Riot Over Desegragation of Girl's School

berzirk

berzirk

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100617/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_segregated_school

What will those damn mozlums do next...wait, say what?:

"Parents of European, or Ashkenazi [Jews], descent at a girls' school in the West Bank settlement of Emanuel don't want their daughters to study with schoolgirls of Mideast and North African descent, known as Sephardim [Jews].

The Ashkenazi parents insist they aren't racist, but want to keep the classrooms segregated, as they have been for years, arguing that the families of the Sephardi girls aren't religious enough."

Thank God they're the middle east's only democracy.
 
[quote name='berzirk']http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100617/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_segregated_school

What will those damn mozlums do next...wait, say what?:

"Parents of European, or Ashkenazi [Jews], descent at a girls' school in the West Bank settlement of Emanuel don't want their daughters to study with schoolgirls of Mideast and North African descent, known as Sephardim [Jews].

The Ashkenazi parents insist they aren't racist, but want to keep the classrooms segregated, as they have been for years, arguing that the families of the Sephardi girls aren't religious enough."

Thank God they're the middle east's only democracy.[/QUOTE]
This is ridiculous, I am outraged! Everyone knows that girls shouldn't be allowed to read - they shouldn't be going to school at all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
 
Bonus lulz: Sephardim are the "native" Jews. Ultra-O Ashkenazim are immigrants that demand full cradle to grave support from the government.
 
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I hope I don't come off as a bigot or a racist (I'm not) but my many years of owning a business in a jewish area has taught me one thing and thats Jews are some of the most ridiculous people you could ever meet. I will say this is mostly the older generation but some of the younger folks too are pretty obnoxious.

Only jewish folks would think that one type of jew is better than another type of jew. I know for a fact a lot of the Ashkenazi Jews view themselves as elite on terms of a genetic level and ancestry in terms of area they come from. This sect goes so far as to explain they a special mutation on the Male Y chromosome and same goes for the one of the female's X chromosomes that makes them special and unique from other Jews...It's kind of silly.

Funny though is the fact that most jewish folks practice the same religion, with same beliefs. These people are arguing over the fact that each of these sects came from different areas thousands and thousands of years of go (and I imagine that makes one sect more religious than the other). Sounds kind of racist to me (one being whiter than the other). It also wouldn't shock me if both of these sects looked physically largely a like...(i.e. white folks).
 
Just another reason for my belief that religion separates people rather than bringing us together. It isn't enough to separate between even religions, we have to sub categorize into different sects within the religions.

Meanwhile us non believers are sitting on the sidelines in disbelief that people do this.
 
I still don't see how people start thinking "First I'll write 'I hope this doesn't seem racist'" and somehow not stop right there and examine the belief they're about to put to digital paper.
 
[quote name='SpazX']I still don't see how people start thinking "First I'll write 'I hope this doesn't seem racist'" and somehow not stop right there and examine the belief they're about to put to digital paper.[/QUOTE]

You have anything more you want to complain about??? Go ahead...you seem to like to bitch and whine. J/K In any case I don't think anything I wrote was racist or wrong (actually it was all factual and you can look it up if you'd like). The only part that wasn't was my opinionated statement of jewish people being some of the most ridiculous people I've meet (in terms of what they complain about)...which by and by is true from my experiences with them. A side for that they are fine people.
 
[quote name='Sk']You have anything more you want to complain about??? Go ahead...you seem to like to bitch and whine.[/quote]

Shit, I must be Jewish, right?

[quote name='Sk']In any case I don't think anything I wrote was racist[/quote]

Then what motivated that disclaimer?

[quote name='Sk']or wrong (actually it was all factual and you can look it up if you'd like).[/quote]

What facts exactly am I looking up?

[quote name='Sk']The only part that wasn't was my opinionated statement of jewish people being some of the most ridiculous people I've meet (in terms of what they complain about)...which by and by is true from my experiences with them. A side for that they are fine people.[/QUOTE]

Basically the whole thing was your opinionated statement, but you say that's true right after you say it isn't a fact, so whatever.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Please post a time where I've ever spoken out in favor of the Taliban's treatment of women, otherwise, you're just trolling.

