Split court rules against Bush on greenhouse gases

Ikohn4ever

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ordered the federal government on Monday to take a fresh look at regulating carbon dioxide emissions from cars, a rebuke to Bush administration policy on global warming.

In a 5-4 decision, the court said the Clean Air Act gives the Environmental Protection Agency the authority to regulate the emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases from cars.

Greenhouse gases are air pollutants under the landmark environmental law, Justice John Paul Stevens said in his majority opinion.

The court's four conservative justices -- Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas -- dissented.

Many scientists believe greenhouse gases, flowing into the atmosphere at an unprecedented rate, are leading to a warming of the Earth, rising sea levels and other marked ecological changes.

The politics of global warming have changed dramatically since the court agreed last year to hear its first global warming case.

Democrats took control of Congress last November. The world's leading climate scientists reported in February that global warming is "very likely" caused by man and is so severe that it will "continue for centuries." Former Vice President Al Gore's movie, An Inconvenient Truth -- making the case for prompt action on climate change -- won an Oscar. Business leaders are saying they are increasingly open to congressional action to reduce greenhouse gases emissions, of which carbon dioxide is the largest.

Carbon dioxide is produced when fossil fuels such as oil and natural gas are burned. One way to reduce those emissions is to have more fuel-efficient cars.

The court had three questions before it.

--Do states have the right to sue the EPA to challenge its decision?

--Does the Clean Air Act give EPA the authority to regulate tailpipe emissions of greenhouse gases?

--Does EPA have the discretion not to regulate those emissions?

The court said yes to the first two questions. On the third, it ordered EPA to re-evaluate its contention it has the discretion not to regulate tailpipe emissions. The court said the agency has so far provided a "laundry list" of reasons that include foreign policy considerations.

The majority said the agency must tie its rationale more closely to the Clean Air Act.

"EPA has offered no reasoned explanation for its refusal to decide whether greenhouse gases cause or contribute to climate change," Stevens said. He was joined by his liberal colleagues, Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter, and the court's swing voter, Justice Anthony Kennedy.

The lawsuit was filed by 12 states and 13 environmental groups that had grown frustrated by the Bush administration's inaction on global warming.

In his dissent, Roberts focused on the issue of standing, whether a party has the right to file a lawsuit.

The court should simply recognize that redress of the kind of grievances spelled out by the state of Massachusetts is the function of Congress and the chief executive, not the federal courts, Roberts said.

His position "involves no judgment on whether global warming exists, what causes it, or the extent of the problem," he said.

The decision also is expected to boost California's prospects for gaining EPA approval of its own program to limit tailpipe emissions of greenhouse gases. Federal law considers the state a laboratory on environmental issues and gives California the right to seek approval of standards that are stricter than national norms.






not lets see this decision get the gears rolling
 
It's not global warming, it's global climate change, let's get the fucking name correct.

The Earth with always warm, humans MIGHT be making it raise out of control, but i nthe long run the planet will be fine.
 
I guess this is a good thing. The article isn't helpful at all.

Did we ever sign the Kyoto Accords? I can't remember. Either way, humans contribute, not cause global warming. Let's get that straight right now.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I guess this is a good thing. The article isn't helpful at all.

Did we ever sign the Kyoto Accords? I can't remember. Either way, humans contribute, not cause global warming. Let's get that straight right now.[/QUOTE]



the US and Australia didnt sign Kyoto
 
So, the court decided there was no rational explanation for NOT regulating something. Meaning, at least, according to leftists, that everything should be government regulated. I guess nothing less than making their own laws should be expected of them.

Bye, bye free country. It was nice knowing ya.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']So, the court decided there was no rational explanation for NOT regulating something. Meaning, at least, according to leftists, that everything should be government regulated. I guess nothing less than making their own laws should be expected of them.

Bye, bye free country. It was nice knowing ya.[/quote]

While I don't agree with your analysis of the situation, the country hasn't been free for a long time.
 
