ROP Update: Man Kills Daughters 8, 7, 4, to Prevent Them From Commiting Adultery

PittsburghAfterDark

CAGiversary!
Pakistani Killed Daughters to Save 'Honor'

cu4xl


MULTAN, Pakistan - Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" — a crime that shocked Pakistan.

The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, confessed to just one regret — that he didn't murder the stepsister's alleged lover too.

Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more than half of such cases that make it to court, most end with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging.

Ahmed's killing spree — witnessed by his wife Rehmat Bibi as she cradled their 3 month-old baby son — happened Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab province.

It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.

Kind of hard to say this is a completely isolated incident and the actions of one crazy man huh?

Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he then killed the three girls — Bano, 8, Sumaira, 7, and Humaira, 4 — pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.

"I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, told AP by phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you.'"

"The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she said.

The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.

Speaking to AP in the back of police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition. Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want them to do the same when they grew up.

He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers on Friday and hid them in the house where he carried out the killings.

"I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect but our honor."

Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery — a claim made by her husband — the rights commission reported that according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.

Police have said they do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged lover.

Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother, who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is customary under Islamic tradition.

"Women are treated as property and those committing crimes against them do not get punished," said the rights commission's director, Kamla Hyat. "The steps taken by our government have made no real difference."


Activists accuse President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a self-styled moderate Muslim, of reluctance to reform outdated Islamized laws that make it difficult to secure convictions in rape, acid attacks and other cases of violence against women. They say police are often reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes as family disputes.

Statistics on honor killings are confused and imprecise, but figures from the rights commission's Web site and its officials show a marked reduction in cases this year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable figures.

Ijaz Elahi, the ministry's joint secretary, said the violence was decreasing and that increasing numbers of victims were reporting incidents to police or the media. Laws, including one passed last year to beef up penalties for honor killings, had been toughened, she said.

Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death sentence if he is convicted for the killings and terrorizing his neighborhood.

Ahmed, who did not resist arrest, was unrepentant.

"I told the police that I am an honorable father and I slaughtered my dishonored daughter and the three other girls," he said. "I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire."

Link
 
So, you're going to compare a criminal to a ritualistic, Islamic inspired murder of 260+ women in just one country based on "honor".

75 million women under 64 in Pakistan, 260 killed this year alone. Odds of being killed for offending some guys religous sensibilities 1-288,000.

RELIGON OF PEACE DAMMIT!

You think Americans might be outraged if Christians killed 350-400 women a year in similar circumstances? Think we'd ever hear an end of the media outrage? Condemnation of Christians? Women's groups being appaled at the barbarity of the acts?

Wake up Mykey, you know this isn't an isolated incident. I'm surprised this story actually made CNN this morning.
 
Crap, I just lost my entire reply. Here's the short version:

If you spent as much time seeking out gross violations of human rights as you did seeking out stories that reify the already beaten-into-your-head notion that Muslims are vastly inferior, you'd find that 260 killings in one year is a paltry sum compared to the number of Dowry-related murders and suicides in each year. Your false sense of outrage is exposed by your indifference to far greater examples of suffering on this planet.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']You think Americans might be outraged if Christians killed 350-400 women a year in similar circumstances? Think we'd ever hear an end of the media outrage? Condemnation of Christians? Women's groups being appaled at the barbarity of the acts?[/QUOTE]

There are many priests that we now find are pedos, yet it hasn't led to a codemnation of christianity. Christians have bombed clinics, halted the advancement of science and medical technology that clashes with selective passages of their sacred book, and created cults that defied the law of the United States and put thier members in mortal danger (eg Waco)

I don't see too much outrage, because rational people can realize that it's mostly fundamentalists, and not moderate christians/muslims/etc, that are engaging in these detrimental acts.

Now I don't agree with some of the policies supported by moderate christians, but I would never try to paint them all as pedos, bombers, or anti-science.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Crap, I just lost my entire reply. Here's the short version:

If you spent as much time seeking out gross violations of human rights as you did seeking out stories that reify the already beaten-into-your-head notion that Muslims are vastly inferior, you'd find that 260 killings in one year is a paltry sum compared to the number of Dowry-related murders and suicides in each year. Your false sense of outrage is exposed by your indifference to far greater examples of suffering on this planet.[/QUOTE]

260 "honor" killings YTD in one country. That's just Pakistan. I'm sure if you added them up from every Muslim country in the world the total would top 2,000. Pakistan is hardly the most populous Islamic country on Earth.

