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http://www.cbn.com/special/marriageamendment/index.asp

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im not religious, but im against gay marriage and actually...gays in general...but thats my opinion that i dont force on anyone...i saw this bumper sticker on the back of a car this morning and saw the website www.cbn.com on it, so i went home to see what it came up with...of course, it turns out to be a religious website, so now i wont get the bumper sticker...but i figured that id post this because its free, and im sure someone on here will be interested....theirs nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, even if its that im a jackass...
 
I think bumper stickers and political signs on your property and vehicle are dumb. It's only going to draw unnecessary attention. Like the women who got her house pelted with paintballs for posting a political sign on her lawn. Actually, most of the paintballs hit the sign.

Bottom line, you're not going to change anyone's opinions about something with a stupid bumper sticker.
 
Why not get a bumper sticker that says "If you are not exactly like me and prctive religion in the exact same way I do and believe EXACTLY the same things I do than Ihate you and hope you die a painful death and burn in the seventh level of hell"

I would make those hate bumper stickers oobsolete because it covers the full spectrum.
 
some of you make good points....and im not sure if they're directed towards me or that site...but to be clear, i wouldnt put this bumper sticker on my car with or without the religious website on it either way....id hate to have my car scratched up by some homo-lover who cant control his/her reactions to someone elses beliefs...

as for quackzillas response with the, "hating everyone who doesnt believe exactly the same way you do" thing....that religion may or may not be that way, but im definitely not that way....i dont hate anyone for not having my viewpoints...every body can find something to strongly disagree with everyone about, no matter how close you think you are with someone....as i said, i dont hate anyone for thier beliefs, or for who they are, i just think some ppl are incredibly stupid compared to some other ppl...
 
I'm against people who are against other people who's lifestyle has no involvelment of the person that's against them.


Yes, I am against myself...... in that pleasurable way ATM.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Why not get a bumper sticker that says "If you are not exactly like me and prctive religion in the exact same way I do and believe EXACTLY the same things I do than Ihate you and hope you die a painful death and burn in the seventh level of hell"

I would make those hate bumper stickers oobsolete because it covers the full spectrum.[/quote]

Can I ask why people who oppose gay marriage must also want mass executions of gays and then have their bodies burned so there is no evidence of them?

Is it possible that some of don't believe being gay should be considered a special classification such as race or gender and as such no special benefits should accrue?

Yet another internet discussion boils down to absurd extremes.

CTL
 
I'm sorry I forgot conservatives arent biased at all. Conservatives tried to pull the same crap with seperate but equal laws. Seperate does not mean equal, people should be able to live their lives without the government deciding if their marriage is legal
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I'm sorry I forgot conservatives arent biased at all. Conservatives tried to pull the same crap with seperate but equal laws. Seperate does not mean equal, people should be able to live their lives without the government deciding if their marriage is legal[/quote]

I am sorry. It is very difficult to take anyone seriously on this issue when they make claims like yours and don't have the first clue as to how the Equal Protection Clause is applied other than to spout meaningless platitudes that taken to their logical conclusion would allow me to have the federal government recognize my relationship with a house plant.

If you are going to make a legal argument, please do so.

Alternatively cease making legal claims.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Ikohn4ever']I'm sorry I forgot conservatives arent biased at all. Conservatives tried to pull the same crap with seperate but equal laws. Seperate does not mean equal, people should be able to live their lives without the government deciding if their marriage is legal[/quote]

I am sorry. It is very difficult to take anyone seriously on this issue when they make claims like yours and don't have the first clue as to how the Equal Protection Clause is applied other than to spout meaningless platitudes that taken to their logical conclusion would allow me to have the federal government recognize my relationship with a house plant.

If you are going to make a legal argument, please do so.

Alternatively cease making legal claims.

CTL[/quote]

u are right the federal government has not much to do with the 14th ammendment, though the states are discriminating against gays, by the fact that the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. The equal protection clause has been violated when a state grants a particular class of individuals the right to engage in activity yet denies other individuals the same right. But with the 5th ammendment, the federal government is depriving Gays and Lesbians right to liberty, taking away their freedom to get married. So there ya go
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
Can I ask why people who oppose gay marriage must also want mass executions of gays and then have their bodies burned so there is no evidence of them?

