The DREAM Act

C

Clak

CAGiversary!
http://dreamact.info/

Basically it’s a path to residency and eventual citizenship for illegal immigrants. There are restrictions, like how old you were when you entered the country. There is nothing in the bill that forces schools to charge in state tuition, so costs can be higher if one chooses college, though some states have passed their own legislation regarding this. There is also the option of serving 2 years in the military if one chooses.

Outside of including language that would force schools to charge in state tuition, I support this as it currently stands.
 
I like it but conservatives have been going apeshit about how it's amnesty. I think the only thing cons will support is mass deportation and that's going to just kill any hope for immigration reform.
 
Wouldn't the dream act be acknowledging the legality of illegal immigrants, or at least the federal governments informal do-nothing approach to them?

Edit: I will clarify, What would happen if an illegal immigrant going to college was found out to be illegal?
 
Then you follow what the DREAM act says. If they've been here for x amount of years, they get to stay. If they snuck in two years ago, they have to leave. It's not perfect but it's all spelled out in the proposal.
 
Must have entered the United States before the age of 16 (i.e. 15 and younger)
Must have been present in the United States for at least five (5) consecutive years prior to enactment of the bill
Must have graduated from a United States high school, or have obtained a GED, or have been accepted into an institution of higher education (i.e. college/university)
Must be between the ages of 12 and 35 at the time of application
Must have good moral character
Click to expand...

How do they determine whether or not you entered before you were 16?

The second rule is a good rule, despite the illegality of it, but is that a one time thing or as time goes by will more people qualify?

I still think starting amnesty before we secure the borders will only worsen the illegal immigration problem. If you give a path to citizenship for illegals then that will only incentivise, and motivate more people to come illegally. You can't make the illegal process easier than the legal one.
 
It's just a way to get kids legalized. Not many 14 year olds are making conscious decisions to cross the border. Is it really so bad to educate the kids of illegals?
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's just a way to get kids legalized. Not many 14 year olds are making conscious decisions to cross the border. Is it really so bad to educate the kids of illegals?[/QUOTE]

I wonder what the average results of schools with large amount of illegal students are in comparison to schools without. I wonder how much those averages are effected directly by the results of the illegal students and how much the averages are effected by things like teachers who have to spend more time working with illegal students, away from legal students (of taxpaying citizens) or trying to split their already limited funds up enough to cover the additional illegal students.

There's nothing wrong with giving some food to your neighbor... but you have to make sure your own family is fed first.
 
If they are illegal then how do you know how long they have been here? If no one knows they are here they could tell you whatever they want.

I dont mean to sound like an asshole or cold or harsh but that idea is a bunch of horse shit, its a waste of tax payer money and a waste of time and manpower.

Bottom line is our country is fucked up and we need to fix it, if someone is here illegally then they need to be sent out. Come here from another country and do it the right way then welcome my new friend, its nice to have you. But if you are here illegally (illegal being the key phrase) then your ass needs to go. No messing around, illegal equals out. Our country hemmorages way to much money dealing with illegal immigrants through healthcare, through keeping track of them and all these other things. This country needs to stop being so wishy washy and start making hard decisions because pussy footing around stuff like this is part of whats killing us. No one wants to make the tough choices and put their foot down.

Im all for immigration, hell my great grandparents came from ireland and were immigrants. But we need to fix our own problems first before we start trying to put together programs or whatever for illegal immigrants. Its the little things, the small issues like this that we waste billions on each year because its the little things that eat away at everything. They all add up to a lot in the end.

No more of that "our baby was born here so were citizens now" horseshit either. Oh you had mexican baby in america when your not a citizen here? Thats great, well take your mexican baby back to mexico with you or wherever you came from and when you can go through proper channels like all the others then your welcome to come back and be americans.

So I say if you dont have a social security number, birth certificate then your ass is out the door. No exceptions, no questions, no nothing. Just a gentle push out the door and a brouchure on how you become a legal citizen.
 
I guess, "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free" only applies to a select few.

