Seriously, though, Nintendo is overlooked.

JohnHam

JohnHam

CAGiversary!
Ninendo is an AAA company at the last place in this generation. For whatever reason, be it marketing or late release, they fell behind on the console front.

The Gamecube (which I don't even own) is coming out with some great titles every day that a lot of gmaers will never hear about. Even Nintendo published games like Mario Power Tennis could get lost in the shuffle this year.

And, on another note, the DS hype train is severely lacking, IMHO. The PSP seems to be getting more coverage and the DS is two weeks away!

They are both revolutionary machines, in their own ways, but Sony is the underdog, like it or not, so they are getting the attention.

So, while the old GameFAQer was annoying, he also had a point.

The End.

-John
 
Are you kidding? This is a thread for serious discussion, the other one disseminated into mindless flamewar in half a post.

If you are not interested in the topic, then leave, there will be no flaming, and this topic will not become another waste of space.
 
[quote name='JohnHam'][quote name='guyver2077']down with sony![/quote]

Seriously, what are you doing?[/quote]

nothing really
 
[quote name='guyver2077'][quote name='JohnHam'][quote name='guyver2077']down with sony![/quote]

Seriously, what are you doing?[/quote]

nothing really[/quote]

If you're trying to imply I'm a GCN fanboy, I'm not. I don't even own a GCN, I in fact just bought a PSTwo and have had an Xbox for a year now. Also, this is a GCN forum, so why is it considered automatic fanboyism to make a topic to discuss the problems and mistakes a company might have made?

Please, grow up.
 
Hmm, I didn't know the DS release was 2 weeks away, eh, I don't really care, I'm not even thinking about purchasing it anytime soon, I'm taking a wait and see attitude, same thing with the psp.
 
[quote name='guardian_owl']Hmm, I didn't know the DS release was 2 weeks away, eh, I don't really care, I'm not even thinking about it anytime soon.[/quote]

I'm not positive on the dates, but I'm pretty sure it's soon, within three weeks.

I think it's the 21st or 28th of November.
 
Ditto, I'll wait and see which one gets better games. Of course I somewhat despise handhelds in general, so I'll actually probobly get neither unless one of them really blows me away.
 
If I got either I'd probably get DS for price, battery life, and backwards compatbility.

I read somewhere that on a graphics-heavy game, the PSP won't last longer than 2.5 hours.
 
You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.
 
[quote name='Sheik Rattle Enroll']Ditto, I'll wait and see which one gets better games. Of course I somewhat despise handhelds in general, so I'll actually probobly get neither unless one of them really blows me away.[/quote]

That question was answered for me when they announced that they were porting Animal Crossing and adding multiplayer support. Signed, sealed, delivered.
 
I'd like to think that Nintendo is 2nd in the console wars. As for publicity, advertising, and hype for their products if you're not really interested in them you most likely won't notice or pay attention to them. Personally I've been waiting on the DS since early this year. I've also been following the progress of Mario Tennis since it was announced. But about a week or two ago I had no idea the release of GTA SA was so close.
 
[quote name='David85']You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.[/quote]

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...
 
[quote name='David85']You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.[/quote]

I really dont think that innovation is the cause for Nintendos "lack of success" lately. More or less, its Nintendo's lack of mainstream appeal, at least here in the US, thats causing this. I mean look at the games that sell more than anything else around here: Grand Theft Auto, Halo, Madden, basically any other sports title or FPS. Look at how well a game like Katamari Damacy has sold due to its originality and innovation. For coming out of no where, I'd say the game has done quite nice but hasn't done anything close to the numbers that the GTA's and Maddens have done and those games dont exactly bring the most innovation to the table. Plus, look at how many franchises Nintendo has under their belt: Mario, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Pikmin, F-Zero, Kirby, Pokemon, 1080, Custom Robo, Animal Crossing, Metroid, and any of the various games coming off of these series. Its hard to say that Nintendo isnt trying to do different things (Donkey Konga, Mario Pinball land) its just that people here don't eat it up like FPS's and sports games.
 
Lets see. National TV ad campaign. Pre-ordered so heavily two of the largest game retailers have stopped taking orders for fear of not being able to deliver enough units. Nope, no DS buildup happening that I can discern.

Seriously, the real impact of the DS will come with the word of mouth from a large number of people getting hands-on experience. It's hard to properly appreciate the product without that. As it stands, it appears Nintendo will quickly sell every unit they can ship this year. The real challenge won't be in launching big but in sustaining the momentum.

