Video Game Industry Faces 'Crisis of Creativity'?

I personally have becomed sickened with the sequel-laced gaming industry. Some sequels are well-deserved, however, it is tiresome to play the same game two or three times. The better the graphics get, the worse the gameplay seems to get. Even the vaunted FF series seems to be losing some of its storytelling magic. Although X was masterfully beautiful to look at, I felt that the story didn't come close to touching VII, Tactics, or some of the other older games. What are we to do?
 
Looking through the movie listings, it's hard to see any creativity there either, with sequels and TV show remakes filling up the list. Movies and TV shows have been around for decades and video games has only existed a small percentage of that. Yet imagination has been around since the dawn of time and has taken us this far. The games will come. There is nothing to do but just wait for them.

On a side note, I think its funny that the media will only report on the video game industry if there is a murder trial or controversy surrounding them.
 
While it's true that many new games are based on existing properties, often the games themselves are completely original. For instance, the new MGS looks to be significantly different than previous ones, and the recent Ninja Gaiden is nothing like it's predecessors (and is a LOT better, in fact).
 
Spider-man was good, and the sequel looks better...on both fronts. And then there was Goldeneye, and the new Bond game is its own movie sequel.

I do have to agree that 99% of all movie/comic book games suck, but every once in a while a Simpsons Hit and Run or X-men Arcade comes along
 
You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play.

Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play.

Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.[/quote]

He's right ya know.
When a game first comes out, thats when the big wigs take notice. If the game is flat out dissapointing sales wise, thats when they try and forget it ever existed (unless your sega...). BG&E had great reviews, mild amount of marketing, and a crappy release date... thats why CAG's picked it for $20. Do you think they really notice that "Hey! Our games with millions invested in marketing and production sell great as Value titles!" and then decide to try something new again?
 
[quote name='rebenns']While it's true that many new games are based on existing properties, often the games themselves are completely original. For instance, the new MGS looks to be significantly different than previous ones, and the recent Ninja Gaiden is nothing like it's predecessors (and is a LOT better, in fact).[/quote]

I wouldn't go that far. Different, not better.
 
Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.

Nope. I'm not.. because I can see the big picture.
I bought Ninja 5-0 when it came out.
I bought Wade Hixton's Counter Punch when it came out.
I bought Road Trip when it came out
I bought Seek and Destroy when it came out.
I bought Mr. Mosquito when it came out.
I bought R-Type Final when it came out.
I bought Ikaruga when it came out.
I bought Blowout when it came out.
I bought Bomberman Jetters when it came out.

I buy niche games by smaller developers/publishers the day they come out, because I want those games to be made or brought to the US.

I've got quite a few more I'm willing to buy for full price as soon as they come out.

I mean, I already have a preorder down for La Pucelle.
I have preorders down for Mega Man Aniversary Collection and Mega Man mania.

If a developer makes something I want, I'll be the first in line to support it and vote with my dollars.

I'm mainly using CAG to pick up the major developers games for cheaper, or to find gems that I may have let slip through the cracks.
 
JSweeney you and I are in the same boat. However we're a distinct minority, even on gaming message boards. Anyone that pre-orders La Pucelle is as hardcore as they come. Hell, I'm just getting around to ordering Disgaea today.

I bought Ikaruga, Rayman 3, Amplitude in addition to the games I've already mentioned. I have 200+ games from this generation and LOVE the obscure titles no one else seemingly knows exists. My favorite PS2 game is Rez, next is Maximo and Ico.

I find that with as much crap Sony takes about their approval process for the PS2 it's the system with the most hardcore titles. Hell, we mentioned many of them. Oh, I have Mister Mosquito, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo Man and countless other titles like this. Every time I show Gitaroo Man and Space Channel 5 to people they think I've flipped....
 
The thing about book and movie sequels is that each one is a unique experience. Reading the 4th Harry Potter book doesn't make Books 1-3 obsolete because they are still interesting stories (so I'm told). That's why I think story-driven sequels, like Metal Gear Solid, work well (or Final Fantasy, which is a sequel in name only). But with non-story driven sequels, like the Tony Hawk series, for example, it's like each game - unless they make a huge mistake - makes previous versions obsolete. Why spend time playing the 1st Tony Hawk game when you can play 2, 3, 4, or Underground?
 