Is it possible that some of don't believe being gay should be considered a special classification such as race or gender and as such no special benefits should accrue?
CTL[/quote]

Agree with your statements. However, if gays should not be given any special benefits (they shouldn't), they should also not be given any special restrictions (e.g not being allowed to marry).

I just don't understand why someone would be against gay marriage? Where is the harm? Espcially since straight marriages in this country are in the shitter right now (too many divorces!).
 
If you're an evil person, you may want to prevent anybody else from doing things you don't like doing yourself.

Like if you never drink you may want to make alcohol illegal, that kind of stuff.

If you're pro gay marriage, though, you may want to order the sticker just to cost these guys a little bit of money - so thanks to the OP for posting this deal.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Ikohn4ever']I'm sorry I forgot conservatives arent biased at all. Conservatives tried to pull the same crap with seperate but equal laws. Seperate does not mean equal, people should be able to live their lives without the government deciding if their marriage is legal[/quote]

I am sorry. It is very difficult to take anyone seriously on this issue when they make claims like yours and don't have the first clue as to how the Equal Protection Clause is applied other than to spout meaningless platitudes that taken to their logical conclusion would allow me to have the federal government recognize my relationship with a house plant.

If you are going to make a legal argument, please do so.

Alternatively cease making legal claims.

CTL[/quote]

u are right the federal government has not much to do with the 14th ammendment, though the states are discriminating against gays, by the fact that the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. The equal protection clause has been violated when a state grants a particular class of individuals the right to engage in activity yet denies other individuals the same right. But with the 5th ammendment, the federal government is depriving Gays and Lesbians right to liberty, taking away their freedom to get married. So there ya go[/quote]

Not quite. The USSC has adopted a three tier approach to testing whether a state has a legitimate interest in making a distinction based on a classification such as race, gender or sexual orientation, ie immutable characteristics. Different chracteristics are more protected than others such as race or religion. Sexual orientation is at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a state having to prove an interest before its actions are illegal.

I see no reason to elevate sexual orientation to the importance and protecion of race or religion.

As for your final comment about the 5th Amend. Marriage is left up to the states, the Fed has virtually no say over that.

As for Backlash's comment about special restrictions: two heterosexual men can't marry, two hereosexual women can't marry. In that respect gays are being treated just as heterosexuals.

Why am I opposed to gay marriage? For the legal reasons above, for the reason that I believe once you allow gays to marru you create a situation where you have no legally definable position of marriage and years from now polygamy and incest will be legalized. (I understand there is a consent issue with incest, but 20 years ago this very discussion wouldn't have been thought possible).

I also oppose the extension of entitlements to anyone other than married heterosexual couples.

CTL
 
[quote name='Backlash']I just don't understand why someone would be against gay marriage? Where is the harm? Espcially since straight marriages in this country are in the shitter right now (too many divorces!).[/quote]

Because biblegod ( http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/biblegod.html ) said to murder all the gays. After all, they don't make babies and don't increase the size of the tribe. So by putting a death sentence on teh gay, it was hoped that at least some people would be scared "straight".

Of course the reason is long since forgotten.
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='Backlash']I just don't understand why someone would be against gay marriage? Where is the harm? Espcially since straight marriages in this country are in the shitter right now (too many divorces!).[/quote]

Because biblegod ( http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/biblegod.html ) said to murder all the gays. After all, they don't make babies and don't increase the size of the tribe. So by putting a death sentence on teh gay, it was hoped that at least some people would be scared "straight".

Of course the reason is long since forgotten.[/quote]

Based on posts like this I see how you obtained an over 1,000 post count.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
As for Backlash's comment about special restrictions: two heterosexual men can't marry, two hereosexual women can't marry. In that respect gays are being treated just as heterosexuals.[/quote]

That's like saying "a white man and a black woman who don't want to marry can't, a white man and a black woman who want to marry can't. In that respect people in interracial relationships are being treated just like people in same-race relationships". It does not make any sense.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
As for Backlash's comment about special restrictions: two heterosexual men can't marry, two hereosexual women can't marry. In that respect gays are being treated just as heterosexuals.
[/quote]

I think that's clearly discrimination - by definition, gays are attracted to their own sex, while heterosexuals are not.