Now we know you cons really don't give two shits about anything but some Ground Zero mosque, the rich, and some fantasy version of the Constitution. Just say it. Mass deportation and militarization of the border are the only things that will satisfy you when it comes to "immigration reform." It's OK to admit what you've all been saying anyway.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I guess, "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free" only applies to a select few.

Now we know you cons really don't give two shits about anything but some Ground Zero mosque, the rich, and some fantasy version of the Constitution. Just say it. Mass deportation and militarization of the border are the only things that will satisfy you when it comes to "immigration reform." It's OK to admit what you've all been saying anyway.[/QUOTE]

Thats funny I thought I said secure the border then create a plan to give amnesty. You have to fix the cause of the problem before you can fix the problem, unless you are a democrat/liberal who sees nothing wrong with illegal immigration for immigrants and/or for the country.
 
[quote name='tivo']This is why I've stopped discussing social issues, because people get too emotional, use snide quips, exaggerations, hyperboles, jump to conclusions, extrapolate arguments, and misdirect. I was beginning to focus on economics but it seems like everyone would rather mindlessly opine instead of using data or reason to back up their position. Its all obstinate opinions here.[/QUOTE]

tivo, you just need to add this to every thread...
 
wait I don't get it. what is wrong with giving kids who probably did not have a choice a chance of citizenship? I'm guessing if they're graduating high school or going to college, then they're actually doing something worthy in their lives. they're actually improving their own standing. shit how many illegals are even getting a chance to go for higher education?

also should these kids that were forced by their parents to come to a new country suffer because of the shitty actions of theirs parents who decided to cheat the system and come here illegally?

Also they have already gone to public school so technically tax payers have already paid for them so shouldn't we give them a chance so that they can get a job and start paying taxes like everyone else?

I don't know how this law could be bad when it's awarding kids that are actually trying to improve or that can benefit society.
 
[quote name='oni_saru_sensei']wait I don't get it. what is wrong with giving kids who probably did not have a choice a chance of citizenship? I'm guessing if they're graduating high school or going to college, then they're actually doing something worthy in their lives. they're actually improving their own standing. shit how many illegals are even getting a chance to go for higher education?

also should these kids that were forced by their parents to come to a new country suffer because of the shitty actions of theirs parents who decided to cheat the system and come here illegally?

Also they have already gone to public school so technically tax payers have already paid for them so shouldn't we give them a chance so that they can get a job and start paying taxes like everyone else?

I don't know how this law could be bad when it's awarding kids that are actually trying to improve or that can benefit society.[/QUOTE]


The law is not only for kids who were born here. You just would have to show up (illegally) before you turned 16, and have been here for 5 years. What we are questioning is how the government can confirm when they came here, the age limit goes up until 35 which is clearly not a kid. I guess they could ask them to provide some records or something but even a 25 year old is going back a decade to see when they got here.

Instead of bypassing or blatently ignoring current laws and programs by enacting additional laws and programs why not do it right and fix the current laws and programs?

Is it even constitutional to grant someone citizenship on the condition that they have a college degree? If this were applied to legal immigrants you would all be screaming racism and discrimination.
 
I think Gargus made the best point in the first paragraph of this thread.

I mean they could easily lie. What's on record to say they've been here x number of years?

I suppose maybe one could argue their school record, if you manage to get one. As for their parents no way their work's going to put out a record of how long they've been there. Also they've been paid in cash I'm sure...NOT by a check.

Best chance you'll get any info is the school and POSSIBLY the house. Who knows for some houses if the illegal(I'm NOT going to say undocumented worker, that's like saying they just forgot to get their papers in order) immigrant bought the house or someone else is holding it.

As for school I say no. I think, if their parents were illegal, school isn't good enough. School should be stripped out of the bill and the required 2 years of Military Service kept. After that they'd be a citizen and school would be allowed.

While I know, most of the time the Air Force and the Navy aren't risking their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq chances are most will end up in the Army and Marines. That'll show they truly love this country and have a loyalty to this country.

Just keeping school in the bill I have a problem with since a legal American citizen could take that spot at a college.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']
I mean they could easily lie. What's on record to say they've been here x number of years?

[/QUOTE]

Oh I see! That's the problem some of yall are having! Okay I get it. That's a better argument for opposing this I think.