Now aren't you one of those people outraged at 2,100 U.S. servicemen dying in three years?

So you're more likley to be outraged that soldiers who signed up for service knowing the risk their duty entailed than a few thousand Islamic women being killed over the same period of time by relatives, brothers or fathers for "dishonor" of their family?

So Mykey, I guess deaths only matter if they're Americans huh?
 
My point, PAD, is that your feigning outrage only goes as far as your ideological boundaries do.

If you think that the notion of "honor" killings doesn't bother me, you're a fool.
 
Fundies of any stripe are dangerous. If you want to get fundamentalism declared a mental disorder, they can all get the help they desperately need.
 
I'm kind of hesitant to make this comparison due to the amount of anti-Christian hate on this board, but I guess it more effectively counters PAD's ridiculous argument that the actions of some Muslims mean that all Muslims are evil.

Here's an article about 408 Christians killing themselves, so I guess all Christians must believe in ritual suicide...

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I'm kind of hesitant to make this comparison due to the amount of anti-Christian hate on this board, but I guess it more effectively counters PAD's ridiculous argument that the actions of some Muslims mean that all Muslims are evil.

Here's an article about 408 Christians killing themselves, so I guess all Christians must believe in ritual suicide...

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/[/QUOTE]

Good point. Just because a few people are dumbasses doesn't represent an entire group of people.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I'm kind of hesitant to make this comparison due to the amount of anti-Christian hate on this board[/QUOTE]
I think you mis-represent it. Someone like me hates all religion. So, if someone decides to post some article pointing out what such and such religion does something awful and/or stupid, I can just point to some other religion that does the exact same thing. It just so happens that the religion pointed to most frequently is Islam, and the easiest religion to point to that does similarily stupid things is Christianity.
 
Totally stolen from another board...

The Koran itself makes no mention of honor killing whatsoever and in fact Islamic Law forbids honor killing. The religious leaders of Iran denounce it as un-Islamic.

The koran prescribes 100 lashes for premarital sex - for both the man and the woman - and adultery is punishable by stoning - again, for both the man and the woman. Both of these punishments require witnesses and only a legal authority can make the decision to carry out those punishments. False accusations of adultery or premaritial sex also carry harsh punishments.

Honor killing is a pre-Islam cultural tradition. Indonesia has the world's largest muslim population and yet has honor killings are unknown, as well as western africa (which is predominantly muslim) and bangledesh.

What happens is that proponents of honor killing (what a fucked up world) attempt to justify it through Islamic law, even though their arguments fly in the face of said laws. They also claim it's perfectly ok to because of Urf - that is to say, because it's tradition.

The problem as it relates to Islam is that muslim countries, while decrying honor killings, have very light punishments compared to other acts of murder. The good news is that this is (very slowly) changing - several countries, including Turkey, have recently introduced harsher punishments for honor killings. (It was legal to kill your wife or daughter for sleeping around in Italy until 1980, by the way.)

I'd like to think this trend will continue as more and more honor killings are reported by the global media, as well as strong and steady pressure from the UN (don't knock it - turkey's legal changes were in a large part due to the UN.)
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I'm kind of hesitant to make this comparison due to the amount of anti-Christian hate on this board...[/QUOTE]

Here comes the popular mythos of the persecuted christian.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']So are you saying we should round up all of the muslims, put them in camps, and exterminate them?[/QUOTE]


No, just convert them.
 
[quote name='steveinneed']Religion is stupid. It is the cause of much violence in this world.[/QUOTE]

Eh, its more ideology and political power that leads to that.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']I think you mis-represent it. Someone like me hates all religion. So, if someone decides to post some article pointing out what such and such religion does something awful and/or stupid, I can just point to some other religion that does the exact same thing. It just so happens that the religion pointed to most frequently is Islam, and the easiest religion to point to that does similarily stupid things is Christianity.[/QUOTE]

Well, we are surrounded by Christianity in this country, so no surprise we can find some pretty stupid things if we look. But I don't think I misrepresent it. Just find some of camoor's postings. I'm sure he's spouting the same hateful crap he was when I put him on ignore.
 
bread's done
Back
Top