I belive that if a formula works in a game don't mess with it. If it aint broke don't fix it! There may always be room for some improvement, but sometimes there isn't and messing with the formula of a game will just kill the game.

We can't allow oursleves to be fickle gamers where every game or sequal has to be completely different or new. Innovation is good if applied properly, but a lot of times it isn't applied properly and games just get messed up. Radical changes in good game formulas usually do more harm than good.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.[/quote]

Who are you to put the blame on others, that's quite hypocritical... you call yourself a CAG as well and take advantage of price drops too. I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury.

I guarantee you the majority of people here don't have the money to drop on release date games. Hence, the cheapassness. If I could I would pay full price, but I don't. Does that translate into lost revenue for that independent software house, theoretically yes, but in actuality no.

It is presumptous to say that CAGers or cheapsses in general are the problem, when the true problem involves many factors, including the creative well-spring drying up temporarily as well as the high standards for success these days. If anything, games seem to be less creative these days because we tend to pigeonhole everything, saying a game is just like GTA, or Halo or .
 
i think the main reason people don't buy new, unadvertized games is b/c of money. not everyone has a lot to spend so when they do, they wanna make sure it'll b worth their money. this however leads to people buying better known games and possibly sequels where the prequel had already proven itself worthy. this is where v start losing the lower budget titles (or not well known).
 
[quote name='magilacudy'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.[/quote]

Who are you to put the blame on others, that's quite hypocritical... you call yourself a CAG as well and take advantage of price drops too. I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury.

I guarantee you the majority of people here don't have the money to drop on release date games. Hence, the cheapassness. If I could I would pay full price, but I don't. Does that translate into lost revenue for that independent software house, theoretically yes, but in actuality no.

It is presumptous to say that CAGers or cheapsses in general are the problem, when the true problem involves many factors, including the creative well-spring drying up temporarily as well as the high standards for success these days. If anything, games seem to be less creative these days because we tend to pigeonhole everything, saying a game is just like GTA, or Halo or .[/quote]

Amen, Magilacudy! If CAGs are such a "problem" then PAD and his buddies should go elsewhere.
 
JSweeney you and I are in the same boat. However we're a distinct minority, even on gaming message boards. Anyone that pre-orders La Pucelle is as hardcore as they come. Hell, I'm just getting around to ordering Disgaea today.

The thing is, I don't define myself as hardcore. I enjoy good games, and have the sense to know that if there is a style of games you like, or a price point you'd like to catch on, you support those games.
Why do you think Majesco and Altus keep on bringing over Japanese games that you'd never get to play... because they can sell them at a reduced cost, and still make money. So long as they keep these practices up, I'll keep buying.




I find that with as much crap Sony takes about their approval process for the PS2 it's the system with the most hardcore titles.

That's wrong. The reason Sony gets the niche titles is because they have a HUGE userbase, and the third parties don't have to worry about an inordinately strong support base for first party games.
Some of Nintendo's lastest stuff has been far more creative and more aimed as niche audiences.

Hell, we mentioned many of them. Oh, I have Mister Mosquito, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo Man and countless other titles like this. Every time I show Gitaroo Man and Space Channel 5 to people they think I've flipped....
Altus, Altus, Koei. Sony has very little to do with those games. The reason they end up on the PS2 is so that they can exploit the huge userbase and hopefully break off a decent share of user for itself.
If Nintendo or Microsoft had the install base of the PS2, they would have almost all the niche titles on thier console.
 
Hey, most people on this board won't even pick up original titles. Don't bother shifiting the blame to me and saying I should go somewhere else. The games I've picked up on the cheap and find out about from this board sometimes fall through the cracks of my buying schedule. I buy like 8 games a month, even at that rate I can't keep up with every release. Then by the time I do get to them they're $19.99 or $29.99. Battlestar Galactica, I:Ninja, Goblin Commander are all examples of that. With how crowded 4th quarter was last year not even avid collectors like me would have picked them up before PGR 2, SSX 3, Rainbow Six III, Links, Top Spin or countless others.