"the country hasn't been free for a long time"... Pardon me but my parents came from cuba (you prolly dont want to hear the long story so im just gonna sum it up real quickly) and that sure aint a free country, so if your trieng to tell me that the USA isn't a free country that is your perogative but buddy do i have a suprise there aint no other country with as much liberties as the USA, you have so many oppurtunities in this country to prosper that if you dont its a damn shame. My parents came here with a few cuban pesos back in the early 60's and know my father works as a pharmicist and my mother as a realtor. You tell me what other country is that free, that you can come here with nothing and become so prosperous.. People like you telling me & others that this country hasnt been free for a long time just cant be tolerated and is disgusting, cant you come up with a better argument..Geeez..People these days whine about just about every silly thing.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']the US and Australia didnt sign Kyoto[/QUOTE]

Correct. But we should also point out that most countries that signed on to the idiocy that is Kyoto either (A) aren't doing what they promised (all of Europe), or (B) have no restrictions on them so they don't give a shit either way (China, India). In any case, Kyoto was a disaster for the carbon-control folks in the sense that they lose if it is enacted or if it isn't, since enacting it would make little difference in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. What is needed is a real alternative to Kyoto that has a real effect (as well as more climate research, obviously).
 
[quote name='The Crotch']
Bull-fucking-shit.
I am comparing the country that my parents came from towards the USA, if you dont like it well too bad.He says its not free i could name a million more that arent as free as the US.
We could spend a lot of time talking about the particular reasons as to why this is so, but I think we both know that this is very unlikely. There is less upward mobility in the US than in a number of European nations or Canada. I'm a lazy man, but I can cite my sources if you wish.
I never mentioned EU or Canada because that had nothing to do with the topic.To what i was posting about.I know that these countries are free but who is the most prosperous the USA.



Didn't I run into this assertion a few sentences ago? These things respawn worse than enemies in Serious Sam...
I am sorry you despise my repeating but take it to heart its for people who dont really care about the US who just want to hammer it as much as they can.

Assertion != Argument. I can guess what Camoor was talking about, but he really should have expanded upon his post instead of doing a simple drive-by.
You make stupid comments you deserve a stupid answer
Damn, man - you just said that Camoor (or maybe his comment, but I'm pretty sure Camoor) was "disgusting" and "cant be tolerated". Who are you to complain about excessive whining?
Did I mention his name around my post nope, but i did mention i disagreed with his opinion of the USA.Its a great country if you dont like it then grab a visa and head to canada or the EU like you said.

And if I didn't have such a problem with the comma-splice myself, I would have shown you whining about "silling things". *grumble*

Pardon me I am not an English professor but maybe you could show me a few things about comma's since you yourself commit to be one.
 
[quote name='ttriber']I am comparing the country that my parents came from towards the USA, if you dont like it well too bad.He says its not free i could name a million more that arent as free as the US.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are countries that don't have all the freedoms we do. But that's not what you said. To wit: "there aint no other country with as much liberties as the USA" ... and that's demonstrably untrue. Personally, I wouldn't give up free speech for legalized marajuana and gay marriage, but to act like no other country has as many freedoms as we do shows how little you know of any other country.

[quote name='ttriber']I never mentioned EU or Canada because that had nothing to do with the topic.To what i was posting about.I know that these countries are free but who is the most prosperous the USA.[/QUOTE]

That's also arguably incorrect by most standards, like national debt, or standard of living for its citizens, or even how the currency is doing at the moment. I'm sure someone could put together numbers to "make it correct," but I somehow doubt that's what you're doing.

[quote name='ttriber']I am sorry you despise my repeating but take it to heart its for people who dont really care about the US who just want to hammer it as much as they can.[/QUOTE]

Don't be ridiculous. Can you honestly find nothing about the US that could be improved in any way, shape, or form? Does that mean you hate the country? C'mon now.

[quote name='ttriber']Did I mention his name around my post nope, but i did mention i disagreed with his opinion of the USA.Its a great country if you dont like it then grab a visa and head to canada or the EU like you said.[/QUOTE]

See above.
 