[quote name='CTLesq']
Why am I opposed to gay marriage? For the legal reasons above, for the reason that I believe once you allow gays to marru you create a situation where you have no legally definable position of marriage and years from now polygamy and incest will be legalized.
[/quote]

That's easily taken care of by defining marriage as between only two humans, and also outlawing blood relatives, as many states do.

[quote name='CTLesq']
I also oppose the extension of entitlements to anyone other than married heterosexual couples.
[/quote]

Why?
 
I think your point about inter-racial marriages is a bit muddled, but it is a good idea to bring them up. Years ago people couldn't imagine inter-racial marriages, and many consrvatives still hate them. Have they had any ill-effects on the country?
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='CTLesq']
As for Backlash's comment about special restrictions: two heterosexual men can't marry, two hereosexual women can't marry. In that respect gays are being treated just as heterosexuals.[/quote]

That's like saying "a white man and a black woman who don't want to marry can't, a white man and a black woman who want to marry can't. In that respect people in interracial relationships are being treated just like people in same-race relationships". It does not make any sense.[/quote]

No its not even close. Please continue to cite passages from the Bible as the reason many oppose gay marriage and ignore the legitimate reasons I have put forth.

The above comment is an example of why I would like to know the age and education of posters.

CTL
 
[quote name='Backlash'][quote name='CTLesq']
As for Backlash's comment about special restrictions: two heterosexual men can't marry, two hereosexual women can't marry. In that respect gays are being treated just as heterosexuals.
[/quote]

I think that's clearly discrimination - by definition, gays are attracted to their own sex, while heterosexuals are not.

[quote name='CTLesq']
Why am I opposed to gay marriage? For the legal reasons above, for the reason that I believe once you allow gays to marru you create a situation where you have no legally definable position of marriage and years from now polygamy and incest will be legalized.
[/quote]

That's easily taken care of by defining marriage as between only two humans, and also outlawing blood relatives, as many states do.

[quote name='CTLesq']
I also oppose the extension of entitlements to anyone other than married heterosexual couples.
[/quote]

Why?[/quote]
1. If you discriminate against everyone then its not discrimination, because you treat everyone the same.

2. So you are now creating laws on an ad hoc basis, state by state?
That will work for about 15 minutes.

3. Because have you looked at where expenses are going? No where but up. And at what point are we going to then just extend benefits to people just living together for convience?

NYC is being decimate by pension and healthcare costs for city employees that are retiring, I am not eager to add people to welfare line of lifetime entitlement.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq']Based on posts like this I see how you obtained an over 1,000 post count.[/quote]

You are a complete idiot.

First, instead of my views, you're attacking my post count? You might as well say "you're from San Diego, so your views don't count".

Second, I've been here much longer. You're at 2.39 posts a day, I'm at 2.94 . Are you seriously claiming that just because I post 23% more, what I have to say is diluted by that much? In that case just ignore me and everybody with more than, oh, is 2.75 posts a day a good threshold for you?
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='CTLesq']Based on posts like this I see how you obtained an over 1,000 post count.[/quote]

You are a complete idiot.

First, instead of my views, you're attacking my post count? You might as well say "you're from San Diego, so your views don't count".

Second, I've been here much longer. You're at 2.39 posts a day, I'm at 2.94 . Are you seriously claiming that just because I post 23% more, what I have to say is diluted by that much? In that case just ignore me and everybody with more than, oh, is 2.75 posts a day a good threshold for you?[/quote]

No I am suggesting that when you post religious drivel and use it as an explanation as to why people are opposed to gay marriage when people like myself have not touched on religion as a reason to oppose gay marriage you certainly do not add any credibility to yourself as a poster. Then when you consider how little thought went into your post it is very easy to see how you could have accumulated so many posts.

