VERY shady ebay post

basketkase543

basketkase543

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I was looking for a Knights of the old Republic for PC and i ran into this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3081437311&category=62053

There is no way this game could LEGALLY be selling for $13.99. It says it is new but that it ships without box and manual for $8 in order to save shipping costs. That's a lot of money for shipping if it supposedly comes from Texas. Even more confusing is his overwhelmingly positive feedback. Something is up here.
 
do a search for "skies of arcadia dreamcast" there is a guy that sold multiple backups. And in his feedback there are people that felt ripped off, but didnt want a negative feedback.
 
looks like the seller is selling Asian version of the game means the game is only for Asian market. Asian version is cheaper. It said thai, mean it may be shipped from thailand.
 
That Diablo auction is for an ingame item on Blizzard's servers. Kind of like buying a house in Asheron's Call or a rare item in Everquest. Knowing Blizzard, it's probably against their rules to buy/sell game items for real cash.
 
complaining to eBay is almost useless, even if thousands of members complain about the same bootlegging issue eBay still can't do much about it considering there is so many being posted and so little athority and employees. bootleg games are not ebay's only issue, there is also fake coins, purses, comics, sports memo. and a whole list of others we dont know much about. ebay does ban the user's credit card and address information, but all the seller has to do is use a credit card and address of his/her friend or accomplist. because there is so little "law enforcement" on internet goods it is very hard to actually charge someone with a crime. in this instance of selling bootleg games will go under mail fraud and not countifeiting. if the seller is an actual company, then procecution is easier. you can file an complaint with BBB, or many other non-profit online attorney firms. (google it, ebay also have many on hand, search help on ebay)

about the feedbacks, sellers and buyers mostly will only take notice of consecutive negatives, and will dismiss bad feelings if you contact them promply, before and after the auction's end. its no big deal, I've seen sellers with 40% positive still selling like crazy, and i've seen buyers with 20% positive winning items. if you are a seller and receives negative feedback you can clear it with a fee of $20 a month, if you sign up with Squaretrade.com. what's even more dishonest is being a 8 year ebay vet. seller, I've encountered offers to buy feedbacks straight from eBay. But keep in mind eBay.com is a business, and not a SERVICE. unfairness and politics is not odd in this case.
 
[quote name='notoriousxbox']Here's another one on Ebay. I came across it after I purchased the 15 DC. Wanted to see if the games came in origial packaging with instructions so emailed the seller. Told me the games were burned copies and he guranteed them to work in any DC.
Amazing whats goin on nowadays.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3591934758&category=31583[/quote]

According to the auction page, "You are bidding on 10 Brand New Dreamcast game discs." I guess the seller does not understand the meaning of "Brand New" or "intellectual property", or "theft", or "software piracy", or well, you get the idea.

Regarding selling in-game items, it has been going on for a while with many different games, but it has always seemed a little strange to me. I am sure some people make some good money doing this, possibly enough to make gaming their full time job, even, but as a cheapass, I wouldn't be able to justify spending real money on imaginary items. Plus it is essentially cheating, which kind of defeats the purpose of role playing.
 
I wouldn't call buying in-game items cheating necessarily, even though it gives an unfair advantage to those with more RL cash. It IS a bad investment, as today's treasure could be tomorrow's garbage. I've played Asheron's Call, and I remember a couple of years ago when accounts with a single level 100 character would go for close to $1000. Today you'd be lucky to get $50 for the same thing.
 
Well, technically, when you buy a PC or video game, you're spending real money on an 'imaginary' item. I'm not actually buying a final fantasy, or the theft of an auto.
I don't necessarily have a problem with buying/selling the 'virtual' assets. If it's against the gamemaker's/online enviroment's rules, that's another issue.
I personally couldn't/wouldn't spend a lot of money on that stuff, because I do agree, getting there and finding it on your own is half the fun. But I did drop some bucks on Magic:Online cards when I was into that...I wouldn't buy *any* of that stuff as an 'investment', in fact, I would say less than 1% of anything mentioned on this board is an 'investment', barring the rare and unusual occurences of things like Rez or Snatcher. Anything like that, be it 'virtual' like on EQ or 'solid' like a PS2 game, the question has to be, Is this item worth this much to me right now? 99% odds you can find it for cheaper, later. [I remember buying a Dreamcast, two controllers, and four games, for over two hundred bucks. Now I could get the same for about twenty.]
But I do agree: I wish people would stop selling boots, and I wish people would quit BUYING them. And report them when you find them, it may not do any good, but it might. I'm a cheapass, but I'm an honest cheapass--finding an anime dvd [which is my other big search on ebay] for 10 bucks that retails for 30 is a good deal, and I'll buy it, but I won't buy the 'Perfect Collection' that is 1/10th the legit item's cost if it's a boot.
 
