Stolen Honor - A new documentary

So...you believe the Vietnam war was JUSTIFIED, that the American people should NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO PROTEST, and that we should have 'stayed the course' even though it would have meant the deaths of tens of millions of American soldiers?

You support the Vietnam war?

You support the people who made this documentary, and who were coincidentally the same people that supported an unjust war many years ago and wated protesters, like the boy in the picture below, thrown in jail?

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Do you know how many more people would be dead today if John Kerry and other veterans had not risen up to challenge the president and the people directing the Vietnam war?

Would you have gone to Vietnam to fight that war? To witness the cruelest crimes against humanity since the holocost? To see villages full of children burn under napalm?
 
I believe Kerry could have taken a more private route with his charges instead of usurping the chain of command for his own political gain.

Free speech is what our society is built on, but be responsible when and how you use it. You can use free speech to yell "FIRE!" in a movie theater when there is no fire, but that would be irresponsible as people may get hurt as a result of your action. The same applies to Kerry. As for the boy in the picture, do you think he even really understood what he was "protesting?" :lol:


General Vo Nguyen Giap, chief North Vietnamese military leader during the Vietnam war, stated in his memoirs:
"if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S."

That right there says a lot.
 
[quote name='Ruined']I believe Kerry could have taken a more private route with his charges instead of usurping the chain of command for his own political gain.

Free speech is what our society is built on, but be responsible when and how you use it.[/quote]

The chain of command?

Soldiers were NOT ALLOWED to use the chain of command to protest war crimes or the war itself.

You are either disillusioned or a filthy liar, and for your sake I hope it is the former.


You talk about responsibility with the freedom of speech, yet you support the corporation that made this 'documentary' designed to lie and distort the 'facts' in an attempt to scare voters right before the election.

You are a hypocrit.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']The chain of command?

Soldiers were NOT ALLOWED to use the chain of command to protest war crimes or the war itself.

You are either disillusioned or a filthy liar, and for your sake I hope it is the former.[/quote]

Sure they could, soldiers are very able to use the chain of command to report things they believe are illegal or not in line with orders.

If Kerry saw so many atrocities, why is there no record of him reporting any of them through proper channels prior to his senate testimony? I thought the clips from "Stolen Honor" showing soldiers brainstorming fake war crimes to report was also very interesting.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Sure they could, soldiers are very able to use the chain of command to report things they believe are illegal or not in line with orders. If Kerry saw so many atrocities, why is there no record of him reporting any of them?[/quote]

I don't think you understand.

They soldiers were not disobeying orders by breaking the geneva convention, their commanding officers were ordering them to commit the attrocities.

And then there were the hate groups that actually killed their COs so that they could murder civilians uncontested. It was called "fragging", the soldiers would roll a fragmentation grenade into their COs tent and blow him up.

In the former situation, you could be court marshaled, beaten, or even killed.

In the latter situation there would be nobody to report to, and if you deserted you would be killed.

Vietnam was not drawn in black and white. You should try and actually learn some history before you get into an argument.
 
This looks like a great movie...for me to poop on.

I'm waiting for "Stolen Election: The George Bush Story" or "Vietnam - I'll Pass: The George Bush Story"
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']I don't think you understand.[/quote]

lol here comes the namecalling

They soldiers were not disobeying orders by breaking the geneva convention, their commanding officers were ordering them to commit the attrocities.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that happened a few times... Was Kerry's stark and sweeping generalizations the real truth? I doubt it.

And then there were the hate groups that actually killed their COs so that they could murder civilians uncontested. It was called "fragging", the soldiers would roll a fragmentation grenade into their COs tent and blow him up.

In the former situation, you could be court marshaled, beaten, or even killed.

In the latter situation there would be nobody to report to, and if you deserted you would be killed.
Click to expand...

Again, war is not perfect, terrible things happen sometimes. It doesn't mean all soldiers are bad, or that atrocities happened on a daily basis as Kerry claimed.

Vietnam was not drawn in black and white.
Click to expand...

Too bad Kerry painted his fellow soldiers in a black and white picture of being war criminals that commited crimes on a daily basis.

You should try and actually learn some history before you get into an argument.
Click to expand...

