What the hell is wrong with the Catholic Church

Ikohn4ever

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Vatican defends Brazil excommunication

March 8, 2009, 6:40 am
A senior Vatican cleric has defended the excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion in Brazil after being raped.
Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, head of the Catholic church's Congregation for Bishops, told the daily La Stampa on Saturday that the twins the girl had been carrying had a right to live.
"It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons, who had the right to live and could not be eliminated," he said.

Re, who also heads the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, added: "Life must always be protected, the attack on the Brazilian church is unjustified."
The row was triggered by the termination on Wednesday of twin foetuses carried by a nine-year-old allegedly raped by her stepfather in the Brazilian state of Pernambuco.
The regional archbishop, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, pronounced excommunication for the mother for authorising the operation and doctors who carried it out for fear that the slim girl would not survive carrying the foetuses to term.

"God's law is above any human law. So when a human law ... is contrary to God's law, this human law has no value," Cardoso had said.
He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed "a heinous crime ... the abortion - the elimination of an innocent life - was more serious".
Battista Re agreed, saying: "Excommunication for those who carried out the abortion is just" as a pregnancy termination always meant ending an innocent life.
The case has sparked fierce debate in Brazil, where abortion is illegal except in cases of rape or if the woman's health is in danger.

On Friday, President Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva hit out at Sobrinho's decision, saying: "As a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic church has such a conservative attitude."
"The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old," he said, adding that "in this case, the medical profession was more right than the church."
One of the doctors involved in the abortion, Rivaldo Albuquerque, told Globo television that he would keep going to mass, regardless of the archbishop's order.

"The people want a church full of forgiveness, love and mercy," he said.
Health Minister Jose Gomes Temporao also slammed the archbishop.
"Two things strike me: the assault on the girl and the position of this bishop, which is truly lamentable," he said.
The girl, who was not identified because she is a minor, was last week found to be four months' pregnant after being taken to hospital suffering stomach pains.
Officials said she told them she had suffered sexual abuse by her stepfather since the age of six.
Police said the 23-year-old stepfather also allegedly sexually abused the girl's physically handicapped 14-year-old sister.
He was arrested a week ago and is being kept in protective custody. If convicted, he faces up to 15 years in prison.
The website of the news group Globo reported that another girl, aged 11, had been found to be seven months pregnant following alleged sexual abuse at the hands of her adoptive father.
The girl has said she does not intend to seek an abortion, according to reports.


http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5375029/vatican-defends-brazil-excommunication/







I think just about all of us can agree that a 9 year old rape victim carrying twins should have an abortion if she wants, yet the rapist is not excommunicated.
 
I don't understand..Didn't the rapist offer the family 50 shekels to take her as his wife? That would seem like the only right thing to do. Maybe he didn't, and they were forced to have the abortion out of embarrassment.
 
Oh no, I've been kicked out of the fan club for the imaginary man in the sky!

:roll:

Do you really need to have the blessing of a man in silk robes to have faith? The church has nothing to do with God.

I find it sad that they'd go out of their way to do this, but it's ultimately meaningless.
 
I read catholic church, yawned and stopped reading. Still don't get why people follow this religious bull blindly.
 
So, are we all atheists? I seriously don't understand how the world feels so overwhelmingly non-believer yet the official stats typically report 1% - 3% of Americans as atheist, and never higher than 10%. Based on anecdotal evidence, if I had no access to the stats, I'd probably estimate Seattle is about 90% atheist.


[quote name='Kayden']Oh no, I've been kicked out of the fan club for the imaginary man in the sky![/QUOTE]

rofl
 
Those figures probably come from people claiming the US is a Christian nation.
[quote name='Koggit']So, are we all atheists? I seriously don't understand how the world feels so overwhelmingly non-believer yet the official stats typically report 1% - 3% of Americans as atheist, and never higher than 10%. Based on anecdotal evidence, if I had no access to the stats, I'd probably estimate Seattle is about 90% atheist.




rofl
 
[quote name='Koggit']So, are we all atheists? I seriously don't understand how the world feels so overwhelmingly non-believer yet the official stats typically report 1% - 3% of Americans as atheist, and never higher than 10%. Based on anecdotal evidence, if I had no access to the stats, I'd probably estimate Seattle is about 90% atheist.




rofl
 
Organized religion is useless and just used to control people and force morals on people--always has been, always will be.

There may well be a god (I don't believe so personally), but organized religion has always been a scourge on society.
 
faith is a scourge, in all forms.. don't even need organized religion to have a problem

[quote name='BigT']It's because you can never be certain what is in the world beyond... if there's nothing, then you don't lose too much by being a believer... if there is something grand, then you might lose out big by being a non-believer...[/QUOTE]
rofl.. whatever.. why not believe in Zeus? you never know, there might be a Zeus.. if you decide to believe there isn't and you're wrong, man, you're gonna be screwed! better hurry up and start praying to Zeus... just in case, right? just in case..
 
[quote name='BigT']It's because you can never be certain what is in the world beyond... if there's nothing, then you don't lose too much by being a believer... if there is something grand, then you might lose out big by being a non-believer...


Back to the story... even an anti-abortion Catholic guy like me would not agree with this decision... it is not as if the girl did something irresponsible and got pregnant... She was impregnated by an unlawful act without her consent (implicit or otherwise), thus she should not be required to continue her pregnancy... in this case, the choice whether she should have an abortion or not should be her's... IMHO, and with all due respect, the Cardinal got it wrong.[/quote]


How is it her choice? Shes 9!! Your the medical expert, would you suggest a 9 year old to go through a full term pregnancy?
 