Meanwhile we have people on here educating people on the Wal Mart scam, people inquiring about how to get a shrink wrapped game to return and the like. I write a critical post of gamers and posters go ballistic and tell me I should STFU or leave? I think I proved my point when you protest too much, the truth hurts.

Oh, and I'm happy to report, I finally got around to ordering Disgaea today.... for $49.99. Can't find a CAG deal on that one.

I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury.
Click to expand...

This is bull. People here pass over "hardcore" games when they are cheap. How many threads have we seen about Sphinx, BG&E, I:Ninja, Rygar, Kya and other "hardcore" games? Dozens? Even when these games are rock bottom cheap they sit and sit. There's no reason I should be able to walk into a store and see 5 copeis of Beyond Good & Evil at $19.99. They should be gone, period.

The point is people don't recognize good games anymore. Then you magnify it with the internet and boards like this, IGN, Gamespot... they're all the same, and posters say "I'll wait until the price drops." even though they want it. Listen, I know games are expensive. $50 is too much to do several times a month. However you can't excuse a game like R:Type Final that came out at $29.99 for not doing well, it's not the game... it's the buying public.

You're right when you say it's a complex issue but even when these games do go cheap they aren't picked up.
 
I think there is a tendency to believe that because we like something, it should sell well. Take Ico for example. I bought it when it was new (buy 2 get 1 free offer at Toys R Us, Fall 2001) but there's NO WAY I would recommend it to a casual player. They would be deeply disappointed. It's not immediately gratifying - it's sort of a sublime, subtle charm - and I know people would feel it's a bit short and lacks replay value (because it is and does).
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play.

Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.[/quote]

Wow, I've never thought about it that way. Well written. =D>
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play.

Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.[/quote]

Excuse me? I'm a huge, serious (hate to use the word "hardcore") gamer, and I wouldn't bother reading EGM. or Play. Or insert magazine here. Any gamer in the know is aware that print magazines are 100% useless. Not only is their information severely dated at time of distribution, but if you wanted a review or whatever - a print magazine isn't the place to get it.

Quite the contrary, casual gamers ARE the ones who buy EGM and Play. They're the ones who pick up EGM when they see some guy with a gun or a woman with nice breasts on the cover - not me. Have you even seen the kind of people who write letters in to EGM? They ask if Ninja Gaiden is coming to Ps2, or if Halo might be ported to Ps2. They don't have a clue what's going on - like every other casual gamer.
 
I have more than 10 different systems and over 500 games but I'm a "casual" gamer just because I read EGM? I did not know that.
 
[quote name='Machine']I have more than 10 different systems and over 500 games but I'm a "casual" gamer just because I read EGM? I did not know that.[/quote]

My point is that a casual gamer would be moreso inclined to read EGM, not necessarily that only casual gamers read it.
 
I read EGM, GamePro, Xbox Nation, PSM, and probably three or four others, plus a bunch of PC mags. I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer, but neither am I a casual gamer, I don't think. I read them for a couple reasons: they're nice to read in places where I can't use my computer; sometimes I get a game after it's been out, and I read the old issues/articles; I like to get varied opinions in reviews, and the most important reason--I get all those mags for free.
Anyway, to tackle the original topic--I don't know if I'd call it a 'crisis' but certainly many video games aren't that creative--whether they be sequels, 'remakes,', or outright ripoffs. Even a ripoff isn't necessarily bad, if it's fun [Simpsons Hit and Run]. But that's not solely video games--look at your TV, 90% of the programming is either stunt shows, reality shows, 'real tv', or relationship shows. Sturgeon's Law still applies--90% of everything is crap, and mostly derivative crap at that, appealing to the lowest common denominator, or the middle. If a game sells well, most companies will churn out a sequel that doesn't alter the formula too much, to try to capitalize on that sale. Some sequels do rely on the name only, without offering anything new or fun [Twisted Metal 3 and 4, Tomb Raider], some alter certain aspects which can either benefit the game/gamer by showing something new, or alienate fans by changing a successful formula [Final Fantasy series does both of that--I haven't got FFx-2 yet, but I know I will, because I have played and liked 7,8,9,10.]
I think preordering can definitely have an affect on this phenomenon, because then the manufacturer can judge the demand for the game and start sequels already. But in a way, that's a chicken and egg thing, because the stores don't offer/push preorders on every title.
 
