Tillman Story
- Thread starter vherub
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[quote name='gargus']Atleast put up a link to it on imdb, or say something about the movie instead of just saying a title and its well done. Id never heard of it but due to annoyance for lazy posters I wont bother going to look it up.[/QUOTE]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568334/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HTOKhzFs&hd=1&feature=search
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568334/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HTOKhzFs&hd=1&feature=search
fatherofcaitlyn
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Why should I care about Pat Tillman's death?
Somebody famous died in a friendly fire incident and the government tried to cover it up.
Does anybody consider Pat Tillman as a role model?
Somebody famous died in a friendly fire incident and the government tried to cover it up.
Does anybody consider Pat Tillman as a role model?
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Why should I care about Pat Tillman's death?
Somebody famous died in a friendly fire incident and the government tried to cover it up.[/QUOTE]
A guy turned down a 3.2 million dollar football contract to do what he thought was right, serve his country. In return, he was most likely fragged by his own unit (can three gunshots to the head from 9 meters away be considered accidental?) and the military covered it up, lied to his family and turned him into a propaganda hero.
It's a interesting story.
Kind of like the documentary on Lee Atwater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY3XnLv4YpA&feature=search
Somebody famous died in a friendly fire incident and the government tried to cover it up.[/QUOTE]
A guy turned down a 3.2 million dollar football contract to do what he thought was right, serve his country. In return, he was most likely fragged by his own unit (can three gunshots to the head from 9 meters away be considered accidental?) and the military covered it up, lied to his family and turned him into a propaganda hero.
It's a interesting story.
Kind of like the documentary on Lee Atwater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY3XnLv4YpA&feature=search
Will have to check it out.
I've also been meaning to read Jon Krakauer's (author of Into the Wild) novel about the Tillman story--Where Men Win Glory.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282362547&sr=8-1
Never got around to watching the doc, but I did finally read Where Men Win Glory via library e-book.
It's a very good read, as expected from Krakauer. The early part of the book covered a lot of recent Afghan history outlining the turmoil preceding the Soviet invasion up through the rise of the Taliban.
As for Tilman's story, he was a pretty interesting due. Definitely an alpha male in the sense of seeking physical challenges, being a loud mouth etc. But at the same time he was well read, pretty liberal, an atheist etc. It was interesting to read his journal entries etc. about signing up after 9/11 despite not supporting Bush, the bitching about the Iraq war (where he was deployed first) being not what he signed up for and how it was just about oil and imperialism.
The book also paralleled a bit to the propaganda around the Jessica Lynch story--how it initially came out that she was fighting off her captors and was shot in both legs, stabbed and raped. And then it came out that she only had injuries from the hummer crash, never fired around and was never raped--and in fact was treated well in the hospital and they even tried to turn her over at a US checkpoint, but the ambulance was fired upon so they had to turn around. Tillman was involved in the rescue operation (minor role doing perimeter security or something) and commented in his journal before hand that it was all a PR stunt. So pretty sad and ironic how the military pulled the same PR deception bullshit with his death, giving him a posthumous silver star and letting people (including his family) believe he'd been killed by the Taliban for quite a while before the truth about the friendly fire came out.
The part that probably pissed me off the most in reading it, was the one jackoff Army leader who suggested that his family was just being a pain in the ass about the investigations after the truth started to come out because they were atheists and thus couldn't deal with him "dying for nothing" since they didn't believe in an afterlife.
Anyway, not really anything new in the book if you followed the news on the story a lot I suppose. I never paid that much attention to it at the time, so a lot of it was new to me. And it's very well-written like Krakauer's past books and he does a good job integrating excerpts from Tillman's journal into the book and so on. So I recommend it to anyone interested in the story.
I've also been meaning to read Jon Krakauer's (author of Into the Wild) novel about the Tillman story--Where Men Win Glory.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282362547&sr=8-1
Never got around to watching the doc, but I did finally read Where Men Win Glory via library e-book.
It's a very good read, as expected from Krakauer. The early part of the book covered a lot of recent Afghan history outlining the turmoil preceding the Soviet invasion up through the rise of the Taliban.
As for Tilman's story, he was a pretty interesting due. Definitely an alpha male in the sense of seeking physical challenges, being a loud mouth etc. But at the same time he was well read, pretty liberal, an atheist etc. It was interesting to read his journal entries etc. about signing up after 9/11 despite not supporting Bush, the bitching about the Iraq war (where he was deployed first) being not what he signed up for and how it was just about oil and imperialism.
