Your Taxes Under McCain and Obama

mykevermin

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The Tax Policy Center is a side group of The Brookings Institution.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/election_issues_matrix.cfm
Simplified matrix of tax changes under each candidate

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=1840
Table displaying change in federal income tax liability based on number of earners and total income (married couples)

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=1839
Same thing but for single individuals.

Simple summary:
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Obama's tax cuts will save you more money than John McCain's, provided you make under $150,000 per year. And there's a 95% chance that you do.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Obama's tax cuts will save you more money than John McCain's, provided you make under $150,000 per year. And there's a 95% chance that you do.[/QUOTE]

Looking at the table above, looks like the $112,000 bracket listed shows McCain cutting about $400 more than Obama.

Still well below most peoples income, including mine now and even after I graduate next summer. Though if I marry my current girlfriend our combined income would be above that.

But can't say I care, I'm a big supporter of the well off in society carrying most of the tax burden.
 
The +$12 and -$19 makes me cry foul as I think those numbers will go higher.

The top 2 brackets under Obama's plan...that's kinda scary for those people. Especially on a yearly basis. That's really insane. $700,000 a year? That's a bit much.
 
Nice chart. Most people still believe that democrats will tax them more anyway though.

[quote name='KingBroly']The top 2 brackets under Obama's plan...that's kinda scary for those people. Especially on a yearly basis. That's really insane. $700,000 a year? That's a bit much.[/quote]

I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'd be quite happy with what I had left.
 
It's still a helluvalotta cash for people who are in that situation now would have to pay.

And they'd more likely end up with somewhere around 2 million, not 2.2 as that's how much would your taxes go up by.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']It's still a helluvalotta cash for people who are in that situation now would have to pay.

And they'd more likely end up with somewhere around 2 million, not 2.2 as that's how much would your taxes go up by.[/quote]

Yeah I edited it out a second after I posted it. It seems quite nice to me.
 
[quote name='SpazX']
I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'd be quite happy with what I had left.[/QUOTE]

Same here.

And keep in mind those are averages and that top category is $2.9 Million and up. Point being the average is going to be skiewed up by the outliers making tens of millions a year and more. Some one making 2.9 million probably won't see a 700K increase, that's just the average increase for people over 2.9 million as a whole.

But again, I have no problem with people making millions paying a hefty chunk of change in tax. Trickle down economics doesn't work. It's not good for the overall economy to have so much a a nation's wealth concentrated in the top 1% or less of the population.
 
I don't think you'd think it nice of the Government to take nearly a fourth of your yearly paycheck extra if you were earning 2.9 million now.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't think you'd think it nice of the Government to take nearly a fourth of your yearly paycheck extra if you were earning 2.9 million now.[/quote]

I dunno, games cost $60 whether I've got $100 or $1,000,000. If I wasted a ton of money then I might be pissed as I wouldn't have as much to waste, but it all depends on how well you spend your money.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't think you'd think it nice of the Government to take nearly a fourth of your yearly paycheck extra if you were earning 2.9 million now.[/QUOTE]

I'd live with it as I support my principles above all else.

I'm not idly talking either, my girlfriend and I both do pretty well for ourselves in our field. When I'm done with school next year our combined in come would be in the low six figures and if we both continue working hard and advancing we can be $200-300K combined in a decade.

We won't be millionaires, but we'll be in the brackets paying a good chunk more under Obama. And I'm fine with it as I believe in social programs, putting a lot more money in education etc.

Point being, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

[quote name='SpazX']I dunno, games cost $60 whether I've got $100 or $1,000,000. If I wasted a ton of money then I might be pissed as I wouldn't have as much to waste, but it all depends on how well you spend your money.[/QUOTE]

I'm much the same. I'm not very needy or materialistic as I spend a lot of my time on my work or doing cheap things like watching a DVD from Netflix. Probably the only place I have semi expensive tastes is beer, as I'm a beer snob and only drink good microbrews and imports. :D

I have no ambition to be wealthy. I just enjoy my work and work hard because of that.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't think you'd think it nice of the Government to take nearly a fourth of your yearly paycheck extra if you were earning 2.9 million now.[/QUOTE]

You seem to be missing the point.

Over and over again.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You seem to be missing the point.

Over and over again.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he is. He's just talking about that upper 1% or less. Obama's plan is a real kick in the nuts for these greedy rich folks that only care about making as much money as they can for themselves.