Well I'm guessing the way they'll determine this is through school records. Elementary, middle, and high school. Can that be determined through there? @_@ well hopefully there's something cuz i feel bad for the kids graduating at my college this year and not being able to do anything with their degree. (There's a school newspaper here that talked about the number of undocumented students going to my college. Lots of broken dreams or lost opportunities for them. =( )

And yes I support this act if done right and able to help those kids!
 
[quote name='depascal22']I guess, "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free" only applies to a select few.
[/QUOTE]

it doesn't apply period. its words on a statue.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I guess, "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free" only applies to a select few.[/QUOTE]
It only applies when the country needs slave labor, but even then, only if you're white. ;)

Anywho, I doubt that many of you guys are aware, but Southeast Asians that were refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia are deported back all the time and are often detained for months before. Mostly males. It kinda strikes me as being very odd that people that arrived with refugee status as children aren't automatically naturalized or given special dispensation. I'm guessing any child under 12 is going to have a hard time rationalizing immigration and citizenship. It's not like they chose to get on a leaky boat, avoid pirates, and live in some tent city while stufying to be a US citizen. We're talking refugees from war torn areas of the world, not that the same shouldn't apply for young children from Central/South America. I mean for fuck's sake, a toddler has no agency in this.
 
The DREAM Act has actually been floating around Congress for almost 10 years now, and was first introduced by Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, who now opposes the measure.

(...)

Though in 2007 the bill fell only eight votes short of the 60-vote threshold to stave off a filibuster threat, many Republicans who supported the measure then have now come out against it.
Click to expand...

lol

I love this trick the Republicans have pulled off.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']it doesn't apply period. its words on a statue.[/QUOTE]

It sure as hell applied when we basically let anyone in from Europe during the turn of the 20th Century.

And Knoell, I read the part about securing the border. I just don't think any of you knows how much it's going to cost to secure a border that size.

The wall doesn't work. They just go over or under it.

How many guys do you want to put on that border and how much do you think that costs? You'd have to set up new bases in the middle of the desert. Ft Huachuca is the nearest installation and that's in Sierra Vista. The Intelligence guys might not want the added population either but then again I don't know why I'm arguing with people that have zero knowledge of military operations, border security, diplomacy, or immigration policy other than "Dey took err jobz!"
 
[quote name='gargus']If they are illegal then how do you know how long they have been here? If no one knows they are here they could tell you whatever they want.

I dont mean to sound like an asshole or cold or harsh but that idea is a bunch of horse shit, its a waste of tax payer money and a waste of time and manpower.

Bottom line is our country is fucked up and we need to fix it, if someone is here illegally then they need to be sent out. Come here from another country and do it the right way then welcome my new friend, its nice to have you. But if you are here illegally (illegal being the key phrase) then your ass needs to go. No messing around, illegal equals out. Our country hemmorages way to much money dealing with illegal immigrants through healthcare, through keeping track of them and all these other things. This country needs to stop being so wishy washy and start making hard decisions because pussy footing around stuff like this is part of whats killing us. No one wants to make the tough choices and put their foot down.

Im all for immigration, hell my great grandparents came from ireland and were immigrants. But we need to fix our own problems first before we start trying to put together programs or whatever for illegal immigrants. Its the little things, the small issues like this that we waste billions on each year because its the little things that eat away at everything. They all add up to a lot in the end.

No more of that "our baby was born here so were citizens now" horseshit either. Oh you had mexican baby in america when your not a citizen here? Thats great, well take your mexican baby back to mexico with you or wherever you came from and when you can go through proper channels like all the others then your welcome to come back and be americans.

So I say if you dont have a social security number, birth certificate then your ass is out the door. No exceptions, no questions, no nothing. Just a gentle push out the door and a brouchure on how you become a legal citizen.[/QUOTE]
:applause::applause::applause::applause: Except instead of a gentle push I'd give 'em a swift kick in the ass back over the fence. Do it legally, learn to butcher the English language like a true American BEFORE attempting to do it the legal way and I'd gladly say welcome to them.