The GameCube's problems are quite simple. If you don't regard Nintendo's franchises as worth the purchase of a console then many will simply give the GameCube a miss. Without those Nintendo exclusives the platform really has no justification. That isn't to say the person who owns a GC and no other system is completely out of luck beyond Nintendo franchises but pretty much all of the third party GC titles worth mentioning are already multiplatform or headed that way.

This puts a lot of weight on those franchises and the occasional genuinely new item like Donkey Conga but Nintendo faces the ongoing battle of perception. No matter how many late teen and adult Nintendo players object, there is the persistent punishment for doing so well in the 12 and under market. Too many consumers are obsessed with how they think their product choices will be viewed by others, so a 16-year-old desparately hoping to to impress girls so badly he puts up a facade of maturity that means abandoning a perfectly good brand because it was part of the childhood he is now leaving behind.

I suspect another blessing/curse from Nintendo's past in Japan is turning up in the US today. N64 hardware sales in Japan after the launch were always low at best. In spite of this a major Nintendo franchise like StarFox still did a huge business. It became clear that a large number of gamers were buying used hardware to play a game purchase new at retail and selling off both when they were done with the gme, then repeating the process when something like Zelda showed up. This was great for Nintendo franchises but awful for third party publishers. Nintendo could just as easily have sold N64s with no cartridge slot and the game permanently embedded inside and still have made good money but lost out on the lucrative third party publishing royalties.

I suspect this is now happening with the GameCube. Used units can be had for as little as $30 after the resale value. For a person who really likes a handful of Nintendo franchises but doesn't think it worthwhile otherwise to own a GameCube the same approach as those Japanese N64 gamers may be practical. If the game is sold along with the GC the player should come close to breaking even and only paying for the game but not the hardware.
 
I think it also has something to do with the more mainstream, "mature" appeal that is being projected to most people that makes people pass by Nintendo more and more. But if Nintendo can make more great games like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door then they'll always have me coming back to them for more.
 
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='JohnHam']The Gamecube (which I don't even own) [/quote]

Hi. You're part of the problem.

-Josh[/quote]

I'm not made of money, man!

:lol:
 
I'd like to see the DS become more successful than the PSP because of the fact that Sony has had them under their foot for a while now.
 
[quote name='guyver2077'][quote name='JohnHam'][quote name='guyver2077']down with sony![/quote]

Seriously, what are you doing?[/quote]

nothing really[/quote]
:rofl:
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum'][quote name='David85']You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.[/quote]

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...[/quote]


All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.
 
i dunno y gamecube is over looked either. If i look at the most wanted charts...Zelda is beating Halo 2! i mean..we dunno nothing bout the zelda game n its on top of Halo2.
 
[quote name='JohnHam']Ninendo is an AAA company at the last place in this generation. For whatever reason, be it marketing or late release, they fell behind on the console front.[/quote]

This is why as a pretty serious gamer (have ~150 xbox games and ~75 ps2 games), I "overlooked" Gamecube this generation:

#1 - Controller too small, unintuitive button placement
Seriously, who thought up the button design? It might be okay for platformers, but for fighting games, sports games, or anything that needs more than 2 face buttons of equal importance its a mess. The dpad stinks also.

#2 - Poor third party support
After what happened to the N64, I was a bit cautious that the same might happen with Gamecube, and it did. Overwhelming lack of 3rd party games.

#3 - Technologically crippled
While being only second to the XBOX graphically, it lacks three key features; no digital output for 5.1 or 4.0 surround, no DVD support, no hard drive support.

#4 - Nintendo disregarded online play
I don't know about you but I love playing online. And when Nintendo said "console gamers aren't ready for online play," I said Nintendo has its head up its you-lnow-what.

#5 - Nintendo franchises are starting to get old
With a few exceptions, Nintendo continues to recycle the same old franchise characters and the same old gameplay packaged in new and shinier world. I prefer the more original games on XBOX & PS2.

#6 - Not enough game variety
As a result of #2 and #5, Nintendo has a lot of unique and platformer games, but is severely lacking in certain genres, like fighting, sports, and racing.
 
[quote name='Final Starman']I think it also has something to do with the more mainstream, "mature" appeal that is being projected to most people that makes people pass by Nintendo more and more. But if Nintendo can make more great games like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door then they'll always have me coming back to them for more.[/quote]

Final Starman, you have an incredible signature. That elephant is so well animated. Did you get it yourself from metal slug?
 
[quote name='Sartori']How is "Touch" the Magic "really" the only game to use the touch screen..?[/quote]

That game is the only one that touching the screen is needed. Mario Kart, Mario 64 and many other just use it as a map, Harvest Moon uses it to see what you have with you, but that's not going to change the way we game. The Sonic game is lame, run your fingure across it to make him move, just use the damn D-Pad.

