need hdtv lcd flat panel help

Guy Mockingdale

CAGiversary!
I'm not really looking for a deal as much as some help. If anyone could link me some good resources or tell me what I should be looking for I would GREATLY appreciate it.

I would like to buy quickly like in a store, today or tomorrow...

I play a 360, not huge into dvds but I do watch them now and then.

Looking for 37" and really would not like to pay more than $1300 if that possible, less would be preferred. I dont mind spending more if I know its going to last a while.

Thank you very much if you are able to help me. There are just so many televisions and so much to know, even finding a good resource seems tough.
 
What exactly do you want to know? We can be your resource. If you're willing to pay $1300 or more, why not just go to a home theatre store and buy the nicest looking 37" TV you can find?

Some things I'd think about...
*If you must buy a warranty, get at least a 3 or 4 year, LCDs rarely have issues within the first few years (consumer reports)
*Dynamic contrast ratios are NOT contrast ratios. Samsungs 10,000: 1 isn't better than someone elses 1,000:1
*HDMI is the future, get at least 2 ports unless you're ONLY using XBox ever...
*Feel free to try and bargain with the salesmen. In store prices are usually kinda steep and places like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. will almost always give ya at least a 10% discount, or match their online price.
 
Well, I don't mind paying more but i want to make sure i get my moneys worth for sure. Just seeing what tv the best to my eye, i know it might not be the best deal.

thanks for the info that you gave because already i feel way more informed i was just completely clueless about tvs and options.

i just went to CC, BB and Costco ...and looking around I noticed the Toshiba Regza 37in but i noticed there doesnt seem to be any 1080p below 40" is that like...bad should i make sure to get 1080p? I saw a sony bravia 40" 1080p for $1700.00 and i have to say it was gorgoues...but is that a total rip off... do i have is the manufactors warranty of 1 year crap for this problem?

ohh so confused...
 
[quote name='freshzen']What exactly do you want to know? We can be your resource. If you're willing to pay $1300 or more, why not just go to a home theatre store and buy the nicest looking 37" TV you can find?

yes go to a shoe see what you like write down five of the best tv's in your range that you like and check out reviews on cnet, talk to Cagers, and make a decisions

in your case you definitely want 720p, built in speakers, hdmi hook ups and a user friendly menu
 
[quote name='kelpie182']you won't notice the difference of 720p vs 1080p in sets least then 50in[/QUOTE]
so your saying theoretically i can just buy a tv that supports 1080p, but shows only 720p, and i'd be fine.
 
[quote name='blackbird3216']so your saying theoretically i can just buy a tv that supports 1080p, but shows only 720p, and i'd be fine.[/QUOTE]

no you can buy a 40 in tv with 1080p but the resolution difference between that set being in 720p is not really noticeable the difference is really seen when you have a bigger screen tv 50in and up. So, why spend the extra money for a feature that really is of no value to you when 720p for your size and MEANS is just as good?
 
if your primary use is for playing your 360, most of the time 720p is going to be all you will need. Most of the games will be meant to be played at 720p, maybe a handful will support 1080p.

Save some money, do you have a surround sound setup? Put the rest of the money to round out your experience.
 
Well, assuming that you are going to buy this HDTV sometime soon, here's some advice:

1080p is nice to have, but like it was previously said, won't see much difference in anything that's really under 47" (if I remember correctly) vs. 720p. Even if you were to consider 1080p, many tv's say they can do 1080p but they tend to upscale it (meaning, they aren't really "full" 1080p, which is 1920 x 1200 pixils, I know this cause my new macbook pro has full 1080p).

Also, these screens/charts is a MUST. Don't leave or even buy a tv without consulting these charts. I always use this and even use it to help customers who buy a new HDTV (work in electronics at a local store). It also will help you understanding my previous statement about 720p vs. 1080p and why you can't tell the difference in small tv's.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.png
AND
http://s3.amazonaws.com/carltonbale.com/distance_chart.png


Great forum for HDTV talk and discussion is found here: http://avsforum.com/

Top Brands (imo):
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Phillips
Westinghouse
Vizio (great TVs but not the best nor the high-end tv sets, good for their very cheap and affordable prices).

Samsungs have far the best picture quality that I've seen next to sharp (Aquos are the nicest). Their contrast ratios are high which is nice to have in games and their gaming specific functions are good (especially the refresh rates). Samsung and Sharp are expensive but will last a good, long time and have alot of inputs for items.