Anything less than that and I say no fuckin' way. Why should our public education system be burdened by millions of their children and our taxpayers be further burdened by the higher taxes from having to hire thousands of ESL(English as a second language) teachers because they can't be bothered to attempt to learn this before coming here?
 
[quote name='depascal22']It sure as hell applied when we basically let anyone in from Europe during the turn of the 20th Century.

And Knoell, I read the part about securing the border. I just don't think any of you knows how much it's going to cost to secure a border that size.

The wall doesn't work. They just go over or under it.

How many guys do you want to put on that border and how much do you think that costs? You'd have to set up new bases in the middle of the desert. Ft Huachuca is the nearest installation and that's in Sierra Vista. The Intelligence guys might not want the added population either but then again I don't know why I'm arguing with people that have zero knowledge of military operations, border security, diplomacy, or immigration policy other than "Dey took err jobz!"[/QUOTE]

So the only solution to illegal immigration in your eyes is to allow the full potential of immigration into the country legally? Am I right? Unless you are ok with the current state of illegal immigration, that is the only possible solution without securing the borders. Amnesty for illegals without plugging the border will only make the illegal immigration problem worse.
 
I am conservative and am for it because ancient Greece did the same thing and it helped their economy. I think they had some sort of stipulation though like they had to learn/teach a trade or something like that.
 
First of all, this country is not fucked up because of illegal immigration.

As for securing the border, you won't have to if you heavily fine the employers that hire illegals. What are they coming over for? It sure as hell isn't religious tolerance. They're coming for jobs. Eliminate the jobs and you stem the flow of immigration. You saw this during the height of the recession when you saw more people heading to Mexico instead of coming here. Illegals follow the money. No money. No illegals. You can't tell me that millions of people would risk a desert crossing to sit 20 deep in a 2 bedroom apartment without a job of some sort.

You'd think free market types would be the first to grasp this but you'd rather pour billions into ineffectual crap that will only make you feel better that the country is "sealed" off. Your xenophobia doesn't work in the real world.
 
Also get rid of drug users funding drug wars thats is making the country unstable.
 
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[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']:applause::applause::applause::applause: Except instead of a gentle push I'd give 'em a swift kick in the ass back over the fence. Do it legally, learn to butcher the English language like a true American BEFORE attempting to do it the legal way and I'd gladly say welcome to them.

Anything less than that and I say no fuckin' way. Why should our public education system be burdened by millions of their children and our taxpayers be further burdened by the higher taxes from having to hire thousands of ESL(English as a second language) teachers because they can't be bothered to attempt to learn this before coming here?[/QUOTE]

lol

And I love how in this forum, I already mouthfucked your argument Max Hardcore style in a different thread and yet you still spout off the same bullshit in another without even one tweak to defend your position.

[quote name='gargus']
No more of that "our baby was born here so were citizens now" horseshit either. Oh you had mexican baby in america when your not a citizen here? Thats great, well take your mexican baby back to mexico with you or wherever you came from and when you can go through proper channels like all the others then your welcome to come back and be americans.

(...)

hell my great grandparents came from ireland and were immigrants.[/QUOTE]

Also ROFL

You hear that baby? Just because you were born in America doesn't make you an American. Get the fuck out of my country
(that my family immigrated to back when it was as simple as getting on a boat :whistle2:#)
 
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IATCG, it's a bigger burden to have uneducated unskilled migrant workers. Putting them through public education gives them a chance to be tax paying skilled workers.

Ah, never fucking mind. You guys will never be happy until a wall is built and you can all sit around and smugly watch lazy ass Americans sloppily build houses.
 
[quote name='depascal22']First of all, this country is not fucked up because of illegal immigration.

As for securing the border, you won't have to if you heavily fine the employers that hire illegals. What are they coming over for? It sure as hell isn't religious tolerance. They're coming for jobs. Eliminate the jobs and you stem the flow of immigration. You saw this during the height of the recession when you saw more people heading to Mexico instead of coming here. Illegals follow the money. No money. No illegals. You can't tell me that millions of people would risk a desert crossing to sit 20 deep in a 2 bedroom apartment without a job of some sort.