agreed with boots (and the anime boots especially) part of the problem is until you get some experience under you, you can get ripped of from places like ebay, or amazon

could ebay implement a system to cut down on boots sure, they could easily say if seller x offers an item that is an illegal knockoff/bootleg/etc they are warned the 1st time, the item must be removed, etc
the second time is an automatic banning and a fine dependent on the relative price of the good
i think at the moment they do not consider it to be a huge handicap to their business that many illegal sales are occuring, and there are many people, buyers and sellers who would not want ebay to become more draconian about every sale that takes place.

if ebay started to collect fines from sellers, they would be more likely to take an interest rather than blowing the issue off with a standard response of we couldnt possibly keep trackign of all the many, many items that come through
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Well, technically, when you buy a PC or video game, you're spending real money on an 'imaginary' item.[/quote]

I figured someone might mention that. I realize this may seem like a cop-out, but one is buying an imaginary world, not an imaginary item. Plus, unless one just downloads the game, one does get physical assets as well, but I do see your point.
 
[quote name='Indonesia']looks like the seller is selling Asian version of the game means the game is only for Asian market. Asian version is cheaper. It said thai, mean it may be shipped from thailand.[/quote]


Yes the asian version is cheaper BECAUSE it is a BOOTLEG, FAKE, BURNED,etc....

Where do you think the vast majority of piracy comes from?

Any auction I look at that has the seller from an asian country or states that the item is brand new but item will ship without the box to save on shipping, I hit the back button. Nothing but a waste of time.
If I wanted bootlegs I would make them myself, but I much prefer the originals.


Look on ebay under DVDs for X-files Season 1 - 8. Well over 50% of the listings are bootlegs from an asian country.
 
[quote name='rimsforsale']complaining to eBay is almost useless, even if thousands of members complain about the same bootlegging issue eBay still can't do much about it considering there is so many being posted and so little athority and employees. bootleg games are not ebay's only issue, there is also fake coins, purses, comics, sports memo. and a whole list of others we dont know much about. ebay does ban the user's credit card and address information, but all the seller has to do is use a credit card and address of his/her friend or accomplist. because there is so little "law enforcement" on internet goods it is very hard to actually charge someone with a crime. in this instance of selling bootleg games will go under mail fraud and not countifeiting. if the seller is an actual company, then procecution is easier. you can file an complaint with BBB, or many other non-profit online attorney firms. (google it, ebay also have many on hand, search help on ebay)

Contact the BSA. They deal with software piracy

about the feedbacks, sellers and buyers mostly will only take notice of consecutive negatives, and will dismiss bad feelings if you contact them promply, before and after the auction's end. its no big deal, I've seen sellers with 40% positive still selling like crazy, and i've seen buyers with 20% positive winning items. if you are a seller and receives negative feedback you can clear it with a fee of $20 a month, if you sign up with Squaretrade.com. what's even more dishonest is being a 8 year ebay vet. seller, I've encountered offers to buy feedbacks straight from eBay. But keep in mind eBay.com is a business, and not a SERVICE. unfairness and politics is not odd in this case.[/quote]
 
[quote name='guessed'][quote name='dtcarson']Well, technically, when you buy a PC or video game, you're spending real money on an 'imaginary' item.[/quote]

I figured someone might mention that. I realize this may seem like a cop-out, but one is buying an imaginary world, not an imaginary item. Plus, unless one just downloads the game, one does get physical assets as well, but I do see your point.[/quote]

And I see yours :)
You're right, with a game/dvd/whatever, you are actually getting something tangible. But intangibility doesn't necessary mean it's not a marketable good. A good widespread example of this is, say, Internet access. Unless you're at a school, you probably pay between 5 and 60 bucks/month for net access, while getting nothing 'tangible.' And that can't even be resold, should you tire of it, like the EQ/Diablo items. But that is obviously a good that is marketable to many many people.

re: anime dvd/boot. Mostly the Cowboy Bebop, but I've seen 'Perfect Collection' crop up other places--Cardcaptor Sakura [yes, I watch CCS] and Excel Saga for a couple. I've even emailed a few sellers who had questionable listings and said, 'Is this the legit US R1 version?' No response. Thus, no sale [from me]. But there are so many people who either don't care ['I got all of Cowboy Bebop for 30 bucks!' yeah, and you're why anime on dvd is still 20-30 bucks a disk] or unfortunately don't know the differences or the impact thereof [and this of course goes for pirates software as well.]