Refresh rate in TVs are a must for gaming. The lower the refresh rate is then the less likely you are to get lag (from your end, sometimes you can't help because of "server lag"). You should look for TVs that are under 8ms in refresh rate.

Contrast ratio is a sticky topic, imo. Some believe that the higher the contrast ratio is then the better the TV must be. Granted it is nice but some manufacturers overrate their products. Contrast ratio is the ratio of white to black in color. Say a Samsung contrast ratio says 3000:1, it is saying that white is 3000 times brighter than black. It also depends on the lighting in your room in which this will make a difference. Kinda like pc users who choose glossy vs. matte in screens. All depends on what you want to get from your TV and if you can deal with black not being as dark as say a $1500 tv.

Another thing to note is that there is a HUGE difference between the dynamic contrast ratio and the true contrast ratio. Samsung loves to say that their TVs are 3000:1 or 5000:1 or even 8000:1 contrast ratio but in reality thats not even close to the true contrast ratio. I want to say that they are about half of the dynamic contrast ratio but its actually a little above (meaning, its about 2000:1, 3500:1, 6500:1 respectfully). Don't quote me on this but there is a difference though in quoted and true contrast ratio. Don't be fooled.

That's all that I can think of at the moment. Hopefully this helps you. Good luck! I hope you find a great TV.

*Edited to say that it is not quoted contrast ratio, it's referred to as dynamic contrast ratio*
 
Also, lets specifiy. Lag and Ghosting are two different entitities. I'm thinking that the refresh rate has more to do with stopping ghosting than HDTV lag, which was more to do with the quality of the scalers in the TV. I think i'm right....
 
The best brands are Samsung Sony & Sharp, ignore chex20's mention of Phillips altogether--the price vs. quality doesn't compare...

Also Westinghouse & Vizio are good but more budget TVs, nothing near as stunning as what you'd get from Sharp Aquos or Sony Bravia

Also, getting full 1920 x 1080 (1080p) resolution for a 36-42" TV isn't that bad, if you're sitting pretty close (ie. less than 8'). You'd definitely want 1080p for something 46" and up though ;)

EDIT: Just remembered, last time I was looking around at CompUSA they had good prices and 10% off all TVs, might be worth a stop if possible.
 
Ok, so yes, I was wrong in saying that it was lag, it is really ghosting which basically means its an unwanted image that is on the screen for a very short peroid of time. Some people don't see it, some do. It is almost like a burn-in picture (if you ever experienced one).

Also, Phillips are actually pretty nice, not as expensive as the others (Sony, Samsung or Sharp) but they do come in-between the high-end HDTVs and the low-end budget HDTVs (like Vizio and Westinghouse). The ones I've personally have seen are around the mid-price range (between the samsung prices and the vizio prices) while also have specs that are comparable to mid-range tvs. I've seen contrast ratio's of about 3200:1 for 32" phillips for around $750 which is a pretty decent price. They also look pretty nice with the sleek finish. Phillips is also #6 for the top rankings for HDTVs so they aren't that bad. I personally like phillips, especially for their price.

My best advice is to go to your local B&M place (like Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, or wherever you can) and check out and see which one looks the best in your opinion, then shop online to see if you can find a better deal. But please note that the stuff you see in stores are def. not what it will look like when you bring it home, they tend to screw up their settings SO badly that it always looks terrible in stores (especially with their lighting and other effects).

Just my advice though so take it as that, advice. And if I got something wrong, then please correct me, it will help me learn. Thanks.

Also, to note: the human eye can percieve, roughly, about 800:1 (http://www.betterphoto.com/article.asp?id=50) so in reality, anything that is more is kinda going overboard. Not exactly sure if they are talking about DCR or TCR though.
 
[quote name='chex20']1080p is nice to have, but like it was previously said, won't see much difference in anything that's really under 47" (if I remember correctly) vs. 720p. Even if you were to consider 1080p, many tv's say they can do 1080p but they tend to upscale it (meaning, they aren't really "full" 1080p, which is 1920 x 1200 pixils, I know this cause my new macbook pro has full 1080p).
[/quote]

When looking at a "1080p" set, how do you know if it is true 1080p or upscaling?
 