Thanks though.

speedracer, that was my biggest WTF in the whole article too.[/QUOTE]

Not trollin'. Just curious why your condemnation is reserved for Israel and their oppression of a Jewish minority, but you conveniently fail to mention Sharia law and it's oppression of women. I also didn't hear any outrage from you last year either when Iran violently oppressed political dissent.

Sure, there's a great deal of racism driving internal Israeli politics, they're less than ideal as an ally, their foreign policy is confrontational - a great deal of the blame for the continuing Palestinian conflict sits directly on their shoulders; but Israel is far from the worst offender in the middle east in human rights.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Not trollin'. Just curious why your condemnation is reserved for Israel and their oppression of a Jewish minority, but you conveniently fail to mention Sharia law and it's oppression of women. I also didn't hear any outrage from you last year either when Iran violently oppressed political dissent.

Sure, there's a great deal of racism driving internal Israeli politics, they're less than ideal as an ally, their foreign policy is confrontational - a great deal of the blame for the continuing Palestinian conflict sits directly on their shoulders; but Israel is far from the worst offender in the middle east in human rights.[/QUOTE]

He isn't required to post every problem.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']He isn't required to post every problem.[/QUOTE]
When he writes:
"What will those damn mozlums do next...wait, say what?"
And:
"Thank God they're the middle east's only democracy."

He's excusing the offenses of the other Middle Eastern nations, in favor of discussing Israeli human rights abuses. I will never defend Israel, not after what they've done. But again, they're far from the worst offenders.
 
They are far from the worst offenders, agreed. But since we proudly call them our allies, America should condemn this event. We expect oppressive regimes like Iran to be oppressive. But the Middle East's only democracy shouldn't be anywhere close to that.
 
[quote name='IRHari']They are far from the worst offenders, agreed. But since we proudly call them our allies, America should condemn this event. We expect oppressive regimes like Iran to be oppressive. But the Middle East's only democracy shouldn't be anywhere close to that.[/QUOTE]
They're not the only democracy anymore - even if you're not counting "Democracies in Name Only" like Iran.

Also, you make a valid point. The US should condemn events that threaten human rights. This event was nothing of the kind. The Israeli supreme court integrated the school. It's a perfectly reasonable action, and Israel deserves our commendation and support for it. The story is about a religious minority protesting that supreme court ruling. Condemning Israel for it would be akin to condemning the US because the KKK protested Brown V Board of Education.

Did you read the article?
 
[quote name='Sk']I
Only jewish folks would think that one type of jew is better than another type of jew. I know for a fact a lot of the Ashkenazi Jews view themselves as elite on terms of a genetic level and ancestry in terms of area they come from. This sect goes so far as to explain they a special mutation on the Male Y chromosome and same goes for the one of the female's X chromosomes that makes them special and unique from other Jews...It's kind of silly. .[/QUOTE]

You obviously missed the Reformation. It was a pretty big event and still has long lasting effects. For a Christian nation, we hated Catholics until Kennedy got elected in 1960.

Oh, and I think the Sunnis and Shias are arguing about which branch of Mohammed's family are the true heirs to the prophet's "kingdom".
 
[quote name='Quillion']Not trollin'. Just curious why your condemnation is reserved for Israel and their oppression of a Jewish minority, but you conveniently fail to mention Sharia law and it's oppression of women. I also didn't hear any outrage from you last year either when Iran violently oppressed political dissent.

