Stampers to Rare: "Peace out."

Microsoft's heavy hand was a little too much for them? After watching the way MS was riding Epic in the Making of Gears videos, I can only assume they keep all their devs on a tight leash.

The question is -- 1) will this make Banjo Threeie suck and 2) Will they start up a new studio and somehow magically get the Bond rights and make a game that was as fun as Goldeneye? (oh please oh please)
 
[quote name='getmyrunon']Microsoft's heavy hand was a little too much for them? After watching the way MS was riding Epic in the Making of Gears videos, I can only assume they keep all their devs on a tight leash.

The question is -- 1) will this make Banjo Threeie suck and 2) Will they start up a new studio and somehow magically get the Bond rights and make a game that was as fun as Goldeneye? (oh please oh please)[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine the departure of 2 people will make a game suddenly suck. Then again, IDK to what extent what kind of creative role the brothers had at Rare.

Also, I'm kind of curious what sparked this, is it because Rare was unhappy, or was it Microsoft?
 
[quote name='getmyrunon']Microsoft's heavy hand was a little too much for them? After watching the way MS was riding Epic in the Making of Gears videos, I can only assume they keep all their devs on a tight leash.
[/QUOTE]

Here's the difference though - Gears of War came out amazing, Perfect Dark Zero sucked ass and Kameo is quickly forgotten about.

Grabbed by the Ghoulies was pretty shitty for the most part, Conker was just a remake, and I can't think of anything else Rare has done lately.

Their track record is HORRIBLE... maybe MS was riding them too hard to make a good game and Rare just can't do it anymore? I don't know why everyone thinks Banjo - Threeie will be so awesome... Rare's track record is abysmal, and the game will probably be some deriative shit that is hyped up, get mediocre reviews, and everyone forgets about it quickly.

MS should tell Rare "peace out", they wasted boatloads of cash in acquiring them and it hasn't even come close to paying off.

Now, with the Stampers gone, Rare goes from shitty to even more shitty.
 
Have the Stampers contributed anything positive since Donkey Kong Country? They've been trying to find a reason to retire ever since their Nintendo days.

That being said, $375 million for an over-the-hill company was destined to be a losing situation.
 
Wait, I forgot in my post that Rare FINALLY put out a good game with Viva Pinata, but I think if you throw enough shit at the wall eventually something will stick.

I still think Banjo Threeie will blow, however.

Amazing that in my mind I blocked out Viva Pinata as being made by Rare simply because it's a good game.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']
Grabbed by the Ghoulies was pretty shitty for the most part, Conker was just a remake, and I can't think of anything else Rare has done lately.[/QUOTE]

VIVA PINATA :bomb:
 
[quote name='Sporadic']VIVA PINATA :bomb:[/QUOTE]

Yea, you missed my new post I made instead of editing, and the reason why I forgot Viva Pinata ;)
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Yea, you missed my new post I made instead of editing, and the reason why I forgot Viva Pinata ;)[/QUOTE]

:) I didn't miss it. Look at the times.
 
Rare leaves Nintendo and they suck now.

Silicon Knights leaves Nintendo and all signs point to Too Human being a horrendous game. I remember an EGM story stating why Eternal Darkness was delayed and Nintendo clamored to have SK work on the combat system to make it more creative and intuitive. Six months later one of the best games on the GC was released.

Most under Nintendo's aegis seems to release gold.
 
The TimeSplitters games from Free Radical Design has been great. Thats probably where Rare's talent went.
 
[quote name='strayfoxx']Rare leaves Nintendo and they suck now.
[/QUOTE]

Rare started sucking even before leaving Nintendo... imo, Perfect Dark was a pretty horrible game, I don't get why people loved it so much, it was a blurry ugly shitty mess.

Hell, even Donkey Kong Country 3 wasn't so hot espically compared to the first two, and Donkey Kong 64 was a complete and utter mess.

They have ALWAYS been extremely hit or miss.
 
A Lot of the original Halo and now Halo 2 people are gone now too you know. Doesnt mean Halo 3 is going to blow. The purchase of Rare was strategic in getting the brand name and IP's. MS at the time had little to none recognizable IP's. Perfect Dark,Banjo Kazzoie ect helped them in a that way.
 