The book also paralleled a bit to the propaganda around the Jessica Lynch story--how it initially came out that she was fighting off her captors and was shot in both legs, stabbed and raped. And then it came out that she only had injuries from the hummer crash, never fired around and was never raped--and in fact was treated well in the hospital and they even tried to turn her over at a US checkpoint, but the ambulance was fired upon so they had to turn around. Tillman was involved in the rescue operation (minor role doing perimeter security or something) and commented in his journal before hand that it was all a PR stunt. So pretty sad and ironic how the military pulled the same PR deception bullshit with his death, giving him a posthumous silver star and letting people (including his family) believe he'd been killed by the Taliban for quite a while before the truth about the friendly fire came out.
The part that probably pissed me off the most in reading it, was the one jackoff Army leader who suggested that his family was just being a pain in the ass about the investigations after the truth started to come out because they were atheists and thus couldn't deal with him "dying for nothing" since they didn't believe in an afterlife.
Anyway, not really anything new in the book if you followed the news on the story a lot I suppose. I never paid that much attention to it at the time, so a lot of it was new to me. And it's very well-written like Krakauer's past books and he does a good job integrating excerpts from Tillman's journal into the book and so on. So I recommend it to anyone interested in the story.
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ElwoodCuse
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Sporadic']A guy turned down a 3.2 million dollar football contract to do what he thought was right, serve his country. In return, he was most likely fragged by his own unit (can three gunshots to the head from 9 meters away be considered accidental?) and the military covered it up, lied to his family and turned him into a propaganda hero.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the crazy thing. I knew about the "heroic death oops we meant friendly fire" thing but I had no idea they might have been covering up a murder. For a guy who gave up big bucks to join the Army, Tillman was actually quite the opposite of the pro-war jingoistic YAY AMERICA guy the media tried to make him out to be.
Yeah, that's the crazy thing. I knew about the "heroic death oops we meant friendly fire" thing but I had no idea they might have been covering up a murder. For a guy who gave up big bucks to join the Army, Tillman was actually quite the opposite of the pro-war jingoistic YAY AMERICA guy the media tried to make him out to be.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Sporadic']In return, he was most likely fragged by his own unit (can three gunshots to the head from 9 meters away be considered accidental?) ...[/QUOTE]
Old news is old.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35717-2004Dec4.html
Assuming there is any truth to it, an armed individual in hostile territory and rocky terrain under low light conditions was shot. At best, Tillman might have been a victim of manslaughter. At worst, an aggressive DA might be able to push homicide.
The people who killed Tillman didn't know they were killing Tillman. So, it wasn't murder.
Were they incompetent? Yes.
Did military leadership manipulate the incident to their goals? Yes.
Is there something remarkable about this? Not unless you think sports stars are more important than regular people.
It is generally understood that when you put enough people under enough stress and add weapons to the mix, you're going to have accidents.
Old news is old.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35717-2004Dec4.html
Assuming there is any truth to it, an armed individual in hostile territory and rocky terrain under low light conditions was shot. At best, Tillman might have been a victim of manslaughter. At worst, an aggressive DA might be able to push homicide.
The people who killed Tillman didn't know they were killing Tillman. So, it wasn't murder.
Were they incompetent? Yes.
Did military leadership manipulate the incident to their goals? Yes.
Is there something remarkable about this? Not unless you think sports stars are more important than regular people.
It is generally understood that when you put enough people under enough stress and add weapons to the mix, you're going to have accidents.
rumblebear
CAGiversary!
He's better off with the fake heroic death than the truth of him being an egotistical douche bag who got killed by friendly fire.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Will have to check it out.
I've also been meaning to read Jon Krakauer's (author of Into the Wild) novel about the Tillman story--Where Men Win Glory.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282362547&sr=8-1[/quote]
Never got around to watching the doc, but I did finally read Where Men Win Glory via library e-book.
It's a very good read, as expected from Krakauer. The early part of the book covered a lot of recent Afghan history outlining the turmoil preceding the Soviet invasion up through the rise of the Taliban.