Unfortunately, though Ebay does have those policies in place, and allegedly participate in VERO or whatever, you're right, they still make money off boots, and they have an 'innocent till proven guilty' assumption, which in general is good, but it looks like they don't act, they react to complaints, if any. I don't necessarily expect them to proactively monitor every action, but I would like them to shut down the auctions that get reported, and ban the user, if they can.

Off-topic note: this post made me a 'Regular' : ) Ah, the modern comings of age...
 
Well, Internet access is a service and, while one could argue that the seller of in-game items is providing a service by giving a buyer easier access to said imaginary items, I stand by my description of them as imaginary goods.

I am not passing a value judgement here. Honestly, even if it is against the games' EULAs, I don't really see the harm. I am just too much of a cheap-ass to consider buying the items (and I don't play enough of that type of game to make a living selling them, lol).

A friend of mine made thousands of dollars back in college by buying, selling, and trading Magic: The Gathering (TM) cards (he played quite a bit, as well), which is almost the same thing as this, except that in Magic The Gathering (TM), one is expected to spend real money on cards, whereas spending non-universe money on game-universe items is, as I stated, against the principles of role-playing.

As has already been stated, dealing in these types of items can be dangerous, as the bottom could fall out of the market at any time (of course, the same could be said of the stock market, or currency), but as long as the buyer knows what he or she is getting into (a burden which, in this case, would fall on the buyer), I don't see any problem with it.

Edit: Congrats on becoming a 'Regular'.
 
The problem with virtual property in online games is that you have zero claim to what you are selling. All the code, copyright, server space, bandwidth, etc is owned by the company producing the game. Most, if not all, of the online games have EULAs that say as much. That's where you can get into sticky situations. Where else can you sell something you don't own?

As for the value of items of this nature, it's much more perilous to buy an online game account than even the worst actual video game. Who comes out with the worst deal...the guy who spends $1000 dollars on an Asheron's Call account or the guy who spends $10 on Haven for the PS2? You might say the guy who bought Haven, but 10 years from now, the Haven guy will still have a crappy game/fancy coaster, where the AC guy might have zilch if the game is closed down.

I'm sure this is all understood, but hey, I'm bored at work.
 
[quote name='Theenternal'](perfect collection?) were you looking at cowboy bebop? Amazon refers to boot copies too :([/quote]

I personally refuse to buy any used anime DVDs because the amount of piracy is ridiculous... you're lucky if you do get a legit one. If you go to Amazon, only order directly through the site... if you get something used through the marketplace you will 99.9% likely get screwed.

Plus sites like that will always have items under a particular listing, then you have the seller explain in the description that what he's selling ISN'T the item listed, but it's actually XXXXXX and then he'll go on for half a page explaining that it's DEFINITELY legit and you shouldn't worry!!!!

ugh. If you ask me, your best bet is to just look through obscure RETAIL places that most people wouldn't think to look... for example, from the Barnes & Noble website, I ordered the FLCL volume 3 dvd that comes with the collectors box. It was straight from retail and totally legit... that was only $30; meanwhile, the thing was going for $80+ on ebay, and you have no idea what you're getting there.
 
People are referring to these anime "bootlegs" as if they are on CDR's bought straight from the store, with some sloppy Sharpe marker on them. I have a bunch of Perfect Collections, and they are of a higher quality than the "official" US releases. Very elaborate box sets with dust sleeves, cover art, tons of included stuff. They're actually very beautiful, and regardless of price, I'd MUCH rather have the Perfect Collections than the slapped together US releases.

Now on the issue of price: I refuse to pay $30 for a 3 episode DVD. The companies releasing anime today should absolutely be ashamed of themselves, milking something so bad. If I want to start collecting a series like Inuyasha or Ruroni Kenshin (over 100 episodes apiece, Ruroni is like 300), I'd have to spend something like $1000!

While I am against piracy, I certainly do not approve of releasing DVD's that charge $10 an episode. Sometimes, you have to take the lesser of two evils, and especially with the very high quality of the Perfect collections, my choice was obvious.

To each his own though :?
 