You'd think free market types would be the first to grasp this but you'd rather pour billions into ineffectual crap that will only make you feel better that the country is "sealed" off. Your xenophobia doesn't work in the real world.[/QUOTE]

Lol im xenophobic now? Thats a new one to add to the list, its not too specific but covers alot of bases. Why not knock off the insults, and actually talk like a grown up.

I think both illegal immigrants and the country are getting the bad side of the deal with illegal immigration, but you know, its fine with you that they are. Either way your plan is getting them out of the country right? You provide a solution that will effectively decrease the labor demand for illegals here, but I thought that the goal was to give these poor people a place to be and make something of themselves. So in short your idea is to get rid of them, unless you mean to give them amnesty. Giving them amnesty is all fine and dandy, if the illegal immigrant supply wouldn't replenish itself. Giving them amnesty would simply create a second unchecked way to become a citizen.

So which is it? Do you want to get rid of them through killing off the illegal labor demand? Or do you want to keep them while also legalizing them, which would effectively make the same point of killing off the illegal labor demand, the requirement here is to not put ourselves in the same position again.

The first one you are getting rid of the beloved people you come to defend so dearly.

The second one you are keeping them but the only stipulation is that we prevent this overflow from happening again.

Do you agree that there must be some limit to legal immigration?
 
Sweet Jesus, knoell. I feel bad for people that have work 18 hour days to feed their family regardless of the hows and whys. They're good people and should be given a chance to get in the end of the line. The problem is people like you scare them. They think they will get deported just for admitting that they're here to work. All they hear is how illegals are destroying this country.

I think the free market can set the limit to immigration. We need more doctors and nurses. Unfortunately, our horrible immigration policy hinders that effort. The limits are set by country with little regard to actual skills or education. The system encourages people to come over here illegally.
 
[quote name='depascal22']We need more doctors and nurses. Unfortunately, our horrible immigration policy hinders that effort.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand this argument. How many of the illegal aliens are doctors and nurses? If they were doctors, would they need to come over illegally?
 
[quote name='Sporadic']lol
And I love how in this forum, I already mouthfucked your argument Max Hardcore style in a different thread and yet you still spout off the same bullshit in another without even one tweak to defend your position.[/QUOTE]
And yet you find it necessary to reply again to it. So how will you 'cut down' my argument in another way that I won't give a fuck about either?;)

My views are my views. I'm just sick and tired of hearing motherfuckin' Spanish everywhere I go. If they wanna be good citizens, then fully assimilate but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime. I'm sure there has to be some non profit organizations not funded by tax dollars that would have ESL classes for them so they can learn the language.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']And yet you find it necessary to reply again to it. So how will you 'cut down' my argument in another way that I won't give a fuck about either?;)

My views are my views. I'm just sick and tired of hearing motherfuckin' Spanish everywhere I go. If they wanna be good citizens, then fully assimilate but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime. I'm sure there has to be some non profit organizations not funded by tax dollars that would have ESL classes for them so they can learn the language.[/QUOTE]

you ought to use the phrase bootstraps, it will add +3 deny reality to your post
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer'] I'm just sick and tired of hearing motherfuckin' Spanish everywhere I go. If they wanna be good citizens, then fully assimilate but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime. I'm sure there has to be some non profit organizations not funded by tax dollars that would have ESL classes for them so they can learn the language.[/QUOTE]

I actually like hearing ppl speak different languages >.< even when I think they may be shit talking bout me. o_O I get hair cuts at Asian salons and I get the feeling they may be smack talking me...well not really since I tip well XD

But no seriously, do you get as annoyed when Vietnamese people speak Vietnamese? Or when Chinese people speak Chinese or not very good English? Spanish speakers are not the only ones who aren't "fully assimilating." I know many people who haven't fully grasped the English language and I don't have a problem with them at all.

Also when people talk about illegals, why the hell do they only mention Hispanics as if they're the only ones breaking the law. What about the ones with expired VISAs? Yeah they got here legally but if they don't get their stuff straight, aren't they illegal now? So why don't people mention them also?!
 