That point has nothing to do with Obama's plan being better for 95% of the country. I think he realizes that.
 
No, no. He's talking about the 700K increase in tax burden, as if that's what those earning $2.9m/year will see.

He's constantly overlooking the idea of "mean" and "outliers" is what I'm saying. It's silly, and at this point, deliberate.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You seem to be missing the point.

Over and over again.[/QUOTE]

Well, then what is the point?

Without looking it up, what percentage of total tax revenue do you think the top 1/3 of the population account for and what percent would you think is fair?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']No, no. He's talking about the 700K increase in tax burden, as if that's what those earning $2.9m/year will see.

He's constantly overlooking the idea of "mean" and "outliers" is what I'm saying. It's silly, and at this point, deliberate.[/QUOTE]

Ah, that I see and pointed out above. His numbers are off, but there is no denying that Obama's tax plan will suck for those in the top 1%.

Again, I think it's a good thing. They should bear more burden to society for the success society has allowed them to achieve.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Well, then what is the point?

Without looking it up, what percentage of total tax revenue do you think the top 1/3 of the population account for and what percent would you think is fair?[/QUOTE]

Life ain't fair. You don't wanna pay that much in taxes, I got a plan for you: don't be rich.

There's plenty of need for dishwashers in this world. If you hate the tax burden that coincides with being one of the "haves" in society, and you want to give up the tax burden, then you're gonna give up "having" as well.

Hope you like shopping for 10 year old Toyota Tercels.
 
"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose----- Rapture."
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Life ain't fair. You don't wanna pay that much in taxes, I got a plan for you: don't be rich.

There's plenty of need for dishwashers in this world. If you hate the tax burden that coincides with being one of the "haves" in society, and you want to give up the tax burden, then you're gonna give up "having" as well.

Hope you like shopping for 10 year old Toyota Tercels.[/QUOTE]

If it's not a question of fairness then shouldn't we just forget social programs, it should then be every man/woman/child from themselves?

I'm just curious what you think should be the proper tax burden of the "rich". Should it be 80%? 90%? 100%?
 
[quote name='dopa345']If it's not a question of fairness then shouldn't we just forget social programs, it should then be every man/woman/child from themselves?

I'm just curious what you think should be the proper tax burden of the "rich". Should it be 80%? 90%? 100%?[/QUOTE]

I agree with the first part. I think the rich having a much higher tax burden is fair. They've benefited more from society and they should give more back. Sure it's their own hard work, but they make their money off of society, got their education in society, their business benefits from international treaties, national defense, maintaining roads etc. etc. etc.

As for what the burden should be, I'm not an economist so I couldn't give it an exact number with any precision. I don't even know what the current break down of tax burden is off the top of my head to use as a starting point.

I'd just say the rich should bear the vast majority of the tax burden and leave it at that.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't think he is. He's just talking about that upper 1% or less. Obama's plan is a real kick in the nuts for these greedy rich folks that only care about making as much money as they can for themselves.

That point has nothing to do with Obama's plan being better for 95% of the country. I think he realizes that.[/quote]


Yeah, I have no problem with Obama's plan. Then again, I am not in the upper 1% or less.

However, if I had that much income, I probably wouldn't mind.
 
[quote name='level1online']"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose----- Rapture."[/quote]

:rofl:

This is a very interesting read and would explain why my parents and other republicans I've spoken to don't like obama and complain a lot about 'giving' money away :whistle2:k

I never actually saw the numbers, but it's very nice to have them laid out like this. It'd be nice to actually see it happen but I have my doubts ... about both of them.
 
Oh, I get what they're saying. They'd rather have the money and it taxed to hell than not have it at all. But like I said, they're not in that situation, so they don't really know how they'd take a change like that.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Oh, I get what they're saying. They'd rather have the money and it taxed to hell than not have it at all. But like I said, they're not in that situation, so they don't really know how they'd take a change like that.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, I'll be pretty well off soon, and I don't mind a higher tax burden. My principles come first.

As for the multimillionaires which none of us are or likely ever will be, no body needs millions of dollars a year, and the people at the absolute top making tens of millions are just ridiculous. They can bear very high tax burdens after a certain point income wise.

The amount CEOs and other top executives make these days, both in relative terms and in terms of percentage of their companies profits, compared to the past is just ridiculous.