Sure, there's a great deal of racism driving internal Israeli politics, they're less than ideal as an ally, their foreign policy is confrontational - a great deal of the blame for the continuing Palestinian conflict sits directly on their shoulders; but Israel is far from the worst offender in the middle east in human rights.[/QUOTE]

Again, you're bringing non-related topics in. At fear of cluttering the thread (which apparently you have no fear of)

1) not a single country in the world follows Islamic law (or "Sharia" for those of you that need to get hardons from buzzwords). IMO If they did, women would be treated far better than some of these bass ackwards governments and tribal leaders treat women. This applies to religious minorities as well.
2) I personally have never spoken out in favor of oppression of women, races, religions, etc. Don't try to make it sound like I look the other way on it. It was an unrelated issue. Should I also state that I think sticking firecrackers up a frog's ass is inhumane?
3) I linked to a recent article that I found fascinating. I didn't add commentary, so for you to try and link me to other issues is grasping at straws.
4) Iran's political demonstrations and oppressive government has absolutely nothing to do with this. I don't remember hearing you speak out against the riots and clashes in Krgystan. Can I presume you're in favor of killing people over there since you didn't explicity list it out on your "I do not like it" list?
 
[quote name='berzirk']Again, you're bringing non-related topics in. At fear of cluttering the thread (which apparently you have no fear of)

1) not a single country in the world follows Islamic law (or "Sharia" for those of you that need to get hardons from buzzwords). IMO If they did, women would be treated far better than some of these bass ackwards governments and tribal leaders treat women. This applies to religious minorities as well.
[/QUOTE]I apologize if I used the incorrect word to describe the religion-driven abuses against women in the Muslim world. What word would you prefer I use?
2) I personally have never spoken out in favor of oppression of women, races, religions, etc. Don't try to make it sound like I look the other way on it. It was an unrelated issue. Should I also state that I think sticking firecrackers up a frog's ass is inhumane?
3) I linked to a recent article that I found fascinating. I didn't add commentary, so for you to try and link me to other issues is grasping at straws.
Click to expand...
You did add commentary, comparing Israel to other countries in the middle east. Read posts 16 and 18.
4) Iran's political demonstrations and oppressive government has absolutely nothing to do with this. I don't remember hearing you speak out against the riots and clashes in Krgystan. Can I presume you're in favor of killing people over there since you didn't explicity list it out on your "I do not like it" list?
Click to expand...
When I post articles about Uzbekistan's abuses (who I might happen have a religion in opposition to), while ignoring Kyrgyzstan abuses (whose religion I share) feel free to call me on it. Kay?

What you seem to not realize is that the article is about the Israeli government NOT bowing to the religious/racist rules of a minority. Something that Islamic governments seem to have a great deal of trouble with.

To borrow words from a holy book:
"Do you order people to devoutness and forget yourselves, when you recite the book? Will you not use your intellect?" (Qu'ran 2:44)
Or alternatively:
"So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment?" (Romans 2:3)

Take the plank out of your own eye.
 
@Quillion yeah you're right, that's a good analogy. I said we should condemn this event. I'm glad it's such a small minority of the population, only 10%.

I don't think there's any reason to believe the government agrees with the protestors anyway, so that's a good thing.
 
Quill...hunh? I honestly don't get what point you're trying to make because you're rambling so bad.

Again, there are no "Islamic governments" in the world. Iran can call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran" but name alone doesn't make it so. It's through actions.

I could create a list of hypocritical actions by countless muslim countries, but again...that's not what the goal of the thread was.

My intent was twofold; to post the story showing that it's not just the so-called Islamic countries that have internal strife and conflict, and to point out the WTF-edness of the "we're not racist, but" quote from the article.

The fact that I'm muslim seems to be what you're really pissed at. Believe it or not, as a muslim, I'm allowed to have opinions on issues that other muslims would disagree with. You seem to want to lump me in with everything you don't like about the religion, but what you don't understand is that Islam has tons of similarities with Judaism and Christianity, so I really don't hate either religion, in fact, far, far from it.

The only other religion I seriously considered embracing when I was on my little spiritual journey was Judaism. So please, keep posting goofball, unrelated stuff if you want a higher post count, but I'm bored of replying to it. PM me if you want to continue this dialogue.
 