Actually I do hate hearing languages other than English largely due to thinking they're talking smack bout me. Maybe that's my main problem with them is that I wanna know what they're talking about.

But I will say that if I were to move to another country where English is not the primary language, I WOULD learn their language there to be able to get along in their society.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Actually I do hate hearing languages other than English largely due to thinking they're talking smack bout me. [/QUOTE]

Well here's a reality check that psychologists teach you in cognitive behavior therapy, people most likely don't care who you are. they're most likely not talking about you because they can really give a rat's ass about your existence. the chances that someone is talking smack about you are low or 50/50. just remember this and maybe you won't feel like ppl are talking mess.

or better yet ignore them. why do you care what others say? or i know, learn another language and smack talk them. really you got options so you don't have to feel insecure

not gonna lie, I laughed a bit at your response XD sorry(?)
 
It's ok. I guess I'm more like an older person than a 35 yr old, as I share the same views as some people twice my age about illegal immigrants.

Now all I need is a cane to wave in the air at kids when screaming " GET OFF MY LAWN!!".:lol:
 
[quote name='wune']I don't understand this argument. How many of the illegal aliens are doctors and nurses? If they were doctors, would they need to come over illegally?[/QUOTE]

You DO realize that the medical industry here is trying to screw nurses on pay right? This is why they can't find them and hire Pnaii's(Filipino girls) instead.
Granted it may not be like that everywhere but I've heard the complaint before.
I don't disagree with you on doctors. The biggest problem with that is we basically need to subsidize medical schooling for those who have the talent, so they don't have a huge student loan on their back. It's THIS that encourages doctors to be crooks, pushing unnecessary surgery in my opinion.
I really think that if we made it affordable and encouraged more people with the talent to become doctors we'd see a nationwide rise in health. I mean you'd actually have small town doctors again for crying out loud.
I do think that as part of this remedy you will have to fix the medical schools as well, change the texts somewhat so they follow more of a natural cures slant a bit. As it stands I would not be surprised, in the least, if the big sponsor of Medical Schools are Pharmaceutical companies
 
I dunno, I think this proposal is fair enough. We have way too many dumbasses in this country that were born here and either don't contribute shit or are harmful to the country. Why not give educated people who have lived most of their lives here a chance to be successful? They'd contribute a heck of a lot more to society than a large number of pure-bred Americans.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I dunno, I think this proposal is fair enough. We have way too many dumbasses in this country that were born here and either don't contribute shit or are harmful to the country. Why not give educated people who have lived most of their lives here a chance to be successful? They'd contribute a heck of a lot more to society than a large number of pure-bred Americans.[/QUOTE]
:applause::applause::applause::applause:

yeah so the Dream Act did not move forward. Sux for the undocumented students =(

also here's an interesting opinion piece:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-dream-20100920,0,832527.story

" Sometimes they learn the truth about their immigration status only when they apply to college or try to get a driver's license."---> =( that must be quite the burden to find out.
 
Oni I would disagree on the Asian tip. At least, to me, I don't feel the same as Cheapest completely. Does it annoy me a bit when they're speaking another? Sure, a bit at least. However, I know if I need to ask them a question in English they'll KNOW it and be able to SPEAK it accordingly to respond to me. Well, except in the rare circumstance I'm in a big tourist city like Las Vegas, L.A. or New York City.
On the other hand if someone is speaking Spanish I don't know that to be the case. It could be just as likely they wouldn't understand.
The big issue with this...why bother learning English when everything is in Spanish to accommodate you? The credit union I have an account at might even have Spanish there on the phone system(I'm not positive). There are satellite systems that have SPANISH audio for English cable channels and that's part of their Latino package.
I also feel sorry for the kids as much as anyone Oni. That being said, the same attitude is the reason why we have illegals working here. "Oh they're sending that money home to feed their family.". The only reason they're sending that money home is because their country is completely broken. Yes it's run by an oligarchy that is hoarding SOOOO much of the countries wealth it can't function properly. This is evidenced by the fact that 50% of Mexico's income is money coming from the U.S. down into Mexico.