But I'll freely admit to leaning pretty strongly socialist when it comes to the extremely wealthy and income redistribution. There should be high enough taxes on these extreme incomes to make people not want to make that much money in effort to drive CEO and other executive salaries back down to more reasonable percentages of their company's income and have more of that income going to the people actually doing the day to day work.

But I know that's not a popular idea among most Americans.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Like I said, I'll be pretty well off soon, and I don't mind a higher tax burden. My principles come first.

As for the multimillionaires which none of us are or likely ever will be, no body needs millions of dollars a year, and the people at the absolute top making tens of millions are just ridiculous. They can bear very high tax burdens after a certain point income wise.

The amount CEOs and other top executives make these days, both in relative terms and in terms of percentage of their companies profits, compared to the passed is just ridiculous.

But I'll freely admit to leaning pretty strongly socialist when it comes to the extremely wealthy and income redistribution. There should be high enough taxes on these extreme incomes to make people not want to make that much money in effort to drive CEO and other executive salaries back down to more reasonable percentages of their companies income and have more of that income going to the people actually doing the day to day work.

But I know that's not a popular idea among most Americans.[/quote]


I like your opinions and will vote for you (when you choose to run). ;)
 
I hate to be classist, but...

Show me a person making $2 million paying their full percentage of taxes and I'll show you an unicorn.

When you're taking home $2 million, how much did your underlying business spend on you that year?

$2 million a year is pushing CEO for most companies. I'm sure they don't pay for their car, hotel suites, airplane tickets, etc. Also, the salaries of your maid, butler and gardener are taken off of your pay.

The rich are a strong lot. I'm sure they'll get by.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']

But I know that's not a popular idea among most Americans.[/QUOTE]

It's not popular because essentially what you are saying is you dislike the core reasons America was created, set up, and how. So you'd like to see some people's "pursuits of happiness" stunted or even eliminated - out of unfounded trust in a corrupt government to do the right thing with what they steal from it's people.

All because you want to impose your own beliefs about what people "need" and should have on everyone. It's somewhat ironic that you consistently bash others for doing the same thing on the other side of your political views on the basis that their policies could be interfering with your choices and life.

It's wonderful for you that you are able to find a fulfilling life in just going to work and being able to feed yourself and put clothing over your head. How humble of you. But to try and tell others they have to feel the same way through the law, because of your own moral opposition to "Greed" is pretty scary. Millions of people chase after the carrot of being super rich some day, that's what they live for and what keeps them going. Who are you to tell them that they shouldn't and you'll punish them if they do?

Pretty understandable that it's not a popular idea. Most of the people that felt that way stayed in other countries and didn't come here.
 
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They are legit arguments, buddy. Like it or not. If you disagree with my assessment of Dmaul's posted beliefs, say so.

Edit: Maybe I am over-reacting? Hopefully I'm set straight by you or he if I am. But I read his post several times and that's what I got out of it: The desire to impose personal anti-greed principles on everyone.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']They are legit arguments, buddy.[/QUOTE]

They are not even arguments let alone "legit". More than likely you are merely cutting and pasting them so who really cares anyway?
 
Please. It's a loaded statement that's teeming with one-sided ideology disguised as "fact."

And those last two sentences of yours are laughably pathetic straw men. Your USA creation story would have us believe that the landed wealthy fled to the US to escape unbearable taxation under the Monarchy, instead of criminals and other unwanted undesirables fleeing noneconomic oppression under the Monarchy.

But that's giving credence to your otherwise laughable claim.

Seriously. Your points aren't valid, are childishly one-sided, and not worth responding to.

Simply put, your argument is pitiful on this surface: the very notion that the wealthy have to fear the government, for it may represent the will of the plurality of the nation, and they can do nothing about it.

Really, think about that. You're arguing that the government is the friend of the poor and destitute in society, and the enemy of the wealthy.

You were making more credible statements when you called Obama a "socialist."
 
I think you're taking what I said a bit to far to the extreme. I was just justifying why the wealthy should carry the bulk of the tax burden, along with it being unhealthy to look at how much CEOs salaries have increased in terms of percentage of companies profits and to see how much wider the gap between ceo salaries and average employees has gotten over time as well. Someone posted a good article on this a while back, but I don't have the energy to look it up right now.