[quote name='trq']Yes, there are countries that don't have all the freedoms we do. But that's not what you said. To wit: "there aint no other country with as much liberties as the USA" ... and that's demonstrably untrue. Personally, I wouldn't give up free speech for legalized marajuana and gay marriage, but to act like no other country has as many freedoms as we do shows how little you know of any other country.



That's also arguably incorrect by most standards, like national debt, or standard of living for its citizens, or even how the currency is doing at the moment. I'm sure someone could put together numbers to "make it correct," but I somehow doubt that's what you're doing.



Don't be ridiculous. Can you honestly find nothing about the US that could be improved in any way, shape, or form? Does that mean you hate the country? C'mon now.



See above.[/QUOTE]

Immigrants from less developed countries always have a rose-colored view of things once they arrive. Cut him some slack. I'm sure you've had plenty of time to assess the pros and cons of our system of government and our economic system. A new immigrant (or even an old one) just sees the opportunity and good things that can happen if they try hard enough.

If the natural-born population had half the drive, zeal and hope that people like ttriber and his family do, think of how great this country would be. And we'd still find just as many faults eventually.
 
Yes, there are countries that don't have all the freedoms we do. But that's not what you said. To wit: "there aint no other country with as much liberties as the USA" ... and that's demonstrably untrue. Personally, I wouldn't give up free speech for legalized marajuana and gay marriage, but to act like no other country has as many freedoms as we do shows how little you know of any other country.

I am trieng to tell you that there are alot of oppurtunities in this country, the oppurtunities arent limited like in communist cuba.Pardon my verbage i may have misspoken but this country gives so many oppurtunities that is unbelivable.

That's also arguably incorrect by most standards, like national debt, or standard of living for its citizens, or even how the currency is doing at the moment. I'm sure someone could put together numbers to "make it correct," but I somehow doubt that's what you're doing.

What I am trying to tell you is that you have oppurtunities to better yourself in this country.The fella named The Crotch was making a fool of himself with that sily statement that we havent been free for a long time.


Don't be ridiculous. Can you honestly find nothing about the US that could be improved in any way, shape, or form? Does that mean you hate the country? C'mon now.

No Country is perfect, the USA has things that i dont agree with as well for ex. left wing idealogs, the ACLU "American Counter Liberties Union", i could name a ton more. But the problem is you always seem to see the flaws in just about everything arent you proud to live in a country that you dont even have to go to the military. In some countries you are obligated to join the military. I could say alot more but im gonna restrain myself from writing so much.
 
Let's say the court used the same argument and ruled that there is no compelling reason not to regulate the sale of videogames in order to protect us from violent children.

As even my friend Mykevermin would hopefully observe from this backwards logic of proving a negative, the premise is that governments' duty is to regulate everything and provide a reason for not regulating something.

Don't you think it would be more logical to have to provide a compelling reason FOR a regulation instead of it's inverse?
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Immigrants from less developed countries always have a rose-colored view of things once they arrive. Cut him some slack. I'm sure you've had plenty of time to assess the pros and cons of our system of government and our economic system. A new immigrant (or even an old one) just sees the opportunity and good things that can happen if they try hard enough.

If the natural-born population had half the drive, zeal and hope that people like ttriber and his family do, think of how great this country would be. And we'd still find just as many faults eventually.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, amigo, fair enough.

I actually got the impression he's second gen, and I figure if the guy knows enough of the system to have an axe to grind with the ACLU, he's probably fair game, but you're not wrong.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Don't forget Canada. Our Liberal government signed it then totally ignored it. When the Conservatives came to power, they dropped any pretense of following Kyoto, and threw the whole thing out the window. This shocked the suddenly-green Liberals, who are trying to force the government to meet in a few years the commitments they've been ignoring since they signed the damn thing. And even if the opposition parties do manage to ram that one through, the government plans to totally ignore(!) them. Bravo, my government![/QUOTE]

Well, the point is that it doesn't matter if Canada follows Kyoto or not. Canada's emissions increase (? if they increase ?) is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to China and India. In other words, as every realist has conceded, any agreement not incorporating the biggest polluters (industrialized countries) and the biggest polluters in the near future (China (could argue present now, see the article on this forum about it), India) is a farce.
 
bread's done
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