This creativity crisis argument is as old as the game industry. There have ALWAYS been sequels and movie/tv tie-ins. It's not that there is a lack of creativity, it's just that creativity is stifled in the name of sales and release dates. The majority of gamers doesn't notice because all they want is their yearly Madden update and a good deer hunting game. The people like us that care are a small minority. Anyways, the only people who are allowed to be truly creative are people like Miyamoto and Kojima who can take risks because their normal work is so successful. If anyone else tried to make a game like Pikmin or Boktai, they would be laughed at.
 
There are a lot of reasons a game might not sell well, and a lot of it has to do with what games are out when said game is released. If there is a popular game out and you release your game don't expect people to just abandon the popular game just to get yours. The popular game was out first, is probably on sale, and has a lot of word of mouth.

The problem isn't CAGer's (ridiculous idea to begin with), the problem lies with the publishers who want their game to be a top seller no matter the circumstances, and then when the game doesn't sell well they blame it on the developer and say their idea sucked which is utter bullshit a lot of times. The developers in turn rush to radically alter their games in hopes of becoming a top seller even if it means that the game will be dumbed down (DX:IW), or whatever.
 
[quote name='SolinariDotCom']
Excuse me? I'm a huge, serious (hate to use the word "hardcore") gamer, and I wouldn't bother reading EGM. or Play. Or insert magazine here. Any gamer in the know is aware that print magazines are 100% useless. Not only is their information severely dated at time of distribution, but if you wanted a review or whatever - a print magazine isn't the place to get it.

Quite the contrary, casual gamers ARE the ones who buy EGM and Play. They're the ones who pick up EGM when they see some guy with a gun or a woman with nice breasts on the cover - not me. Have you even seen the kind of people who write letters in to EGM? They ask if Ninja Gaiden is coming to Ps2, or if Halo might be ported to Ps2. They don't have a clue what's going on - like every other casual gamer.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Casual gamers may be the ones who pick up magazines off the newstand, but you have to be pretty interested in games to subscribe to a magazine. The reason I get EGM is not for its news, because, as you say, it is outdated, but because I personally find it to be the most trustworthy source for reviews. That, to me, is THE reason to get a magazine - because you like the reviews.
 
I see that no one has touched on the subject of the cost of games. I know that I am not the only one who has noticed publishers and game developers have yet to drop the New Release price point as they had in the past. Same is true for the systems. I don't believe that it is the consumer's fault that game creativity seems to be lacking. Nor do I believe CAGers are to blame for not helping niche games get exposure. The publishers are to blame. If they would lower the damned price point it would be easier to buy games and more of them. I'd be willing to risk a $25 or $30 purchase on an obscure title but $50 is really too much to ask for. BG&E is currently the ONLY exception to this rule.

Bottom line. Lower the release price point, reach a wider audience, and games become even more mainstream. Think about it.
 
[quote name='daphatty']I see that no one has touched on the subject of the cost of games. I know that I am not the only one who has noticed publishers and game developers have yet to drop the New Release price point as they had in the past. Same is true for the systems. I don't believe that it is the consumer's fault that game creativity seems to be lacking. Nor do I believe CAGers are to blame for not helping niche games get exposure. The publishers are to blame. If they would lower the damned price point it would be easier to buy games and more of them. I'd be willing to risk a $25 or $30 purchase on an obscure title but $50 is really too much to ask for. BG&E is currently the ONLY exception to this rule.

Bottom line. Lower the release price point, reach a wider audience, and games become even more mainstream. Think about it.[/quote]

The thing is, that won't reward creativity. Lots of good, creative games get released at a diminished price point, yet still get ignored. When's the last time you heard someone talk about the Choro Q games? Road Trip and Seek and Destroy released at a 20 dollar price point and were still completely ignored. Heck, they were still ignored during the Toy R Us Buy one get one free sales.. and Seek and destroy was marked at 10 and Road Trip at 15. People could have bought these games for 7.50 each BRAND NEW... but they didn't.