Touch the Magic is the only one right now, name some others that will come out in the next two-three months that need to use the touch pad?
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='Sartori']How is "Touch" the Magic "really" the only game to use the touch screen..?[/quote]

That game is the only one that touching the screen is needed. Mario Kart, Mario 64 and many other just use it as a map, Harvest Moon uses it to see what you have with you, but that's not going to change the way we game. The Sonic game is lame, run your fingure across it to make him move, just use the damn D-Pad.

Touch the Magic is the only one right now, name some others that will come out in the next two-three months that need to use the touch pad?[/quote]

WarioWare DS is supposed to be all touch-manipulated.
 
And.. what about Prime Hunters? Or various other ideas imposed where you use the touch to make certain patterns, ala black and white, but not quite to do things?
 
[quote name='David85']
All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.[/quote]

Making more "mature" games would be pandering, not innovating. It's part of the reason I'm not as hyped for the next Zelda game. It feels too much like they compromised what they wanted to do with the game because a bunch of 13 year olds and adults-who-fear-kiddy-stuff bitched until their keyboards were awash in the blood of their fingertips. I personally would have preferred they just altered the animation style to match Link's age (like a Record of Lodoss War style, for instance).

But I digress.

I'll give you an example of why things don't need to be "mature" to be completely enjoyable. Pixar. If you've seen any of their movies, you've seen the brilliant melding of something that connects with people of many different age groups while remaining "family oriented," or for TEH KIDDIZ as some may say.

That's the type of balance that Nintendo is trying to find these days, with varying success. They largely fall short because they are too attached to their current set of mascots, but that doesn't take away from the fact that their games are still among the most fun out there. I own all three consoles, and the most fun I've had has been on the goofy looking purple box with the handle on it.

Oh, and the Eyetoy is crap. It's like those shitty games you see at mall kiosks that allow you to "play" tennis with some cheap plastic racket. The only difference is the Eyetoy has a marketing budget and a distribution deal. This is hardly a generation of innovation, it's more of an in-between, just as the SNES was great but really in between two leaps in design.
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='AdamInPlaidum'][quote name='David85']You want to know why the Gamecube is "failing"? Nintendo was always about "inovation", but all they do know is make sequel after sequel, the only new game they have mad eis Pikmin, no more innovation.

The DS seems to fix this, but right now the touch screen in most of the games is pointless. I mean look at Harvest Moon DS. I thought the bottom one would be for moving, or your supplies, it's for a picture of your cow, or who you are talking to. It is completely pointless.[/quote]

Actually, the touch screen IS used for your supplies. Only when you talk to your animals does it bring up their picture. And then you wash/pet/shear them. Sounds like fun, in a very Harvest Moon sort of way.

As for sequel-itis, I agree Nintendo pumps out a TON of sequels. But you are saying the PS2 or XBox are better? Xbox's holiday season is completely banking on a sequel. The PS2 just recieved 4 of its most anticipated games ever, all sequels. So if are yearning for a system that doesnt put out tons of sequels (really really good sequels, I might add), perhaps you should stick to Dreamcast. I'm guessing it won't see even one sequel this holiday season. :wink:

IMO, Nintendo's biggest problem is they will have a fresh game concept, and then go and slap a Nintendo character on it instead of creating new characters. Look at Donkey Konga/Jungle Beat. Konga (by no means fresh for Japan, but something fairly new for America) and Jungle Beat (a completely new concept, and by all reported accounts, fun as hell) were both chances for Nintendo to create new characters. Instead, they went with the obvious and slapped DK on it.

Of course, I say that, but I would still give one of my kidneys for a Legend of Zelda fighter or a Pokemon MMORPG. Sigh...[/quote]


All the DS pics I have seen were people and animals on the bottom screen, still the info down there only makes it a little better.

The only game the touch screen is really used for now is "Touch the Magic" or whatever it is called.

Yes the PS2 has a lot of sequels but they are willing to take risks, hell they did the camra thing too that Nintendo was never willing to go through with. Nintendo's because "risk" this gen was Celda, wow, it was like every other Adventure game out there. The Jak games and things like that add more each game, something Nintendo is not willing to do.

Donkey Kona isn't new either, its a drum game with DK, wow. There is a bad pinball game they added "Mario" in the title. Like IGN said Nintendo is not willing to make new games and just wants to add famous names to game. They used Dinosaur Planet aka Star Fox Adventures as a great example of that.