The only way that country will be fixed is if we eliminate that gaping wound by fining those employers out of hiring illegals. After that most will go home and fix that country by rioting. Hopefully after that bloodbath ends and likely after a few parents and children of said Oligarchical families end up killed in those riots the country will start mending itself.

We're looking at going down the same path by the way. I mean seeing people die soon enough here if things don't get fixed. Either it will be many more people starving to death, day after day, or in the near future. The latter scenario could see things getting better. I'm talking Union striking on shift, just suddenly striking like the longshoreman of yore did. Also going to Washington in a gigantic wave of people, marching, voting out your reps for third parties who don't support outsourcing tax breaks and instead tax for overseas labor being used.
If that doesn't work you do the worst, last case scenario and block the ports as well(definitely see people dying here) as boycott all goods made overseas. Yes, you can still buy everything you actually still NEED here. I suppose the only argument would be oil coming from Canada.
 
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[quote name='depascal22']It sure as hell applied when we basically let anyone in from Europe during the turn of the 20th Century.

[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is arguing that we shouldn't be letting people in, or even filtering them based on where they come from or how poor they are.

The poem you love to quote is on the statue of liberty on Ellis Island, which was an immigration processing center for immigrants. If immigrants still went through a processing center when they came through our borders I don't think most people would have a problem. The problem is that they don't.

We were smart enough 150 years ago to try and stop, account for, and track anyone coming into the country. Why is that considered such a bad idea now?
 
I really don't have a problem with the other language option. I know some people who may know enough English to get by but would rather use their native language simply because they feel more comfortable(Not just Spanish speakers!!!). It's understandable and I get it. But whatever, some ppl don't mind, others do.

[quote name='Sarang01']
I also feel sorry for the kids as much as anyone Oni. That being said, the same attitude is the reason why we have illegals working here. "Oh they're sending that money home to feed their family.". The only reason they're sending that money home is because their country is completely broken. Yes it's run by an oligarchy that is hoarding SOOOO much of the countries wealth it can't function properly. This is evidenced by the fact that 50% of Mexico's income is money coming from the U.S. down into Mexico.
[/QUOTE]

I hope you don't mean the kids are sending money to Mexico. The kids here that are in college are doing it for their own benefit or for their immediate family (most likely their parents still live here since they are the ones who brought their kids here!). If these kids are able to work and go to college, then I'm sure they're keeping every bit of cash they can get. As for the parents, then they're the ones sending money to their families back home.

Also a lot of these kids have been in the US for many years. They're pretty much Americans with the small detail that they weren't born here and were forced (or brought) here illegally because it was a decision their parents made. This act should have focused on helping those kids.

Apparently there are about 8,000 undocumented students in my city. All these kids will face the sad fact that once they graduate, they will lose many good opportunities. While yes it can be argued that any college grad will have a hard time finding a job with this economy. But for these kids it's basically an automatic no chance of starting their career. So not only did they just waste money and time for many years, they lose hope and it all boils down to a decision made by their parents that these kids had no say in.

As for what Mexicans can do to improve, well I have a lot to say about that so not even gonna get started ^_^'

also as a reminder, Mexico's not the only country that needs fixing!! All illegals are not just from Mexico!!!
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Oni I would disagree on the Asian tip. At least, to me, I don't feel the same as Cheapest completely. Does it annoy me a bit when they're speaking another? Sure, a bit at least. However, I know if I need to ask them a question in English they'll KNOW it and be able to SPEAK it accordingly to respond to me. Well, except in the rare circumstance I'm in a big tourist city like Las Vegas, L.A. or New York City.
On the other hand if someone is speaking Spanish I don't know that to be the case. It could be just as likely they wouldn't understand.
The big issue with this...why bother learning English when everything is in Spanish to accommodate you? The credit union I have an account at might even have Spanish there on the phone system(I'm not positive). There are satellite systems that have SPANISH audio for English cable channels and that's part of their Latino package.
I also feel sorry for the kids as much as anyone Oni. That being said, the same attitude is the reason why we have illegals working here. "Oh they're sending that money home to feed their family.". The only reason they're sending that money home is because their country is completely broken. Yes it's run by an oligarchy that is hoarding SOOOO much of the countries wealth it can't function properly. This is evidenced by the fact that 50% of Mexico's income is money coming from the U.S. down into Mexico.