Road Trip Arcade Edition just got released over a week ago.. did you here anyone say a word about it? These are good games, with good production values that were full priced releases in Japan. Look at R-Type Final... released at $30.. even it languishes on the shelf, and it's the Final installment of a storied franchise.

People don't want creativity, they want hype. Then, when the over hyped games they buy suck, they begin to bitch about creativity.
Some of Nintendo's games on the Gamecube were hugely creative... yet they died on the shelves while people bitched about cel shading Zelda, Giving Mario a Water Pack, and how Metroid shouldn't be 3-D.
So basically, they ignored new creative games and then went on to bitch about creative additions to long running franchises. I'm not so sure it's the industry that has a problem with creativity... it's seems like it's fanbases. They bitch when things get changed, and they bitch when they don't.

There has be large amounts of new, creative software on each of the three home consoles and on the gameboy.. the problem is, most of it didn't sell. People bought thier year games just like every year, and then ran to buy the latest, greatest overhyped thing.

What's the point in being creative if cookie cutter sequels and minor upgrades are what is driving sales?
 
[quote name='daphatty']I see that no one has touched on the subject of the cost of games. I know that I am not the only one who has noticed publishers and game developers have yet to drop the New Release price point as they had in the past. Same is true for the systems. I don't believe that it is the consumer's fault that game creativity seems to be lacking. Nor do I believe CAGers are to blame for not helping niche games get exposure. The publishers are to blame. If they would lower the damned price point it would be easier to buy games and more of them. I'd be willing to risk a $25 or $30 purchase on an obscure title but $50 is really too much to ask for. BG&E is currently the ONLY exception to this rule.

Bottom line. Lower the release price point, reach a wider audience, and games become even more mainstream. Think about it.[/quote]

Very good point.

And just because something is "creative" and new doesn't mean it is good. A game where you stick your finger up someone's ass is creative, but it sucks.
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='daphatty']I see that no one has touched on the subject of the cost of games. I know that I am not the only one who has noticed publishers and game developers have yet to drop the New Release price point as they had in the past. Same is true for the systems. I don't believe that it is the consumer's fault that game creativity seems to be lacking. Nor do I believe CAGers are to blame for not helping niche games get exposure. The publishers are to blame. If they would lower the damned price point it would be easier to buy games and more of them. I'd be willing to risk a $25 or $30 purchase on an obscure title but $50 is really too much to ask for. BG&E is currently the ONLY exception to this rule.

Bottom line. Lower the release price point, reach a wider audience, and games become even more mainstream. Think about it.[/quote]

Very good point.

And just because something is "creative" and new doesn't mean it is good. A game where you stick your finger up someone's ass is creative, but it sucks.[/quote]

Of course... but a game can still be hugely creative, dripping with quality and cheap as sin, and still get passed over in favor of Madden 200-Whatever or Grand Theft Auto. Creativity and quality aren't as well rewarded as a known franchise or "mature themes". Hype still seems to be the dominant factor in game sales, despite the huge amount of information available to the game buying public.
 
I hope you understand that hype = advertising

So you can't expect a game that people barely know about to sell well.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']I hope you understand that hype = advertising

So you can't expect a game that people barely know about to sell well.[/quote]

Yet anomalies still happen. Look at Prince of Persia. Storied franchise, polished game, and it was given the benefit of most of the advertising budget from Ubisoft... yet it didn't even move that many copies until they bundled it with Splinter Cell.
To add insult to injury, Beyond Good and Evil got just about no advertising thanks to the push that was given to Prince of Persia.

Ubisoft made two good, polished games, spend the advertising dollars to get one of their names out there...and they still walked away with two games with disappointing sales.

People don't just buy games based on quality and creativity... hype and the "cool" factor are playing a huge role as well.
 
What we need to do is create a site (either here at CAG or as an affiliate) that is dedicated to spreading the word about niche or low hype games that really are worth the money. I have yet to find a site dedicated only to the unique, obscure, enjoyable, non-mainstream games. Oh the possibilities are endless. Anyone else think this is a good idea?
 