[quote name='Sk']Only jewish folks would think that one type of jew is better than another type of jew. I know for a fact a lot of the Ashkenazi Jews view themselves as elite on terms of a genetic level and ancestry in terms of area they come from. This sect goes so far as to explain they a special mutation on the Male Y chromosome and same goes for the one of the female's X chromosomes that makes them special and unique from other Jews...It's kind of silly.[/QUOTE]
I've had the same experience, I lived in Jewish neighborhoods for years and have Jewish family. Most are pretty down to earth but some of the others are exactly that way.

I do see some irony in that its mostly the German Jews (Ashkenazi) who are more likely to view themselves as a superior race, though I'd still say its not the majority of them, at least here.

But hey, I suppose we're not allowed to criticize anyone for any reason as long as they're better than the absolute worst examples of humanity on Earth. Segregation should be railed on no matter where it is, in Israel, Northern Ireland, India, etc.
 
[quote name='IRHari']@Quillion yeah you're right, that's a good analogy. I said we should condemn this event. I'm glad it's such a small minority of the population, only 10%.

I don't think there's any reason to believe the government agrees with the protestors anyway, so that's a good thing.[/QUOTE]
You're right, to an extent. The Supreme court exercised sanity in this case, but the extreme holds too much power in Israel. Just like the US.

[quote name='berzirk']Quill...hunh? I honestly don't get what point you're trying to make because you're rambling so bad.

Again, there are no "Islamic governments" in the world. Iran can call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran" but name alone doesn't make it so. It's through actions.

I could create a list of hypocritical actions by countless muslim countries, but again...that's not what the goal of the thread was.

My intent was twofold; to post the story showing that it's not just the so-called Islamic countries that have internal strife and conflict, and to point out the WTF-edness of the "we're not racist, but" quote from the article.

The fact that I'm muslim seems to be what you're really pissed at. Believe it or not, as a muslim, I'm allowed to have opinions on issues that other muslims would disagree with. You seem to want to lump me in with everything you don't like about the religion, but what you don't understand is that Islam has tons of similarities with Judaism and Christianity, so I really don't hate either religion, in fact, far, far from it.

The only other religion I seriously considered embracing when I was on my little spiritual journey was Judaism. So please, keep posting goofball, unrelated stuff if you want a higher post count, but I'm bored of replying to it. PM me if you want to continue this dialogue.[/QUOTE]I try to be succinct, and that may sometimes seem rambling. I do tend to jump from point to point. I will endeavor to improve.

To be honest, I have no issue with your religion, or the way you practice it. I don't take issue with you personally at all. I take issue with what I perceive to be an inherent bias on your part favoring nations who adhere to your belief system. Though I suppose that may be in my head entirely, and even if it isn't, I can't blame you for bias. We're all loaded with our preconceptions. Your spiritual quest indicates at least an ability to adapt to new ideas, and as such I don't consider you closed-minded.

For the record, I also hate the moniker "Islamic Nations" as much as you seem to, and as much as I despise the statement that "The United States is a Christian Nation founded on Christian Principles". They both make my toes curl.
 
I've heard that (US Christian Nation Christian principles) a lot, and if anyone has an answer to this question, I'd love to hear it:

What values does the US have that are uniquely Christian?
 
There aren't any that I know, but fundies seem to believe that Christian morals are some how unique.
 
[quote name='Quillion']You're right, to an extent. The Supreme court exercised sanity in this case, but the extreme holds too much power in Israel. Just like the US.

I try to be succinct, and that may sometimes seem rambling. I do tend to jump from point to point. I will endeavor to improve.

To be honest, I have no issue with your religion, or the way you practice it. I don't take issue with you personally at all. I take issue with what I perceive to be an inherent bias on your part favoring nations who adhere to your belief system. Though I suppose that may be in my head entirely, and even if it isn't, I can't blame you for bias. We're all loaded with our preconceptions. Your spiritual quest indicates at least an ability to adapt to new ideas, and as such I don't consider you closed-minded.

For the record, I also hate the moniker "Islamic Nations" as much as you seem to, and as much as I despise the statement that "The United States is a Christian Nation founded on Christian Principles". They both make my toes curl.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Sometimes I jump on the defensive based on real life events (not internet forums and such).