[quote name='homeland']How is it her choice? Shes 9!! Your the medical expert, would you suggest a 9 year old to go through a full term pregnancy?[/quote]

In his defense... well. the Catholic's defense they'd say it's the "will of god" and it will be the "will of god" untill it dies. Kinda like what the father of the delusional mother of a thousand kinds said. Yep, even he played that card...
 
[quote name='homeland']How is it her choice? Shes 9!! Your the medical expert, would you suggest a 9 year old to go through a full term pregnancy?[/quote]

It would be unethical for a physician to force anyone to go through with an abortion (or any other medical procedure). Consent would have to be obtained from the patient or the parents (depending on local law)... with teenage pregnancy in the states, usually the patient gets to make the choice on whether to abort or carry to term.

The role of the physician would be to describe the risks and benefits of either course of action to the patient, who would then decide.

A very young age is not an absolute contraindication to pregnancy... although I've never seen one this young... it is possible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers



...and besides, if you read what I wrote before, I'm arguing that abortion would be a reasonable choice in this case... geez...
 
Man... I just realized I've been devil talking and I'm sitting here at work in a buddhist church. I'm goin to hell for sure.
 
I've often thought of trying to bring the Greek gods back into fashion.

Lets be honest, Zeus > Jesus. One was the god of thunder, the other could walk on water, lets see Jesus walk on water while being electrocuted.

:twisted:
 
:facepalm: Wait, I'll take the time to pull up that facepalm pic. Oh oh... Even better!

facepalm_statue.jpg
 
Stupid people asking stupid questions to other stupid people does not make evidence.

Wow... It's hard to argue against that just because their arguments are that stupid. They attribute all the good characteristics of people to God and all the bad to being human. I can't have morals without believing in God? I can't want to live without God?

You really can't argue with people that spend their lives crafting the most cunning arguments possible. Most of the questions they pose are worded so you look like the bad guy either way. Any time you say you don't know, it means you're obviously wrong, whereas they can say "God did it" and they are automatically right.

Why do you have to have concrete proof of evolution in your pocket while you can just dismiss the needing of proof for religion as faith. Can't I have faith in science? I can't prove the moon is 250 million miles away from the Earth, but I believe it. I can't pull out my tape measure and say, yep, that's definitely 250 million miles.

His argument against evolution shows he knows nothing about it. There wasn't a monkey sitting in a tree that one day plopped out a human that stood on two legs and rode a vespa. Is he just incapable of gray zones? I suppose when you honestly believe the world is 4000 years old, it's hard to imagine it taking 50,000 years for a single gene mutation to become common place, not to mention developing lungs or wings.
 
[quote name='Kayden']I can't have morals without believing in God? I can't want to live without God?[/quote]

fuck no... If you don't believe in god ur going to hell. I mistakenly went to a youth group and the leader straight up said that. That was the last time I ever went there. This was when I was younger and my parents made me go to this crap, btw
 
Those fear tactics work on a lot of people.

"You'll go to hell if you don't do this."


"But I don't believe in a 'hell'..."


"Yeah I know it's a crazy idea, but you can't prove it doesn't exist so what happens if it does? Do you really wanna take that chance?"


Our ancestors will read about this in their history books and think we were complete morons... well, I guess they'll be right, but still, it's embarrassing that so many people believe in these fairy tales.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I've often thought of trying to bring the Greek gods back into fashion.

Lets be honest, Zeus > Jesus. One was the god of thunder, the other could walk on water, lets see Jesus walk on water while being electrocuted.

:twisted:[/quote]

Zeus was not the god of thunder, that's the Nordic god Thor. Sure Zeus could control lightning but it was hardly the most formidible of his powers. It would be like saying Superman is the superhero with xray vision or Jesus is the guy with the 1up - sure it's one of his superpowers, but it doesn't define him.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Our ancestors will read about this in their history books and think we were complete morons... well, I guess they'll be right, but still, it's embarrassing that so many people believe in these fairy tales.[/quote]

Probably not. As things get worse in the short term, people are going to look for something to give them hope. Whatever is strongest will lose the most believers. In today's world, that would be government.

Throw in a little ergot poisoning and you'll have a great revival.

GO TEAM JEEBUS!!!
 
[quote name='camoor']Zeus was not the god of thunder, that's the Nordic god Thor. Sure Zeus could control lightning but it was hardly the most formidible of his powers. It would be like saying Superman is the superhero with xray vision or Jesus is the guy with the 1up - sure it's one of his superpowers, but it doesn't define him.[/quote]

I know it's wikipedia, but anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus

And it was a damn joke, sheesh, i didn't want an argument on Greek mythology.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I think just about all of us can agree that a 9 year old rape victim carrying twins should have an abortion if she wants, yet the rapist is not excommunicated.[/QUOTE]

EDIT: doh, need to read the article more carefully next time.
 
[quote name='Koggit']So, are we all atheists? I seriously don't understand how the world feels so overwhelmingly non-believer yet the official stats typically report 1% - 3% of Americans as atheist, and never higher than 10%. Based on anecdotal evidence, if I had no access to the stats, I'd probably estimate Seattle is about 90% atheist.




rofl
 
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