Well when Rare first left Nintendo there were stories about how people inside Rare hated the switch and were miserable or something.


Thats all I can remember to add at about 1:30 after about 3 hours of R6:Vegas.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Rare started sucking even before leaving Nintendo... imo, Perfect Dark was a pretty horrible game, I don't get why people loved it so much, it was a blurry ugly shitty mess.

Hell, even Donkey Kong Country 3 wasn't so hot espically compared to the first two, and Donkey Kong 64 was a complete and utter mess.

They have ALWAYS been extremely hit or miss.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't even go as far to say DKC was worthwhile. I know many folks became known of them at that point, but the game was crap. Almost setting a precedent for their following platformers, it was a snooze-fest collect-a-thon. Rare is great at creating characters, but gameplay has never been their strong point.

I should point out that I actually did enjoy Kameo.

I imagine Microsoft just got sick of their creative process taking 3-4 years before turning out something medicore that Rare's fanbase, but no one else, seems to enjoy. The Rare purchase came at an unusual time for Microsoft. It was at that odd time Ed Fries was so anxious at picking up any platformers to release on the console. My guess is when he left, the remaining Xbox board was just sick of Rare's releases and put pressure on them to develop better games. After churning out four duds (well, two duds and two passable titles), I imagine it was a sad time at Rare HQ.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Here's the difference though - Gears of War came out amazing, Perfect Dark Zero sucked ass and Kameo is quickly forgotten about.

Grabbed by the Ghoulies was pretty shitty for the most part, Conker was just a remake, and I can't think of anything else Rare has done lately.

Their track record is HORRIBLE... maybe MS was riding them too hard to make a good game and Rare just can't do it anymore? I don't know why everyone thinks Banjo - Threeie will be so awesome... Rare's track record is abysmal, and the game will probably be some deriative shit that is hyped up, get mediocre reviews, and everyone forgets about it quickly.

MS should tell Rare "peace out", they wasted boatloads of cash in acquiring them and it hasn't even come close to paying off.

Now, with the Stampers gone, Rare goes from shitty to even more shitty.[/quote]


Well, 1 out of 5 ain't bad...oh, wait a minute...
 
I don't know why everybody is hating on Rare. Sure, PDZ was a rushed launch game that won't be remembered fondly and Kameo was shoved out the door to appeal to the platforming market.

The departure of 2 people will not make a difference. Microsoft bought Rare to get into the market that Nintendo finds profitable and Sony and Microsoft are neglecting: children. Viva is a step in the right direction (and DAMN is that game fun) and Banjo will probably be good as well.

IMO-
Blast Corps = decent
Goldeneye = golden
Banjo 1 and 2 = great
Diddy Kong Racing = great
Jet Force Gemeni = great
Perfect Dark = great
Conker = Great
Kameo = decent
PDZ = decent to meh
Viva Pinata = great +

That is pretty good for any dev. I know I am forgetting a couple of games, but damn, it's late. Switching bosses/management always takes time and if Viva is any indication, the people at Rare are ready to make some great games.
 
Well seeing as how I have no clue what the Stamper Bros. rolls were, I can't say if this is bad news or not. But from a distance it doesn't seem like it is.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Wait, I forgot in my post that Rare FINALLY put out a good game with Viva Pinata, but I think if you throw enough shit at the wall eventually something will stick.[/QUOTE]

Somebody tell Acclaim.

That said, much will be made of this, but ultimately, it's only two people for a developmental studio whose career highlights consisted of a fighting game (Killer Instinct) and a platform series (DKC) that were pushed on the graphical innovation they had at the time. Personally, I don't think KI has aged well at all.

They also gave us the much-lauded (and deserved) Goldeneye. Sure. That was a flash in the pan game; FPS titles are too frequent and varied to have not been surpassed. I'm still a fan of GE, but that's because I love me some Bond (I played through From Russia with Love, for fuck's sake).

In the end, the verdict on Rare is this: if you weren't a gamer at the time these titles came out, it's hard to figure out why their games were unique, revolutionary, innovative, or even interesting. It's possible (which is more than I can say about some games), but rather hard.

That said, they're a solid developer, but that's like saying Kiss is a "nice little band." Expectations are far too high for Rare for them to deliver slighty-above-average title, one after another. I don't know if things got too stressful for the Stampers, but given the "Chinese Democracy"-like levels of delays on many of their titles, they could use some tighter leashes over there, in my opinion.