Nintendo is no longer appealing to many, that's why they need to do new things. Make more mature games like Metriod Prime. They can make the older games and try to come out with newer games that will appeal to the older crowd. That stupid Japanese Golf game doesn't count.[/quote]

You very obviously are making quite a few assumptions without any information. While Feel the Magic is the only launch titlle designed to be played with nothing but the stylus, Mr. Driller can be played with only the touch screen, and Tiger Woods, Madden, and Spider-Man 2 have several extras using it.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/563/563218p1.html
There. I looked it up for you. Read, ass.

Onto Wind Waker...to say its like every other adventure game out there is a straight up insult. Without be too fanboy-ish I think I can safely say that Zelda is the standard that all adventure games are measured by, cel-shaded or no. Jak and Ratchet are in their 3rd installments. Even Metal Gear Solid is just now hitting its 3rd game. Zelda is onto adventure number 9 with LoZ 2005 (counting Ages/Seasons as one adventure). If Jak 8 is as good for its time as Wind Waker is for the current, I would be very surprised.

I didn't say Donkey Konga was new, I said it was fairly new for America. And then you have apparently taken something I said, and said the same thing in response. Nintendo doesn't lack game innovation, just character innovation.
 
While Nintendo is still the premier developer in this industry, IMHO, I concede their last few efforts have been lacking. The Wind Waker suffered from tired gameplay mechaics, Donkey Konga is not exactly revolutionary, Pikmin 2 is closer to Pikmin 1.5 and more of an expansion rather than a true sequel, and while it hasn't been released yet, Metroid Prime Echoes Dark vs. Light world already has me experiencing deja vu. Fortunately for Nintendo fans, this does not appear to be unique to just Nintendo. With a few exceptions, the entire industry is suffering from this syndrome at the moment. Neither San Andreas or Halo 2 are offering anything truly new or unique based on what I have read thus far (not to say it's not in there).

I have also noticed several CAG's referencing IGN Cube's / N-Sider's latest editorial, "Playing It Safe." It is true we have seen Mario, Donkey Kong, and Fox tied into genres that could have been used to expand the Nintendo Universe. However, leveraging these characters is not the issue. Allowing premier second party developers to remake four year old PSOne games (then ending the relationship) is the issue. Allowing the development studio that carried the N64 through its final days to be swallowed by the competition is the issue. Neglecting online play, the true revolution for this generation of console, and actually marketing GBA to GCN connectivity as a legitimate alternative is the issue. Ignoring the changing demographics of the industry is the issue.

I'm worried these missteps by Nintendo will continue. It didn't take SONY long after Nintendo released the N64 to figure out 3D gameplay worked better with analog control. Once the N64 was released, SONY rushed that abomination of a controller to market and even stuck with it for the PS2. However, now that Nintendo has a handheld capable of displaying true 3D, we are without analog control. I hope I am proved wrong, but I fear the touch screen is not the answer.

History has also shown market segmentation can lead to disaster. Why confuse the average consumer with the DS and the GameBoy? No one seriously sees the DS as anything but the successor to the GameBoy. So why drop the GameBoy brand name from the product? One could argue the GameBoy brand is now more recognizable than Nintendo itself.

Finally, with all the hype around DS's wireless connectivity, it is shameful no launch game is expected to make use of this functionality.

With all that said, my platform of choice still carries the Nintendo name. I have enjoyed Halo on my Xbox, and have even pre-ordered Halo 2. Unfortunately, I have found little else that interests me there. The PS2, again IMHO, is the worst console of this generation. The console king, GTA, is mediocre at best. All of the gameplay staples (control, graphics, and audio) have been poorly implemented. Unfortunately, as the average gamer now pushes 30 years-of-age, this is where the audience has gone. If Nintendo expects to remain competitive they must at least create an environment that is conducive to these genres even if they do not wish to develop these genres themselves.
 
[quote name='Plumberboy']While Nintendo is still the premier developer in this industry, IMHO, I concede their last few efforts have been lacking. The Wind Waker suffered from tired gameplay mechaics, Donkey Konga is not exactly revolutionary, Pikmin 2 is closer to Pikmin 1.5 and more of an expansion rather than a true sequel, and while it hasn't been released yet, Metroid Prime Echoes Dark vs. Light world already has me experiencing deja vu. Fortunately for Nintendo fans, this does not appear to be unique to just Nintendo. With a few exceptions, the entire industry is suffering from this syndrome at the moment. Neither San Andreas or Halo 2 are offering anything truly new or unique based on what I have read thus far (not to say it's not in there).