I'm also not happy just working to feed myself and put clothes over my head. Despite being a grad student and living on anywhere from 15-25K a year the past 6 years and paying taxes etc. I get by pretty well and will do just fine when I'm done in terms of having a good deal of expendable income.

I never said people should have no expendable income. People should be able to have a lot of expendable income. But people with more expendable income (or the means to have it if they didn't piss it all away) should carry more of the tax burden and taxes should be very high in the extreme for the .0001% (or whatever) making 10 million a year or more etc.

Society has afforded such people the chance to make such ludicrous sums of money, they can return the favor by helping keep society afloat.

I don't expect you to agree, thrust, as I know you want as little government as possible, believe government is impossibly corrupt etc. But I don't think my views were quite as extreme as you painted them out to be. They're extreme, but not so extreme that I think people should work just to get by and give the rest to the government as even I wouldn't be happy with that.

All I was saying is the more you make the larger % of the tax burden you should pay and that it needs to be high on the extreme end to keep CEOs and other executives from having no real obstacles to keep increasing their pay disproportionately to growing profits and further widening the gap between their salaries and the working people who are making their money for them by doing all the day to day work. Trickle down economics doesn't work. The rich just get richer while the poor get poorer.

People can earn their ridiculous sums of wealth and hoarde it however greedily they like. But they shouldn't bitch about paying a lot of taxes when their incomes are getting into the millions, tens of millions and beyond.
 
How the hell does this prevent the rich from being rich? If you were super rich before this, you'll be super rich afterward.

If you actually manage to make it into that income bracket, paying taxes isn't going to suddenly make you poor. Of course "poor" is a relative term. Going from millions to hundreds of thousands would probably be poverty to some people.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Please. It's a loaded statement that's teeming with one-sided ideology disguised as "fact."

And those last two sentences of yours are laughably pathetic straw men. Your USA creation story would have us believe that the landed wealthy fled to the US to escape unbearable taxation under the Monarchy, instead of criminals and other unwanted undesirables fleeing noneconomic oppression under the Monarchy.

But that's giving credence to your otherwise laughable claim.

Seriously. Your points aren't valid, are childishly one-sided, and not worth responding to.

Simply put, your argument is pitiful on this surface: the very notion that the wealthy have to fear the government, for it may represent the will of the plurality of the nation, and they can do nothing about it.

Really, think about that. You're arguing that the government is the friend of the poor and destitute in society, and the enemy of the wealthy.

You were making more credible statements when you called Obama a "socialist."[/QUOTE]
You completely missed my point then. Those aren't the things I was getting at. See below.

[quote name='dmaul1114']I think you're taking what I said a bit to far to the extreme. I was just justifying why the wealthy should carry the bulk of the tax burden, along with it being unhealthy to look at how much CEOs salaries have increased in terms of percentage of companies profits and to see how much wider the gap between ceo salaries and average employees has gotten over time as well. Someone posted a good article on this a while back, but I don't have the energy to look it up right now.

I'm also not happy just working to feed myself and put clothes over my head. Despite being a grad student and living on anywhere from 15-25K a year the past 6 years and paying taxes etc. I get by pretty well and will do just fine when I'm done in terms of having a good deal of expendable income.

I never said people should have no expendable income. People should be able to have a lot of expendable income. But people with more expendable income (or the means to have it if they didn't piss it all away) should carry more of the tax burden and taxes should be very high in the extreme for the .0001% (or whatever) making 10 million a year or more etc.

Society has afforded such people the chance to make such ludicrous sums of money, they can return the favor by helping keep society afloat.

I don't expect you to agree, thrust, as I know you want as little government as possible, believe government is impossibly corrupt etc. But I don't think my views were quite as extreme as you painted them out to be. They're extreme, but not so extreme that I think people should work just to get by and give the rest to the government as even I wouldn't be happy with that.

All I was saying is the more you make the larger % of the tax burden you should pay and that it needs to be high on the extreme end to keep CEOs and other executives from having no real obstacles to keep increasing their pay disproportionately to growing profits and further widening the gap between their salaries and the working people who are making their money for them by doing all the day to day work. Trickle down economics doesn't work. The rich just get richer while the poor get poorer.

People can earn their ridiculous sums of wealth and hoarde it however greedily they like. But they shouldn't bitch about paying a lot of taxes when their incomes are getting into the millions, tens of millions and beyond.[/QUOTE]

Appreciate the response. Glad for the clarification.