CTL
 
Religion is one of the biggest, if not _the_ biggest, sources of homophobia. Check the homophobia rates in, say, catholics and atheists. Look into the differences between secular and religious societies. Read the bible, which commands you to stone homosexuals. It may not be your reason (at least that you're aware of - it probably has a lot to do with it at least indirectly) but it's the biggest reason most people have. Eliminate religion and you'll find there's practically no homophobia any more.
 
I don't have a problem with people being against gay marriage. I'm personally against it. But I'm not against 'gays', and I don't wish them damned to hellfire or torture for being gay.
But I don't want there to be a Federal Amendment about it either.
And yes, it's a bit of a slippery slope--if gay marriage is okay, why not polygamy? If kids are getting condoms and taught how to use them in 6th grade, and getting pregnant at that age, why can't 14 year olds get married? Or a 40 year old marry a 14 year old? Or, hell, Joe marrying his cousin or second cousin Jane? I have seen research saying there is little to no increase in the risk of birth defects with most second cousins' genes.
And, not to be apocalyptic, but let's bring it to the extreme, which is a good test for many laws/thoughts. What if every marriage was between gays? There are two results: one, the race would die out because two people of the same sex cannot have children; or two, genetic modification/babybreeding.

And yes, it's 'funny', someone who is interested in a 'Marriage--Man and Woman' sticker is a vile robot of religion, wanting gays to die and suffer painfully, but somehow the person with the sticker is the intolerant one who stereotypes...
 
[quote name='eldad9']Religion is one of the biggest, if not _the_ biggest, sources of homophobia. Check the homophobia rates in, say, catholics and atheists. Look into the differences between secular and religious societies. Read the bible, which commands you to stone homosexuals. It may not be your reason (at least that you're aware of - it probably has a lot to do with it at least indirectly) but it's the biggest reason most people have. Eliminate religion and you'll find there's practically no homophobia any more.[/quote]

So the only people who are opposed to gay marriage are homophobic?

Fear of the same? No, gays are differnent.

But nice tolerance you show for those of us who aren't homophobic.

How soon to 2000 posts?

CTL
 
Oh, two days. I am so obsessed with my post count that I already mailed cheapyD $20 to bump it up.

That is to say, I never feel the need to look at my post count and would not be upset if it got reset or if the site stopped displaying them altogether. You care more about my post count than I do.
 
[quote name='eldad9']Oh, two days. I am so obsessed with my post count that I already mailed cheapyD $20 to bump it up.

That is to say, I never feel the need to look at my post count and would not be upset if it got reset or if the site stopped displaying them altogether. You care more about my post count than I do.[/quote]

No I care that I have to waste my time correcting incorrect and thoughtless posts that include but are not limited to: distinctions made on sexual orientation are equvilant to distinctions made on sexual orientation, or if you oppose gay marriage you are homophobic, or the Bible says...even though no one has cited the Bible in opposition to gay marriage.

Alterntively some of the foolish liberals on this board might actually believe you are correct.

By the way you need to another religious refernece as to why gays or evil, I think this is your third post without mentioning thats why I oppose gay marriage, despite the fact I haven't brought religion up as a reason.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq']no one has cited the Bible in opposition to gay marriage.
[/quote]

You mean no one on this thread? I know the president of united states, although not citing the bible directly, cited religious reasons for opposing it.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Just stop posting CTLesq, you are being a jackass and using very lame tactics to try and derail the topic.[/quote]

Like the USSC three tiered approach? The Equal Protection Clause?

Or maybe I will cite to the Bible (oh, that wasn't me).

Maybe I will label everyone opposed to gay marriage as a bigot (oh, that wasn't me).

I have addressed the topic. Apparently others haven't.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq']
1. If you discriminate against everyone then its not discrimination, because you treat everyone the same.

2. So you are now creating laws on an ad hoc basis, state by state?
That will work for about 15 minutes.

3. Because have you looked at where expenses are going? No where but up. And at what point are we going to then just extend benefits to people just living together for convience?

NYC is being decimate by pension and healthcare costs for city employees that are retiring, I am not eager to add people to welfare line of lifetime entitlement.
[/quote]

1. No need to debate this further. It may not be legal discrimination in the letter of the law, but if you think it's equal and fair, I won't convince you otherwise.