[quote name='JSweeney']
Yet anomalies still happen. Look at Prince of Persia. Storied franchise, polished game, and it was given the benefit of most of the advertising budget from Ubisoft... yet it didn't even move that many copies until they bundled it with Splinter Cell.
To add insult to injury, Beyond Good and Evil got just about no advertising thanks to the push that was given to Prince of Persia.

Ubisoft made two good, polished games, spend the advertising dollars to get one of their names out there...and they still walked away with two games with disappointing sales.

People don't just buy games based on quality and creativity... hype and the "cool" factor are playing a huge role as well.[/quote]

It seems like "new" franchises aimed at the "Teen" audience, like PoP and BG&E, are hard to sell to casual gamers. I guess it's because a game with wanton violence (GTA) or stealthy, covert-type stuff (Splinter Cell) has more widespread appeal than a game about a prince who swings from poles and runs on walls or about a woman with a camera who...does stuff (haven't played BG&E). But I dunno.....I can't blame people for what they like and dislike. I mean, if I lived in Japan I'd probably be annoyed at all the train-simulation and horse-racing games that get bought, while good action games are ignored.
 
[quote name='vshekar'][quote name='SolinariDotCom']
Excuse me? I'm a huge, serious (hate to use the word "hardcore") gamer, and I wouldn't bother reading EGM. or Play. Or insert magazine here. Any gamer in the know is aware that print magazines are 100% useless. Not only is their information severely dated at time of distribution, but if you wanted a review or whatever - a print magazine isn't the place to get it.

Quite the contrary, casual gamers ARE the ones who buy EGM and Play. They're the ones who pick up EGM when they see some guy with a gun or a woman with nice breasts on the cover - not me. Have you even seen the kind of people who write letters in to EGM? They ask if Ninja Gaiden is coming to Ps2, or if Halo might be ported to Ps2. They don't have a clue what's going on - like every other casual gamer.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Casual gamers may be the ones who pick up magazines off the newstand, but you have to be pretty interested in games to subscribe to a magazine. The reason I get EGM is not for its news, because, as you say, it is outdated, but because I personally find it to be the most trustworthy source for reviews. That, to me, is THE reason to get a magazine - because you like the reviews.[/quote]

I never noticed much worth in their paragraph-sized reviews. News is out of date, reviews are incapable and out of date, previews are out of date, rumors are out of date, letters are often stupified and yet are sent in by "long time fans". There aren't any redeeming qualities of print in the age of the internet.
 
[quote name='vshekar'][quote name='JSweeney']
Yet anomalies still happen. Look at Prince of Persia. Storied franchise, polished game, and it was given the benefit of most of the advertising budget from Ubisoft... yet it didn't even move that many copies until they bundled it with Splinter Cell.
To add insult to injury, Beyond Good and Evil got just about no advertising thanks to the push that was given to Prince of Persia.

Ubisoft made two good, polished games, spend the advertising dollars to get one of their names out there...and they still walked away with two games with disappointing sales.

People don't just buy games based on quality and creativity... hype and the "cool" factor are playing a huge role as well.[/quote]

It seems like "new" franchises aimed at the "Teen" audience, like PoP and BG&E, are hard to sell to casual gamers. I guess it's because a game with wanton violence (GTA) or stealthy, covert-type stuff (Splinter Cell) has more widespread appeal than a game about a prince who swings from poles and runs on walls or about a woman with a camera who...does stuff (haven't played BG&E). But I dunno.....I can't blame people for what they like and dislike. I mean, if I lived in Japan I'd probably be annoyed at all the train-simulation and horse-racing games that get bought, while good action games are ignored.[/quote]


I think the audience for video games this generation is the most critical. I guess I'm around 'Generation X' age, raised on NES. For me, if a game has good gameplay I'll play it. However, most the kids these days have been raised on big releases, like Tomb Raiders, FF7, GTA, Metroid Prime, etc. Gaming for them is equated with big budget hype. I'm not saying its their fault, but they are the driving force in the market. They aren't your hardcore gamers, or even casual ones. They lie somewhere in between. This age bracket has the most disposable income and thus makes or breaks any prospective game. Its somewhat of a paradox in the industry. The urge is there to expand and evolve, yet you still have to cater to the demographic to make any money. Unfortunately that just means sticking to tried and true genres with better graphics, more hype and lesser quality gameplay.
 