Anime on DVD, while still possibly rather expensive, like you say, is a whole lot cheaper [and more accessible] than it ever was on VHS [legitimate, that is, not fansubs or boots.]
That said, it does hurt to spend 8-10 bucks an episode for a series I'll probably watch once. I bought the first 2 Cowboy Bebops, then said You know, I'm probably not going to rewatch this, and rented the rest from Netflix. They don't have many Cardcaptor Sakura disks, though. The CCS disks I've got, I got cheap [like, less than ten bucks each.]
I was impressed by, um, some company, that released Haunted Juntion and Eat-Man 98. I liked HJ better than EM, but those were 12 episode series, 2 disks, in one set, for 30-40 bucks. That was reasonable [esp. when I got one on Ebay for about 12.00.]
Are those Perfect Collections that you have, are they 'legal' and 'legimitate'? Or are they aimed at other Regions, and technically shouldn't be sold here? Or are they merely professional bootlegs? I'll admit, I've never seen/bought one, I've avoided them on general principles, and my assumptions as to what they were. Which, admitted, could be wrong. If they're legitimate, then I might have to rethink my avoidance of PC's.
But to 'approve' of releasing DVD's that are 10$/ep, and purchase PC's which may or may not be bootlegs, that's not a solution. I don't approve of a Hummer costing 75k, but I don't go steal one [and yes, there's a slight difference between stealing a car and pirating dvd's.] I just don't buy one. If 30 bucks is too much for a dvd, I'll either not buy it, save my money, rent it, or try to find a deal. That doesn't mean we should support the bootleg industry [again, this is based on a focus of 'bootlegs', which the PC's you mention may not be.]

If selling my Diablo II Sword of Slaying +15 violates the EULA, then technically, yes that's wrong. Absent a EULA prohibiting that, however, I don't see a problem with selling these 'virtual' goods, although like guessed says, I get enjoyment out of *finding* items like that, not *buying* them, and while buying them may not be 'cheating,' it can definitely be cheap, in a bad way, and yes, antithetical to the point of the game. And PsyClerk, your points are true, but not limited to these 'virtual' products. I've got a bunch of albums and cassettes in my attic that are worth precisely 0.00. I don't think the purchaser of either Haven or Asheron's Call characters bought those items as an investment.
Ultimately it comes down to a few key points, I think:
* is it legal to buy/sell this product?
* is the price I'm paying for it, worth it to me?
And that's really what's important, and that latter point varies widely. I wouldn't pay a cent for a baseball card, but I know some go for tens of thousands of dollars.

guessed: thanks : ) Although I'd be even higher if I lowed my words-per-post count...

update: I just got a response back from one of the Ebay auctions I was looking at.
I wrote: Hi,
Are these the official, legitimate, United States/Region 1 6-disk set
published by ADV, as shown in the picture here? and linked to ADV's website.

The response?
"This is, actually a 3 disk region free set. "

To me that sounds like 'bootleg.' Maybe a 'professional' bootleg, but with boots, there's no way to be sure. I've read too many anecdotes about horrible transfers or subtitle translations to want to risk it.

Another response from a similar auction:
"This is licensed dvd set released for asian market,
hence it is released in 3 dvds."
So, technically, based on my understanding of the region codes, it's not *really* supposed to be sold here in the US, isn't that right? So is this a 'legitimate' release, or one of those pro-bootlegs?
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']I personally refuse to buy any used anime DVDs because the amount of piracy is ridiculous... you're lucky if you do get a legit one. If you go to Amazon, only order directly through the site... if you get something used through the marketplace you will 99.9% likely get screwed...[/quote]


99.9%? actually most sellers do sell the authentic DVD unless it has been released in the US, 99.9 percent cannot be projected as fact. as odd as it may seem a lot of the pirated DVDs are actually better quality than the original. The "asian version" referred to, do come from actual printing factorys and are stamped instead of burned. (well most of them) and quality is cometimes better.

I do not support piracy but if you think about why it starts, its hard to not root for them. piracy on Anime DVDs is more of an issue here than asia, because it is so expensive! 20 dollars for 3 eposides? because of the high piracy in asia, authentic anime DVDs goes for around 10 dollars US. and the higher end DVDs comes with collectible products. With the way US studios are milking the market as it comes out of underground and into mainstream I'm sure most who buy authentic, will eventually switch to high-end bootleg. the delimas i came arcross while touring in Taiwan was, "hmm should i buy the authentic box set of Ranma , with keychains and english subtitle? for about $30. or bootleg it? the choice was easy, cause the price was right. what do you think america?