I want to make it clear to both of you that I am not talking about protecting the rich. Nor do I believe America was set up for rich people. I believe America's primary purpose in it's creation was to protect the "Pursuit of happiness", as long as it doesn't harm others. I oppose anything that threatens that.

The already rich are going to remain rich after these taxes, or even more. I am talking about avoiding deterrents to those striving hard to make it there.

See, taxing people that make millions a year is one thing. But most people don't get to that stage over night, they are at many lower stages that would be taxed far more heavily, thus making it much harder to get higher, should that be their goal. That's my concern. I'm entirely talking about the "pursuit" rather than the ridiculously wealthy already.

Let me ask you a clarifying question: Do you support deterrents for the materially ambitious?


As a side note, as for the OP, It won't affect me either way (like everyone else here). But knowing that a very large percentage of money spent, and thus injected into the economy, is by the top 1% (too lazy to look up the source, but it's repeated many places), do you guys not think multiplying their taxes several times won't effect the economy adversely?
 
Why shouldn't the rich pay more of a percentage of taxes? There is seriously something wrong with the economy if Warren Buffet is paying a less percentage of taxes than his secretary.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
I want to make it clear to both of you that I am not talking about protecting the rich. Nor do I believe America was set up for rich people. I believe America's primary purpose in it's creation was to protect the "Pursuit of happiness", as long as it doesn't harm others. I oppose anything that threatens that.[/quote]

I can agree with that. We just disagree on what the government should do in helping the less fortunate in their pursuit of happiness.

The already rich are going to remain rich after these taxes, or even more. I am talking about avoiding deterrents to those striving hard to make it there.

See, taxing people that make millions a year is one thing. But most people don't get to that stage over night, they are at many lower stages that would be taxed far more heavily, thus making it much harder to get higher, should that be their goal. That's my concern. I'm entirely talking about the "pursuit" rather than the ridiculously wealthy already.

That's why we have a graduated income tax system. It's only fair for people better off to share greater and greater portions of the tax burden as they move up in income. But at the same time it has to be gradual enough to not deter people from working hard and moving up. At least to a point...which I'll touch in in response to your next question.

Let me ask you a clarifying question: Do you support deterrents for the materially ambitious?

Only at the extreme. The uber wealthy million plus crowd of CEOs and other executives who are making millions or tens of millions while the employees that earn the money for them are getting paid crappy and watching as the gap between their salary and their CEOs keeps growing and growing.

For the uber rich, I don't think it's a bad idea for taxes to be used as a deterrent to make them think twice about really needed that 2 million bonus or a 1 million dollar a year raise etc. I'm not saying you tax it so much no one will want to make 10s of millions of dollars. But at least put it high enough (50%, 60%, I'm not sure where) for every dollar earned after 1 million or 5 million or wherever that you give some people pause.

But knowing that a very large percentage of money spent, and thus injected into the economy, is by the top 1%, do you guys not think multiplying their taxes several times won't effect the economy adversely?

No, I think overall the economy would be better with the federal deficit reduced and work done to help the lower class and middle class in their pursuits of happiness. The money's going to be spent anyway, just a matter of where and by whom.

I think it's better for their to be more money in the hands of the lower and middle classes spending it in local shops, than the rich spending it on designer clothes, yachts, Porshe's etc. Spending in local shops is helping the middle and lower classes--providing jobs, keeping local stores in business etc. You don't get that from the rich people blowing it on luxury items, or investing it in trust funds for their kids who'll be lazy and never have to work a day in their lives.
 
Thanks for the response, D.

I forgot to present another question in relation to the OP: What do you all think about the supposed nearly doubling of capital gains tax that the GOP is claiming Obama will have? Not true? True but don't care? Elaborate.
 
I don't know enough about capital gains taxes or his plans on them to comment right now.

I have no problems with capital gains taxes on their surface. If you sell something for more than you paid for it, you made a profit and that's income which should be taxed. It's really no different than a store always selling items for less than the paid for them from the supplier.

But I don't know what the current rate is etc. to offer a comment off the top of my head about whether they're too low, have too many loopholes etc.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Thanks for the response, D.