I have also noticed several CAG's referencing IGN Cube's / N-Sider's latest editorial, "Playing It Safe." It is true we have seen Mario, Donkey Kong, and Fox tied into genres that could have been used to expand the Nintendo Universe. However, leveraging these characters is not the issue. Allowing premier second party developers to remake four year old PSOne games (then ending the relationship) is the issue. Allowing the development studio that carried the N64 through its final days to be swallowed by the competition is the issue. Neglecting online play, the true revolution for this generation of console, and actually marketing GBA to GCN connectivity as a legitimate alternative is the issue. Ignoring the changing demographics of the industry is the issue.

I'm worried these missteps by Nintendo will continue. It didn't take SONY long after Nintendo released the N64 to figure out 3D gameplay worked better with analog control. Once the N64 was released, SONY rushed that abomination of a controller to market and even stuck with it for the PS2. However, now that Nintendo has a handheld capable of displaying true 3D, we are without analog control. I hope I am proved wrong, but I fear the touch screen is not the answer.

History has also shown market segmentation can lead to disaster. Why confuse the average consumer with the DS and the GameBoy. No one seriously sees the DS as anything but the successor to the GameBoy. So why drop the GameBoy brand name from the product. One could argue the GameBoy brand is now more recognizable than Nintendo itself.

Finally, with all the hype around DS's wireless connectivity, it is shameful no launch game is expected to make use of this functionality.

With all that said, my platform of choice still carries the Nintendo name. I have enjoyed Halo on my Xbox, and have even pre-ordered Halo 2. However I have found little else that interests me there. The PS2, again IMHO, is the worst console of this generation. The console king, GTA, is mediocre at best. All of the gameplay staples (control, graphics, and audio) have been poorly implemented. Unfortunately, as the average gamer now pushes 30 years-of-age, this is where the audience has gone. If Nintendo expects to remain competitive they must at least create an environment that is conducive to these genres even if they do not wish to develop these genres themselves.[/quote]

That is a really, really good second (maybe first) post. Way to go.
 
[quote name='Plumberboy']As Nintendo would say, it's about quality, not quantity.[/quote]

I think you've got that backwards if your refering to your posts.
 
I think Nintendo's big problem is they have a serious lack of good game designers and rely on Miyamoto for everything, but he's being spread thinner and thinner.
 
[quote name='Sheik Rattle Enroll']I think Nintendo's big problem is they have a serious lack of good game designers and rely on Miyamoto for everything, but he's being spread thinner and thinner.[/quote]

I'm not sure this is entirely true. While no company appears to be as reliant on one individual as Nintendo is Shigeru Miyamoto, I believe Nintendo has among the best designers/developers in the world. As third party support diminishes on the GCN and Nintendo ramps up development for the DS, I would assume the Revolution as well, their staff is certainly being spread thinner and thinner.
 
So they are making regular games that can be played on any system and just adding a touch screen for the DS. That is not innovating, thats just porting, so still Feel the Magic is the only one.

When I say try more "mature" things I mean make more shooters like MP, add some twists and what not. Stop making every game cute. Nintendo has the DS game "Another" thats good, a different type of game for them and the only DS game they are making that is not a huge famous franchise in it's name.

Is it pandering to give gamers what they want? No, Nintendo can still make the old famous games, but less and less are going to buy them because they never take risks in a game. The waterpack in Mario Sunshine was not a risk, it was lame and took away from the most important part of Mario, the jumping.
 
pan·der
Definition: To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others

If the style they intend for their characters does not match a "mature" vision, then yes, it would be pandering. I'll draw on Pixar again. Would The Incredibles have had the same charm if it was dark, brooding, and violent? No.

Also, if you think any other companies are taking risks with their million-seller franchises, you're deluded. Since the release of the first R&C, or Jak, or Splinter Cell, what have they done other than add little tweaks here and there? Add a goatee to Jak? Sony and Microsoft are in a process of establishing franchises. The Playstation was not strong in franchises, so this gen is the first time Sony has really pushed a few good titles out there that drive sequels. Microsoft has Halo, and to a lesser extent Blinx, which we will be sure to see many, many times over the next generation.

Don't fault Nintendo for being around longer.
 
I'm not faulting because Nintendo has been around longer. I'm complaining that they never try something new. I'm not going "Nintendo needs to make Mario mature", Nintendo needs to improve Mario. try new things. The water pack was lame and added nothing to the gameplay, just too the jumping away.

Nintendo does need to "pander", every company does a little otherwise they will fail. Nintendo can be "mature", and innovating without making fun of the Nintendo fanboys and girls. How hard would it be for Nintendo to come out and support online gaming? If they just supported it, not even do it themselves, they would get a lot of third party support back, they don't want to take risks like the old Nintendo would and thats why they are no longer on top.
 
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