BTW: evilmax17
Sam and Max Rocks, and I totally agree, e.g paying $100 bucks for Friends season 1-6 dvd set -VS- Asian version $50 bucks for Friends season 1-9 dvd set, *authentic asian version set distro for china* Hmmmmm I dont know, what a hard decision.
 
So because the evil American anime publishers want 20 bucks for 3-4 episodes, it's okay to buy pirated versions? Some of those Asian 'imports' *are* pirated, ie, produced by someone who doesn't own the rights to the material. Just because they've got a nice printing factory to print labels doesn't mean they're legit [I'm sure some are].
And they have no motivation to lower prices, because a pirate will *always* be able to beat their price. So why bother, if people only look at the cost? A Ferrari costs too much off the dealer, so I'm going to buy this one from a fencing ring for half the cost.
Heck, most anime DVDs come with Subs and Dubs on the same disk, which actually halves the cost right there.
Now, if the Asian versions *are* authentic [which, if they are, they should be R2 or whatever, instead of region-free], then there's a different issue. Lots of people do play imports, but then again, lots don't, and if the R1 publishers don't sell anything, then they'll quit making the products available for the mainstream. Plus if you're buying Asian, well, you're helping America lose jobs.
 
I sold my EQ account for $900 on eBay. I even stopped the auction with a couple days left cuz well, I felt pretty bastardly selling it for that much already, I didn't wanna snake like $1500 from someone (and yes, it probably would have gotten up that high). People have a lot of money and nothing to spend it on, sometimes.
 
[quote name='JibbaJabba'][quote name='Indonesia']looks like the seller is selling Asian version of the game means the game is only for Asian market. Asian version is cheaper. It said thai, mean it may be shipped from thailand.[/quote]


Yes the asian version is cheaper BECAUSE it is a BOOTLEG, FAKE, BURNED,etc....

Where do you think the vast majority of piracy comes from?

Any auction I look at that has the seller from an asian country or states that the item is brand new but item will ship without the box to save on shipping, I hit the back button. Nothing but a waste of time.
If I wanted bootlegs I would make them myself, but I much prefer the originals.


Look on ebay under DVDs for X-files Season 1 - 8. Well over 50% of the listings are bootlegs from an asian country.[/quote]

I dont know about this being bootleg. I know that a lot of times they have these "flea market" type things over there where people sell legit stuff for very cheap. My cousin was over there on a cruise and she bought 100 legit, not burned or bootleg, DVD for $100. They played fine in her american DVD player, and were original american movies.

Besides, what do you care? Use your credit card, play the game and if it doesnt work, charge it back. If this guy has all this positive feedback, i would trust him.
 
[quote name='basketkase543']I was looking for a Knights of the old Republic for PC and i ran into this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3081437311&category=62053

There is no way this game could LEGALLY be selling for $13.99. It says it is new but that it ships without box and manual for $8 in order to save shipping costs. That's a lot of money for shipping if it supposedly comes from Texas. Even more confusing is his overwhelmingly positive feedback. Something is up here.[/quote]

That just screams "SCAM!" Oh course it wont have a manual and box if it is a burned copy.
 
Yeah, people constantly try to sell stuff for Diablo 2. It's pretty bad in the trading channel, so many damn advertising, "GO HERE" "GO THERE!"
Christ man, it is only a game, don't put more money into something like that.
 
[quote name='dustyeff']I sold my EQ account for $900 on eBay. I even stopped the auction with a couple days left cuz well, I felt pretty bastardly selling it for that much already, I didn't wanna snake like $1500 from someone (and yes, it probably would have gotten up that high). People have a lot of money and nothing to spend it on, sometimes.[/quote]

Damn thats insane. I heard about EQ and other MMORPG accounts being auctioned off but thats crazy as hell. Hell my friend is selling his car for $900, at least for that much you should get something tangible and/or useful.
 
I wonder how much that same account is worth now? I know with Asheron's Call, the average player level is greatly increased over the past couple of years. Same goes for items...they had a certain type of mask that used to sell for $20-$25 a pop. Now you couldn't get a nickel for one because they are both common and relatively underpowered. All the more reason to NOT deal in virtual goods.
 
Like anything, the game characters and items lose value over time because newer, better items and higher level caps, etc. come out. Much like how a 1999 model car is worth a whole lot less than a brand new model. Most of the reason I got so much for my account wasn't cuz he was max level, but cuz I had basically the best stuff you could get at the time, stuff you'd have to get a big group of like, 60 to go get. Heh. Some people just don't have the time to do that I guess, and they felt better served by purchasing it.
 
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