[quote name='asianxcore']thanks for the help. i did a quick look at my other magatama and the one i've been using has a question mark for the next skill, whereas the other ones have stuff listed (probably because I haven't used them). I'll probably just try and get all the skills for each one. I think i'll take my time with this game and not really be in a rush to beat it in 50+ hours

i saw that guide at EB a while ago, wonder if it's still there. probably will check later tonight.[/QUOTE]


yeah, you're talking about the first magatama right? That last skill isn't unlocked until the very end.

it can be a very long game. I got the True Demon Ending, that took about 77 hours. I was also using the guide alot, so a lot of my time was spent tracing maps and getting Dante, who kicks ass of course.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']is it worth it to keep the skill "analyze" for your main character?[/QUOTE]

if you aren't using a guide with a bestiary, then yes. the game gets harder after you fight the Matador and you'll need to see which weaknesses to exploit.
 
[quote name='Apossum']if you aren't using a guide with a bestiary, then yes. the game gets harder after you fight the Matador and you'll need to see which weaknesses to exploit.[/QUOTE]

do you remember what level your main character and the rest of your party were at when you beat Matador? my highest right now is 29 and my lowest is 21. I refuse to leave the passageway in Ginza being underleveled :)
 
[quote name='asianxcore']do you remember what level your main character and the rest of your party were at when you beat Matador? my highest right now is 29 and my lowest is 21. I refuse to leave the passageway in Ginza being underleveled :)[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure you should be able to leave the Underpass.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']do you remember what level your main character and the rest of your party were at when you beat Matador? my highest right now is 29 and my lowest is 21. I refuse to leave the passageway in Ginza being underleveled :)[/QUOTE]

i have no idea what level I was at, but don't worry about your level. all the boss battles are about the elements and stuff-- which ones he uses, which ones are his weaknesses (so you can rack up those extra turns.) if you want, I can spoil what to use for the matador fight, but half the fun (and hair pulling difficulty) is figuring out exactly how to kick his ass :)

just started this game again yesterday and got to Ginza tonight. i forgot how addicting it is!
 
[quote name='Apossum']
just started this game again yesterday and got to Ginza tonight. i forgot how addicting it is![/QUOTE]

QFT. I re-started it a little more than a week ago and I'm already at Ikebukuro Tunnel (but going through the second Kalpa first).
 
apossum, I beat the Matador already, I was just wondering what your character levels were at when you beat him. he killed off one of my characters a turn before I wiped him out, kind of a bummer :)

I just finished Ginza, I have to go to Ikebukuro next, but I was just wondering if I may be underleveled. I've been trying to learn a couple skills from each magatama I have so that I have somewhat of a variety of skills not only for my main character but for my party. I think my levels are 29 (almost 30 for my main), 21/22, 30 and almost 27/28 for my last character. My momunofu solidier evolved into a rad character that is null to physical attacks, skills and ailments.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']apossum, I beat the Matador already, I was just wondering what your character levels were at when you beat him. he killed off one of my characters a turn before I wiped him out, kind of a bummer :)

I just finished Ginza, I have to go to Ikebukuro next, but I was just wondering if I may be underleveled. I've been trying to learn a couple skills from each magatama I have so that I have somewhat of a variety of skills not only for my main character but for my party. I think my levels are 29 (almost 30 for my main), 21/22, 30 and almost 27/28 for my last character. My momunofu solidier evolved into a rad character that is null to physical attacks, skills and ailments.[/QUOTE]


ahh, gotcha :) sounds like your levels are fine, afaik. I don't think I was at 30 when i fought the matador. but i beat it around this time last year, so I'm not 100% on that.

Matador is pretty kick ass, fuse him asap! I kept him in my party until the end of the game, since his agility is ridiculous.
 
[quote name='Apossum']ahh, gotcha :) sounds like your levels are fine, afaik. I don't think I was at 30 when i fought the matador. but i beat it around this time last year, so I'm not 100% on that.

Matador is pretty kick ass, fuse him asap! I kept him in my party until the end of the game, since his agility is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

wow. didn't even know you could fuse him. im a newb :)

even though it's kind of out of the way, I found that the first floor of the Kapla is great for level grinding. getting 110/120 ex. points is a lot better then running around Ginza and getting 20-30 ex. points.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']wow. didn't even know you could fuse him. im a newb :)

even though it's kind of out of the way, I found that the first floor of the Kapla is great for level grinding. getting 110/120 ex. points is a lot better then running around Ginza and getting 20-30 ex. points.[/QUOTE]

Like Apossum, I fused a Matador as soon as I could and he was in my party almost the entire rest of the game, until I was able to fuse better fiends.