I'm probably more anti-Islamic countries than the others, cause to me, they have a clear set of rules they should be observing, but instead they are run corrupt. A great example is that as we all know, many muslims are opposed to photographs of the likeness of people being made. Well, in Saudi, businesses are required to keep photos of the king. WTF? Then you've got Saddaam's Iraq, the old Arafat-led PLO, these were some of the most corrupt leaders in the world. I hold them to a higher standard, and as a group, they never fail to disappoint. That's one of the reasons why, for all its problems, the US is still one of the best damn places in the world.

Anyhoo, I've rambled now, but agreed Quil, it's nothing personal, so my apologies if me implying or outright saying that offended you.
 
Cant or hasnt the US adopted morals that coincide with the moral rule of Christianity?

Why does it have to be unique morals? I think we all share a lot of the morals of Christianity, but that doesn't make you Christian. But it does mean you hold morals that are similiar to Christian morals.

Im failing to see where IRHari and Clak are taking this besides a good old fashioned christian bashing, and I dont plan on finding out because ill be attacked for asking them to elaborate in 3...2....1...go
 
[quote name='Knoell']Cant or hasnt the US adopted morals that coincide with the moral rule of Christianity?

Why does it have to be unique morals? I think we all share a lot of the morals of Christianity, but that doesn't make you Christian. But it does mean you hold morals that are similiar to Christian morals.

Im failing to see where IRHari and Clak are taking this besides a good old fashioned christian bashing, and I dont plan on finding out because ill be attacked for asking them to elaborate in 3...2....1...go[/QUOTE]

If there's nothing uniquely Christian about it then why would you call it Christian? The morals are found in every Abrahamic religion at the very least, but they're pretty much also in every other religion and every non-religious moral code.

So why not say it's a Jewish nation, like the founders intended?
 
[quote name='SpazX']If there's nothing uniquely Christian about it then why would you call it Christian? The morals are found in every Abrahamic religion at the very least, but they're pretty much also in every other religion and every non-religious moral code.

So why not say it's a Jewish nation, like the founders intended?[/QUOTE]
Because they aren't uniquely Christian. You can't even prove that they originated with Christianity. I'm pretty sure killing people was frowned upon before Christianity even existed. I don't know if Knoell is trying to prove Christians and non-Christians have something in common or what.

I can say personally that my sense of right and wrong didn't come from a Christian upbringing.
 
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[quote name='berzirk']

The Ashkenazi parents insist they aren't racist, but want to keep the classrooms segregated, as they have been for years, arguing that the families of the Sephardi girls aren't religious enough."[/QUOTE]

Not racist? Well they need to find out what that word means really then, racism isnt just based on skin color, racism is disliking anyone because of something you dont have in common without even bothering to know the other person. If I had a store and refused to let people in because they were religious, they were black or because they wore tshirts then I would be racist.

They should be teaching their children to be accepting and that its ok to not like someone else as long as you dislike them for who they are as a person and not for some other stupid superficial reason.

Like myself, I hate all kinds of people that are of difference skin colors, regions they were born, ethnic background or whatever but the reason I dislike those people is because of who they are as a person and not where they come from, look like or believe in.
 
Racism is discriminating based on race alone, has nothing to do with religion or how some dresses. If you dislike someone because they're black, that's racism. If you dislike someone because they're wearing clothes you don't like, that isn't racism.
 
[quote name='gargus']Not racist? Well they need to find out what that word means really then, racism isnt just based on skin color, racism is disliking anyone because of something you dont have in common without even bothering to know the other person. If I had a store and refused to let people in because they were religious, they were black or because they wore tshirts then I would be racist.

They should be teaching their children to be accepting and that its ok to not like someone else as long as you dislike them for who they are as a person and not for some other stupid superficial reason.

Like myself, I hate all kinds of people that are of difference skin colors, regions they were born, ethnic background or whatever but the reason I dislike those people is because of who they are as a person and not where they come from, look like or believe in.[/QUOTE]
I think you are talking about bigotry.

racism-a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.;
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.



bigotry-stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
 
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