I'm trying hard to think of a game that's actually worth $50. I'm a family man, make decent money, but I don't have $50 to throw around in a crap shoot when buying any game like most of you youngens out there who buy 8 games a month.

Most games are like gambling, or a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get. My point is that MOST games can be worth $30 to me, so I can wait for the price drop to get my target value.

Perhaps if we ALL did this the game companies would realize they have to work harder for our $50 in the first place. Unfortunately, there are minions of spoiled children out there who live with mommy and daddy and don't have a mortgage or car payment. They are more than willing to spend $400 a month on crappy new release games that fuel the beast.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']I'm trying hard to think of a game that's actually worth $50. I'm a family man, make decent money, but I don't have $50 to throw around in a crap shoot when buying any game like most of you youngens out there who buy 8 games a month.

Most games are like gambling, or a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get. My point is that MOST games can be worth $30 to me, so I can wait for the price drop to get my target value.

Perhaps if we ALL did this the game companies would realize they have to work harder for our $50 in the first place. Unfortunately, there are minions of spoiled children out there who live with mommy and daddy and don't have a mortgage or car payment. They are more than willing to spend $400 a month on crappy new release games that fuel the beast.[/quote]

So long as you only want games from major development houses, and don't care if a company doesn't bring a specific game over from Japan, that's a fine (and actually rather wise) course to take. If you only want domestically produced or major franchise games, you're a fool if you drop 50 dollars on the game (unless there is some value added to it...some cool bonus the gamemaker throws in). All of those games will eventually drop to 30 and then to 20... more likely than not, they'll hit the platinum hits, player's choice, or Greatest hits lineups.

But if you want specific games from Japan be brought over (like Nintendo's Custom Robo) you better be willing to shell out when it does, or Nintendo is less apt to consider bringing over games that were "less than stellar" performers in Japan.

If you want collection games, you have to buy those to. Sure, they're great profit centers for a gamemaker (they get to sell old games ported over to a system as a brand new game), but if they don't sell, they don't get made. That's a big reason why I'm going to be buying Mega Man Anniversary collection AND Mega Man Mania when they both come out.

Of course, 30 dollars and less is kind of a sweet spot for pricing. Looking back on the games I've bought for all the systems, I've probably bought more games for my Gameboy Advance than for anything else... and a lot of that probably has to do with the price points... any game you want you can find for less than 30 dollars, and there are even gamemakers that make "budget" games that can be had for 10-15 dollars. I don't know about you, but if I can get a brand new, fun videogame for 10-15 dollars, I'll buy it fairly quickly. I mean, there's not much sacrifice made for a 10-15 dollar game... that's like skipping or bringing a bag lunch to work instead of going out to eat, or just not going to a movie on Friday and watching one on TV instead (actually, you could probably say that about a 30 dollar game as well...)
 
Just so we have an understanding.. I'm not one who goes out and spends 400 on "crappy new releases either".. the games I bought new that are niche titles traditionally have lower price points that average as well.

$30-I bought Ninja 5-0 when it came out.
$20-I bought Wade Hixton's Counter Punch when it came out.
$20-I bought Road Trip when it came out
$20-I bought Seek and Destroy when it came out.*
$50-I bought Mr. Mosquito when it came out.
$40-I bought R-Type Final when it came out.
$50-I bought Ikaruga when it came out.
$10-I bought Blowout when it came out.
$20-I bought Bomberman Jetters when it came out.

*Bought during a TRU B1G1 sale, so it was actually free.

See, you don't have to break yourself to try and support niche games.
Actually, some times it's smarter to buy niche games when they are brand new... Shortly after it's release, Ninja 5-0 became very difficult to find..and some people looking for it now have to pay more for it now than the release price. (considering the amount of gas, time and effort it would take to locate a copy).
 
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