[quote name='HeSaveDave']When looking at a "1080p" set, how do you know if it is true 1080p or upscaling?[/quote]

Well, you have to look at the resolution or ask someone about the resolution on the HDTV. If it is 1920 x 1200 pixels (or might be called resolution) then it is "true" 1080p. Upscaling is when it says it can do 1080p but isn't those pixels. Upscaling can look good on some games while others have said it looks terrible. Have fun shopping! :D
 
Well, actually both are technically correct. 1920 x 1200 and 1920 x 1080 are both full 1080p. It depends on whether you're talking about widescreen LCDs or not (most new LCD HDTVs are widescreen though and therefore you would usually, for the most part, see 1920 x 1200 LCD tvs). Hope this helps.
 
I saw a Sony Bravia 40" @ 720p for $999.99. at SEARS. Forgot to mention where I saw it >_<

I already have a 32" 720p set keep me happy for now, not buying anything short of 46" 1080p next.
 
Thanks so much for the advice, but I ended up impulse buy a tv with the brand a friend of mine got, I have no idea if i got boned ... It seems good enough to me when I'm using it but the sound doesnt seem very rich or good...i wonder if it has to do with something other than the speakers?

this is what I got...did i choose poorly? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8251385&type=product&id=1169512521340

note: i read every post and took it in the input...i hope you don't think i didnt appreciate your time.
 
[quote name='Guy Mockingdale']Thanks so much for the advice, but I ended up impulse buy a tv with the brand a friend of mine got, I have no idea if i got boned ... It seems good enough to me when I'm using it but the sound doesnt seem very rich or good...i wonder if it has to do with something other than the speakers?

this is what I got...did i choose poorly? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8251385&type=product&id=1169512521340

note: i read every post and took it in the input...i hope you don't think i didnt appreciate your time.[/quote]I haven't heard anything about Toshibas. I was going to recommend the Samsungs as well. It'd probably serve you well to have it hooked up to a sound system though.
 
People seem to enjoy their Regzas.

Honestly you could've ordered a Sharp Aquos 42" 2007 model with the improved blacks and other improvement over the '06 model still being sold in Best Buy for $1500, but that is the difference between ordering a TV online and buying in store.

Don't worry about the speaker quality, you'll want 5.1 surround eventually anyway :) I had to disable 5.1 on my PS3 & 360 when they were originally connected via HDMI.
 
So ordering online, how do you go about getting an extended warranty? NewEgg offers additional warranties with its products (I think), but how does it work with other retailers? And do you guys highly suggest online TV purchases? I'd be a bit hesitant in case there's any problems. B&M you just have to take it back.
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']So ordering online, how do you go about getting an extended warranty? NewEgg offers additional warranties with its products (I think), but how does it work with other retailers? And do you guys highly suggest online TV purchases? I'd be a bit hesitant in case there's any problems. B&M you just have to take it back.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you're basically stuck with dealing with the manufactuer. You basically have to inspect the item before you accept delivery on it, which is sort of hard cause you really have to turn it on. I've certainly never heard of any horror stories from ordering from pricegrabber referrals etc.

The corp. B&M stores are interested in bottom line profits, especially with pricey items. The simple fact that they DON'T even offer the newest 42" Sharp Aquos makes me wonder why I'd want to buy anything from them. I'll be trying to check out as many smaller stores as possible searching for good prices on very high end stuff, hopefully.
 
[quote name='chex20']Well, actually both are technically correct. 1920 x 1200 and 1920 x 1080 are both full 1080p. It depends on whether you're talking about widescreen LCDs or not (most new LCD HDTVs are widescreen though and therefore you would usually, for the most part, see 1920 x 1200 LCD tvs). Hope this helps.[/quote]

No 1920 x 1200 is a 16:10 all 1080p sets are 1920 x 1080 . I think you might be thinking about 720p were a lot of panels are 1366 X 768 not 1280 x 720 depending on if the Pixel is square or a rectangle. Given that both are 16:9 they can scale to one another properly unlike 16:9 to 16:10 were some stretching would happen or you would have black bars.
 
[quote name='freshzen']People seem to enjoy their Regzas.

Honestly you could've ordered a Sharp Aquos 42" 2007 model with the improved blacks and other improvement over the '06 model still being sold in Best Buy for $1500, but that is the difference between ordering a TV online and buying in store.

[/QUOTE]

"""

the 64 series trumps the 62 series by a ton. Price to quality it's probably one of the best values on the market right now. Especially around $1400. CC was selling it at $1299 a few weeks ago, just an insane deal.
 