I forgot to present another question in relation to the OP: What do you all think about the supposed nearly doubling of capital gains tax that the GOP is claiming Obama will have? Not true? True but don't care? Elaborate.[/QUOTE]

True but don't care. The market doesn't react to the changes so predictably.

Clinton dropped the top capital gains rate from 28 to 20 (boo! tax and spend liberal!) and we had the awesome, robust economy that was the 1990's.

Bush dropped them from 20 to 15 (smaller than Clinton's! Yay, low tax Republicans!) and we had...well, the economy we've had under Bush.

During both administrations, to be sure, inequality grew; capital gains tax cuts disproportionately benefitted the wealthy. It's been a long time since capital gains taxes were increased, so its effect will be interesting. One thing is certain: those ultra wealthy who derive no income (and thus no income tax) aside from what they earn via investments will be taxed at a higher rate. Good.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']

I'd just say the rich should bear the vast majority of the tax burden and leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

I'll pose the question another way then. The top 1/3 of of the population account for nearly 90% of total tax revenue. Keep in mind that the same group accounted for only about 70-75% of total adjusted gross income. Is that a fair tax burden or not? It's also because of this that of course any tax cut will benefit the wealthy since they pay such a disproportionate share of taxes to begin with.
 
The top 1% of earners paid over a third of the nation's taxes makes it sound disproportionate, but when you consider they also brought in about a fifth of the nation's income (19%) you realize they're woefully undertaxed. That means they're only paying about 1.5x the national average -- they're being taxed, on average, around 35% while the national average is 23%. That's very, very, very far from disproportionate, especially when you consider the "19%" they bring in is under-reported due to deductions and benefits being skewed for the wealthy.


Bottom line is the super rich are dreadfully undertaxed. As I mentioned in another thread, my dad pulled in 76k and was taxed over 30%. That's downright unethical when you consider there are multibillionaires getting away with much lower percentages (
 
[quote name='dopa345']I'll pose the question another way then. The top 1/3 of of the population account for nearly 90% of total tax revenue. Keep in mind that the same group accounted for only about 70-75% of total adjusted gross income. Is that a fair tax burden or not? It's also because of this that of course any tax cut will benefit the wealthy since they pay such a disproportionate share of taxes to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Yes. That's perfectly fair to me.

The tax cut part I disagree. You can have a tax cut not benefit them at all (or say not beneft the top 5%) by simply making the tax brackets so those brackets get no cut or even see increases.

Tax cuts don't have to benefit that group and not the lower and middle classes. The Bush tax cuts gave a lot of breaks to the wealthiest and really made no substantive difference to the middle or lower classes.
 
Well at least Obama wants to make those evil greedy Oil Company's cover the next round super useful tax refund checks.

Stick it to em! Make em pay! Robin Hood to the rescue!

;)
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Well at least Obama wants to make those evil greedy Oil Company's cover the next round super useful tax refund checks.

Stick it to em! Make em pay! Robin Hood to the rescue!

;)[/QUOTE]

Now we're getting somewhere! Now we're getting the empty political rhetoric that comes from people who realize that the tax burden of 95% of the population will be LIGHTER under a "tax and spend liberal," and the resultant cognitive dissonance at work!

Forget thinking critically about your ideology; attack, attack, ATTACK!!!!
 
I would prefer a flat tax with NO DEDUCTIONS.

Bought a $10 million dollar house? No, you can't deduct the interest.

Had a kid? No, you still have to pay your taxes.

Bought dinner for 300 of your closest friends and mentioned business during the meal. No, you can't consider it a business expense.

Drove to the post office to mail some games you sold on eBay? No, you can't deduct the mileage.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I would prefer a flat tax with NO DEDUCTIONS.[/QUOTE]
That's never gonna happen. There's too much money in it. Accountants still recall the moves Reagan made in that direction with a smile on their face. It went so awfully that they know no one will try again in their lifetimes.

These numbers are pre-tax as well. Anyone making six figures or better is going to have a financial adviser whose only professional purpose is shielding as much of that income as possible. When it comes down to it, if you're carrying a tax liability of $2.9mil, I guarantee you that the gross income is significantly higher.
 
Yes, but it is nice to dream.

Here's another dream for the water pipe: All taxes (state, federal, social security, medicare) should be collected on November 1st. Once normal people see how much they are being jacked, all of those social programs and military adventures that are so essential would be dismantled in a year.
 
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