2. How does it work now? State by state right? Anyway, I'm not opposed to a Consitutional amendment legalizing gay marriage.

3. As I said, the sancitity of marriage is already gone, not because of gays. Anyone can (and does) get quickie cheap weddings in Nevada (and South Carolina?). Plenty of people are already in "convenience marriages" or just got married b/c someone got pregnant (won't happen with gays). We shouldn't deny couples who actually deserve whatever benefits marriage may convey (there really aren't that many) .
 
Allowing negros and white broads to marry would collapse the institution of marriage, also. What a coincidence that both the Republicans and the Ku Klux Klan are both pushing similar agendas.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']What a coincidence that both the Republicans and the Ku Klux Klan are both pushing similar agendas.[/quote]

That was as dumb as PAD's comparison between the communist criticism of Bush and Democrats.
 
You must admit, protecting the intitution of marriage from black people and gay people seems like two very similar, and hateful, agendas.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']You must admit, protecting the intitution of marriage from black people and gay people seems like two very similar, and hateful, agendas.[/quote]

And I suppose if I didn't have an intellingent comment to offer on this issue I would demonize my opponents as well.
 
My boyfriend and I saw this on the back of a van when we were going to Applebees. Great fun, we were at a red light and holding hands and the guy driving gave us this look so we started making out. The light turned green and I flicked him off, and he went speeding away as fast as he could. I mean he was going like 70 in a 35, until he hit the next light, hahahaha.
 
Just remember some of these people can turn violent, and carry knives and/or guns. The guy certainly deserves it, but we really don't want to hear about you on the news.

OK, how about this? the "marriage: one man + one woman" but have a "batman" sticker covering the last two letters of the first one?
 
[quote name='eldad9']Just remember some of these people can turn violent, and carry knives and/or guns. The guy certainly deserves it, but we really don't want to hear about you on the news.

OK, how about this? the "marriage: one man + one woman" but have a "batman" sticker covering the last two letters of the first one?[/quote]


I was going to say I doubt that would happen, but then I saw this...

BATON ROUGE, La. - Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart apologized Wednesday for saying in a televised worship service that he would kill any gay man who looked at him romantically.



A complaint was filed with a Canadian broadcasting group, and Swaggart said his Baton Rouge-based Jimmy Swaggart Ministries has received complaints from gay groups over the remarks made on the Sept. 12 telecast.


In the broadcast, Swaggart was discussing his opposition to gay marriage when he said "I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry."


"And I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died," Swaggart said to laughter and applause from the congregation.


On Wednesday, Swaggart said he has jokingly used the expression "killing someone and telling God he died" thousands of times, about all sorts of people. He said the expression is figurative and not meant to harm.


"It's a humorous statement that doesn't mean anything. You can't lie to God — it's ridiculous," Swaggart told The Associated Press. "If it's an insult, I certainly didn't think it was, but if they are offended, then I certainly offer an apology."


Audio recordings of the Sept. 12 statements have circulated on gay-themed Web sites.


One complaint was sent to the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council, a self-regulating industry group that enforces broadcast standards, after a Toronto television station broadcast the service, said Ann Mainville-Neeson, the group's executive director.


Cheryl Jacques, head of the Washington, D.C.-based Human Rights Campaign, which represents homosexuals, bisexuals and transgendered people, said Swaggart should preach equality for all Americans.


"Apologies don't discourage violence — action does. We hope that he takes action," Jacques said. "His language only encourages an environment where hate crimes occur."


Swaggart was a popular television evangelist during the 1980s until a 1987 sex scandal involving a prostitute that he met in a seedy New Orleans motel. Swaggart never confessed to anything more than an unspecified sin. A few years later, he was stopped by police while driving in California with a suspected prostitute in his car.


I love the part about the prostitute, not even a girl wants to date him, nevermind look at him "romantically", so I really doubt that a guy would.