Wow. I've wasted a great deal of post saying that this is pretty much an inconsequential story about Rare.

EDIT: Also allow me to point out something: who the fuck says "peace out" anymore? Last time that was cool, Bell Biv Devoe was at the top of the charts. ;)

[quote name='captmurphy']IMO-
Blast Corps = decent
Goldeneye = golden
Banjo 1 and 2 = great
Diddy Kong Racing = great
Jet Force Gemeni = great
Perfect Dark = great
Conker = Great
Kameo = decent
PDZ = decent to meh
Viva Pinata = great +[/QUOTE]

That's precisely the point, though (what's hidden in your post): you go from N64 titles...to Xbox 360. They put out two titles on the original Xbox, and one of them was version 1.5 of a title they'd already put out.

As for Kameo's underappreciation, wasn't it supposed to be a late-term N64 title? I know it was being developed for the Gamecube for certain, but part of me also thinks it goes back farther than that.
 
This might actually be a good thing.
[quote name='strayfoxx']Rare leaves Nintendo and they suck now.[/QUOTE]
They started falling off of things a little before Donkey Kong 64 -- not necessarily in content, but how things were operating.
[quote name='mykevermin']As for Kameo's underappreciation, wasn't it supposed to be a late-term N64 title? I know it was being developed for the Gamecube for certain, but part of me also thinks it goes back farther than that.[/QUOTE]
Nintendo 64, I thought.
 
[quote name='captmurphy']

IMO-
Blast Corps = decent
Goldeneye = golden
Banjo 1 and 2 = great
Diddy Kong Racing = great
Jet Force Gemeni = great
Perfect Dark = great
Conker = Great
Starfox Adventures = average
Kameo = decent
PDZ = decent to meh
Viva Pinata = great +
[/QUOTE]

You left out Donkey Kong 64. They have been hit or miss lately but their history tells another story. They are definitely a better than average company:

RC Pro Am = great
Donkey Kong Country(s) = good
Blast Corps = golden
Goldeneye = golden
Banjo 1 and 2 = great
Diddy Kong Racing = good
Jet Force Gemeni = great
Perfect Dark = average
Donkey Kong 64 = average
Conker = (? haven't played)
Grabbed By the Ghoulies = average
Kameo = great
PDZ = decent to meh
Viva Pinata = great +
 
Didn't Rare also do Battletoads? I've always thought of them as a good developer, but not masters like Miyamato (sp?). In other words, where I will buy a new Mario or Zelda title without reviews, I will wait on a review for the new Rare titles.

They suffered a rather large backlash due to how insane hype over them went after Goldeneye, and how many Nintendo fans felt betrayed when they left.
 
[quote name='elwood731']They suffered a rather large backlash due to how insane hype over them went after Goldeneye, and how many Nintendo fans felt betrayed when they left.[/QUOTE]

I'd say it's more a case of the former than the latter. If they had delivered a solid title post-Goldeneye, something that made people say, "fuck, I *got* to play that!" then loyalty wouldn't matter.

Let me phrase it this way: who are a bigger pile of ultradefensive, super-snotty, brand-loyal pretentious assholes than Nintendo fans?

Right, Mac users. We (the royal 'we') were fucking LIVID when Bungie let themselves be bought by Microsoft (who was, and is, the computer industry's "The Iron Sheik" to Apple's "Hulk Hogan"). Halo had been in development for the Mac for over a year or so (and, from all accounts, seemed to me to be a game more akin to what Halo Wars looks like it's becoming).

We didn't know then, of course, that Halo would be the tour-de-force it would become, but we knew that we lost one of two developers who had been loyal to the Mac (most big name titles would come out anywhere from 6 months to 2 years after initial release on the Macintosh, while Blizzard would release dual-format discs at launch, and Bungie was exclusive to the Mac, save for an occasional port after the Mac launch).

I'm sure only Mac nerds recall that controversy, because the other 97% of the computer market couldn't fucking care less. ;) At any rate, as people played Halo, that they left and were bought by their enemy was completely (I think) forgotten, as people found out that, no matter who they developed for, Halo was a fucking *awesome* game.