Today I went into Best Buy and compared several TVs. I heard that Samsung LCDs are the pretty good for video games, especially for their low input lag. I actually brought my Gamecube into the store along with a game I am pretty familiar with, Super Smash Bros. Melee (SSBM). I feel I am familiar enough with the game to be able to notice small levels of lag, and I have no more scientific method available. Here are the TVs I tested and the notes I took for each.

1. LG LCD 37" 720p $1100 37LC7D
2. LG LCD 42" 720p $1150 42LC7D
3. Westinghouse LCD 42" 1080p $1200 TX-42H430S
4. Philips LCD 42" 720p $1300 42PFL5332D
5. Samsung LCD 40" 1080p $1800 LNT4061F

1. I only tested this TV in 480i, S-video. I noticed a bit of lag, more than I would want on a TV. I couldn't find a game mode, but I thought I heard that labeling the input as "game" would put some TVs into game mode, so I tried that, but I don't think it really helped. I would probably want a screen larger than this, but it was in a convenient place to test and I figure the lag would be the same on a larger model.

2. I tried hooking up to this TV with S-video, but it did not detect the input. I was not able to try composite.

3. This is the TV I tested most extensively. I initially tried 480i S-video on SSBM, and noticed a small bit of lag. It was more than I was looking for but not all that terrible. I then switched to 480p and the lag was almost un-noticeable. It may have been gone entirely. On this TV I tried two other games, Ikaruga and the Zelda collectors disc (to imitate an older game system's graphics). I still did not notice the lag in Ikaruga, and did more or less as well as I normally would at the game. I then tried out Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 on the collector's disc. 2D games like this always look questionable on HDTVs. When I ran the games at 480p they looked OK, about as good as I could expect. However, when I switched to 480i the games showed some strange effects. When a graphic scrolls on the screen (including the background in Zelda 2, it tends to "vibrate". I think this is due to the de-interlacing. It's hard to explain, but I think most people would notice it. It may have done a milder form of this in 480p mode; I don't remember. This is a pretty good price for a 1080p TV so I wouldn't quite count it out yet.

4. To be honest I am forgetting exactly what I thought of some of these TVs. The Philips was pretty decent, when in game mode, but not the greatest. Probably similar to the Westinghouse. This might have been another TV that did not like the S-video input, or maybe not.

5. This was my favorite. I know it's the most expensive - I was interested in the 720p Samsung above it but it was out of reach. I am assuming (hoping) that the 720p model would have no more lag than this model. This model, when in game mode, and running a 480i S-video signal, had such a small amount of lag that it was hard to notice it. It wasn't perfect, and probably wasn't as good as the 480p on the Westinghouse, but it was definitely playable. At this point, by the way, I was under the assumption that no TV would lag more running a 480p signal than it would running a 480i signal. So, this TV confirmed what I heard initially about the good quality, at least in terms of lag, of the Samsung.


Tomorrow I will try to narrow down my choices some, but I would definitely appreciate any input that people could provide.
Thanks.
 
5. Samsung LCD 40" 1080p $1800 LNT4061F

This has sold for around 1300 before, so if you want to get it I would wait until it gets to that range again.

Nice TV.


Look at the Sharp LC42D64U
Normally around 1800, but drops into the 1399 range.
 
Today I went into Circuit City and did the same thing. I'll spare all the details this time but I'll mention the two TVs that had the lowest level of lag, in my estimation.
First is another Samsung, the LNT4042H. This is a 40", 720p LCD for $1350. This performed about as good as the other Samsung from Best Buy in my 480i lag test with SSBM. This TV was 720p, and thus cheaper than the 1080p from Best Buy.
Second is a cheap TV, a Vizio VX37LHDTV10A. This is a 37", 720p LCD for $800. The lag on this was about as good as the Samsung. I couldn't really tell if it was quite as good, or better, but it was close. Unfortunately, I don't think there was an option to display in 4:3 ratio, so I couldn't reccomend it to anybody who cares about that, like I do.
Third is a Toshiba 42HL67. This is a 42", 720p LCD for $1400. I believe this was the best of all. I really could not notice any lag whatsoever in game mode, whereas in the Samsung I may have noticed a minute amount. I was really impressed.

I will probably look into buying that model or a similar model Toshiba. I reccomend that anyone else looking for a low lag TV to look into it also. I was hoping to find a better deal on the TV though. Does anybody know of any good deals on this or a similar model? I also heard that some stores will bargain the price down, including Circuit City. I will also probably go back and do some more extensive testing on the TV, in 480p and 720p modes.

Thanks.
 