And here comes the holier-than-thou implications again.

Maybe you should try listening to hundreds of people who actually served in vietnam in swiftboats with kerry who are now joined by Vietnam War POWs speaking out against Kerry before you start with implications. 250+ swiftboat veterans joined by a group of hundreds of POWs who swore to their testimony and are speaking out against Kerry's actions... Or does their voice not count?
 
[quote name='Ruined']Free speech is what our society is built on, but be responsible when and how you use it. You can use free speech to yell "FIRE!" in a movie theater when there is no fire, but that would be irresponsible as people may get hurt as a result of your action.[/quote]

But when the building is burning down, the man who shouts "FIRE!" is a hero. John Kerry and his fellow veterans who spoke out against the war when they came home saved lives by helping turn public opinion against the war.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']John Kerry and his fellow veterans who spoke out against the war when they came home saved lives by helping turn public opinion against the war.[/quote]

Did he? Many would argue that his actions emboldened the enemy, caused more pain and suffering for US troops both during wartime and long after they arrived home, and contributed to our losing of the war. As stated above:

General Vo Nguyen Giap, chief North Vietnamese military leader during the Vietnam war, stated in his memoirs:
"if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S."

If those organizations did not exist or were more responsible in their rhetoric and actions, perhaps the war would have ended ealier, with North Vietnamese surrender & victory in the US column, instead of being dragged out longer with more troops being killed and tortured with Kerry's testimony hanging over their heads in the prison camp torture chambers. If the enemy detects division in their opponent, it only strengthens their resolve to fight harder.
 
[quote name='Ruined'][quote name='MrBadExample']John Kerry and his fellow veterans who spoke out against the war when they came home saved lives by helping turn public opinion against the war.[/quote]

Did he? Many would argue that his actions emboldened the enemy, caused more pain and suffering for US troops both during wartime and long after they arrived home, and contributed to our losing of the war. As stated above:

General Vo Nguyen Giap, chief North Vietnamese military leader during the Vietnam war, stated in his memoirs:
"if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S."

If those organizations did not exist or were more responsible in their rhetoric and actions, perhaps the war would have ended ealier, with North Vietnamese surrender & victory in the US column, instead of being dragged out longer with more troops being killed and tortured with Kerry's testimony hanging over their heads in the prison camp torture chambers. If the enemy detects division in their opponent, it only strengthens their resolve to fight harder.[/quote]

So, despite it going against everything free speech and democracy stand for, we should never question our government during a war because it will embolden the enemy?
 
The world premire of Stolen Honor was supposed to be tonight at the Baderwood Theater outside of Philadelphia. Luckily, the owner of the theater realized what the film was (he didn't know it was a political film when he agreed to rent the theater) and from what I hear, it was cancelled. At my school today, there were actually papers all over about going to a protest outside of the theater (about 15 minutes away)
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']The world premire of Stolen Honor was supposed to be tonight at the Baderwood Theater outside of Philadelphia. Luckily, the owner of the theater realized what the film was (he didn't know it was a political film when he agreed to rent the theater) and from what I hear, it was cancelled. At my school today, there were actually papers all over about going to a protest outside of the theater (about 15 minutes away)[/quote]

It's funny that people's right to freedom of speech and expression are technically being squashed and you support it. If this theater refused all polticital films where was his outrage with Moore's film or Going Upriver? Were they showing there? Chances are they did at some point.

I do not think that this film should be shown on manadatory broadcast TV like Sinclair wants to do. Thats breds other concerns and questions. However, if someone wants to rent out movie theater time to show their film I say why not let them, they have the right to do so.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']It's funny that people's right to freedom of speech and expression are technically being squashed and you support it. If this theater refused all polticital films where was his outrage with Moore's film or Going Upriver? Were they showing there? Chances are they did at some point.

I do not think that this film should be shown on manadatory broadcast TV like Sinclair wants to do. Thats breds other concerns and questions. However, if someone wants to rent out movie theater time to show their film I say why not let them, they have the right to do so.[/quote]

You're right. People have the right to rent the theater, but the theater also has the right to refuse to show any movie including Fahrenheit 9/11 and many did. People also have the right to protest for and against showing the movie.
 
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