Again, longwinded for no real reason, but to say that loyalty probably isn't part of the equation, but, rather, their inability to deliver a top-notch title until just recently (and one that will be missed by many as a result of its childlike appeal).
 
The Stamper Bros. have been talking about retiring for YEARS now. I'm surprised they stayed this long. They probably wanted to be there to get Rare through the transition to Microsoft.

And IMO there games are as good as ever. The Donkey Kong Country games were insanly overhyped because of pretty graphics. Gameplay-wise there were TONS of much better 8-bit platformers, let alone stuff on the Genesis and SNES.

I hated Kameo (to my surprise), but loved Perfect Dark Zero, and think it's their best FPS by a big margin (and one of the more fun traditional FPS I've played-probably my favorite console shooter). And then I'm REALLY looking forward to Viva Pinata. I think that's Microsoft's only big release for me last year (unless I'm forgetting something).

And you guys are forgetting the great Banjo Kazooie game for the GBA that came out a couple years back. That was really fun too.
 
Regardless of what people say, this is pretty big news. The Stamper Bros. gave direction to Rare as a whole, even if Microsoft had them on a tight leash. It's no different than if Miyamoto retired from Nintendo (although on nowhere near the same level). When the sale was initially made by Nintendo to Microsoft for the company, everyone said that it was a dumb move by Microsoft since the important people in the company could just quit and Microsoft would be left with a shell of a company and that's pretty much what happened. It just took them something like three or four years to get to it.

I see everyone trying to rationalize their departure as, 'well they kinda' sucked anyway', but I think Viva Pinata proves different and that rationality is just a cop-out. Donkey Kong Country was a great game and it gave the SNES a hell of a push in Nintendo's early battle against the PSX and the Saturn. Everyone knows Goldeneye. And who do you think forced Star Fox onto their Dinosaur Planet game? Point is, usually you could count on Rare to deliver unlike a great many number of developers out there.
 
[quote name='ahmedmalik']Regardless of what people say, this is pretty big news. The Stamper Bros. gave direction to Rare as a whole, even if Microsoft had them on a tight leash. It's no different than if Miyamoto retired from Nintendo (although on nowhere near the same level). When the sale was initially made by Nintendo to Microsoft for the company, everyone said that it was a dumb move by Microsoft since the important people in the company could just quit and Microsoft would be left with a shell of a company and that's pretty much what happened. It just took them something like three or four years to get to it.

I see everyone trying to rationalize their departure as, 'well they kinda' sucked anyway', but I think Viva Pinata proves different and that rationality is just a cop-out. Donkey Kong Country was a great game and it gave the SNES a hell of a push in Nintendo's early battle against the PSX and the Saturn. Everyone knows Goldeneye. And who do you think forced Star Fox onto their Dinosaur Planet game? Point is, usually you could count on Rare to deliver unlike a great many number of developers out there.[/QUOTE]

Isn't this sort of a contradiction? Key members of the Goldeneye team left to form Free Radical, but you're mentioning Goldeneye in the same of breath of 'don't say the Stampers did nothing.' Rare was already disintegrating when Microsoft acquired them.

You can say what you will, but they've only 'delivered' quality-wise on 1 out of their last 5 games. If we get stuck looking at the past, John Romero would still be a coding God and we'd all be his giant, collective bitch.
 
Like I said earlier: I don't see how this is horrible news.

The Stampers may start their own company. Another new, solid development team? How is that bad?

What's left of Rare will still be Rare. They've already gone through changed (Nintendo losing them, Free Radical bouncing, etc.) I don't think they'll make anything below what they've made in the past and present.
 
Ever since the GC days and their purchase by Microsoft, Rare just hasn't been the same... they haven't put out a great title in ages. Viva Pinata was probably the first great title they put out since the N64 days.
 
The part I think a lot of you are missing is the fact that it takes considerable time for ANY company to hit stride after a management shakeup.... and moving from Nintendo to Microsoft is probably as big of a shakeup as I could imagine. Let's take a look at their last couple releases -

Star Fox Adventures - Nintendo heavily influences their original design to include the Starfox character.

Grabbed by the Ghoulies - Just acquired by Microsoft, probably had an elbow in their side to push a game out the door.

Conker - Again, the pressures from Microsoft force Rare into a remake just to get something out the door. Also, Rare is probably getting 360 dev kits at this time and focus shifts towards next gen.