And a good place to level will be coming up soon, Kabukicho Prison. The enemies have easy weaknesses to exploit, and give around 500 exp a fight. Later you'll reach Ikebukuro Tunnel which gives great exp, but has significantly more difficult enemies.
 
[quote name='jfunkdpg']Like Apossum, I fused a Matador as soon as I could and he was in my party almost the entire rest of the game, until I was able to fuse better fiends.

And a good place to level will be coming up soon, Kabukicho Prison. The enemies have easy weaknesses to exploit, and give around 500 exp a fight. Later you'll reach Ikebukuro Tunnel which gives great exp, but has significantly more difficult enemies.[/QUOTE]

I'm sort of confused how to fuse the Matador. I take two demons that normally yield someone from the Yoma clan, but I have to have a death (?) stone from one of the Kapla levels? Does it ask me to use the death (?) stone when I'm fusing or do I have to randomly throw it in.

Also I still haven't left the Ginza area, what common demons do I run into in the last couple levels can be fused to get a Yoma?
 
[quote name='asianxcore']I'm sort of confused how to fuse the Matador. I take two demons that normally yield someone from the Yoma clan, but I have to have a death (?) stone from one of the Kapla levels? Does it ask me to use the death (?) stone when I'm fusing or do I have to randomly throw it in.

Also I still haven't left the Ginza area, what common demons do I run into in the last couple levels can be fused to get a Yoma?[/QUOTE]

it does prompt you and you exchange it for the fusion. i think it might have to be done when the kagatsuchi is full too. as for which demons make yomas, i forget exactly. I think there's a good fusion chart at gamefaqs.

I've been looking for the guide for this game everywhere-- if anyone can hook one up, please let me know :)
 
[quote name='Apossum']it does prompt you and you exchange it for the fusion. i think it might have to be done when the kagatsuchi is full too. as for which demons make yomas, i forget exactly. I think there's a good fusion chart at gamefaqs.

I've been looking for the guide for this game everywhere-- if anyone can hook one up, please let me know :)[/QUOTE]

http://djbooks.easystorecreator.com...ensei:_Nocturne_-_The_Official_Strategy_Guide

have you tried ordering from Doublejump? it's 19.99 there, I'm not sure if that's more than you'd want to pay. I know my EB had a copy of the guide late last year, but it has since then been bought up.
 
[quote name='jfunkdpg']

With that being said, I'd say start with the DDS games. They're easier, and are a good preparation for the many asskickings you'll get in Nocturne.[/QUOTE]

thank god! i was about to make a thread about how hard DDS is or isn't because i've played nocturne and it is hard as fuck. you'll be kicking the shit out of the demons in random battles but then you get to a boss and find out you need to level up like 7 more times to even have a chance at winning. hahaha. seriously, i got so mad at that game.

i just picked up DDS so im going to give it a shot.
 
fighting Dante for the first time at the Mantra Headquarters made me want to level up more and fuse better demons. half of my party survived his onslaught, but the other 2 died about 2 turns before I finished him off. I didn't have too much trouble with the fight with the boss demons in the prison, although Thor did kill off one of my characters 1 turn before I killed him.

I want to get DDS and DDS 2 sometime down the line. When I actually want to get the game it gets impossible to find :)
 
When fusing Fiends, it won't prompt you on whether or not you choose to use a Deathstone, so be aware of that. If you want to fuse a Matador right away, you can fuse a Jirae (I believe Jirae Sudama is found in the Underpass) and a Fairy (you can find a bunch of different Fairies in Ginza). Keep in mind though, to fuse a Matador, the Kagutsuchi phase has to be between 1/8 and Half.
 
The SMT games are FAR from mediocre. I love the creepy atmosphere and dark, mature stories. It's much different from FFX for example. One of the best series ever. I highly recommend them, good luck finding them though. ;_;
 
[quote name='WebScud']As any notice that DDS prices seem to be back to about $50-55 on eBay?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad. I want to pick up the game sometime down the line and I don't want to end up paying ridiculous prices for it.

Also does anyone know what point in the game I can hold more demons?
 
[quote name='asianxcore']I'm glad. I want to pick up the game sometime down the line and I don't want to end up paying ridiculous prices for it.

Also does anyone know what point in the game I can hold more demons?[/QUOTE]

When you meet Gozu-Tennoh on the top floor of Mantra Headquarters.
 
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