As for Tilman's story, he was a pretty interesting due. Definitely an alpha male in the sense of seeking physical challenges, being a loud mouth etc. But at the same time he was well read, pretty liberal, an atheist etc. It was interesting to read his journal entries etc. about signing up after 9/11 despite not supporting Bush, the bitching about the Iraq war (where he was deployed first) being not what he signed up for and how it was just about oil and imperialism.
The book also paralleled a bit to the propaganda around the Jessica Lynch story--how it initially came out that she was fighting off her captors and was shot in both legs, stabbed and raped. And then it came out that she only had injuries from the hummer crash, never fired around and was never raped--and in fact was treated well in the hospital and they even tried to turn her over at a US checkpoint, but the ambulance was fired upon so they had to turn around. Tillman was involved in the rescue operation (minor role doing perimeter security or something) and commented in his journal before hand that it was all a PR stunt. So pretty sad and ironic how the military pulled the same PR deception bullshit with his death, giving him a posthumous silver star and letting people (including his family) believe he'd been killed by the Taliban for quite a while before the truth about the friendly fire came out.
The part that probably pissed me off the most in reading it, was the one jackoff Army leader who suggested that his family was just being a pain in the ass about the investigations after the truth started to come out because they were atheists and thus couldn't deal with him "dying for nothing" since they didn't believe in an afterlife.
Anyway, not really anything new in the book if you followed the news on the story a lot I suppose. I never paid that much attention to it at the time, so a lot of it was new to me. And it's very well-written like Krakauer's past books and he does a good job integrating excerpts from Tillman's journal into the book and so on. So I recommend it to anyone interested in the story.
I've also been meaning to read Jon Krakauer's (author of Into the Wild) novel about the Tillman story--Where Men Win Glory.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282362547&sr=8-1[/quote]
Never got around to watching the doc, but I did finally read Where Men Win Glory via library e-book.
It's a very good read, as expected from Krakauer. The early part of the book covered a lot of recent Afghan history outlining the turmoil preceding the Soviet invasion up through the rise of the Taliban.
As for Tilman's story, he was a pretty interesting due. Definitely an alpha male in the sense of seeking physical challenges, being a loud mouth etc. But at the same time he was well read, pretty liberal, an atheist etc. It was interesting to read his journal entries etc. about signing up after 9/11 despite not supporting Bush, the bitching about the Iraq war (where he was deployed first) being not what he signed up for and how it was just about oil and imperialism.
The book also paralleled a bit to the propaganda around the Jessica Lynch story--how it initially came out that she was fighting off her captors and was shot in both legs, stabbed and raped. And then it came out that she only had injuries from the hummer crash, never fired around and was never raped--and in fact was treated well in the hospital and they even tried to turn her over at a US checkpoint, but the ambulance was fired upon so they had to turn around. Tillman was involved in the rescue operation (minor role doing perimeter security or something) and commented in his journal before hand that it was all a PR stunt. So pretty sad and ironic how the military pulled the same PR deception bullshit with his death, giving him a posthumous silver star and letting people (including his family) believe he'd been killed by the Taliban for quite a while before the truth about the friendly fire came out.
The part that probably pissed me off the most in reading it, was the one jackoff Army leader who suggested that his family was just being a pain in the ass about the investigations after the truth started to come out because they were atheists and thus couldn't deal with him "dying for nothing" since they didn't believe in an afterlife.
Anyway, not really anything new in the book if you followed the news on the story a lot I suppose. I never paid that much attention to it at the time, so a lot of it was new to me. And it's very well-written like Krakauer's past books and he does a good job integrating excerpts from Tillman's journal into the book and so on. So I recommend it to anyone interested in the story.
forgot about this thread.
Anyway, the doc is worth seeing. The working title was "I'm
ing Pat Tillman" for a reason, and it definitely does not celebrate him as a hero nor honor giving up millions of nfl dollars to join the military. What it really does is tell a story that embarrasses us all. Especially how it all goes down for his family.
The documentary also complements Where Men Win Glory, and it's worth taking both in as they offer a fuller picture.
Anyway, the doc is worth seeing. The working title was "I'm
ing Pat Tillman" for a reason, and it definitely does not celebrate him as a hero nor honor giving up millions of nfl dollars to join the military. What it really does is tell a story that embarrasses us all. Especially how it all goes down for his family.The documentary also complements Where Men Win Glory, and it's worth taking both in as they offer a fuller picture.
bread's done