But this is what bigots... I mean Republicains, must mean when they say "family values". :roll:
 
[quote name='David85']

But this is what bigots... I mean Republicains, must mean when they say "family values". :roll:[/quote]

Way to be bigoted, hypocrite.
Of course Jimmy Swaggart speaks for all Republicans, or all religious people
:roll:
 
Other great marriage stickers you might want to consider:

"Marriage = Man + Female chattel" (circa 1700)
"Marriage = White man + White woman" (circa 1800)
"Marriage = Man + Woman of same race" (circa 1960)

The "slippery slope" argument is a common one, basically claiming that gay marriage is the beginning of a downward spiral towards incest, marrying children, marrying animals, the destruction of morality, the downfall of society, and ultimately, I assume, the total destruction of the universe. It goes without saying that the difference between a man marrying another man and a man marrying a dog or a 5-year-old is that neither the 5-year-old nor the dog can consent. The "slippery slope" logic is ridiculous and unfounded.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there is not one single way, spare idiotic complaints like "It's disgusting" or "It goes against my religion," that gay marriage will affect any one of us personally. I issue a challange to anyone here to name one way that gay marriage would affect you personally. Does it violate your privacy? Does it violate your fundamental rights? Does it, in some inconcievable way, physically harm you?

As for the "states' rights" argument, well, I think we're all familiar with what happened the last time the individual right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" took a back seat to states' rights to discriminate and undermine the rights of individuals as they please...

oslavey004p1.jpg


To date, every argument against gay marriage I've heard is pitiful, although, granted, sometimes humorous. It comes down to one simple principle: when two people love each other, they should be allowed the right to marry, plain and simple.

Let's play a little game. Read the following arguments from proponents of "traditional marriage" - some are in reference to the effects of a change in the tradition of marriage on children, others are general arguments:

1 -- "... children are faced with problems that tend to produce reactions of guilt, insecurity, anxiety, and emotional instability."
2 -- "Since [the child] cannot identify with both parents, the child feels resentment towards one or both parents."
3 -- "[Children] are healthier both emotionally and physically, even thirty years later, than those not so blessed by traditional parents."
4 -- "Identity is a lifelong process. The parents must provide secure role models with which the child can identify. More importantly, is the fact the parents must take these role model identities and unite them into a common perception to provide a consistent reinforcement of the child's values as a person in terms of sameness and continuity over time."
5 -- "The purity of public morals ... require that they should be kept distinct and separate... that connections and alliances so unnatural that God and nature seem to forbid them, should be prohibited by positive law, and be subject to no evasion."
6 -- "Marriage is a sacrament designed by God that serves as a metaphor for the relationship between Christ and His church. Tampering with His plan for the family is immoral and wrong."

Now, can you guess which of those arguments were made in opposition to interracial marriage and which were made in opposition to gay marriage?
If not, here's a quick reference:
Interracial marriage: 1, 2, 4, 5
Gay marriage: 3, 6

Wow, they're almost completely indistinguishable, aren't they? Modern bigots don't even have the basic intelligence to come up with their own arguments, they're just using the ones their grandparents used against interracial marriage! The very same arguments were proven completely invalid once, and they will again. Just watch.
 
[quote name='SwiftyLeZar']

Wow, they're almost completely indistinguishable, aren't they? Modern bigots don't even have the basic intelligence to come up with their own arguments, they're just using the ones their grandparents used against interracial marriage! The very same arguments were proven completely invalid once, and they will again. Just watch.[/quote]

Wow your entire post boils down to calling people who oppose gay marriage bigots....how tolerant you are.

I also note that you did not address why homosexuality should be raised from the lease protected tier of immutable characteristics to the most protected of classes such as race or religion.

Which is the issue - you can't. You charged that people who oppose gay marriage do so for bigoted reasons and in the process insulted everyone.

Further the comparison of gay marriage to interracial marriage is while tempting, false. There is a material difference between one's race and one's sexual orientation. As such race is far more protected than sexual orientaiton.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'] There is a material difference between one's race and one's sexual orientation. As such race is far more protected than sexual orientaiton.[/quote]

Would you care to grace us with what difference is?

I'm really hoping that you are going to go against all scientific data and say people aren't born gay and they can change.
 
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