(Keep in mind, these games aren't BAD, just not EXCELLENT)

We all know Perfect Dark and Kameo were pushed for launch. I personally enjoyed Kameo thoroughly.

Now that Rare has had time to adjust to their new environment and understand their role in a new company, Viva Pinata has been released. It is immensely fun and well conceived. Just imagine in your own life if your whole management structure was replaced completely and you were still expected to go on doing your job as if nothing happened. Don't worry about Rare... they are a quality developer and will continue the trend in the future.
 
Although this is sad news that the brothers left the company I think it may only be a temporary distraction, because Microsoft is a powerhouse in the technology industry. What I mean is Microsoft has lots of the green and I am sure they wouldn't mind spending some of it to get top notch people in rare, to make more killer games to finish off the PS3. If Viva Pinata shows any sings of Rare's comeback, I could say you got something there. Since Microsoft bought them, I think they needed some adjustment time and well I think they are ready.
 
from what I read on other message boards, the brothers really weren't involved in the developement of games anymore.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
EDIT: Also allow me to point out something: who the fuck says "peace out" anymore? Last time that was cool, Bell Biv Devoe was at the top of the charts. ;)[/QUOTE]

Well, see, I was ... er ... using it to indicate how out of touch ... uh ... the Stampers ... aw, dammit. Jerk.

Now I'm going to go vote Republican next election, just for that.
 
As someone mentioned Free Radical is pretty much the team that was responsible for Goldeneye, so go play timesplitters and be happy :D
 
[quote name='trq']Well, see, I was ... er ... using it to indicate how out of touch ... uh ... the Stampers ... aw, dammit. Jerk.

Now I'm going to go vote Republican next election, just for that.[/QUOTE]

Egads. Perhaps I'll have to learn to be nicer. ;)

captmurphy, I appreciate your contention that Rare may have been forced to develop franchises under an environment that involved time constraints as well as a major shakeup. There is a startling bit of evidence that contradicts such a claim. Just look at your avatar.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Egads. Perhaps I'll have to learn to be nicer. ;)

captmurphy, I appreciate your contention that Rare may have been forced to develop franchises under an environment that involved time constraints as well as a major shakeup. There is a startling bit of evidence that contradicts such a claim. Just look at your avatar.[/quote]

Good point. There is, however, one big difference - Bungie was an independant studio prior to the MS reign... Rare was not. Still, I see where you are coming from.

I still think that Rare is a great developer and have hit their stride with MS in Viva Pinata. The secret ingrediant is love....... dammit.
 
[quote name='javeryh']For fuck's sake can we please get another Jet Force Gemini?[/QUOTE]
that would be the perfect title to get young and old gamers into the same game
 
[quote name='Weedy649']As someone mentioned Free Radical is pretty much the team that was responsible for Goldeneye, so go play timesplitters and be happy :D[/QUOTE]

Actually, from what I recall, it's eight or nine members of a nineteen person team, including one of three lead designers, so the Goldeneye team is pretty well scattered to the winds. Heck, that's from when the first Timesplitters game hit, so who knows how many of THOSE members are even still there, years later?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
As for Kameo's underappreciation, wasn't it supposed to be a late-term N64 title? I know it was being developed for the Gamecube for certain, but part of me also thinks it goes back farther than that.[/QUOTE]

Well that's ironic, because it's one of the best looking titles on the 360.
 
What MS has to do now is do what edios did with tomb raider, meaning they might have to take rare's creation and give it to another team.
 
[quote name='62t']What MS has to do now is do what edios did with tomb raider, meaning they might have to take rare's creation and give it to another team.[/QUOTE]

If they can find a team that can do what Crystal Dynamics did to TR: Legends, I'm all for it! That game rocked.
 
[quote name='porieux']Well that's ironic, because it's one of the best looking titles on the 360.[/QUOTE]

he's thinking of Dino Planet, which became Starfox adventures for GC.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']he's thinking of Dino Planet, which became Starfox adventures for GC.[/QUOTE]
Kameo also started as a N64 game, along with Dino Planet
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Wasnt Toohuman(I think thats the title) by silicon knights a PS1 then a N64 and now a 360 game[/QUOTE]

Si senor Vortega.
 
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