The only way that country will be fixed is if we eliminate that gaping wound by fining those employers out of hiring illegals. After that most will go home and fix that country by rioting. Hopefully after that bloodbath ends and likely after a few parents and children of said Oligarchical families end up killed in those riots the country will start mending itself.

We're looking at going down the same path by the way. I mean seeing people die soon enough here if things don't get fixed. Either it will be many more people starving to death, day after day, or in the near future. The latter scenario could see things getting better. I'm talking Union striking on shift, just suddenly striking like the longshoreman of yore did. Also going to Washington in a gigantic wave of people, marching, voting out your reps for third parties who don't support outsourcing tax breaks and instead tax for overseas labor being used.
If that doesn't work you do the worst, last case scenario and block the ports as well(definitely see people dying here) as boycott all goods made overseas. Yes, you can still buy everything you actually still NEED here. I suppose the only argument would be oil coming from Canada.[/QUOTE]
Other people speaking a foreign language SHOULD bother you guys. Wanna know why? Because we ARE talking shit about you.:shock:

When I'm at a Chinese restaurant and I say something to the waiter and he laughs? I'm talking about that white devil eating egg rolls with pork fried rice and spare ribs at the corner table. When I go to a Brazilian restaurant, I talk about that fat white family sitting behind me closing down the joint. When I get a haircut at an Asian salon, I talk to the hair stylist about how dumb and fat white people are...and bald. When I go to a Japanese restaurant, I talk to the waiters about all the gaijin poseurs that eat sushi with cream cheese in it.

And btw, you know those oligarchical families you're talking about? They're propped up on money from the US, either directly or by proxy both through private and government means. The US has a long history of "intervention" in Central and South America.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']We were smart enough 150 years ago to try and stop, account for, and track anyone coming into the country. Why is that considered such a bad idea now?[/QUOTE]

OPEN BORDERS AHHHHHHHHHHHH :whee:
 
Sensible. moderate. of course it failed.

Let's go back to bleating about how we need to find and deport 20+ million people in the US - and a few breaths later, make sure we talk about how we're sick of government spending and government growth - just for shits and giggles.
 
People are overlooking the most important part of this.

The DREAM Act has actually been floating around Congress for almost 10 years now, and was first introduced by Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, who now opposes the measure.

(...)

Though in 2007 the bill fell only eight votes short of the 60-vote threshold to stave off a filibuster threat, many Republicans who supported the measure then have now come out against it.
Click to expand...

lol

I love this trick the Republicans have pulled off.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Sensible. moderate. of course it failed.

Let's go back to bleating about how we need to find and deport 20+ million people in the US - and a few breaths later, make sure we talk about how we're sick of government spending and government growth - just for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE]

Or we could plug the border so we don't have the same thing happen again when we give them amnesty. But nope, you guys would rather all these people continue to be undocumented cheap labor, that don't really have the full rights of Americans, that are trafficked for prostitution, kidnapped, etc just because it may cost a pretty penny to stop it all. Oh and the reason this government spending is A-OK is because it is something the government is supposed to actually be doing.
 
[quote name='wune']I don't understand this argument. How many of the illegal aliens are doctors and nurses? If they were doctors, would they need to come over illegally?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, our country doesn't recognize most of the medical and nursing licenses from other countries. Instead of letting people test, they make them go through school all over again. So yes, you get doctors and nurses from other countries working as housekeepers because this country decided they didn't have the proper licensure. On the other hand, we have practicing American doctors with degrees from Mexico.....

As for setting a limit to immigration, I say blow it up. It doesn't work. The red tape involved is ridiculous. I say let em all come in but make them ineligible for aid until they've worked, gone to school, paid taxes for x amount of years. Those who can't find work will eventually move on to the next country that has available jobs.

I don't want them for slave labor. I just realize that there will always be people working for sub standard wages as long as you have an indifferent government and greedy business. That doesn't mean I love or hate them. I just realize they're human beings trying to work.
 
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