Ski, the thing you want to ask (an employee. Though, not sure if they will tell you the truth or even know for that matter), if your worried about ghosting (what you referred to as lag), is "What is the response time?" For gaming, you should go for 8ms or lower. I've rarely see anything under 6ms. Sharp Aquos, for one, has 6ms response time, and I know that most Samsungs have 8ms. Anything above 8ms, is where gaming gets rough, as for ghosting.

As for any deals, I can't really thing of any places that have current deals on HDTV. They should be a ton of them shortly, mainly because of the holiday rush/season, that is if you can wait. I do know that if you ask an department manager (in this case, electronics) they can knock off 10% of the original asking price, if you give them a good reason too and your polite (meaning, they like you). Anything above that, they need permission from an assistant manager to lower the price after the 10% reduction. I've rarely seen my manager (who works with me in electronics) give a person the 10% reduction on new tvs, but it is always worth a shot.
 
I've looked into this quite a bit. The "response time" measure how fast a pixel can change color. This really has nothing to do with the lag I am talking about. It would still be nice to have a low response time, but that is not the main concern. It would be nice to know the response time on the Toshiba.

Thanks for those links! Those are really good prices. However, I am kind of in a hurry to get the TV, because there is a game coming out Tuesday that I want to play on it. Fry's is actually somewhat local to me (i.e. withing 2 hours), and since Best Buy and Circuit City both claim to match prices, do you think I could get them to match these prices? Thanks a bunch.
 
I don't mean to be annoying, but I am wondering if anybody thinks a store will price match those prices for Fry's.

I'm also interested in more opinions on those TVs. Remember, I am concerned mostly about lag when upscaling a 480i/p input, and I am wondering if anybody has any experience with this. Thanks.
 
Here's the deal. Neither Best Buy nor Circuit City would price match. Circuit City claimed that Fry's was "not local". The nearest one is about an hour away. Best Buy was going to price match, but Fry's price was lower than the amount Best Buy bought the TV for, supposedly, and they wouldn't let me. Then I decided to try Sears. Unfortunately, they did not have either of the TVs I was looking for. They had several Samsungs, but since I decided Toshiba was a little better I looked at those. They did not have the 42HL67, but they did have the 42HL167, which is just the 1080p version. Fry's sells it for $1250, and Sears was going to match the price and give me an additional 10%, for a total of $1205. I tested the TV, and it performed pretty well, but I don't think it was quite as responsive as the 720p model. It could just be my imagination, and either way it was still pretty good. It did not seem to lag at all in 480p. Then the salesman told me that if I signed up for a Sears credit card, I would get an additional $150 off. I decided to bite at that price. Unfortunately, when he tried to apply the additional $150 off, the register would not accept it. He talked to his manager and discovered that the two discounts could not be stacked. So the price would still be $1205. Now, I am sure this is a good price, but the lost deal there made me second guess my decision, and I did not get the TV. I can always go back and get it later if I decide to.
My question: do you think that price is a good enough deal to go through with?

Also, are the prices on Frys.com the same as in an actual Fry's store? I may drive to the nearest one and try to get the 780p model if so.

Thanks.
 
Man, I would have fought Best Buy on that one. :p
If you can afford it, and you think the 1080p is worth it, I'd go for that. It is a pretty decent deal. I personally fell 1080p is a pretty great selling point, but I can't bring myself to drop another 200 for it. Your decision entirely.
As for Fry's, I strongly encourage you to call them before you drive out there. Even if the price is the same, they might not have the model in stock.
 
Yeah, I can match almost anywhere at Sears within reason, but I can't match and then also take 150 off. He could have matched and gave you 18month financing on the sears card, however.

Best buy should have honored that price, I'd go to a different one if you have to.

I don't particularly think hl167 is all that nice, it just doesn't have as good of colors as similar models.
 
Im a complete noob to this stuff, Im going to be getting something around 30 inches, and Ive read that anything under 40 you cant really tell the diffrence between 1080I and 720, just wondering if anyone has any more input, as id rather save 100 or so if thats true, I will be using it mainly for 360 and watchin games in hd.
 
I'm looking into buying a LCD as well. I'll be using it for 360 and watching cable TV mostly. I'm looking for probably a 37 in. I might be willing to drop down to 32 though. I'm also looking to spend around 1000.

I'm going to be just using it in my bedroom though, do you think 40" might be too big for a bedroom? I plan on wall-mounting it also.
 
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